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arts / alt.language.urdu.poetry / Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

SubjectAuthor
* Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Zoya
`* Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Sarwar A. Raz
 +* Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Naseer
 |`* Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Sarwar A. Raz
 | `* Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Naseer
 |  `- Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Zoya
 +- Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Zoya
 `- Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?Irfan Abid

1
Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<3969164f-cfa1-4200-907c-49b794825becn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: zbi...@yahoo.com (Zoya)
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 by: Zoya - Wed, 2 Jun 2021 16:34 UTC

Sarwar sahib,

aadaab,

You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?

Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.

Thank you.

_______Zoya

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<aa1397e5-9e37-44eb-8f9f-17721a675928n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: sarwar...@yahoo.com (Sarwar A. Raz)
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 by: Sarwar A. Raz - Wed, 2 Jun 2021 17:36 UTC

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:34:10 AM UTC-5, Zoya wrote:
> Sarwar sahib,
>
> aadaab,
>
> You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?
>
> Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.
>
> Thank you.
>
> _______Zoya
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zoya: Khush raho!
Arooz ek nihaayat pecheedah aur dilchasp maZmoon hai. shaa,i'ree kaa yeh niZaam Arabic, Persian aur Urdu meN aur doosree zabaanoN meN hai. Urdu kaa Arooz Persian aur Arabic Arooz par mabnee (based) hai. Arooz kee GhalatiyaaN Faiz, Josh Maleehabaadi, Firaq Gorakhpuri jaise logoN ke kalaam meN haiN aur yeh koyee buree baat naheeN hai kyon keh Ghalatee kisee se bhee ho saktee hai aur hotee hai. Arooz se "deviations" Ghalib aur Mir ke yahaaN bhee haiN jo unhoN ne jaan boojh kar iKhtiyaar kiye haiN aur kabhee yeh naheeN kahaa keh woh Khud SaHeeH haiN. yehee Haal i'lm-e-qaafiyah aur Harf-e-Ravee kaa hai. hamaaree nayee nasl to Arooz se hee inkaar kartee hai lekin she'r phir bhee usee ke uSool par kehtee hai! maiN Arooz kaa a'alim naheeN hooN, sirf t'aalib-e-i'lm hooN. tumhaare sawaal ke jawaab ke liye jo i'lm aur waqt chaahiye woh mere paas naheeN hai lekin maiN agle chand haftoN meN koshish karooN gaa keh kuchh likh sakooN. is ke liye thoRaa intiZaar karnaa ho gaa. jald hee mulaaqaat ho gee.

Sarwar Raz

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<3d325d31-bd62-4516-a40e-05e3b3cbb5ean@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: qures...@gmail.com (Naseer)
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 by: Naseer - Wed, 2 Jun 2021 18:13 UTC

On Wednesday, 2 June 2021 at 18:36:46 UTC+1, Sarwar A. Raz wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:34:10 AM UTC-5, Zoya wrote:
> > Sarwar sahib,
> >
> > aadaab,
> >
> > You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?
> >
> > Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > _______Zoya
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zoya: Khush raho!
> Arooz ek nihaayat pecheedah aur dilchasp maZmoon hai. shaa,i'ree kaa yeh niZaam Arabic, Persian aur Urdu meN aur doosree zabaanoN meN hai. Urdu kaa Arooz Persian aur Arabic Arooz par mabnee (based) hai. Arooz kee GhalatiyaaN Faiz, Josh Maleehabaadi, Firaq Gorakhpuri jaise logoN ke kalaam meN haiN aur yeh koyee buree baat naheeN hai kyon keh Ghalatee kisee se bhee ho saktee hai aur hotee hai. Arooz se "deviations" Ghalib aur Mir ke yahaaN bhee haiN jo unhoN ne jaan boojh kar iKhtiyaar kiye haiN aur kabhee yeh naheeN kahaa keh woh Khud SaHeeH haiN. yehee Haal i'lm-e-qaafiyah aur Harf-e-Ravee kaa hai. hamaaree nayee nasl to Arooz se hee inkaar kartee hai lekin she'r phir bhee usee ke uSool par kehtee hai! maiN Arooz kaa a'alim naheeN hooN, sirf t'aalib-e-i'lm hooN. tumhaare sawaal ke jawaab ke liye jo i'lm aur waqt chaahiye woh mere paas naheeN hai lekin maiN agle chand haftoN meN koshish karooN gaa keh kuchh likh sakooN. is ke liye thoRaa intiZaar karnaa ho gaa.. jald hee mulaaqaat ho gee.
>
> Sarwar Raz

muHtaram Sarwar SaaHib, aadaab.

kyaa yih mumkin hai kih Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Josh aur Firaq kii (ba-qaul aap ke) 3aruuzii GhalatiyaaN bhii unhoN ne "jaan buujh kar" kii hoN?

Naseer

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<f88adcb9-0786-4823-bfd0-20aa3eae91dcn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: sarwar...@yahoo.com (Sarwar A. Raz)
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 by: Sarwar A. Raz - Thu, 3 Jun 2021 00:19 UTC

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 1:13:20 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> On Wednesday, 2 June 2021 at 18:36:46 UTC+1, Sarwar A. Raz wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:34:10 AM UTC-5, Zoya wrote:
> > > Sarwar sahib,
> > >
> > > aadaab,
> > >
> > > You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?
> > >
> > > Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > _______Zoya
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Zoya: Khush raho!
> > Arooz ek nihaayat pecheedah aur dilchasp maZmoon hai. shaa,i'ree kaa yeh niZaam Arabic, Persian aur Urdu meN aur doosree zabaanoN meN hai. Urdu kaa Arooz Persian aur Arabic Arooz par mabnee (based) hai. Arooz kee GhalatiyaaN Faiz, Josh Maleehabaadi, Firaq Gorakhpuri jaise logoN ke kalaam meN haiN aur yeh koyee buree baat naheeN hai kyon keh Ghalatee kisee se bhee ho saktee hai aur hotee hai. Arooz se "deviations" Ghalib aur Mir ke yahaaN bhee haiN jo unhoN ne jaan boojh kar iKhtiyaar kiye haiN aur kabhee yeh naheeN kahaa keh woh Khud SaHeeH haiN. yehee Haal i'lm-e-qaafiyah aur Harf-e-Ravee kaa hai. hamaaree nayee nasl to Arooz se hee inkaar kartee hai lekin she'r phir bhee usee ke uSool par kehtee hai! maiN Arooz kaa a'alim naheeN hooN, sirf t'aalib-e-i'lm hooN. tumhaare sawaal ke jawaab ke liye jo i'lm aur waqt chaahiye woh mere paas naheeN hai lekin maiN agle chand haftoN meN koshish karooN gaa keh kuchh likh sakooN. is ke liye thoRaa intiZaar karnaa ho gaa. jald hee mulaaqaat ho gee.
> >
> > Sarwar Raz
> muHtaram Sarwar SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> kyaa yih mumkin hai kih Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Josh aur Firaq kii (ba-qaul aap ke) 3aruuzii GhalatiyaaN bhii unhoN ne "jaan buujh kar" kii hoN?
>
> Naseer
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naseer SaaHeb: aadaab!
shaa,i'ree meN har cheez mumkin hai. Art aur science meN yehee farq hai. Arooz kee Ghalat'ee daanistah koyee SaaHeb-e-i'lm do t'araH se kartaa hai. ek laa-i'lmee meN yaa be-Khayaalee meN. mere paas Gyan chand kaa ek maZmoon hai jo unhoN ne Firaq Gorakhpuri kee be-Aroozee par likhaa hai. Firaq SaaHeb-e-i'lm the. ho saktaa hai keh woh be-Khayaalee meN yaa nashe' kee Haalat meN aisaa kar gaye hoN. Arooz kee Ghalat'ee daanistah karnaa mushkil hai kyoN.k Arooz ek nizaam hai jis kee Hudood meN she'r goyee kee jaattee hai. is nizaam kaa shaa,i'r paaband hotaa hai aur is se gurez aasaan naheeN Jigar Muradabadi ko a'zeem shaa,i'r maanaa jaataa hai. un ke deewaan meN Ghalat'iyaaN haiN. jaa bajaa unhoN ne apnee GhalatiyoN par Haashiye (notes) likh kar apnee Ghalat'ee kaa jawaaz pesh kiyaa hai. Urdu ke mash,hoor naqqaad Shamsur Rahman Faruqui (marHoom) ne Urdu Arooz par saKht tanqeed kee hai lekin jab unhoN ne Khud shaa,i're kee to us ke Hudood meN har uSool kee paabandee ke saath kee jab.k woh kuchh uSool se muttafiq naheeN the. Usool se inHiraaf meN mushkil yeh hai keh aap ko nayaa uSool banaanaa hotaa hai aur us ko saabit karnaa paRtaa hai. aur yeh kaam aasaan naheeN hai!! yehee wajh hai keh har shaa,i'r Arooz kee paabandee kartaa hai. aisaa nah kare to nayaa nizaam kahaaN se laaye gaa? puraanaa nizaam hee woh samajh le to baRee baat hai. ab aap ko sawaal poochhne aur tanqeed kaa shauq hai (jo achhee baateN haiN) lekin Arooz kaa koyee shauq naheeN! to kaam mushkil ho jaataa hai kyoN..k maiN baat agar Arooz kee hai to Arooz kee zabaan meN karooN gaa. aur woh aap ke sar ke oopar se guzar saktee hai. yeh manzil bohat sakht hai aur hameN is se guzarnaa hai.
doosree baat aap ne aise asaatizah kee fehrist ke baare meN kahee hai jo "sanad" haiN. maiN fehristoN se ghabraataa hooN. is waqt itnaa keh saktaa hooN keh maiN kisee cheez kee sanad naheeN hooN! GhalatiyaaN bohat kartaa hooN lekin nah to daanistah aur nah hee beKhayaalee meN!
chalte chalte ek baat aur a'rZ kar dooN. aap ne apne Khat meN likhaa hai keh Faiz, Josh , Firaq kee Aroozee GhalatiyaaN "(baqaul aap ke )". aap Arooz se waaqif naheeN haiN warnah misaaleN detaa. Faiz kaa ek miSra' dekh leN aur bataayeN keh aap kee raaye meN yeh Aroozee t'aur par kaisaa hai:

deewaar-e-shab aur a'ks-e-ruKh-e-yaar saamne

jawaab kaa muntazir
Raz

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<f684b61a-b9aa-4506-a9cb-c73642e1b052n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: zbi...@yahoo.com (Zoya)
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 by: Zoya - Thu, 3 Jun 2021 02:23 UTC

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 12:36:46 PM UTC-5, Sarwar A. Raz wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:34:10 AM UTC-5, Zoya wrote:
> > Sarwar sahib,
> >
> > aadaab,
> >
> > You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?
> >
> > Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > _______Zoya
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zoya: Khush raho!
> Arooz ek nihaayat pecheedah aur dilchasp maZmoon hai. shaa,i'ree kaa yeh niZaam Arabic, Persian aur Urdu meN aur doosree zabaanoN meN hai. Urdu kaa Arooz Persian aur Arabic Arooz par mabnee (based) hai. Arooz kee GhalatiyaaN Faiz, Josh Maleehabaadi, Firaq Gorakhpuri jaise logoN ke kalaam meN haiN aur yeh koyee buree baat naheeN hai kyon keh Ghalatee kisee se bhee ho saktee hai aur hotee hai. Arooz se "deviations" Ghalib aur Mir ke yahaaN bhee haiN jo unhoN ne jaan boojh kar iKhtiyaar kiye haiN aur kabhee yeh naheeN kahaa keh woh Khud SaHeeH haiN. yehee Haal i'lm-e-qaafiyah aur Harf-e-Ravee kaa hai. hamaaree nayee nasl to Arooz se hee inkaar kartee hai lekin she'r phir bhee usee ke uSool par kehtee hai! maiN Arooz kaa a'alim naheeN hooN, sirf t'aalib-e-i'lm hooN. tumhaare sawaal ke jawaab ke liye jo i'lm aur waqt chaahiye woh mere paas naheeN hai lekin maiN agle chand haftoN meN koshish karooN gaa keh kuchh likh sakooN. is ke liye thoRaa intiZaar karnaa ho gaa.. jald hee mulaaqaat ho gee.
>
> Sarwar Raz

Sarwar sahib,

aadaab,

aap bilkul sahiiH farmaa rahaa haiN, jab se maiN ne Arooz ke baare meN thoRaa bahut siikhna shuruu kiyaa hai, mujhe ehsaas ho rahaa hai k yeh kitnaa pechiida mazmuun hai. aur dilchasp bhii. :)

The more I try to learn the subtleties of this art, the more I realize how little I know. Irfan sahib's advice, along with RK sahib constantly holding my hand all the time and guiding me patiently has helped tremendously.

I am in no rush Sarwar sahib, I will gladly wait for your future posts on this topic. I am just grateful that you are back in the forum, and I know how precious your time and effort is these days.

Please take good care of yourself and try to save your energy,

Best regards,

_______Zoya

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<8f2ca4bc-09da-4fec-8c75-95ec5516162an@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: qures...@gmail.com (Naseer)
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 by: Naseer - Thu, 3 Jun 2021 19:49 UTC

On Thursday, 3 June 2021 at 01:19:38 UTC+1, Sarwar A. Raz wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 1:13:20 PM UTC-5, Naseer wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 2 June 2021 at 18:36:46 UTC+1, Sarwar A. Raz wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:34:10 AM UTC-5, Zoya wrote:
> > > > Sarwar sahib,
> > > >
> > > > aadaab,
> > > >
> > > > You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?
> > > >
> > > > Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > _______Zoya
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Zoya: Khush raho!
> > > Arooz ek nihaayat pecheedah aur dilchasp maZmoon hai. shaa,i'ree kaa yeh niZaam Arabic, Persian aur Urdu meN aur doosree zabaanoN meN hai. Urdu kaa Arooz Persian aur Arabic Arooz par mabnee (based) hai. Arooz kee GhalatiyaaN Faiz, Josh Maleehabaadi, Firaq Gorakhpuri jaise logoN ke kalaam meN haiN aur yeh koyee buree baat naheeN hai kyon keh Ghalatee kisee se bhee ho saktee hai aur hotee hai. Arooz se "deviations" Ghalib aur Mir ke yahaaN bhee haiN jo unhoN ne jaan boojh kar iKhtiyaar kiye haiN aur kabhee yeh naheeN kahaa keh woh Khud SaHeeH haiN. yehee Haal i'lm-e-qaafiyah aur Harf-e-Ravee kaa hai. hamaaree nayee nasl to Arooz se hee inkaar kartee hai lekin she'r phir bhee usee ke uSool par kehtee hai! maiN Arooz kaa a'alim naheeN hooN, sirf t'aalib-e-i'lm hooN. tumhaare sawaal ke jawaab ke liye jo i'lm aur waqt chaahiye woh mere paas naheeN hai lekin maiN agle chand haftoN meN koshish karooN gaa keh kuchh likh sakooN. is ke liye thoRaa intiZaar karnaa ho gaa. jald hee mulaaqaat ho gee.
> > >
> > > Sarwar Raz
> > muHtaram Sarwar SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > kyaa yih mumkin hai kih Faiz Ahmed Faiz, Josh aur Firaq kii (ba-qaul aap ke) 3aruuzii GhalatiyaaN bhii unhoN ne "jaan buujh kar" kii hoN?
> >
> > Naseer
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Naseer SaaHeb: aadaab!
> shaa,i'ree meN har cheez mumkin hai. Art aur science meN yehee farq hai. Arooz kee Ghalat'ee daanistah koyee SaaHeb-e-i'lm do t'araH se kartaa hai. ek laa-i'lmee meN yaa be-Khayaalee meN. mere paas Gyan chand kaa ek maZmoon hai jo unhoN ne Firaq Gorakhpuri kee be-Aroozee par likhaa hai. Firaq SaaHeb-e-i'lm the. ho saktaa hai keh woh be-Khayaalee meN yaa nashe' kee Haalat meN aisaa kar gaye hoN. Arooz kee Ghalat'ee daanistah karnaa mushkil hai kyoN.k Arooz ek nizaam hai jis kee Hudood meN she'r goyee kee jaattee hai. is nizaam kaa shaa,i'r paaband hotaa hai aur is se gurez aasaan naheeN Jigar Muradabadi ko a'zeem shaa,i'r maanaa jaataa hai. un ke deewaan meN Ghalat'iyaaN haiN. jaa bajaa unhoN ne apnee GhalatiyoN par Haashiye (notes) likh kar apnee Ghalat'ee kaa jawaaz pesh kiyaa hai. Urdu ke mash,hoor naqqaad Shamsur Rahman Faruqui (marHoom) ne Urdu Arooz par saKht tanqeed kee hai lekin jab unhoN ne Khud shaa,i're kee to us ke Hudood meN har uSool kee paabandee ke saath kee jab.k woh kuchh uSool se muttafiq naheeN the. Usool se inHiraaf meN mushkil yeh hai keh aap ko nayaa uSool banaanaa hotaa hai aur us ko saabit karnaa paRtaa hai. aur yeh kaam aasaan naheeN hai!! yehee wajh hai keh har shaa,i'r Arooz kee paabandee kartaa hai. aisaa nah kare to nayaa nizaam kahaaN se laaye gaa? puraanaa nizaam hee woh samajh le to baRee baat hai. ab aap ko sawaal poochhne aur tanqeed kaa shauq hai (jo achhee baateN haiN) lekin Arooz kaa koyee shauq naheeN! to kaam mushkil ho jaataa hai kyoN..k maiN baat agar Arooz kee hai to Arooz kee zabaan meN karooN gaa. aur woh aap ke sar ke oopar se guzar saktee hai. yeh manzil bohat sakht hai aur hameN is se guzarnaa hai.
> doosree baat aap ne aise asaatizah kee fehrist ke baare meN kahee hai jo "sanad" haiN. maiN fehristoN se ghabraataa hooN. is waqt itnaa keh saktaa hooN keh maiN kisee cheez kee sanad naheeN hooN! GhalatiyaaN bohat kartaa hooN lekin nah to daanistah aur nah hee beKhayaalee meN!
> chalte chalte ek baat aur a'rZ kar dooN. aap ne apne Khat meN likhaa hai keh Faiz, Josh , Firaq kee Aroozee GhalatiyaaN "(baqaul aap ke )". aap Arooz se waaqif naheeN haiN warnah misaaleN detaa. Faiz kaa ek miSra' dekh leN aur bataayeN keh aap kee raaye meN yeh Aroozee t'aur par kaisaa hai:
>
> deewaar-e-shab aur a'ks-e-ruKh-e-yaar saamne
>
> jawaab kaa muntazir
> Raz

Raz SaaHib tasliimaat.

aaN-jahaanii Professor Gyan Chand Rai kaa maqaalah merii nazar se bhii guzraa hai aur is kaa zikr is maHfil meN aap kii tashriif-aavarii se qabl ho chukaa hai. agar aap pasand farmaa'eN to is laRii jaanib rujuu3 kiijiye gaa.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/P9JsKm1yM54/m/MSfnz_IRAQAJ (baRe shaa3iroN kii 3aruuzii GhalatiyaaN)

ek baat merii samajh meN nahiiN aa'ii. aap farmaa rahe haiN kih, "Arooz kee Ghalat'ee daanistah koyee SaaHeb-e-i'lm do t'araH se kartaa hai. ek laa-i'lmee meN yaa be-Khayaalee meN". agar ham "daanistah" ke ma3nii "jaante hu'e" leN to "laa-3ilmii" kii tarkiib yaqiin-an "ignorance" ke ma3ne rakhtii hai aur "be-xayaalii" inattentively/carelessly ke mutaraadif ho gii. mujhe yahaaN kuchh tazaad saa lag rahaa hai. agar Firaq Goralhpuri ne ko'ii shi3r nashe kii Haalat meN kahaa hai jise 3aruuzii liHaaz se naa-mauzuuN samjhaa jaataa hai, to savaal yih uThtaa jai kih unhoN ne mukammal hosh-o-havaas kii Haalat meN bhii kabhii nah kabhii us shi3r ko dekhaa ho gaa. aur agar aisaa ho saktaa hai to phir use mauzuuN kar diyaa ho gaa yaa kar diyaa jaa saktaa thaa.

Jigar Muradabadi kaa mujhe 3ilm hai kih jahaaN jahaaN unhoN ne jiddat-tiraazii kii hai vahaaN vahaaN Havaashii likhe haiN. is binaa par ham yih nahiiN kah sakte kih un se 3aruuzii GhalatiyaaN sar-zad hu'ii haiN balkih vuh, aap ke alfaaz meN, maHz un kii "deviations" thiiN.

3ilm-i-3aruuz kisii aasmaanii kitaab meN naazil nahiiH hu'aa kih jis meN radd-o-badal nahiiN kiyaa jaa saktaa. mumkin hai kih aa'indah nasleN aise shaa3ir paidaa kareN jo apne kalaam meN ixtiraa3eN aur jiddateN paidaa kareN jo qubuul-i-3aam ho jaa'eN. zaahir hai is ke liye Shamsur Rahman Faruqi marHuum se baRaa shaa3ir ban_naa ho gaa.

mujhe fi_lHaal 3aruuzii masaa'il se dil-chaspii nahiiN lekin kaun jaane aa'indah ho jaa'e! lekin aap bilaa-jhijak 3aruuz se munsalik zabaan isti3maal karte rahiye. agar ko'ii baat mere sar ke uupar se guzar bhii jaa'e to maiN us ko samajhne kii puurii koshish karuuN gaa!;-)

Raz SaaHib, maiN ne aap se mustanad shaa3iroN kii fahrist kaa taqaazaa bi_lkul nahiiN kiyaa. faqat merii yih guzaarish thii kih aap do chaar mustand shu3araa' kaa naam leN taa kih patah chale kih shaa3ir aur diigar daanishvar kin shaa3iroN ko mustanad maante haiN. bas itnaa hii.

Faiz, Josh , Firaq kee Aroozee GhalatiyaaN (baqaul aap ke)... maiN ne is liye likhaa hai kih maiN to 3aruuz jaantaa hii nahiiN. maiN kaise kah saktaa huuN kih in Hazaraat ne GhalatiyaaN kii haiN. aap ne farmaayaa kih in be-chaaroN se kotaahiyaaN hu'ii haiN aur maiN ne aisaa paRhaa bhii hai lekin maujuudah pas-manzar meN ishaarah aap kii taraf hii lauTtaa hai:-)

"aap Arooz se waaqif naheeN haiN warnah misaaleN detaa. Faiz kaa ek miSra' dekh leN aur bataayeN keh aap kee raaye meN yeh Aroozee t'aur par kaisaa hai:"
> deewaar-e-shab aur a'ks-e-ruKh-e-yaar saamne

aap merii baat maan bhii rahe haiN kih maiN 3aruuz se vaaqif nahiiN huuN aur is ke baa-vujuud aap Faiz ke shi3r par 3aruuzii tabsirah talab kar rahe haiN!:-)

mere xayaal meN shi3r mauzuuN hai. عکس ko اکس paRh kar ise "aur" kii "re" meN zamm kar diyaa jaa'e. phir shi3r ko yuuN paRhaa jaa'e..

diivaar-i-shab auraks-i-rux-i-yaar saamne

Sarwar SaaHib aap ALUP meN tashriif laa'e haiN, yih ham sab ke liye masarrat kaa maqaam hai. aap, Raj Kumar SaaHib, Irfan SaaHib aur Afzal SaaHib jaise daanish-varoN se siikhne kaa mauqa3 miltaa rahe gaa. inshaa' Allah.

Naseer

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<a2ab8b5d-7196-4cfb-a085-b7ec731f72d6n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: zbi...@yahoo.com (Zoya)
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 by: Zoya - Thu, 3 Jun 2021 22:32 UTC

Nagesh sahib,

You bailed out buddy, but will you please at least look at my taqtii' attempt to see if you agree with me? It is always a lot more fun when we cross check our answers.

RK sahib/Irfan sahib,

I am eagerly waiting for your responses. If I did well, the credit is yours, if I missed something basic, the blame goes to me. I believe Sarwar sahib is also curious about how well the Arooz Fort has been guarded in his absence.

Sarwar sahib,

Maybe you too are waiting for some input from the other two in house experts. When will I get my grade? I know in your book I have always been A+, but still. :-)

Thank you all,

_______Zoya

Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?

<04d80fac-67c7-4eee-bb95-1f56074dd311n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Arooz question for Sarwar sahib: Harf-e-Ravee?
From: irfanal...@gmail.com (Irfan Abid)
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 by: Irfan Abid - Sat, 5 Jun 2021 04:10 UTC

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 1:36:46 PM UTC-4, Sarwar A. Raz wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 11:34:10 AM UTC-5, Zoya wrote:
> > Sarwar sahib,
> >
> > aadaab,
> >
> > You recently mentioned 'Harf-e-Ravee' in the context of 'i'lm-e-qaafiyah' in another thread. I am very interested in learning more about this, I don't think I have heard the term previously. Will you please provide a short lesson on this topic for those of us really curious about the subtleties of the craft?
> >
> > Whenever you get some free time, no rush, I'll be waiting.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > _______Zoya
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Zoya: Khush raho!
> Arooz ek nihaayat pecheedah aur dilchasp maZmoon hai. shaa,i'ree kaa yeh niZaam Arabic, Persian aur Urdu meN aur doosree zabaanoN meN hai. Urdu kaa Arooz Persian aur Arabic Arooz par mabnee (based) hai. Arooz kee GhalatiyaaN Faiz, Josh Maleehabaadi, Firaq Gorakhpuri jaise logoN ke kalaam meN haiN aur yeh koyee buree baat naheeN hai kyon keh Ghalatee kisee se bhee ho saktee hai aur hotee hai. Arooz se "deviations" Ghalib aur Mir ke yahaaN bhee haiN jo unhoN ne jaan boojh kar iKhtiyaar kiye haiN aur kabhee yeh naheeN kahaa keh woh Khud SaHeeH haiN. yehee Haal i'lm-e-qaafiyah aur Harf-e-Ravee kaa hai. hamaaree nayee nasl to Arooz se hee inkaar kartee hai lekin she'r phir bhee usee ke uSool par kehtee hai! maiN Arooz kaa a'alim naheeN hooN, sirf t'aalib-e-i'lm hooN. tumhaare sawaal ke jawaab ke liye jo i'lm aur waqt chaahiye woh mere paas naheeN hai lekin maiN agle chand haftoN meN koshish karooN gaa keh kuchh likh sakooN. is ke liye thoRaa intiZaar karnaa ho gaa.. jald hee mulaaqaat ho gee.
>
> Sarwar Raz
>

muhtaram Sarwar sb, aadaab arz hai!

aap ne harf-e-ravee kaa zikr ALUP meN apne silsile ba-unvaan-e-"nikaat-e-suKhan" kii saatviiN qist meN kiyaa thaa, jis kaa link haazir hai: https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/N2Vkkf3hXaI/m/OxdvvyZIKiEJ is se qabl ki aap az-sar-e-nau is mauzuu'a par qalam (yaa keyboard) uThaayeN, maiN ne sochaa aap kii tavajjuh is jaanib dilaa duuN taaki aap kii kuchh mashaqqat bach jaaye. :)

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

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