In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670-b5c6-815acbe67437n@googlegroups.com>,
RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:

> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no one
> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because they
> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy. That is
> "cancel culture."
>
>
> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-25-ho
> w-tainted-is-it

No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.

> A Friend
>
> No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
> and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
> about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.

What did Robert Mitchum do?

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670-b5c6-815acbe67437n@googlegroups.com>,
> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no one
>> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because they
>> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
>> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy. That is
>> "cancel culture."
>>
>>
>> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-25-ho
>> w-tainted-is-it
>
>
>
> No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
> and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
> about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
>

For instance I still can’t get past the fact that Jane Fonda should be
arrested, tried, and convicted of treason and put to death and I’ll flip
the switch.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>A Friend

>>No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
>>and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
>>about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.

>What did Robert Mitchum do?

As a teenager, he was arrested for something petty and sentenced to a
chain gang, from which he escaped. Chain gangs were a perverse incentive
for police and sheriffs in those days as prisoner labor was leased (you
thought the 13th Amendment abolished slavery but not forced labor as a
sentence for being convicted of a crime) and the sheriff or police chief
took a huge kickback.

You can download the Mitchum interview here although he'd told that
story many times before.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130726034508/http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/robert-mitchum-1962.pdf

Unless A friend is hinting at a different story...

In article <t0gero$mbn$4@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>A Friend
>
> >>No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
> >>and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
> >>about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
>
> >What did Robert Mitchum do?
>
> As a teenager, he was arrested for something petty and sentenced to a
> chain gang, from which he escaped. Chain gangs were a perverse incentive
> for police and sheriffs in those days as prisoner labor was leased (you
> thought the 13th Amendment abolished slavery but not forced labor as a
> sentence for being convicted of a crime) and the sheriff or police chief
> took a huge kickback.
>
> You can download the Mitchum interview here although he'd told that
> story many times before.
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20130726034508/http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/
> wp-content/uploads/satevepost/robert-mitchum-1962.pdf
>
> Unless A friend is hinting at a different story...

I was. Mitchum was arrested by LAPD detectives in 1948 while he was
smoking a joint at a party. Mitchum thought it was the end of his
career. Even his wife Dorothy, from whom he was separated, came back
to defend him. Mitchum pled out and did 50 days in jail and on a
prison farm, followed by two years of probation. He behaved himself
during that time. When his probation was over, his conviction was
expunged from the record.

In article
<320456827.668726106.586624.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> > In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670-b5c6-815acbe67437n@googlegroups.com>,
> > RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no one
> >> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because
> >> they
> >> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
> >> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy. That
> >> is
> >> "cancel culture."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-25-
> >> ho
> >> w-tainted-is-it
> >
> >
> >
> > No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
> > and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
> > about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
> >
>
> For instance I still can¹t get past the fact that Jane Fonda should be
> arrested, tried, and convicted of treason and put to death and I¹ll flip
> the switch.

Okay, here it is. I can see her going to Hanoi. I can see her talking
to the North Vietnamese leadership. But sitting in the seat of an
anti-aircraft gun and gleefully clapping her hands while she swung back
and forth in the seat, like it was Christmas? No. Just fucking no.

A Friend wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>A Friend

>>>>No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
>>>>and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
>>>>about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.

>>>What did Robert Mitchum do?

>>As a teenager, he was arrested for something petty and sentenced to a
>>chain gang, from which he escaped. Chain gangs were a perverse incentive
>>for police and sheriffs in those days as prisoner labor was leased (you
>>thought the 13th Amendment abolished slavery but not forced labor as a
>>sentence for being convicted of a crime) and the sheriff or police chief
>>took a huge kickback.
>>You can download the Mitchum interview here although he'd told that
>>story many times before.

>>https://web.archive.org/web/20130726034508/http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/wp-content/uploads/satevepost/robert-mitchum-1962.pdf

>>Unless A friend is hinting at a different story...

>I was. Mitchum was arrested by LAPD detectives in 1948 while he was
>smoking a joint at a party. Mitchum thought it was the end of his
>career. Even his wife Dorothy, from whom he was separated, came back
>to defend him. Mitchum pled out and did 50 days in jail and on a
>prison farm, followed by two years of probation. He behaved himself
>during that time. When his probation was over, his conviction was
>expunged from the record.

Oh, that story.

His next movie to be released after his release was Rachel and the
Stranger, although I recall they let him complete it before reporting
for jail or something like that.

The public didn't care, and I think the studio was in a better
negotiating position on this salary.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <t0gero$mbn$4@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> A Friend
>>
>>>> No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
>>>> and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
>>>> about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
>>
>>> What did Robert Mitchum do?
>>
>> As a teenager, he was arrested for something petty and sentenced to a
>> chain gang, from which he escaped. Chain gangs were a perverse incentive
>> for police and sheriffs in those days as prisoner labor was leased (you
>> thought the 13th Amendment abolished slavery but not forced labor as a
>> sentence for being convicted of a crime) and the sheriff or police chief
>> took a huge kickback.
>>
>> You can download the Mitchum interview here although he'd told that
>> story many times before.
>>
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20130726034508/http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/
>> wp-content/uploads/satevepost/robert-mitchum-1962.pdf
>>
>> Unless A friend is hinting at a different story...
>
>
> I was. Mitchum was arrested by LAPD detectives in 1948 while he was
> smoking a joint at a party. Mitchum thought it was the end of his
> career. Even his wife Dorothy, from whom he was separated, came back
> to defend him. Mitchum pled out and did 50 days in jail and on a
> prison farm, followed by two years of probation. He behaved himself
> during that time. When his probation was over, his conviction was
> expunged from the record.
>

You’d think they’d have made a movie out of that, starring his son.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <320456827.668726106.586624.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>> In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670-b5c6-815acbe67437n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no one
>>>> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because
>>>> they
>>>> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
>>>> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy. That
>>>> is
>>>> "cancel culture."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-25-
>>>> ho
>>>> w-tainted-is-it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
>>> and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
>>> about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
>>>
>>
>> For instance I still can¹t get past the fact that Jane Fonda should be
>> arrested, tried, and convicted of treason and put to death and I¹ll flip
>> the switch.
>
>
> Okay, here it is. I can see her going to Hanoi. I can see her talking
> to the North Vietnamese leadership. But sitting in the seat of an
> anti-aircraft gun and gleefully clapping her hands while she swung back
> and forth in the seat, like it was Christmas? No. Just fucking no.
>

And doing it for the cameras. No way to say that was an aid and comfort to
the enemy.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 11 March 2022 at 16:18:03 UTC-5, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>>> In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no one
>>>> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because they
>>>> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
>>>> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy. That is
>>>> "cancel culture."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-25-ho
>>>> w-tainted-is-it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
>>> and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
>>> about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
>>>
>> For instance I still can’t get past the fact that Jane Fonda should be
>> arrested, tried, and convicted of treason and put to death and I’ll flip
>> the switch.
>>
>> --
>> “The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”
>
> And yet Fonda is a good actor and had been in a few good movies. Whedon
> channeled some kind of daddy issues into "Buffy" and it worked, made his
> point about female empowerment without it being nauseating. My point is
> you can despise the person for what they are in real-life but can't
> logically deny that they produced something of value. Lots of rotten
> people have done things of value.
>

I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying we should weigh her work after she’s
been put to death.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

In article <m48o2hlhalkt0r63h27vg6o74g4gpt7oo5@4ax.com>, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 22:51:50 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><320456827.668726106.586624.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> >anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> >> > In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670-b5c6-815acbe67437n@googlegroups.com>,
> >> > RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no
> >> >> one
> >> >> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because
> >> >> they
> >> >> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
> >> >> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy.
> >> >> That
> >> >> is
> >> >> "cancel culture."
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-
> >> >> 25-
> >> >> ho
> >> >> w-tainted-is-it
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
> >> > and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
> >> > about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
> >> >
> >>
> >> For instance I still can1t get past the fact that Jane Fonda should be
> >> arrested, tried, and convicted of treason and put to death and I1ll flip
> >> the switch.
> >
> >
> >Okay, here it is. I can see her going to Hanoi. I can see her talking
> >to the North Vietnamese leadership. But sitting in the seat of an
> >anti-aircraft gun and gleefully clapping her hands while she swung back
> >and forth in the seat, like it was Christmas? No. Just fucking no.
>
> I can even see that IFF she didn't give any thought to what it would
> have been used for. So she would have been acting like a kid holding a
> gun pretending to shoot the ' bad guys' without giving any thought to
> who would be the bad guys in this case. Is she clueless enough to
> think that way? No idea.

She's pretty smart, and I give her points for being tough, but the
gleeful-clapping thing was way, way out of line. (She has apologized
for it since, so I guess she shares my opinion of it.) I guess I
should also say that this isn't history for me. It was then-current
news, along with the ball scores and the weather. I hated the war, but
I also hated stuff like this.

I have watched Fonda's work in the years since, but that long-past
business is never quite out of my mind when I do.

On 3/12/2022 8:21 AM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <m48o2hlhalkt0r63h27vg6o74g4gpt7oo5@4ax.com>, shawn
> <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 22:51:50 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <320456827.668726106.586624.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <57dd81b3-1213-4670-b5c6-815acbe67437n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Homosexuality was illegal in a lot of countries prior to 1960, but no
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> ever said, "lets invalidate the work of Michaelangelo or DaVinci because
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> were purported to be gay." Not that "Buffy" in the same league, but you
>>>>>> don't discount good work because a creator was supposedly a bad guy.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> "cancel culture."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220310-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-at-
>>>>>> 25-
>>>>>> ho
>>>>>> w-tainted-is-it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. If a viewer can't get past something an actor did IRL
>>>>> and refuses to look at him anymore, there is nothing anyone can do
>>>>> about that. Ex: Bill Cosby. Counter-example: Robert Mitchum.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For instance I still can1t get past the fact that Jane Fonda should be
>>>> arrested, tried, and convicted of treason and put to death and I1ll flip
>>>> the switch.
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, here it is. I can see her going to Hanoi. I can see her talking
>>> to the North Vietnamese leadership. But sitting in the seat of an
>>> anti-aircraft gun and gleefully clapping her hands while she swung back
>>> and forth in the seat, like it was Christmas? No. Just fucking no.
>>
>> I can even see that IFF she didn't give any thought to what it would
>> have been used for. So she would have been acting like a kid holding a
>> gun pretending to shoot the ' bad guys' without giving any thought to
>> who would be the bad guys in this case. Is she clueless enough to
>> think that way? No idea.
>
>
> She's pretty smart, and I give her points for being tough, but the
> gleeful-clapping thing was way, way out of line. (She has apologized
> for it since, so I guess she shares my opinion of it.) I guess I
> should also say that this isn't history for me. It was then-current
> news, along with the ball scores and the weather. I hated the war, but
> I also hated stuff like this.
>
> I have watched Fonda's work in the years since, but that long-past
> business is never quite out of my mind when I do.

It might serve as a worthwhile reminder of what we're all capable of.
Though I've no direct experience of the Nazis, I still think of them
with every mention of Germany (...my principal ancestry).