In <ti9e9d$1quaq$3@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:

>>It's way, WAY, beyond time for there to be a national ten
>>digit "help" number that would be able to reach out to whatever
>>your local PSAP would be.

>>C'mon, FEMA!

>Not a regulator. It would have to be FCC.

well, they do speak to each other...

>common pattern for reaching police and fire dispatch prior to 911. FCC
>should have reserved numbers like NNX-4343 and NNX-5656. I don't recall
>the last four digits that were in common use any more but those should
>have been reserved.

I *wish* I had kept my notes from then, but back 1988ish I
was calling for hotel reservations for my agency, and
discovered that, in place of a national "800" number,
the company had [local area code] [SAME 7 DIGIT NUMBER]
for each city. Well, a bunch of them...

They soon gave up on this but it was a fascinating bit
of, well, something.

Butgetting back to "911"...

What the hell is the protocol if you're in (for example) Denver,
on the phone with your aunt in Walla Walla, WA, and she
says to you "I feel faint" and then collapses?

How do you reach emergency services a dozen States away?

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

danny burstein wrote:

> In <ti9e9d$1quaq$3@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman"
> <ahk@chinet.com> writes:
>
>>>It's way, WAY, beyond time for there to be a national ten
>>>digit "help" number that would be able to reach out to
>>>whatever your local PSAP would be.
>
>>>C'mon, FEMA!
>
>>Not a regulator. It would have to be FCC.
>
> well, they do speak to each other...
>
>>common pattern for reaching police and fire dispatch prior
>>to 911. FCC should have reserved numbers like NNX-4343 and
>>NNX-5656. I don't recall the last four digits that were in
>>common use any more but those should have been reserved.
>
> I *wish* I had kept my notes from then, but back 1988ish I
> was calling for hotel reservations for my agency, and
> discovered that, in place of a national "800" number,
> the company had [local area code] [SAME 7 DIGIT NUMBER]
> for each city. Well, a bunch of them...
>
> They soon gave up on this but it was a fascinating bit
> of, well, something.
>
> Butgetting back to "911"...
>
> What the hell is the protocol if you're in (for example)
> Denver, on the phone with your aunt in Walla Walla, WA,
> and she says to you "I feel faint" and then collapses?
>
> How do you reach emergency services a dozen States away?
>
I actually had something like that happen when I was on
the phone with a dear friend many states away.

He suddenly stopped talking and I could get no response.

Called the police station in his town and asked them to
do a wellness check. Turned out he had fallen (he was ~90
years old at the time and had a heart condition) and had
blacked out.

The cops on the scene called the EMTs and he was taken to
the local hospital. All turned out well that time, but he
passed away last year.

Nyssa, who knows that it wasn't the first time such a thing
had happened with her friend, so knew what to do that would
get him the help he needed the fastest way possible

On 10/13/2022 10:01 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>
>>> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> . . .
>>>
>>>> I use cash when dealing in person. No reason for the other
>>>> person to get my banking data via check or credit card
>>>> number. Nor address and/or phone number (landline!)
>>>> either.
>>>
>>> Do you literally have a land line? An elderly friend
>>> didn't even realize he was forcibly converted away from
>>> his land line when an installer was doing work on the DSL
>>> circuit, but he's still paying the same high rates. I've
>>> tried to talk him into switching to VoIP but he doesn't
>>> want to change.
>>>
>>> Phone through cable isn't a land line either.
>>>
>>> A traditional land line is POTS (Public switched telephone
>>> network). There is literally a phone switch at the central
>>> office, with battery that will last for 8 hours or
>>> possibly days, so that the phone will still work in an
>>> extreme emergency as long as the lines aren't down.
>>>
>>> If you are providing the battery yourself, that'll just
>>> last a couple of hours and it won't work when the Internet
>>> is down.
>>>
>>> Just because it's not cellular doesn't mean it's an
>>> old-fashioned land line, and these days, there are some
>>> land lines that were converted to be served via the
>>> cellular network for the same high price.
>>>
>>> I have 9 SIP numbers. They are cheap. None will work in an
>>> emergency. I don't even bother maintaining a service
>>> address with any of them, the address that's supposed to
>>> be in the 911 database, yet my cell phones have service
>>> addresses, which is a joke.
>>>
>>> Now that I think about it, none of my SIP lines can be
>>> routed to 911. I should find out a 7-digit phone number,
>>> but there likely isn't a dialable one.
>>
>> Yes, it's a real twisted pair copper-carried landline.
>>
>> It keeps working even when the electric power is down for
>> days, as has been proven after some nasty hurricanes.
>>
>
> I have one of those. From Century Link. Except it doesn’t work when it’s
> dark. Or windy. Or hot. Or raining.
>
Or when a phone is connected to it....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 14:28:31 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>What do you mean "in the not-too-distant future"? As I understand it,
>that's how China works TODAY!
>
>The thing that baffles me the most here is how PayPal came to the
>conclusion, even momentarily, that they were entitled to collect a fine
>from you over something you said in some other part of your life? As far
>as I can see, they *might* have some entitlement to react if you said
>something abusive to *THEM* to the point where they might want to drop
>you as a customer, but how on earth do they reckon themselves entitled
>to a serious chunk of change for some remark made to or about a third
>party?
>
>That makes no sense at all that I can see. It would be like me visiting
>Portugal, calling some guy there a jackass to his face for trying to
>overcharge me on a cab ride that I was paying in cash, and then my bank
>declaring that it was fining me $2500 for my words. I don't see any
>justification for that whatsoever.

God help you if your name is John Smith! (Not only are there thousands
of them but one of them is the name of the star of the Man in the High
Castle!)

I mean I have both a very rare first name and very rare last name but
each of my two daughters has at least 5 people on Facebook with their
first and last name - my eldest while not a lawyer is a law school
graduate and one of the namesakes is a lawyer in NY state! (Ironically
within 20 miles of where my first ancestor we know of in America
landed 300 years ago)

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 12:34:26 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>Twitter does the same thing (without the fines, of course). They'll suspend or cancel your account for things you do or say elsewhere in your life. People have had their Twitter accounts blocked for YouTube videos they made. Ben Shapiro's account was suspended for a speech he gave at a university. J.K. Rowling was put in Twitter jail for saying a man isn't a woman in a British TV interview. Twitter believes it has the moral authority to police the entire lives of its users.

Again - how do they purport to filter against namesakes before they
ban somebody?

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 21:04:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>Someone can refuse to do business with you if you will not pay via their
>preferred method of payment. But if you are making a payment under
>contract or paying a bill, the creditor cannot refuse to accept currency.
>I don't know if they can refuse to accept coins.
>
>I have no idea if Canada has a similar law.
>
>>. . .
It used to be the law in Canada that a merchant was not required to
take more than $5 worth of pennies but Canada discontinued the penny
in 2013 and while it's still legal tender I've not seen any (except in
my drawer) in several years.

I don't believe there ever was any restriction on any other size coin.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 14:35:16 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <ti78on$1iqs2$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> >My landlord requires the rent be payed thru PayPal.
>>
>> Pay in nickels next time. Or singles. He cannot refuse currency.
>
>Sure he can. There's no legal requirement for a creditor to accept cash.
>
>https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
>
>Although many states are outlawing cash-free businesses because they
>"discriminate against the poor and the 'unbanked'". Amazon had to close
>down or modify a lot of its cashless retail stores in states like
>Pennsylvania that decreed it to be racist to have a store where you
>can't pay in cash.
>
>And during the height of the Wuhan Flu, they were scads of businesses
>around here with "no cash" policies because they were afraid the money
>was infected.
>
>My personal zenith of ridiculousness with such things was at the end of
>a meal at California Pizza Kitchen. The waiter looked at me like I was
>nuts when he brought me the bill and told me to 'just scan the QR code
>with your phone to pay' and I told him I didn't have a phone with me and
>handed him my credit card. The waiter had to call over the manager who
>said, "Sir, we only do contactless pay here." I said he should make that
>clear to people *before* they sit down and have a meal because I didn't
>know that and the only two methods of payment I had were cash and a
>credit card. He could either accept one of them or put the meal on the
>house. The guy stood there for a moment looking confused and
>uncomfortable, then said, "Well, we assume that these days everyone
>carries a smartphone. Are you sure you don't have a phone to use?" As if
>I'd somehow missed it or something and if I only checked my pockets a
>second time, one would magically turn up. In the end, he accepted the
>credit card but only after gloving up and using-- I shit you not-- a set
>of tongs to take my card from me and give it back. Like it was teeming
>with Ebola or something.
>
>That hysteria was so wildly out of control it'd have been funny if it
>hadn't destroyed so many lives.

Great story though our provincial health officer said early in the
pandemic had ever been transmitted solely by paper handled by both
parties.

No idea if the same applies to plastic (which of course is what most
credit cards are made of)

PS. I don't carry a cell phone either - I used to but got rid of it
after telemarketers got my number and started calling me. Each time if
I was in motion while driving I would pull over and after the score
was telemarketers 25 real callers 1 and my contract was expiring I
gave it up.

I figured anybody with a legitimate need to talk to me had either my
work or home numbers (or both) which was usually where I was at except
when going from one to the other. And despite being on the National Do
Not Call List I have been awoken by a robocaller on at least 3
occasions. Now I'm retired - well the phone is 18" from my keyboard.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 22:04:45 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Although many states are outlawing cash-free businesses because they
>>"discriminate against the poor and the 'unbanked'". Amazon had to close
>>down or modify a lot of its cashless retail stores in states like
>>Pennsylvania that decreed it to be racist to have a store where you
>>can't pay in cash.
>
>"Unbanked" literally decimates English.

How the heck is it racist to prefer the color green? Or in this case
to reject the color green?

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 18:43:15 -0400, Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net>
wrote:

>I object to the notion that only the "poor" don't have
>smartphones. I don't have a smartphone nor am I "unbanked."
>
>I don't have a smartphone because I see no need for one, and
>certainly wouldn't pay $$ for a device PLUS paying a monthly
>fee for a data plan.
>
>I use cash when dealing in person. No reason for the other
>person to get my banking data via check or credit card number.
>Nor address and/or phone number (landline!) either.
>
>Online, I'll use my debit card, but only with a handful
>of companies that I've been doing business with for years.
>
>No smartphone or overpriced on-going data plan needed.
>
>Nyssa, who just forked over almost $900 a couple of weeks
>ago for a new refrigerator, in cash, with no objection from
>the cashier at all

I feel the same way though I normally pay in person transactions Visa
or debit and often to e-mail transfers (which is a service nearly all
Canadian banks offer - it requires you to have a bank card but the
recipient doesn't see it nor you theirs)

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 16:45:12 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>> I had a repairman at the house a couple of years earlier. The payment
>> was made with a credit card. The repairman had to call the back office.
>> That same company sent a repairman a year or two ago and he wouldn't
>> deal with the credit card. He insisted that I had to download the
>> company's app onto a smart phone and pay that way. I refuse to download
>> apps onto the smart phone because I'm not a moron. After a lot of fuss,
>> he called his supervisor and phoned in the credit card.
>>
>> No gloving up nor tongs though.
>>
>
>Yeah, my plumber will only take checks. I can see why he doesn’t want to be
>carrying change around and why he doesn’t want to take the hit for using a
>credit card.

Some Canadian restaurants are adding a 2.4% processing fee on credit
card transactions which is what they claim is their 'interface fee' (I
retired recently but OUR credit card discount rate from our bank was
about half that and a straight 13 cents per transaction on debit
transactions)

If I were to get one of those on my restaurant bill I would calculate
the tip then deduct that fee and would have no hesitation telling them
so if asked.

On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 16:27:25 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>In the early days of 911, the wire center boundaries didn't coincide
>with the governmental unit boundaries of police and fire agencies, and
>the fire district could have been a special district with a municipal
>police department. In my area, it was somewhat commont that a small
>municipality had 1 or 2 shifts of police patrols but paid the sheriff's
>police to patrol overnight, so calls to dispatch had to get reroute.
>Also, unincorporated areas calling 911 might reach the municipal police
>dispatcher when they were in an area with sheriff's police patrols.
>
In our area the local emergency services complained they were getting
a lot of call pickups from confused seniors and that most of the
confused seniors seemed to be of Indian extraction.

Turned out that in our are international calls had to be prefaced by
011 then the country code (which ofr India is 91) and then the city
code (1 for New Delhi) and only then the 7 digit number.

However our local phone services were coded to refer ANY number dialed
starting with 911 directly to emergency services.....

(These people weren't crazy - their children who most of these folks
lived with had either forgotten to tell them calls to the old country
had to start with 011 or granny had forgotten.....

On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 05:13:25 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
<dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

>In <ti85o5$1ns00$1@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Now that I think about it, none of my SIP lines can be routed to 911. I
>>should find out a 7-digit phone number, but there likely isn't a
>>dialable one.
>
>It's way, WAY, beyond time for there to be a national ten
>digit "help" number that would be able to reach out to whatever
>your local PSAP would be.
>
>C'mon, FEMA!
>
In our area 911 is the emergency number while there are several
special purpose non-emergency 3 digit numbers. (For instance 311 is
what you dial for local government calls for service - for instance a
broken water man)

911 type service started in North America and the UK around the same
time and in the UK (and also Hong Kong as I found out) the emergency
number is 999.

In our locale, the local 911 center is in a corner office in the local
police station and takes ALL emergency calls then transfers to police,
fire, ambulance etc as needed

On 10/13/2022 5:02 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 05:13:25 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
> <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> In <ti85o5$1ns00$1@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Now that I think about it, none of my SIP lines can be routed to 911. I
>>> should find out a 7-digit phone number, but there likely isn't a
>>> dialable one.
>>
>> It's way, WAY, beyond time for there to be a national ten
>> digit "help" number that would be able to reach out to whatever
>> your local PSAP would be.
>>
>> C'mon, FEMA!
>>
> In our area 911 is the emergency number while there are several
> special purpose non-emergency 3 digit numbers. (For instance 311 is
> what you dial for local government calls for service - for instance a
> broken water man)
>
> 911 type service started in North America and the UK around the same
> time and in the UK (and also Hong Kong as I found out) the emergency
> number is 999.
>
Australia and/or NZ too.

> In our locale, the local 911 center is in a corner office in the local
> police station and takes ALL emergency calls then transfers to police,
> fire, ambulance etc as needed
>

On 10/13/2022 5:02 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 05:13:25 -0000 (UTC), danny burstein
> <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> In <ti85o5$1ns00$1@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> writes:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Now that I think about it, none of my SIP lines can be routed to 911. I
>>> should find out a 7-digit phone number, but there likely isn't a
>>> dialable one.
>>
>> It's way, WAY, beyond time for there to be a national ten
>> digit "help" number that would be able to reach out to whatever
>> your local PSAP would be.
>>
>> C'mon, FEMA!
>>
> In our area 911 is the emergency number while there are several
> special purpose non-emergency 3 digit numbers. (For instance 311 is
> what you dial for local government calls for service - for instance a
> broken water man)
>
> 911 type service started in North America and the UK around the same
> time and in the UK (and also Hong Kong as I found out) the emergency
> number is 999.
>
> In our locale, the local 911 center is in a corner office in the local
> police station and takes ALL emergency calls then transfers to police,
> fire, ambulance etc as needed

Exactly what form the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) (the
technical name for a "911 center") takes varies massively. Large
cities, wealthy counties, well funded Joint Dispatch Authorities and the
like can have custom built PSAP's that literally look like the sci-fi
command center sets you see in movies, complete with wall sized
electronic maps and the whole shebang. (BTW, in places that have those
wall maps the people manning it never use them and usually turn them
off. :D ) Other places with smaller budgets can literally have it be
one person in a converted closet. And everything in between. It
basically depends on the budget which may or may not be in line with
their actual needs. (I remember one agency was kitting out a semi
trailer as an emergency dispatch center for disasters. Don't know if
they ever actually finished it and seriously doubt they have ever had a
need to use it.)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
> danny burstein wrote:
>
>> In <ti9e9d$1quaq$3@dont-email.me> "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> writes:
>>
>>>> It's way, WAY, beyond time for there to be a national ten
>>>> digit "help" number that would be able to reach out to
>>>> whatever your local PSAP would be.
>>
>>>> C'mon, FEMA!
>>
>>> Not a regulator. It would have to be FCC.
>>
>> well, they do speak to each other...
>>
>>> common pattern for reaching police and fire dispatch prior
>>> to 911. FCC should have reserved numbers like NNX-4343 and
>>> NNX-5656. I don't recall the last four digits that were in
>>> common use any more but those should have been reserved.
>>
>> I *wish* I had kept my notes from then, but back 1988ish I
>> was calling for hotel reservations for my agency, and
>> discovered that, in place of a national "800" number,
>> the company had [local area code] [SAME 7 DIGIT NUMBER]
>> for each city. Well, a bunch of them...
>>
>> They soon gave up on this but it was a fascinating bit
>> of, well, something.
>>
>> Butgetting back to "911"...
>>
>> What the hell is the protocol if you're in (for example)
>> Denver, on the phone with your aunt in Walla Walla, WA,
>> and she says to you "I feel faint" and then collapses?
>>
>> How do you reach emergency services a dozen States away?
>>
> I actually had something like that happen when I was on
> the phone with a dear friend many states away.
>
> He suddenly stopped talking and I could get no response.
>
> Called the police station in his town and asked them to
> do a wellness check. Turned out he had fallen (he was ~90
> years old at the time and had a heart condition) and had
> blacked out.
>
> The cops on the scene called the EMTs and he was taken to
> the local hospital. All turned out well that time, but he
> passed away last year.
>
> Nyssa, who knows that it wasn't the first time such a thing
> had happened with her friend, so knew what to do that would
> get him the help he needed the fastest way possible
>
>

I’ve often wondered what the cops do on a welfare check if the place is
locked and shattered. If nobody answers the door do they kick it in?

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 10/13/2022 10:01 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>>> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>>> I use cash when dealing in person. No reason for the other
>>>>> person to get my banking data via check or credit card
>>>>> number. Nor address and/or phone number (landline!)
>>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> Do you literally have a land line? An elderly friend
>>>> didn't even realize he was forcibly converted away from
>>>> his land line when an installer was doing work on the DSL
>>>> circuit, but he's still paying the same high rates. I've
>>>> tried to talk him into switching to VoIP but he doesn't
>>>> want to change.
>>>>
>>>> Phone through cable isn't a land line either.
>>>>
>>>> A traditional land line is POTS (Public switched telephone
>>>> network). There is literally a phone switch at the central
>>>> office, with battery that will last for 8 hours or
>>>> possibly days, so that the phone will still work in an
>>>> extreme emergency as long as the lines aren't down.
>>>>
>>>> If you are providing the battery yourself, that'll just
>>>> last a couple of hours and it won't work when the Internet
>>>> is down.
>>>>
>>>> Just because it's not cellular doesn't mean it's an
>>>> old-fashioned land line, and these days, there are some
>>>> land lines that were converted to be served via the
>>>> cellular network for the same high price.
>>>>
>>>> I have 9 SIP numbers. They are cheap. None will work in an
>>>> emergency. I don't even bother maintaining a service
>>>> address with any of them, the address that's supposed to
>>>> be in the 911 database, yet my cell phones have service
>>>> addresses, which is a joke.
>>>>
>>>> Now that I think about it, none of my SIP lines can be
>>>> routed to 911. I should find out a 7-digit phone number,
>>>> but there likely isn't a dialable one.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's a real twisted pair copper-carried landline.
>>>
>>> It keeps working even when the electric power is down for
>>> days, as has been proven after some nasty hurricanes.
>>>
>>
>> I have one of those. From Century Link. Except it doesn’t work when it’s
>> dark. Or windy. Or hot. Or raining.
>>
> Or when a phone is connected to it....
>

Or not.

Century Link tries to require that you go to the box outside your house and
disconnect the phone and connect an old freestanding doesn’t need to be
plugged into the wall phone to prove to them that the trouble isn’t inside
your house.
Even though I pay a lot of money for that inside the house wiring plan.
thousands of dollars in the years I’ve been here. And never once has it
been my fault.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Oct 13, 2022 at 6:12:16 PM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> I've often wondered what the cops do on a welfare check if the place is
> locked and shattered. If nobody answers the door do they kick it in?

No, that would be illegal. They just report back to the concerned party that
there was no response at the residence. Unless there's some justification for
exigent circumstances, adults are allowed to go off somewhere without telling
their friends and neighbors without having to worry that they'll return to
find their front door busted off its frame by the police.

On 10/13/2022 8:26 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Oct 13, 2022 at 6:12:16 PM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I've often wondered what the cops do on a welfare check if the place is
>> locked and shattered. If nobody answers the door do they kick it in?
>
> No, that would be illegal. They just report back to the concerned party that
> there was no response at the residence. Unless there's some justification for
> exigent circumstances, adults are allowed to go off somewhere without telling
> their friends and neighbors without having to worry that they'll return to
> find their front door busted off its frame by the police.

"Locked and shattered"--that's funny.

On 10/13/2022 9:49 AM, Nyssa wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 12, 2022 at 4:03:49 PM PDT, "trotsky"
>>> <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 4:35 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <ti78on$1iqs2$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> My landlord requires the rent be payed thru PayPal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pay in nickels next time. Or singles. He cannot
>>>>>> refuse currency.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure he can. There's no legal requirement for a
>>>>> creditor to accept cash.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Although many states are outlawing cash-free
>>>>> businesses because they "discriminate against the poor
>>>>> and the 'unbanked'". Amazon had to close down or
>>>>> modify a lot of its cashless retail stores in states
>>>>> like Pennsylvania that decreed it to be racist to have
>>>>> a store where you can't pay in cash.
>>>>>
>>>>> And during the height of the Wuhan Flu, they were
>>>>> scads of businesses around here with "no cash"
>>>>> policies because they were afraid the money was
>>>>> infected.
>>>>>
>>>>> My personal zenith of ridiculousness with such things
>>>>> was at the end of a meal at California Pizza Kitchen.
>>>>> The waiter looked at me like I was nuts when he
>>>>> brought me the bill and told me to 'just scan the QR
>>>>> code with your phone to pay' and I told him I didn't
>>>>> have a phone with me and handed him my credit card.
>>>>> The waiter had to call over the manager who said,
>>>>> "Sir, we only do contactless pay here." I said he
>>>>> should make that clear to people *before* they sit
>>>>> down and have a meal because I didn't know that and
>>>>> the only two methods of payment I had were cash and a
>>>>> credit card. He could either accept one of them or put
>>>>> the meal on the house. The guy stood there for a
>>>>> moment looking confused and uncomfortable, then said,
>>>>> "Well, we assume that these days everyone carries a
>>>>> smartphone. Are you sure you don't have a phone to
>>>>> use?" As if I'd somehow missed it or something and if
>>>>> I only checked my pockets a second time, one would
>>>>> magically turn up. In the end, he accepted the credit
>>>>> card but only after gloving up and using-- I shit you
>>>>> not-- a set of tongs to take my card from me and give
>>>>> it back. Like it was teeming with Ebola or something.
>>>>
>>>> Sure, so you were lying about not having a phone.
>>
>>> I didn't tell them I didn't have a phone, Hutt, you
>>> bleating nematode. I said I didn't have it *with* me.
>>
>> I carry my smart phone with me. I DO NOT have it set up as
>> a payment medium and I never will.
>
> Smart decision!

Except it's total bullshit. Maybe the paranoid son of a bitch doesn't
know you can turn GPS tracking off. Obviously the Oath Keepers have
fried whatever brain he had left.

>>> For god's sake, Hep-C Lizzo, you’re so stupid it's like
>>> you were born with three umbilical cords wrapped around
>>> your neck.
>
> I'm wondering what all of these cash-less (and check-less)
> payment systems will do to the kids coming up and how they
> deal with their finances as they grow up. It's just too
> easy to wave a smartphone or no-touch credit card around
> and lose track of spending.
>
> Think about it in terms of getting your allowance when you
> were a kid and your piggy bank (or shoebox or whatever) that
> you used to save up your allowance for what you considered
> important purchases. The physical handling of the money
> made you think about it in a different way and value it
> more, didn't it?
>
> I predict that as more of this digital money takes over
> from handling cash and equivalents, there will be more
> overdrafts and bankruptcies happening down the road as
> kids and young adults get in over their heads.
>
> Nyssa, who uses cash for everyday spending; when she runs
> out of cash, she stops spending

I haven't carried cash since the Bush administration. My favorite thing
about carrying a phone is when a cashier tells me "we don't have Apple
Pay" and I whip out my Samsung and pay with it anyway. "How did you do
that?" "Samsung is the only phone that can emulate a credit card
swipe." They return a blank stare.

On 10/13/2022 10:11 AM, Nyssa wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>
>> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> . . .
>>
>>> I use cash when dealing in person. No reason for the other
>>> person to get my banking data via check or credit card
>>> number. Nor address and/or phone number (landline!)
>>> either.
>>
>> Do you literally have a land line? An elderly friend
>> didn't even realize he was forcibly converted away from
>> his land line when an installer was doing work on the DSL
>> circuit, but he's still paying the same high rates. I've
>> tried to talk him into switching to VoIP but he doesn't
>> want to change.
>>
>> Phone through cable isn't a land line either.
>>
>> A traditional land line is POTS (Public switched telephone
>> network). There is literally a phone switch at the central
>> office, with battery that will last for 8 hours or
>> possibly days, so that the phone will still work in an
>> extreme emergency as long as the lines aren't down.
>>
>> If you are providing the battery yourself, that'll just
>> last a couple of hours and it won't work when the Internet
>> is down.
>>
>> Just because it's not cellular doesn't mean it's an
>> old-fashioned land line, and these days, there are some
>> land lines that were converted to be served via the
>> cellular network for the same high price.
>>
>> I have 9 SIP numbers. They are cheap. None will work in an
>> emergency. I don't even bother maintaining a service
>> address with any of them, the address that's supposed to
>> be in the 911 database, yet my cell phones have service
>> addresses, which is a joke.
>>
>> Now that I think about it, none of my SIP lines can be
>> routed to 911. I should find out a 7-digit phone number,
>> but there likely isn't a dialable one.
>
> Yes, it's a real twisted pair copper-carried landline.
>
> It keeps working even when the electric power is down for
> days, as has been proven after some nasty hurricanes.
>
> I'm not a luddite.

Using a phone that's powered by the voltage on a phone line definitely
makes you one. Those were probably last made in the 80s.

In article <s68hkh1h1vv48lo62vptn8q1dilnedugfi@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
<lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> PS. I don't carry a cell phone either - I used to but got rid of it
> after telemarketers got my number and started calling me. Each time if
> I was in motion while driving I would pull over and after the score
> was telemarketers 25 real callers 1 and my contract was expiring I
> gave it up.

This makes no sense to me at all. First, you can set a phone to ring
only if the number calling you is in your contacts list; anyone else
can leave a message without bothering you. Second, you're under no
compulsion to answer the phone in the first place.

Caller ID is a gift from the phone gods. Use it.

> I figured anybody with a legitimate need to talk to me had either my
> work or home numbers (or both) which was usually where I was at except
> when going from one to the other. And despite being on the National Do
> Not Call List I have been awoken by a robocaller on at least 3
> occasions. Now I'm retired - well the phone is 18" from my keyboard.

I turn my ringer off when I take a nap or turn in for the night. I
don't know why people don't do that routinely.

The Do Not Call list is a joke.

On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 07:34:02 -0400, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>In article <s68hkh1h1vv48lo62vptn8q1dilnedugfi@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> PS. I don't carry a cell phone either - I used to but got rid of it
>> after telemarketers got my number and started calling me. Each time if
>> I was in motion while driving I would pull over and after the score
>> was telemarketers 25 real callers 1 and my contract was expiring I
>> gave it up.
>
>
>This makes no sense to me at all. First, you can set a phone to ring
>only if the number calling you is in your contacts list; anyone else
>can leave a message without bothering you. Second, you're under no
>compulsion to answer the phone in the first place.
>
>Caller ID is a gift from the phone gods. Use it.
>
>
>> I figured anybody with a legitimate need to talk to me had either my
>> work or home numbers (or both) which was usually where I was at except
>> when going from one to the other. And despite being on the National Do
>> Not Call List I have been awoken by a robocaller on at least 3
>> occasions. Now I'm retired - well the phone is 18" from my keyboard.
>
>
>I turn my ringer off when I take a nap or turn in for the night. I
>don't know why people don't do that routinely.
>
>The Do Not Call list is a joke.

It's useful if the FCC blocks everyone from spoofing their numbers. I
get a call every weekday from some organization supposedly benefiting
the police. Every time the call comes from a different number but it's
the same guy giving the speech. Most of the times the numbers are from
out of state but some times in state and even local. I once listened
to their entire spiel and then made a point of asking them to remove
me from their list (yes, it's a real live person giving the spiel) and
they did stop calling. For about a month.

I know that the FCC is getting tough on companies within the USA that
allow that phone number spoofing, but I haven't heard what they will
do, if anything, about the people outside the USA.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>In our area 911 is the emergency number while there are several
>special purpose non-emergency 3 digit numbers. (For instance 311 is
>what you dial for local government calls for service - for instance a
>broken water man)

>911 type service started in North America and the UK around the same
>time and in the UK (and also Hong Kong as I found out) the emergency
>number is 999.

I looked it up.

999 began in London in 1937 covering about a 12 mile radius. It says
there was a deadly house fire on Wimpole St in which 5 women were
killed. An outraged neighbor tried to report the fire to the fire
brigade but the telephone exchange held the call in queue. He wrote a
letter to the Times.

There was a techical reason 999 was chosen, due to the layout of
telephone dials and the ability to make it a coinless call at a
coin-operated telephone booth.

In the 1950s, AT&T was asked to implement 999 but came up with 911
instead. At the time, if the second digit were 0 or 1, the number would
not be treated like an area code.

>. . .

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

>Or not.

>Century Link tries to require that you go to the box outside your house
>and disconnect the phone and connect an old freestanding doesn't need
>to be plugged into the wall phone to prove to them that the trouble
>isn't inside your house.

>Even though I pay a lot of money for that inside the house wiring plan.
>thousands of dollars in the years I've been here. And never once has it
>been my fault.

Paying for an inside wire plan is insane. Given that they have refused
to send a technician to your home to perform troubleshooting, demand a
refund.

But yes, before calling them, always check that there is dial tone
outside your home.

The tools to repair telephone wire aren't that expensive.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>. . .

>Some Canadian restaurants are adding a 2.4% processing fee on credit
>card transactions which is what they claim is their 'interface fee' (I
>retired recently but OUR credit card discount rate from our bank was
>about half that and a straight 13 cents per transaction on debit
>transactions)

>If I were to get one of those on my restaurant bill I would calculate
>the tip then deduct that fee and would have no hesitation telling them
>so if asked.

Why would you do that as it doesn't address the issue?

Call the manager over to demand that the fee be removed from the bill as
it wasn't disclosed to you, then never eat there again.

There's cost to handling cash and checks too. Checks tend to have the
highest processing costs given the potential for being uncollectible,
although there are instant credit agencies available that will tell the
merchant if there's sufficient monies in the account to clear the check.

On rare occassions I've had to accept good-sized checks for payment,
I've had my own bank verify funds availability.

These surcharges are crap and if I don't like it, they lose my business.
That's the power I have as a consumer. Of course, that doesn't work with
my cable company.