On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, May 15, 2021 at 12:55:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <k7tv9gdvht78mimvb...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >On Fri, 14 May 2021 18:07:43 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> >Heydt) wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <d945cf38-8986-40cb...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >>>On Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 23:44:08 UTC+1, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
>> >>>> On 9 May 2021 at 14:00:58 BST, "James Nicoll" <James Nicoll> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > Dragon's Egg (Dragon's Egg, book 1) by Robert L. Forward
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/trippin-on-starlight
>> >>>> And there's the third mention of this book I've come across this week -
>> >>>> the other two in completely independent private conversations. After at
>> >>>> least ten years of only ever seeing it on my bookshelf.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Funny how that happens.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers - Jaimie
>> >>>
>> >>>Only on the shelf? ;-)
>> >>>
>> >>>I think it was they-pronouned comedian Mae Martin
>> >>>in radio series _Mae Martin's Guide to 21st Century
>> >>>Addiction_, which came on as a repeat the other day
>> >>>(<https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09czrbc> I think),
>> >>>who talked about human personal space in general
>> >>>and teenager bedrooms in particular as collections
>> >>>of unnecessary but personally meaningful possessions -
>> >>>including books. When you have read a book, asked Mae,
>> >>>why do you hoard it? Why not throw it away after use?
>> >>
>> >>Some people are rereaders. Some aren't. It would appear that
>> >>Mx. Martin (of whomI never neard before) is one of the latter.
>> >>>
>> >>>But this must be one of the jokes, surely?
>> >>
>> >>Well, I only get rid of a book when I haven't read it for a
>> >>decade or two, and when I am *positive* that I'll never want to
>> >>read it again. The latter requirement happens a lot less often.
>>
>> >Under the severe space strictures of life in the barracks, I /used/ to
>> >do that.
>> Well, we are currently dealing with the severe space strictures
>> of a two-bedroom apartment, both "bedrooms" being stuffed with
>> books, also boxes of fabric and tubs of electronic gear.
>> >
>> >And then came to regret it, in many cases.
>> >
>> >And sometimes to purchase another copy.
>> I don't have the option of buying any more books at this time; we
>> are saving up to be able to move out of Vallejo next summer when
>> Vincent finishes middle school.
>> --
>
>A great model, perhaps long gone, were used bookshops that
>used the "paperback exchange" model. Bring in 2 grocery bags
>of MMPBs you'd already read, or didn't like well enough to finish,
>then leave with 1 bag full of "new to you" books - or the equivalent
>in "store credit." Of course, weeding your personal book inventory
>by trading them in if you also buy books in excess of the credit you
>earned.

When I discovered used book stores, after exhausting the parts of the
library I was allowed to access due to the crime of being young, I
began buying SF books in three-foot-length groups.

And returning them for credit against the /next/ three feet of books.
I didn't realize it at the time, but the owner being willing to
repurchase them all was probably a bit unusual.

I always paid, though; the credit just reduced how much.

I also learned that "book club editions" were not "hard cover books",
no matter how hard the covers were. Just another form of snobbery.

>One bookstore I worked for in the last quarter of the 20th
>Century started just before the Great Depression started. Its
>original business model was renting out new hardcovers, especially
>titles the local "carriage trade" bookstores might have carried, but
>that the public libraries didn't buy. In the 1920s, libraries in the town
>concentrated on "classic literature" and "high-minded" tomes, to the
>exclusion of anything that might be considered tawdry.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulating_library

[tawdry] or entertaining to hoi polloi. Gotta uplift hoi polloi!
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 12:13:49 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:

[snip]

> >A great model, perhaps long gone, were used bookshops that
> >used the "paperback exchange" model. Bring in 2 grocery bags
> >of MMPBs you'd already read, or didn't like well enough to finish,
> >then leave with 1 bag full of "new to you" books - or the equivalent
> >in "store credit." Of course, weeding your personal book inventory
> >by trading them in if you also buy books in excess of the credit you
> >earned. {won't work.}

> When I discovered used book stores, after exhausting the parts of the
> library I was allowed to access due to the crime of being young, I
> began buying SF books in three-foot-length groups.
>
> And returning them for credit against the /next/ three feet of books.
> I didn't realize it at the time, but the owner being willing to
> repurchase them all was probably a bit unusual.
>
> I always paid, though; the credit just reduced how much.
>

When I worked for a local comic shop, and bought mags and books
from the general public, our offer in "store credit" was always more
generous than it would be for a cash purchase. The best deal for the
customer was trading in books in high demand/great condition for
slower movers in less than pristine shape. I was on the other side of
the counter enough times, selling what I'd bought from the newsstand
or LCS to get quick cash for urgent needs. Even with the appreciation
of some issues, the bulk of the stuff went at bulk prices. Needs must,
when the `64 Mustang won't drive!

The last decade of my trade bookselling career, the shop I worked for
started selling used books after decades of not having done so. We
bought mostly hardcovers and some nice condition trade paperbacks.
We definitely didn't buy book club editions, and Condensed Books a la
The Reader's Digest were right out. We were back in the same building
that held the store's original location, though in a much larger space.
The 1927 version was a corner in a beauty shop.

During the Great Depression the owner bought entire libraries from
ordinarily well-to-do customers, who took part of their payment in
shelves-worth of inexpensive volumes. They hoped that their friends
and acquaintances wouldn't notice they'd swapped first editions and
other rarities for enough cash to pay the mortgage and utilities, plus
the filler books.

> I also learned that "book club editions" were not "hard cover books",
> no matter how hard the covers were. Just another form of snobbery.

[quote]

......while book club editions are certainly of “low monetary value,”
individual titles may hold a certain appeal for some collectors.

[/quote] - ABAA Glossary of Terms

https://www.abaa.org/glossary/entry/book-club-edition

Includes a discussion of SFBC editions.

> >One bookstore I worked for in the last quarter of the 20th
> >Century started just before the Great Depression started. Its
> >original business model was renting out new hardcovers, especially
> >titles the local "carriage trade" bookstores might have carried, but
> >that the public libraries didn't buy. In the 1920s, libraries in the town
> >concentrated on "classic literature" and "high-minded" tomes, to the
> >exclusion of anything that might be considered tawdry.
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulating_library
> [tawdry] or entertaining to hoi polloi. Gotta uplift hoi polloi!
> --

Renting out the "low" stuff because the libraries wouldn't carry it
had the effect of providing a shop some cash flow, which, in the
case of my ex-employer, allowed for the establishment of a family
firm that lasted 8 decades. It eventually became _the_ high-tone
bookstore for the area. {Didn't carry Harlequin/Mills & Boone, frex}
Ex-Presidents and Nobel winners did signings at the shops. The
wheel turns.

--
Kevin R

On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 9:09:07 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person wrote:
> When I was working, I took a week off three times a year, and it was
> easy to use that week, among other things, for hauling stuff over the
> Half-Price Books and trying to sell it to them.
>
> But once I retired, and could do that any time I liked, I found that
> "any time" never seemed to come. And the option of leaving the cleanup
> to others after I am gone is getting to be more and more attractive.

Ergh. The people who have to do the cleanup may not have the time nor
energy to do the work.

My dad had a good number of books. Not crazy numbers but a good amount.
When he ended up in a memory care unit after a fall (and not getting out),
I had to clear out his 1200 sq ft apartment over a few months while living
halfway across the US from him and with 2 18-month-olds. So it was fly in
for a long weekend, clear and clean up what I could. When he died a few
months later, then it became more imperative to just finish. I ended up
taking several pieces of furniture, 5 or 6 boxes of books and some other
things that fit in a u-pack pod. I gave up way more of his books than I
wanted to. I didn't have space as my house was already pretty full (I made
sure I knew exactly where each piece of furniture would fit) and I didn't
know what the kids might want when they were older. Half-price got, I
dunno, 8-10 boxes?, including some specialist entomology, geology, etc. books
that probably should have gone to the respective university departments.
But I just didn't have the time. A ton of other stuff went into a storage unit
and we had a big garage sale about six months later. Then what was left over
went to donation. It was stressful and difficult.

I've started to really thin my book collection. Beyond the I'll-never-read-this-again,
bye!, I'm also trying to get rid of multiple editions of the same books, 2nd tier
authors where, if I do decide to read them again, it'll be with ebooks, and
later series books, and so on.

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 20:11:07 -0700 (PDT), Melita Kennedy
<melitakennedy@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 9:09:07 AM UTC-7, Paul S Person wrote:
>> When I was working, I took a week off three times a year, and it was
>> easy to use that week, among other things, for hauling stuff over the
>> Half-Price Books and trying to sell it to them.
>>
>> But once I retired, and could do that any time I liked, I found that
>> "any time" never seemed to come. And the option of leaving the cleanup
>> to others after I am gone is getting to be more and more attractive.
>
>Ergh. The people who have to do the cleanup may not have the time nor
>energy to do the work.

Which only makes leaving it to them all the more attractive.

I have provided extensive guidance, not that I expect whoever it is to
even read it, never mind pay any attention to it.

<snippo personal details>
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 12:13:49 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2021 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kev...@my-deja.com>
>> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> >A great model, perhaps long gone, were used bookshops that
>> >used the "paperback exchange" model. Bring in 2 grocery bags
>> >of MMPBs you'd already read, or didn't like well enough to finish,
>> >then leave with 1 bag full of "new to you" books - or the equivalent
>> >in "store credit." Of course, weeding your personal book inventory
>> >by trading them in if you also buy books in excess of the credit you
>> >earned. {won't work.}
>
>> When I discovered used book stores, after exhausting the parts of the
>> library I was allowed to access due to the crime of being young, I
>> began buying SF books in three-foot-length groups.
>>
>> And returning them for credit against the /next/ three feet of books.
>> I didn't realize it at the time, but the owner being willing to
>> repurchase them all was probably a bit unusual.
>>
>> I always paid, though; the credit just reduced how much.
>>
>
>When I worked for a local comic shop, and bought mags and books
>from the general public, our offer in "store credit" was always more
>generous than it would be for a cash purchase. The best deal for the
>customer was trading in books in high demand/great condition for
>slower movers in less than pristine shape. I was on the other side of
>the counter enough times, selling what I'd bought from the newsstand
>or LCS to get quick cash for urgent needs. Even with the appreciation
>of some issues, the bulk of the stuff went at bulk prices. Needs must,
>when the `64 Mustang won't drive!
>
>The last decade of my trade bookselling career, the shop I worked for
>started selling used books after decades of not having done so. We
>bought mostly hardcovers and some nice condition trade paperbacks.
>We definitely didn't buy book club editions, and Condensed Books a la
>The Reader's Digest were right out. We were back in the same building
>that held the store's original location, though in a much larger space.
>The 1927 version was a corner in a beauty shop.
>
>During the Great Depression the owner bought entire libraries from
>ordinarily well-to-do customers, who took part of their payment in
>shelves-worth of inexpensive volumes. They hoped that their friends
>and acquaintances wouldn't notice they'd swapped first editions and
>other rarities for enough cash to pay the mortgage and utilities, plus
>the filler books.
>
>
>> I also learned that "book club editions" were not "hard cover books",
>> no matter how hard the covers were. Just another form of snobbery.
>
>[quote]
>
>.....while book club editions are certainly of “low monetary value,”
>individual titles may hold a certain appeal for some collectors.
>
>[/quote] - ABAA Glossary of Terms
>
>https://www.abaa.org/glossary/entry/book-club-edition
>
>Includes a discussion of SFBC editions.

It appears to be adopting an entirely contemporary viewpoint.

For one thing, and this may reflect when I was in the BOMC (late
70s/early 80s), their books didn't look particularly "cheap". Both
/The Times Atlas of World History/ and /Unfinished Tales of Númenor
and Middle-Earth/ look very much like "real" hardcover books, and both
have ISBNs. Indeed, /Unfinished Tales/ has a /very/ realistic binding:
being read has converted it into a bunch of "chunks", something quite
common with early "perfect" bindings. Makes me wish it had been done
by Doubleday. And I don't think books had bar-codes on their covers
back then. But earlier on they may have done something else.

The Doubleday book clubs were all the same -- the early books were
pretty much as described, although /A Treasury of Great Science
Fiction/, which is far to early to have an ISBN, does have a copyright
date and, of course, many of those came out long before ISBNs had even
been thought of, let alone bar-coded jackets.

And, yes, they /do/ look quite nice when shelved, all being the same
height. One reason they cost so little (apart from "cheap paper"
[which still managed to keep the text visible even in those books
purchased in the 50s or 60s, BTW] and using fewer of them by not
leaving as much of the page blank) was precisely because they used
their own printing plant to print them. All the same size, all typeset
the same way. This is called "economy of scale".

So they had several advantages: hard covers, uniform size, thinness,
and low cost. A tween could (with a parent's help writing the check
and enough income to pay her back for doing so) acquire a /lot/ of
books and store them in limited space.

And the low cost is enough, I suppose, to explain the low (or
nonexistent, depending on store) resale value.

But this eventually changed, by (say) the 90s, and the books began
looking a lot more like "real" books, even having the indicia of
"real" publishers. As with BOMC, they may have /been/ "real" books.

In the long run, locally-available Trade Paperbacks turned out to cost
/less/ because of the shipping charges, and had many of the same
advantages.

So, really, I suggest "proto-trade-paperback-with-hard-covers" would
be a reasonable way of undertanding Doubleday's Book Club Editiions.

<snippo>
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."