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arts / rec.arts.drwho / Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe Last Doctor
+- [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyAndy Leighton
+* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe True Doctor
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| `- [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherenBlueshirt
+* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe Last Doctor
|`* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe True Doctor
| +- [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyDaniel65
| `* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe Coca Cola Kid
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+* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe Last Doctor
|+- [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyThe True Doctor
|`- [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherenBlueshirt
+- [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherenJohn Hall
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+* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriatelyDaniel65
|+* [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherenBlueshirt
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[Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

<tj5rfn$1loal$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mik...@xenocyte.com (The Last Doctor)
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Subject: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:04:24 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: The Last Doctor - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:04 UTC

Well that was a roller coaster. To call it one of the best episodes Chris
Chibnall has put together is to damn it with faint praise, but it is.

90 minutes wasn’t enough to do justice to the characters, and the whole
thing was overstuffed and piled heavily with fanwank. Which were the best
parts, frankly.

And it wasn’t necessary for it to be so overloaded. The first sequence was
there just to say goodbye to Dan (even though we would see him again later
in the companion coda) and to misdirect us into thinking perhaps the
Timeless Child was being kidnapped, and that huge aching knot of unresolved
story would move forward.

But no. There wasn’t one mention of the Timeless Child, the Division or the
effects of the Flux in the whole episode, and the only shadows it cast were
(1) to have Jo Martin appear as a holographic distraction. Paul McGann
could have done that bit, or David Bradley - and (2) to bring Vinder back
for an extended cameo. And his only purpose was to shoot the Master-Doctor
because apparently wounding the Master would have been too hard for
weapons-trained Yaz (WHEN?) even though he’d just effectively destroyed the
love of her life.

So there’s at least 10 minutes there that could have been removed or
altered easily to create space to do more than leap from incident to
incident, but sadly that seems to have become Chibnall’s trademark on his
“spectacular” episodes - keeping so many plates spinning that we’re
supposed to be hypnotised by the spinning itself, and never examine the
patterns on the plates or what happens when they fall off and smash.

So on to the bad parts - and here it’s just, simply, the absurd kitchen
sink “plot” that was supposed to hold the episode together. “How can I
one-up the past?” thought Chibs. “I know - the Master, the Daleks and the
Cybermen all working together!” I suppose we should be grateful that he had
just used up all his best ideas for the Weeping Angels in Flux, or no doubt
they’d have been here too.

And it just didn’t work. Why were the Daleks even involved? What was their
reward for destabilising the Earth’s seismological balance, or for helping
the Cybermen (who they despised and belittled, last time they met) to
expand their race?

Why did the Cybermen need an all powerful Death Star to cyberise humanity?
What’s wrong with good old fashioned retail and wholesale conversion?

Why did the Master need to clone and bring back Ashad? Just to replay his
greatest hits? And what was with the throwaway line about absorbing the
Cyberium? Shouldn’t he have been subverted like the Eleventh Doctor in
“Nightmare in Sliver?” (Needing the Doctor’s help to escape from that fate
could have been a better plot!)

The less said about the Cybermasters the better, but we can hope that they
at least were laid to rest.

Why bother invading UNIT, being captured by UNIT, and smuggling in a
Genesis Ark full of Cybermen in order just to escape from UNIT?

Why conduct a two-pronged assault on Earth across two time periods,
converting all humans in 1916 and also wiping out humanity in 2022?
Wouldn’t the first negate the need for the second? Why impersonate
Rasputin?

“Because the Master is mad” seems to be the only answer to all of this.

(And so that Boney M would get airplay. Kudos to the director, by the way,
who managed somehow to convey that, when faced with the Master
Cossack-dancing to “Rasputin”, two expressionless metal monsters managed to
turn to each other and say (without words) “what the fuck?”)

Of course, the Master’s plans are never really about what they would appear
to be. They’re always and only about the Master’s obsession with the
Doctor. And here that comes to its ultimate expression, where the Master
becomes the Doctor, in order to destroy the Doctor.

(Hang on - even with forced regeneration, wouldn’t we just have a Doctor
with the Master’s face? What we get instead is a Master calling himself the
Doctor - something he could have done without involving the actual Doctor
at all!) (And wouldn’t that - the Doctor having to clear their tarnished
name from being associated with a series of atrocities - ALSO have made a
better story?)

So now - moving forward to the good bits. A lot of which were, indeed, the
fanwank. Goodness knows what young fans who have never watched the classic
show felt about all these apparently random old fogeys being wheeled out,
though.

Tegan and Ace got proper parts and were well used. The conceit of the
hologram Doctor worked well, especially - and joyfully - when their
hologram was the Fifth or Seventh Doctor. The return of Graham was welcome
if a bit random - and the psychic paper was put to good use! And I would so
love it if Ace and Graham became an “item” …

That magical landscape sequence - oh boy. Five past classic Doctors. Bravo!
I assume Tom Baker was too unwell - he looked very frail indeed in recent
photos.

The Companions Anonymous coda - so lovely to see William Russell, Katy
Manning and Bonnie Langford (odd that though in terms of TV continuity -
she was last seen heading off into space to live a cosmic Only Fools and
Horses life with Sabalom Glitz - another loose end never to be tied up, no
doubt).

Anneke Wills is, I think, the only classic companion missing who is still
alive and whose character returned home to “our” time.

Would have been nice to see Freema Agyeman as well, as the only companion
of Doctors 9-12 to survive with memories intact and returned to their
contemporary home. But she’s a busy woman, these days.

The Master-Doctor’s kaleidoscopic costume - 4th Doctor scarf, 7th Doctor
jumper, 2nd Doctor trousers, 5th Doctor celery stick, 13th Doctor coat ….

A gentle pre-regeneration with affectionate reflection, a loving farewell
to both Yaz and this Doctor - and no chaotic explosions or moments of doom
as after effects.

And that fascinating reveal of David Tennant as the fourteenth Doctor,
complete with change of outfit. Change of outfit? What? What? What?

Overall it was a mess, but a highly enjoyable and entertaining mess. Not a
bad send off for Jodie, and so many, many callbacks to the past of the
show.

On balance, despite an absolutely terrible, threadbare, nonsensical plot
line - 8/10 for the characters, for the love, and for the fun.

--
There are some corners of the universe
which have bred the most terrible things.
Things which act against everything we believe in.

They must be /fought/.

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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From: and...@azaal.plus.com (Andy Leighton)
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: Andy Leighton - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 12:52 UTC

On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:04:24 -0000 (UTC),
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Why did the Cybermen need an all powerful Death Star to cyberise humanity?
> What’s wrong with good old fashioned retail and wholesale conversion?

Oh I dunno - converting them all in one go seems to be a far more
efficient approach.

> Why did the Master need to clone and bring back Ashad? Just to replay his
> greatest hits? And what was with the throwaway line about absorbing the
> Cyberium? Shouldn’t he have been subverted like the Eleventh Doctor in
> “Nightmare in Sliver?”

I guess the Master probably thought he could control it, that he had put
safeguards in place. Over-confidence is pretty much a character trait
and always has been.

> (Needing the Doctor’s help to escape from that fate
> could have been a better plot!)

Yep the reversal at the end of the story where the Master has to get the
Doctor to help him out after he has bitten off more than he can chew is
a plot-device I miss.

> Why impersonate Rasputin?
>
> “Because the Master is mad” seems to be the only answer to all of this.

One could ask the same question for many of the disguises of the Master.
Especially in the Ainley era.

> (And so that Boney M would get airplay. Kudos to the director, by the way,
> who managed somehow to convey that, when faced with the Master
> Cossack-dancing to “Rasputin”, two expressionless metal monsters managed to
> turn to each other and say (without words) “what the fuck?”)

Well I guess that the love of dancing to pop comes from Simm era.

> Of course, the Master’s plans are never really about what they would appear
> to be. They’re always and only about the Master’s obsession with the
> Doctor. And here that comes to its ultimate expression, where the Master
> becomes the Doctor, in order to destroy the Doctor.
>
> (Hang on - even with forced regeneration, wouldn’t we just have a Doctor
> with the Master’s face? What we get instead is a Master calling himself the
> Doctor - something he could have done without involving the actual Doctor
> at all!)

Yeah that part didn't really work. The idea I think is that the Master
fully believes there is something special about the Doctor (whether that
is the Timeless Child story, or the Other, or something else) and so
thinks that a forced regeneration into his current form (and with some kind
of mind transferral) would be a good thing as he could get that special
something (infinite regens for one). But there was so little exposition
that what we saw on screen didn't really make sense.

> So now - moving forward to the good bits. A lot of which were, indeed, the
> fanwank. Goodness knows what young fans who have never watched the classic
> show felt about all these apparently random old fogeys being wheeled out,
> though.

Although I guess as a celebration of 100 years of BBC it is kinda
appropriate to wheel out some old faces.

> A gentle pre-regeneration with affectionate reflection, a loving farewell
> to both Yaz and this Doctor - and no chaotic explosions or moments of doom
> as after effects.

Yep I know a lot of people have said that this Doctor's end was a bit
anti-climatic but so was falling off a telescope. At least a glancing
blow from a moon-destroying energy beam is enough to require regeneration
but allows a decent goodbye.

> And that fascinating reveal of David Tennant as the fourteenth Doctor,
> complete with change of outfit. Change of outfit? What? What? What?

Yep the change of outfit is the real issue here. That is definitely
not the custom since the first regeneration (and I think we can overlook
that). So I think RTD is being pretty devious. Real regeneration or
some sort of fake-out I have yet to make a firm decision on but sort
of more in the latter camp.

> Overall it was a mess, but a highly enjoyable and entertaining mess.

Yep I would agree with that.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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 by: The True Doctor - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 12:52 UTC

On 24/10/2022 13:08, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:04:26 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
>> Well that was a roller coaster. To call it one of the best episodes Chris
>> Chibnall has put together is to damn it with faint praise, but it is.
>>

>>
>> That magical landscape sequence - oh boy. Five past classic Doctors. Bravo!
>> I assume Tom Baker was too unwell - he looked very frail indeed in recent
>> photos.
>
> Are you expecting that we will soon see a "Tom Baker RIP" post in this group?

https://www.irishmirror.ie/tv/doctor-who-producer-reveals-tom-28311251

<<Showrunner Chris Chibnall explained the actor [Tom Baker], now 88, was
unable to take part. He stressed: “We asked Tom, but sadly he could not
do it. He was not available. Such a shame.”>>

That doesn't sound like ill health to me. It sounds like a clear point
black refusal to appear. "He was not available. Such a shame."

Such a shame, not sorry that he's been unwell or he's so frail these
days. Chibnall is saying Tom Baker should feel ashamed for not taking part.

Well he's taken part in Big Finish stories with all the other actors,
except maybe for Bradley including working directly with Paul McGann and
Colin Baker, and he's friends with Sylvester McCoy, so unless he has
something against Peter Davison the only reason he didn't want to take
part, it's not like he's stopped doing audio's for Big Finish either, is
he doesn't want to be associated with Chibnall and Whittaker's failure.

--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." -William Shatner

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: The Last Doctor - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:00 UTC

tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbrueni@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:04:26 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:

>
> We did see the Master-Doctor tell an alien probe that the Doctor had
> caused a war between two close planets! We will probably see David
> Tennent trying to clear the Doctor's name during one of his specials in the next year.

No Tim, we won’t. It’s over with, never to be mentioned again.

> I assume that the Master wanted to control the Doctor's body so that the
> Doctor would be unable to counter act the Master's defamation program!

Um, there are thirty or more previous Doctors plus an unlimited number of
future Doctors who could do that.

>> That magical landscape sequence - oh boy. Five past classic Doctors. Bravo!
>> I assume Tom Baker was too unwell - he looked very frail indeed in recent
>> photos.
>
> Are you expecting that we will soon see a "Tom Baker RIP" post in this group?

Sadly, yes. I’d be pleased to be wrong, but I do know that Big Finish
banked about four years of audio stories with him not too long ago - while
they still could.

Take a look at this recent picture and make your own mind up.

https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2022/10/12/demons-quest-starring-tom-bakers-fourth-doctor-to-be-released-on-vinyl/

>> Would have been nice to see Freema Agyeman as well, as the only companion
>> of Doctors 9-12 to survive with memories intact and returned to their
>> contemporary home. But she’s a busy woman, these days.
>
> Also missing: Jack Harkness and Mickey Smith!

Jack Harkness is not really a 21st century human, and in any case is still
living the life, having the adventures. This kaffeeklatsch is not meant for
him.

Mickey Smith is a fair shout, especially as he’s married to Martha - but
Noel Clarke is pretty much persona non grata. There wasn’t enough hard
evidence for the police to prosecute him, but he has recently dropped all
the suits he had filed against the press and BAFTA, so he seems to have
accepted that his behaviour was unacceptable.

>>
>> A gentle pre-regeneration with affectionate reflection, a loving farewell
>> to both Yaz and this Doctor - and no chaotic explosions or moments of doom
>> as after effects.
>
> The Doctor finally heard my suggestion that they NOT regenerate in a flying
> TARDIS!!!!!!!!!!

Seems unlikely. You’re real, Tim, and the Doctor is fictional.

>> And that fascinating reveal of David Tennant as the fourteenth Doctor,
>> complete with change of outfit. Change of outfit? What? What? What?
>
> Mizero Ncuti Gatwa will be the FIFTEENTH Doctor!
> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/index.html
>
> David Tennent is listed on
> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/episodes10.html as the Tenth and
> Fourteenth (or eleventh and twelfth and fifteenth) Doctor! He will be
> the first person to have THREE terms as the Doctor!

Yes. Still, the costume change is unlikely to be a random error on anyone’s
part, but rather a hint that there is something fishy about this
regeneration.

--
There are some corners of the universe
which have bred the most terrible things.
Things which act against everything we believe in.

They must be /fought/.

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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 by: The Last Doctor - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:58 UTC

The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <tj5rfn$1loal$1@dont-email.me>,
> The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well that was a roller coaster. To call it one of the
>> Overall it was a mess, but a highly enjoyable and entertaining mess. Not a
>> bad send off for Jodie, and so many, many callbacks to the past of the
>> show.
>>
>> On balance, despite an absolutely terrible, threadbare, nonsensical plot
>> line - 8/10 for the characters, for the love, and for the fun.
>
> You really are mentally unstable McKeown!

I’m not the one who reposted an entire commentary just to deliver an
unwarranted insult. I suggest you consider “mental instability” in that
context.

> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
> JN-T look like a supergenius!

As I noted in my commentary, there wasn’t a single mention of the Timeless
Child anywhere in yesterday’s episode, so I’m not sure why you’re bringing
that up.

And what exactly was unwatchable about the episode? You managed to watch it
all the way through, so you’re lying. You didn’t UNDERSTAND any of it, but
that’s par for the course and I see no reason that the BBC should make the
show for pre-schoolers so that you’d have a (slim) chance of comprehending
it.

And that you think John Nathan-Turner was a “supergenius” speaks volumes
for your inability to pass rational judgement.

--
There are some corners of the universe
which have bred the most terrible things.
Things which act against everything we believe in.

They must be /fought/.

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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From: agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM (The True Doctor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: The True Doctor - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:23 UTC

On 24/10/2022 15:00, The Last Doctor wrote:
> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbrueni@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:04:26 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>>
>> We did see the Master-Doctor tell an alien probe that the Doctor had
>> caused a war between two close planets! We will probably see David
>> Tennent trying to clear the Doctor's name during one of his specials in the next year.
>
> No Tim, we won’t. It’s over with, never to be mentioned again.
>
>> I assume that the Master wanted to control the Doctor's body so that the
>> Doctor would be unable to counter act the Master's defamation program!
>
> Um, there are thirty or more previous Doctors plus an unlimited number of
> future Doctors who could do that.
>

No there are not. Doctor Who ended in 2017. The Jodie Whittaker era is
not canon. There are only 12 Doctors.

>>> That magical landscape sequence - oh boy. Five past classic Doctors. Bravo!
>>> I assume Tom Baker was too unwell - he looked very frail indeed in recent
>>> photos.
>>
>> Are you expecting that we will soon see a "Tom Baker RIP" post in this group?
>
> Sadly, yes. I’d be pleased to be wrong, but I do know that Big Finish
> banked about four years of audio stories with him not too long ago - while
> they still could.
>
> Take a look at this recent picture and make your own mind up.
>
> https://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/2022/10/12/demons-quest-starring-tom-bakers-fourth-doctor-to-be-released-on-vinyl/

I quote from the article "It is good to see Tom looking so well and
proud to be still associated with his Fourth Doctor in Doctor Who "

>
>>> Would have been nice to see Freema Agyeman as well, as the only companion
>>> of Doctors 9-12 to survive with memories intact and returned to their
>>> contemporary home. But she’s a busy woman, these days.
>>
>> Also missing: Jack Harkness and Mickey Smith!
>
> Jack Harkness is not really a 21st century human, and in any case is still
> living the life, having the adventures. This kaffeeklatsch is not meant for
> him.
>
> Mickey Smith is a fair shout, especially as he’s married to Martha - but
> Noel Clarke is pretty much persona non grata. There wasn’t enough hard
> evidence for the police to prosecute him, but he has recently dropped all
> the suits he had filed against the press and BAFTA, so he seems to have
> accepted that his behaviour was unacceptable.

That doesn't imply any such thing. He doesn't have the money to spend on
lawyers fees even if he wins every case.

>>>
>>> A gentle pre-regeneration with affectionate reflection, a loving farewell
>>> to both Yaz and this Doctor - and no chaotic explosions or moments of doom
>>> as after effects.
>>
>> The Doctor finally heard my suggestion that they NOT regenerate in a flying
>> TARDIS!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Seems unlikely. You’re real, Tim, and the Doctor is fictional.
>
>
>>> And that fascinating reveal of David Tennant as the fourteenth Doctor,
>>> complete with change of outfit. Change of outfit? What? What? What?
>>
>> Mizero Ncuti Gatwa will be the FIFTEENTH Doctor!
>> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/index.html
>>
>> David Tennent is listed on
>> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/episodes10.html as the Tenth and
>> Fourteenth (or eleventh and twelfth and fifteenth) Doctor! He will be
>> the first person to have THREE terms as the Doctor!
>
> Yes. Still, the costume change is unlikely to be a random error on anyone’s
> part, but rather a hint that there is something fishy about this
> regeneration.

With any luck the entire Whittaker era along with the Timeless Child
monster will be erased and real Doctor Who will return from the dead to
replace Chibnall's deranged fan-fic.

--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." -William Shatner

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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From: agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM (The True Doctor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: The True Doctor - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:30 UTC

On 24/10/2022 15:58, The Last Doctor wrote:
> The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <tj5rfn$1loal$1@dont-email.me>,
>> The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well that was a roller coaster. To call it one of the
>>> Overall it was a mess, but a highly enjoyable and entertaining mess. Not a
>>> bad send off for Jodie, and so many, many callbacks to the past of the
>>> show.
>>>
>>> On balance, despite an absolutely terrible, threadbare, nonsensical plot
>>> line - 8/10 for the characters, for the love, and for the fun.
>>
>> You really are mentally unstable McKeown!
>
> I’m not the one who reposted an entire commentary just to deliver an
> unwarranted insult. I suggest you consider “mental instability” in that
> context.
>
>> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
>> JN-T look like a supergenius!
>
> As I noted in my commentary, there wasn’t a single mention of the Timeless
> Child anywhere in yesterday’s episode, so I’m not sure why you’re bringing
> that up.

Jo Martin being called the Doctor invokes it. There are no incarnations
of the Doctor before Hartnell.

>
> And what exactly was unwatchable about the episode? You managed to watch it
> all the way through, so you’re lying. You didn’t UNDERSTAND any of it, but
> that’s par for the course and I see no reason that the BBC should make the
> show for pre-schoolers so that you’d have a (slim) chance of comprehending
> it.

Then why is it being written in the manner of an autistic child that has
never learned to either read or write, let long think?

>
> And that you think John Nathan-Turner was a “supergenius” speaks volumes
> for your inability to pass rational judgement.
>

John Nathan-Turner was a better writer than Chibnall. Dimensions in Time
unlike this garbage had a coherent story and plot. Oh, and even Tom
Baker agreed to take part in it, even with Pertwee, Davison, Colin Baker
and Sylvester McCoy in it, so it makes you want to think once again why
he refused to take part in The Power of the Doctor and why Chibnall
effectively said shame on him.

--
The True Doctor https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCngrZwoS0n21IRcXpKO79Lw

"To be woke is to be uninformed which is exactly the opposite of what it
stands for." -William Shatner

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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From: john_nos...@jhall.co.uk (John Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary
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 by: John Hall - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:31 UTC

In message <tj5rfn$1loal$1@dont-email.me>, The Last Doctor
<mike@xenocyte.com> writes
>Overall it was a mess, but a highly enjoyable and entertaining mess.
>Not a bad send off for Jodie, and so many, many callbacks to the past
>of the show.
>
>On balance, despite an absolutely terrible, threadbare, nonsensical
>plot line - 8/10 for the characters, for the love, and for the fun.

While I disagree with some of your detailed points, I totally agree with
your summary.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
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 by: Blueshirt - Mon, 24 Oct 2022 20:29 UTC

The Last Doctor wrote:

> The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> > The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
> > JN-T look like a supergenius!
>
> And that you think John Nathan-Turner was a “supergenius” speaks
> volumes for your inability to pass rational judgement.

Yeah, I think "Super Genius" is a bit much!

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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From: danie...@nomail.afraid.org (Daniel65)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: Daniel65 - Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:23 UTC

The True Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 2:23 am:
> On 24/10/2022 15:00, The Last Doctor wrote:
>> tsbr...@gmail.com <tsbrueni@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:04:26 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> We did see the Master-Doctor tell an alien probe that the Doctor
>>> had caused a war between two close planets! We will probably see
>>> David Tennent trying to clear the Doctor's name during one of his
>>> specials in the next year.
>>
>> No Tim, we won’t. It’s over with, never to be mentioned again.
>>
>>> I assume that the Master wanted to control the Doctor's body so
>>> that the Doctor would be unable to counter act the Master's
>>> defamation program!
>>
>> Um, there are thirty or more previous Doctors plus an unlimited
>> number of future Doctors who could do that.
>
> No there are not. Doctor Who ended in 2017. The Jodie Whittaker era
> is not canon. There are only 12 Doctors.

http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/ doesn't even list 'The War Doctor'
..... but I guess he was "The War Doctor' not just 'The Doctor'!!

But, no, hang on, before he became "The War Doctor", he would have been
"The (real Ninth) Doctor, wouldn't he??
--
Daniel

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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 by: Daniel65 - Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:36 UTC

tsbr...@gmail.com wrote on 24/10/22 11:08 pm:

<Snip>

> David Tennent is listed on
> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/episodes10.html as the Tenth and
> Fourteenth (or eleventh and twelfth and fifteenth) Doctor! He will
> be the first person to have THREE terms as the Doctor!
>
Tim, if you were going to include The War Doctor in the numbering then
DoctorDavid would be eleventh and twelfth, DoctorMatt thirteenth,
DoctorPeter fourteenth, JodieDoc as fifteenth, DoctorDavid (again) as
sixteenth and Ncuti Gatwa as sixteenth!!

And note, the latest DoctorDavid has come from a JodieDoc regeneration
so you can't exclude her to get DoctorDavid back into 15th!!
--
Daniel

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 by: Daniel65 - Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:41 UTC

The Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 1:21 am:

<Snip>

> You really are mentally unstable McKeown!
>
> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
> JN-T look like a supergenius!

..... but YOU, asswipe, did watch it .... so what does that make YOU,
asswipe??
--
Daniel

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 by: solar penguin - Thu, 27 Oct 2022 12:04 UTC

Daniel declared:

> tsbr...@gmail.com wrote on 24/10/22 11:08 pm:
>
> <Snip>
>
>> David Tennent is listed on
>> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/episodes10.html as the Tenth and
>> Fourteenth (or eleventh and twelfth and fifteenth) Doctor! He will
>> be the first person to have THREE terms as the Doctor!
>>
> Tim, if you were going to include The War Doctor in the numbering then
> DoctorDavid would be eleventh and twelfth, DoctorMatt thirteenth,
> DoctorPeter fourteenth, JodieDoc as fifteenth, DoctorDavid (again) as
> sixteenth and Ncuti Gatwa as sixteenth!!

Or… JodieDoc as fifteenth, MasterDoc as sixteenth, JodieDoc
(again) as seventeenth, DoctorDavid (again) as eighteenth
and Ncuti Gatwa as eighteenth!

The numbering is so fucked up that it doesn’t really matter
if you count the Timeless Children or not!

>
> And note, the latest DoctorDavid has come from a JodieDoc regeneration
> so you can't exclude her to get DoctorDavid back into 15th!!

--
solar penguin

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 21:56:52 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Blueshirt - Thu, 27 Oct 2022 21:56 UTC

Daniel65 wrote:

> The Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 1:21 am:
>
> <Snip>
>
> > The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
> > JN-T look like a supergenius!
>
> .... but YOU, asswipe, did watch it .... so what does that make
> YOU, asswipe??

No Daniel, in Yaddish 'unwatchable' means you watch every episode but
complain about it afterwards.

Unwatchable for normal people means, of course, that you don't watch
it full stop.

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Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: The Coca Cola Kid - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 01:49 UTC

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 10:24:00 AM UTC-5, The True Doctor wrote:

> With any luck the entire Whittaker era along with the Timeless Child
> monster will be erased and real Doctor Who will return from the dead to
> replace Chibnall's deranged fan-fic.

Very unlikely that it will ever be explicitly retconned out of existence in any official Doctor Who media, but there are already ways for you to ignore it. The best-case scenario likely to happen is that the show will just move on and quietly ignore or make the occasional in-joke about it like it did with the half-human fiasco.

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Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately
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 by: The Coca Cola Kid - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 02:15 UTC

On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 7:52:33 AM UTC-5, The True Doctor wrote:
> On 24/10/2022 13:08, tsbr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 4:04:26 AM UTC-7, The Last Doctor wrote:
> >> Well that was a roller coaster. To call it one of the best episodes Chris
> >> Chibnall has put together is to damn it with faint praise, but it is.
> >>
>
> >>
> >> That magical landscape sequence - oh boy. Five past classic Doctors. Bravo!
> >> I assume Tom Baker was too unwell - he looked very frail indeed in recent
> >> photos.
> >
> > Are you expecting that we will soon see a "Tom Baker RIP" post in this group?
> https://www.irishmirror.ie/tv/doctor-who-producer-reveals-tom-28311251
>
> <<Showrunner Chris Chibnall explained the actor [Tom Baker], now 88, was
> unable to take part. He stressed: “We asked Tom, but sadly he could not
> do it. He was not available. Such a shame.”>>
>
> That doesn't sound like ill health to me. It sounds like a clear point
> black refusal to appear. "He was not available. Such a shame."
>
> Such a shame, not sorry that he's been unwell or he's so frail these
> days. Chibnall is saying Tom Baker should feel ashamed for not taking part.

Serious question: is English not your first language? Or are you just taking the piss here?

"Such a shame" is an idiom that means that something is very unfortunate, or sad, disappointing. It is not assigning blame or shame to a specific individual, but is referring to the circumstance.

> Well he's taken part in Big Finish stories with all the other actors,
> except maybe for Bradley including working directly with Paul McGann and
> Colin Baker, and he's friends with Sylvester McCoy, so unless he has
> something against Peter Davison the only reason he didn't want to take
> part, it's not like he's stopped doing audio's for Big Finish either, is
> he doesn't want to be associated with Chibnall and Whittaker's failure.

Like Eccleston, he probably views the audios very differently than television appearances. In the audios, people can imagine him looking like the Doctor as he was when he was younger. He might have no interest in reprising the role of the Doctor again on TV

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
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 by: Daniel65 - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 08:52 UTC

Blueshirt wrote on 28/10/22 8:56 am:
> Daniel65 wrote:
>
>> The Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 1:21 am:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
>>> JN-T look like a supergenius!
>>
>> .... but YOU, asswipe, did watch it .... so what does that make
>> YOU, asswipe??
>
> No Daniel, in Yaddish 'unwatchable' means you watch every episode but
> complain about it afterwards.

Ah!! So the episode is "unwatchable" if you cannot complain about it
WHILST you are watching it, maybe!!

> Unwatchable for normal people means, of course, that you don't watch
> it full stop.
>
Yeap! That makes sense to me!
--
Daniel

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 by: Daniel65 - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 09:54 UTC

The Coca Cola Kid wrote on 28/10/22 12:49 pm:
> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 10:24:00 AM UTC-5, The True Doctor
> wrote:
>
>> With any luck the entire Whittaker era along with the Timeless
>> Child monster will be erased and real Doctor Who will return from
>> the dead to replace Chibnall's deranged fan-fic.
>
> Very unlikely that it will ever be explicitly retconned out of
> existence in any official Doctor Who media, but there are already
> ways for you to ignore it. The best-case scenario likely to happen
> is that the show will just move on and quietly ignore or make the
> occasional in-joke about it like it did with the half-human fiasco.
>
This idea of retconning Chibnall/Whittaker out of "Doctor Who" history
..... is that (mainly) because of Chris Chibnall's storyline/directing or
(mainly) because of Jodie Whittaker's acting abilities??

The reason I ask is, really, wanting to know if people think Jodie has
killed off the possibility of Female "Doctor Who's" in the future!!
--
Daniel

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 by: Daniel65 - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 10:00 UTC

The Doctor wrote on 27/10/22 11:09 pm:
> In article <tjds4f$2oq7g$1@dont-email.me>,
> solar penguin <solar.penguin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Daniel declared:
>>> tsbr...@gmail.com wrote on 24/10/22 11:08 pm:
>>>
>>> <Snip>
>>>
>>>> David Tennent is listed on
>>>> http://www.chakoteya.net/DoctorWho/episodes10.html as the Tenth and
>>>> Fourteenth (or eleventh and twelfth and fifteenth) Doctor! He will
>>>> be the first person to have THREE terms as the Doctor!
>>>>
>>> Tim, if you were going to include The War Doctor in the numbering then
>>> DoctorDavid would be eleventh and twelfth, DoctorMatt thirteenth,
>>> DoctorPeter fourteenth, JodieDoc as fifteenth, DoctorDavid (again) as
>>> sixteenth and Ncuti Gatwa as sixteenth!!
>>
>> Or… JodieDoc as fifteenth, MasterDoc as sixteenth, JodieDoc
>> (again) as seventeenth, DoctorDavid (again) as eighteenth
>> and Ncuti Gatwa as eighteenth!
>>
>> The numbering is so f*ed up that it doesn’t really matter
>> if you count the Timeless Children or not!
>
> JUst retcon the Timeless Child and that should be the fix.

No, asswipe, we all know JodieDoc HAS happened, just as The Seventh
Doctor and The Eight Doctor have happened are, forever more, parts of
'Doctor Who' history!!

Sure, you can ignore her or make her impact as small as possible, BUT
SHE HAS HAPPENED!!

Get over it!!

>>> And note, the latest DoctorDavid has come from a JodieDoc regeneration
>>> so you can't exclude her to get DoctorDavid back into 15th!!
--
Daniel

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 by: Daniel65 - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 10:02 UTC

The Doctor wrote on 27/10/22 10:56 pm:
> In article <tjdqq7$2oljq$1@dont-email.me>,
> Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> The Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 1:21 am:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>> You really are mentally unstable McKeown!
>>>
>>> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
>>> JN-T look like a supergenius!
>>
>> .... but YOU, asswipe, did watch it .... so what does that make YOU,
>> asswipe??
>
> Are you that much under quicksand Idlehands-mouth Dannyboy?

????
--
Daniel

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 by: Blueshirt - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 10:30 UTC

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <tjeur4$7hs$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > Unwatchable for normal people means, of course, that you don't watch
> > it full stop.
>
> I rather watch Survival! It makes better sense than anything from The
> Timeless Child ERa.

Yet you watch every episode of Doctor Who so clearly none of it is
unwatchable...

Thinking 'Survival' is good Doctor Who just shows the world that you
really are delusional... There was better episodes of Doctor Who before
it and after it.

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

<tjgavj$326fl$2@dont-email.me>

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 10:30:11 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Blueshirt - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 10:30 UTC

The Coca Cola Kid wrote:

> On Monday, October 24, 2022 at 7:52:33 AM UTC-5, The True Doctor
> wrote:
> >
> > <<Showrunner Chris Chibnall explained the actor [Tom Baker], now
> > 88, was unable to take part. He stressed: “We asked Tom, but sadly
> > he could not do it. He was not available. Such a shame.”>>
> >
> > That doesn't sound like ill health to me. It sounds like a clear
> > point black refusal to appear. "He was not available. Such a
> > shame."
> >
> > Such a shame, not sorry that he's been unwell or he's so frail
> > these days. Chibnall is saying Tom Baker should feel ashamed for
> > not taking part.
>
> Serious question: is English not your first language? Or are you
> just taking the piss here?

I go with the latter... as nobody posting the stuff Agamemnon does
could be taken seriously.

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

<tjgvtv$34t7g$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary
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 by: Blueshirt - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 16:27 UTC

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <tjg589$31fuh$1@dont-email.me>,
> Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> > Blueshirt wrote on 28/10/22 8:56 am:
> >> Daniel65 wrote:
> >>
> >>> The Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 1:21 am:
> > > >
> >>> <Snip>
> > > >
> >>>> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
> >>>> JN-T look like a supergenius!
> > > >
> >>> .... but YOU, asswipe, did watch it .... so what does that make
> >>> YOU, asswipe??
> >>
> >> No Daniel, in Yaddish 'unwatchable' means you watch every episode
> but >> complain about it afterwards.
> >
> > Ah!! So the episode is "unwatchable" if you cannot complain about
> > it WHILST you are watching it, maybe!!
> >
> >> Unwatchable for normal people means, of course, that you don't
> watch >> it full stop.
> >>
> > Yeap! That makes sense to me!
>
> And you get me and TTD!

What a great pairing. TTD = The Two Delusionals!

I hope you'll be very happy together.

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,rec.arts.sf.tv,uk.media.tv.sf.drwho
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 by: Blueshirt - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 16:27 UTC

The Doctor wrote:

> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > The Doctor wrote:
> >
> >> In article <tjeur4$7hs$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> >> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > Thinking 'Survival' is good Doctor Who just shows the world that you
> > really are delusional... There was better episodes of Doctor Who
> > before it and after it.
>
> And the Timeless Child does not qualify for the better than Survival
> category!

That would be a good debate.

> The Timeless child does not even qualify for the Better than Timelash
> category!

Steady on old chap...

Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary

<XnsAF3E725575F2Dtaustingmail@85.12.62.245>

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Subject: Re: [Doctor Who] The Power of the Doctor - an appropriately disjointed and incoherent commentary
From: tausti...@gmail.com (Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha)
References: <tj5rfn$1loal$1@dont-email.me> <tjdqq7$2oljq$1@dont-email.me> <tjeur4$7hs$1@gioia.aioe.org> <tjg589$31fuh$1@dont-email.me> <tjgq5h$30ha$4@gallifrey.nk.ca> <tjgvtv$34t7g$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Jibini Kula Tumbili - Fri, 28 Oct 2022 18:14 UTC

"Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
news:tjgvtv$34t7g$1@dont-email.me:

> The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <tjg589$31fuh$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> > Blueshirt wrote on 28/10/22 8:56 am:
>> >> Daniel65 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The Doctor wrote on 25/10/22 1:21 am:
>> > > >
>> >>> <Snip>
>> > > >
>> >>>> The whole Timeless Child was so unwatchable that it makes
>> >>>> JN-T look like a supergenius!
>> > > >
>> >>> .... but YOU, asswipe, did watch it .... so what does that
>> >>> make YOU, asswipe??
>> >>
>> >> No Daniel, in Yaddish 'unwatchable' means you watch every
>> >> episode
>> but >> complain about it afterwards.
>> >
>> > Ah!! So the episode is "unwatchable" if you cannot complain
>> > about it WHILST you are watching it, maybe!!
>> >
>> >> Unwatchable for normal people means, of course, that you
>> >> don't
>> watch >> it full stop.
>> >>
>> > Yeap! That makes sense to me!
>>
>> And you get me and TTD!
>
> What a great pairing. TTD = The Two Delusionals!
>
> I hope you'll be very happy together.
>
God forbid they should breed.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

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