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arts / rec.arts.tv / Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill Creek

SubjectAuthor
* Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Millweary flake
+* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sanim8rfsk
|+- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byDimensional Traveler
|`* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekA Friend
| +* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekAdam H. Kerman
| |`* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sanim8rfsk
| | +- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sAdam H. Kerman
| | `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byweary flake
| |  `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekA Friend
| |   +* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byweary flake
| |   |+- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sanim8rfsk
| |   |`* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekA Friend
| |   | +* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekThe Horny Goat
| |   | |`* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekA Friend
| |   | | `- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made bychromebook test
| |   | `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byweary flake
| |   |  `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sanim8rfsk
| |   |   `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekA Friend
| |   |    `- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byweary flake
| |   `- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekThe Horny Goat
| `- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sanim8rfsk
+* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekYour Name
|`* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it'sanim8rfsk
| `- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill CreekThe Horny Goat
`* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byweary flake
 `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill Creekweary flake
  `* Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made byweary flake
   `- Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill Creekweary flake

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Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill Creek

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 by: weary fl...@nowhere - Sun, 2 Jan 2022 01:43 UTC

On 12/31/21 12:15 AM, weary flake wrote:
> On 12/5/21 6:30 PM, weary flake wrote:
>> The amazon listing for the newly released I Dream Of Jeannie [1965-70] Blu-rays
>> falsely lists the studio as "Sony" when it's actually Mill Creek, so if I ordered
>> it I would likely return it as "wrong website description". A real Sony Blu-ray
>> release probably would have more than 12 discs.
>>
>> Mill Creek has a deservedly bad reputation of bit-starving it's releases of
>> DVDs and is continuing to do so with many of it's blu-rays, using severe
>> compression to reduce the number of discs used. There's really no valid
>> reason disclosed for this practice: disc replication is *dirt cheap* with
>> Blu-rays, DVDs and CDs, so the common apology for exclusion of material or
>> overcompression that "there is not enough space" or to "keep disc count low"
>> doesn't hold water. Disc replication is the tiniest fraction of the cost
>> of producing box sets, and messing it up is the most obvious de-valuing
>> of the set in the eyes of the consumer.
>>
>> I haven't seen it but hearsay reviews of the new box set has it that it's "just
>> an upsampling", "soft" etc. Mill Creek already made an inferior DVD set of this
>> set in 12 discs while the original release was by Sony as 20 discs, either 20
>> discs piled on a spindle or as the original season sets. Is it possible for
>> the 12 Mill Creek Blu-rays to be inferior in quality than the 20 Sony DVDs?
>> Compression can accomplish this, so can other extreme video processing,
>> like using so-called Noise Reduction to reduce the amount of detail in the
>> image to assist in the extreme compression. I doubt that there is not more
>> detail somewhat in the Blu-rays but that detail can easily be messed up by
>> compression artifacts and noise reduction artifacts. Well, we can wait for
>> someone to make a technical review between the versions but that may never
>> happen.
>>
>> Both separate black and white and colorized versions of the first season were
>> released by Sony, and it's said that the black and white version is merely the
>> "color" version with the color turned off: it could be, as colorizers are
>> notoriously dishonest about the work that they do, their favorite trick is to
>> first colorize a black and white original and then turn off the color and claim
>> the heavily altered result is the "original" when compared to the colorized
>> version, to make their own work look better when a valid test would compare
>> the actual black and white original with the colorized version and expose
>> the terrible work of the colorization process.
>>
>> Just wait till General Schaeffer hears about this! and gimme a pip-chik!
>
> Here's some screen screenshots comparing the Mill Creek Blu-rays to the DVDs, each
> set of pictures is first a screenshot of the DVD (presumably Sony's DVD), then
> the Mill Creek Blu-rays, the blu-rays are clearly inferior to the DVDs,
> scroll down a bit:
>
> https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/i-dream-of-jeannie-the-complete-series-blu-ray-available-for-preorder.371911/page-16
>
> The Mill Creek box is in "Blur-Ray".

Here's a review of the set by a bad reviewer:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/I-Dream-of-Jeannie-The-Complete-Series-Blu-ray/1265/

The reviewer lists some - but not all - defects and includes snapshots to show his
claims of a bad picture with jerkiness, ghosting, lack of detail, etc., and "worse,
there is some serious jittering and interlacing artifacts seen in the episode There
Goes the Best Genie I Ever Had; the episode is nearly unwatchable." Yet, concludes
the set is good. I dislike reviews that use the "damning with faint praise" method,
as he doesn't conclude that it is badly engineered by Mill Creek but feels
compelled to praise it merely because it is on Blu-ray. As for it being 'good enough
because it's old', I Dream Of Jeannie is on 35mm black and white and color film,
and it's expected to have much more definition than 16mm and even more so than
Standard Definition video masters, which many newer 70's to 00's tape and digital
shows are mastered in.

It's also reported that the "Help, Help, a Shark" episode has a minute of loud audio
static making the dialog inaudible.

Amazon continues to cover up for Mill Creek by listing the set as made by Sony:

https://www.amazon.com/I-Dream-Jeannie-Complete-Blu-ray/dp/B0932HJ14Y/

Again, misleading listings by amazon have to be exposed by customer reviewers.
There is a very small picture from a customer review showing comparison snapshots
and I see the blu-ray as having less detail than the DVD, from Mill Creek's
"noise reduction".

Amazon itself has lousy engineering, formerly you could separate mixed together
reviews by choosing the "Format" column when clicking on "show all reviews" to
see just the reviews for a specific dis or book but Amazon revoked that ability in
2020. All Amazon lets you do now is click Show All Reviews at the bottom of the
reviews and click sort by newest and guess which ones refer to the Blu-rays and
not the older editions. This is just one more way that Amazon is user-hostile.
I'm sure Major Healey would agree with me.

But can the Mill Creek set not be the worst? The worst productions are the TV
channels or streaming sites (Tubi for example, by hearsay) that remove one third
of the picture by chopping off the top and bottom of the picture to make fake
widescreen: even so, the Sony set is better picture quality despite Sony's lousy
packaging with the false economy of stacking all the discs on a spindle. Some
reviewers are saying that the Mill Creek Blu-ray set is actually worse than the
lower quality Mill Creek DVD set, as the DVD set doesn't have the motion defects of
the blu-rays.

Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill Creek

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 by: weary flake - Sun, 10 Apr 2022 00:19 UTC

On 1/1/22 5:43 PM, weary flake wrote:
> On 12/31/21 12:15 AM, weary flake wrote:
>> On 12/5/21 6:30 PM, weary flake wrote:
>>> The amazon listing for the newly released I Dream Of Jeannie [1965-70] Blu-rays
>>> falsely lists the studio as "Sony" when it's actually Mill Creek, so if I ordered
>>> it I would likely return it as "wrong website description". A real Sony Blu-ray
>>> release probably would have more than 12 discs.
>>>
>>> Mill Creek has a deservedly bad reputation of bit-starving it's releases of
>>> DVDs and is continuing to do so with many of it's blu-rays, using severe
>>> compression to reduce the number of discs used. There's really no valid
>>> reason disclosed for this practice: disc replication is *dirt cheap* with
>>> Blu-rays, DVDs and CDs, so the common apology for exclusion of material or
>>> overcompression that "there is not enough space" or to "keep disc count low"
>>> doesn't hold water. Disc replication is the tiniest fraction of the cost
>>> of producing box sets, and messing it up is the most obvious de-valuing
>>> of the set in the eyes of the consumer.
>>>
>>> I haven't seen it but hearsay reviews of the new box set has it that it's "just
>>> an upsampling", "soft" etc. Mill Creek already made an inferior DVD set of this
>>> set in 12 discs while the original release was by Sony as 20 discs, either 20
>>> discs piled on a spindle or as the original season sets. Is it possible for
>>> the 12 Mill Creek Blu-rays to be inferior in quality than the 20 Sony DVDs?
>>> Compression can accomplish this, so can other extreme video processing,
>>> like using so-called Noise Reduction to reduce the amount of detail in the
>>> image to assist in the extreme compression. I doubt that there is not more
>>> detail somewhat in the Blu-rays but that detail can easily be messed up by
>>> compression artifacts and noise reduction artifacts. Well, we can wait for
>>> someone to make a technical review between the versions but that may never
>>> happen.
>>>
>>> Both separate black and white and colorized versions of the first season were
>>> released by Sony, and it's said that the black and white version is merely the
>>> "color" version with the color turned off: it could be, as colorizers are
>>> notoriously dishonest about the work that they do, their favorite trick is to
>>> first colorize a black and white original and then turn off the color and claim
>>> the heavily altered result is the "original" when compared to the colorized
>>> version, to make their own work look better when a valid test would compare
>>> the actual black and white original with the colorized version and expose
>>> the terrible work of the colorization process.
>>>
>>> Just wait till General Schaeffer hears about this! and gimme a pip-chik!
>>
>> Here's some screen screenshots comparing the Mill Creek Blu-rays to the DVDs, each
>> set of pictures is first a screenshot of the DVD (presumably Sony's DVD), then
>> the Mill Creek Blu-rays, the blu-rays are clearly inferior to the DVDs,
>> scroll down a bit:
>>
>> https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/i-dream-of-jeannie-the-complete-series-blu-ray-available-for-preorder.371911/page-16
>>
>> The Mill Creek box is in "Blur-Ray".
>
> Here's a review of the set by a bad reviewer:
>
> https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/I-Dream-of-Jeannie-The-Complete-Series-Blu-ray/1265/
>
> The reviewer lists some - but not all - defects and includes snapshots to show his
> claims of a bad picture with jerkiness, ghosting, lack of detail, etc., and "worse,
> there is some serious jittering and interlacing artifacts seen in the episode There
> Goes the Best Genie I Ever Had; the episode is nearly unwatchable." Yet, concludes
> the set is good. I dislike reviews that use the "damning with faint praise" method,
> as he doesn't conclude that it is badly engineered by Mill Creek but feels
> compelled to praise it merely because it is on Blu-ray. As for it being 'good enough
> because it's old', I Dream Of Jeannie is on 35mm black and white and color film,
> and it's expected to have much more definition than 16mm and even more so than
> Standard Definition video masters, which many newer 70's to 00's tape and digital
> shows are mastered in.
>
> It's also reported that the "Help, Help, a Shark" episode has a minute of loud audio
> static making the dialog inaudible.
>
> Amazon continues to cover up for Mill Creek by listing the set as made by Sony:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/I-Dream-Jeannie-Complete-Blu-ray/dp/B0932HJ14Y/
>

And amazon still conceals that what it's selling is by Mill Creek and instead says
it's made by Sony Pictures Home. Amazon has the most dishonest listing for this;
everybody else says it's by Mill Creek.

Walmart online, by the way, says that the original second season DVD set is
"colorized", which is false. Walmart and Amazon, so technically inept!

> Again, misleading listings by amazon have to be exposed by customer reviewers.
> There is a very small picture from a customer review showing comparison snapshots
> and I see the blu-ray as having less detail than the DVD, from Mill Creek's
> "noise reduction".
>
> Amazon itself has lousy engineering, formerly you could separate mixed together
> reviews by choosing the "Format" column when clicking on "show all reviews" to
> see just the reviews for a specific dis or book but Amazon revoked that ability in
> 2020. All Amazon lets you do now is click Show All Reviews at the bottom of the
> reviews and click sort by newest and guess which ones refer to the Blu-rays and
> not the older editions. This is just one more way that Amazon is user-hostile.
> I'm sure Major Healey would agree with me.
>
> But can the Mill Creek set not be the worst? The worst productions are the TV
> channels or streaming sites (Tubi for example, by hearsay) that remove one third
> of the picture by chopping off the top and bottom of the picture to make fake
> widescreen: even so, the Sony set is better picture quality despite Sony's lousy
> packaging with the false economy of stacking all the discs on a spindle. Some
> reviewers are saying that the Mill Creek Blu-ray set is actually worse than the
> lower quality Mill Creek DVD set, as the DVD set doesn't have the motion defects of
> the blu-rays.

I've been watching the original DVD sets for the show in order (including the black
and white version for the first season) and I don't see see any copyright notices
on the black and white episodes that say it's copyrighted in 2003 or the 1990's
or whenever the first season was colorized. So it's not true that the black and
white episodes were the colorized episodes with the color turned off on the DVDs.
Reviewers who said that are confused between what is on DVDs and what is on TV.
It would be non-surprising for a TV channel to broadcast in a fake black and white
version of fake color and I understand that's happened and maybe still happens
on TV channels, as TV channels have contempt for their viewers.

The black and white version of the first season DVDs were also badly distributed in
2006. Separate black and white and color sets were made but Best Buy, Walmart, etc.,
only carried the fake color versions, requiring special orders to get the black and
white or having to order it online . Sony also is said to have only the fake color
version when they did their badly designed "complete set" (stacking 20 discs on a
spindle).

For some reason it always looked like the some of the episodes are out of order,
on DVDs and many reruns I saw. According to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I_Dream_of_Jeannie_episodes

the second season episode 3 "My Master, the Rich Tycoon" broadcast on September 26,
1966 mentions the Christmas Club account incident which doesn't happen until
episode 15 "Jeannie Breaks the Bank" broadcast on December 19, 1966. This gave
me the impression on reruns that the banker guy in the later episode was in a black
and white episode, since it's mentioned in the third episode and the show had just
turned color. So what order was intended?

Re: Bad news about the Blu-rays of I Dream Of Jeannie, it's made by Mill Creek

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 by: weary flake - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 19:52 UTC

On 4/9/22 10:51 PM, super70s wrote:
> In article <J9SdnQOLCfg8v8__nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> weary flake <wearyflake@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mill Creek has a deservedly bad reputation of bit-starving it's releases of
>> DVDs and is continuing to do so with many of it's blu-rays, using severe
>> compression to reduce the number of discs used.
>
> I have the first four seasons of "Roseanne" on Mill Creek DVD's and they
> seem OK. I have a "Best of Marcus Welby M.D. - Season One" as a 2-DVD
> set by Mill Creek and they could probably be better (assuming they had
> some decent source material to work with to begin with).

I've compared movies that have been duplicated in DVD drive-in collections
by BCI and later on Mill Creek, said to have bought BCI's library, and the
Mill Creek is substantially worse. Cramming a 6 m bit rate from BCI to 4 m bit
rate on the Mill Creek seemed to make all the difference for a particular
movie I watched: though Mill Creek bitrates are usually lower, with cramming
more movies per disc.

I've compared the first season of 3rd Rock From The Sun from the original
DVD set and then the Mill Creek set and the video quality was much worse
with Mill Creek. The Mill Creek reissue supposedly had footage not included
with the original but I've never read anything that pointed out the
differences. Mill Creek crammed a 2 DVD collection onto 1 DVD.

Roseanne, Partridge Family, Bewitched and many others have quality
reductions by Mill Creek's reissue policy of reducing the number of discs
through lowering the bitrate, and though you didn't notice with Roseanne, you
didn't compare it with the original and I speculate the difference could be
strong. Each Mill Creek season has one less disc than the original
set.

I don't know about Best of Marcus Welby M.D., as the Best Of First Season
collection seems to be unique to Mill Creek, as it wasn't a reissue of an
earlier release. But I can make a guess that Mill Creek's policy to cram 10
hours of material onto 2 DVDs results in typical Mill Creek bad quality.

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