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arts / rec.arts.tv / Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.suzeeq
+* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
|`* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
| `* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
|  `* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
|   `* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
|    `* Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
|     `- Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig
`- Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.moviePig

1
Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

<t3s8c7$17ip5$1@solani.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=142071&group=rec.arts.tv#142071

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From: suz...@imbris.com (suzeeq)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:39:04 -0700
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 by: suzeeq - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:39 UTC

On 4/21/2022 10:28 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:
> On 2022-04-21 16:36:46 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2022-04-21 03:04:58 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-04-21 02:45:36 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>>>>> A Friend wrote:
>>>>>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Ron Filipkowski
>>>>>>>> @RonFilipkowski
>>
>>>>>>>> Marge continues to rage: "They're actually putting me on the
>>>>>>>> witness
>>>>>>>> stand on Friday. I am the first Republican member of Congress
>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>> going to be forced to take the witness stand under oath and defend
>>>>>>>> myself .. I cannot believe I'm being forced to do this."
>>
>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1516820275899379731
>>
>>>>>>> Perjury charges will be coming unless she takes the Fifth.
>>
>>>>>> She's in big trouble. Voters in Georgia are trying to disqualify her
>>>>>> under the 14th Amendment Section 3.
>>
>>>>>>     No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or
>>>>>>     elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office,
>>>>>>     civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,
>>>>>>     who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress,
>>>>>>     or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any
>>>>>>     State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any
>>>>>>     State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall
>>>>>>     have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or
>>>>>>     given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may,
>>>>>>     by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
>>
>>>>> Which is so outrageously unconstitutional that even you should be
>>>>> disgusted by it, Adam.
>>
>>>>> Unless your "constitutional fidelity" is situationally dependent.
>>
>>>> Must I be disgusted just because I've pointed out something that's
>>>> going
>>>> on? I haven't bothered to read about the accusations against her with
>>>> respect to her participation in the alleged insurrection.
>>
>>>> btw, you must have missed that I had opposed impeaching Trump, so it's
>>>> pretty obvious that you remember only what you want to when you want to
>>>> make a baseless accusation.
>>
>>> I notice you didn't answer the question.
>>
>> You didn't ask me a question. You told me what my proper reaction must
>> be. I stated that I hadn't read the accusations against her for what her
>> participation in the insurrection was and haven't formed an opinion as
>> to whether the accusations against her are outrageous.
>>
>> However, if her participation in the insurrection is proven, then
>> she's subject to Section 3 and must be disqualified from office under
>> the Constitution.
>
> Well, you've failed, because it wasn't an "insurrection" (it was a
> "riot")

It was a failed insurrection, not just a riot.

> Also a similar frivilous lawsuit based on this was already
> dismissed against Cawthorn in BC (and FTR, I want him gone from Congress
> too).
>
> It's interesting that you aren't alarmed at further attempts by the Left
> to use extra-constitutional means to remove people they don't like from
> office. Apparently elections aren't good enough for them.
>
> If you seriously can't see what an incredibly dangerous slippery slope
> this is, then I seriously don't know what to tell you.
>

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

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From: pwall...@moviepig.com (moviePig)
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 by: moviePig - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 20:02 UTC

On 4/21/2022 2:39 PM, suzeeq wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 10:28 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:
>> On 2022-04-21 16:36:46 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>
>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-21 03:04:58 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-21 02:45:36 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>>>>>> A Friend wrote:
>>>>>>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron Filipkowski
>>>>>>>>> @RonFilipkowski
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marge continues to rage: "They're actually putting me on the
>>>>>>>>> witness
>>>>>>>>> stand on Friday. I am the first Republican member of Congress
>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>> going to be forced to take the witness stand under oath and defend
>>>>>>>>> myself .. I cannot believe I'm being forced to do this."
>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1516820275899379731
>>>
>>>>>>>> Perjury charges will be coming unless she takes the Fifth.
>>>
>>>>>>> She's in big trouble. Voters in Georgia are trying to disqualify her
>>>>>>> under the 14th Amendment Section 3.
>>>
>>>>>>>     No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or
>>>>>>>     elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office,
>>>>>>>     civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,
>>>>>>>     who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress,
>>>>>>>     or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any
>>>>>>>     State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any
>>>>>>>     State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall
>>>>>>>     have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or
>>>>>>>     given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may,
>>>>>>>     by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
>>>
>>>>>> Which is so outrageously unconstitutional that even you should be
>>>>>> disgusted by it, Adam.
>>>
>>>>>> Unless your "constitutional fidelity" is situationally dependent.
>>>
>>>>> Must I be disgusted just because I've pointed out something that's
>>>>> going
>>>>> on? I haven't bothered to read about the accusations against her with
>>>>> respect to her participation in the alleged insurrection.
>>>
>>>>> btw, you must have missed that I had opposed impeaching Trump, so it's
>>>>> pretty obvious that you remember only what you want to when you
>>>>> want to
>>>>> make a baseless accusation.
>>>
>>>> I notice you didn't answer the question.
>>>
>>> You didn't ask me a question. You told me what my proper reaction must
>>> be. I stated that I hadn't read the accusations against her for what her
>>> participation in the insurrection was and haven't formed an opinion as
>>> to whether the accusations against her are outrageous.
>>>
>>> However, if her participation in the insurrection is proven, then
>>> she's subject to Section 3 and must be disqualified from office under
>>> the Constitution.
>>
>> Well, you've failed, because it wasn't an "insurrection" (it was a
>> "riot")
>
> It was a failed insurrection, not just a riot.
> ...

Nah, it was just a silly prank that had Pence seeking counsel about his
rights and duties regarding de-certifying the election. College hijinx.

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

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From: pwall...@moviepig.com (moviePig)
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 by: moviePig - Thu, 21 Apr 2022 22:02 UTC

On 4/21/2022 4:06 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <%Ki8K.369956$f2a5.238271@fx48.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/21/2022 2:39 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2022 10:28 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:
>
>>>> Well, you've failed, because it wasn't an "insurrection" (it was a
>>>> "riot")
>>>
>>> It was a failed insurrection, not just a riot.
>
>> Nah, it was just a silly prank that had Pence seeking counsel about his
>> rights and duties regarding de-certifying the election. College hijinx.
>
> Sure, they were hijinx the same way that CHAZ was 'mostly peaceful'.

Are you saying that CHAZ's goal was the overthrow of the city govt.?

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

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 by: moviePig - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 02:57 UTC

On 4/21/2022 7:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <210420221840467517%nope@noway.com>,
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <7lm36hlupgr3mi7bjidj4rovsu7vl87pfp@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:02:06 -0400, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Sure, they were hijinx the same way that CHAZ was 'mostly peaceful'.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying that CHAZ's goal was the overthrow of the city govt.?
>>>
>>> They were talking about seceding both from the City of Seattle AND the
>>> State of Washington.
>>>
>>> Doing that without an electoral mandate (or even with it) very much
>>> DOES advocate for the overthrow of the duly elected State and Local
>>> governments.
>>>
>>> Which is why I am horrified that the Governor and Mayor were so
>>> complacent.
>
>> They probably decided that getting overwrought over something that was
>> never, ever going to happen was the smart thing to do.
>
> Well, the January 6th rioters' goals were never, ever going to happen,
> either, but look how overwrought some still are over that a year and a
> half later.

The operative question would seem to be whether the perpetrators
*believed* their chances were significant. And if, indeed, the CHAZ
rioters so believed (as I think they didn't, unlike the DC rioters),
then, yeah, they're seditious.

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

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 by: moviePig - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:31 UTC

On 4/21/2022 11:29 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Apr 21, 2022 at 7:57:59 PM PDT, "moviePig" <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/21/2022 7:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <210420221840467517%nope@noway.com>,
>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <7lm36hlupgr3mi7bjidj4rovsu7vl87pfp@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
>>>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:02:06 -0400, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure, they were hijinx the same way that CHAZ was 'mostly peaceful'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying that CHAZ's goal was the overthrow of the city govt.?
>>>>>
>>>>> They were talking about seceding both from the City of Seattle AND the
>>>>> State of Washington.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doing that without an electoral mandate (or even with it) very much
>>>>> DOES advocate for the overthrow of the duly elected State and Local
>>>>> governments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is why I am horrified that the Governor and Mayor were so
>>>>> complacent.
>>>
>>>> They probably decided that getting overwrought over something that was
>>>> never, ever going to happen was the smart thing to do.
>>>
>>> Well, the January 6th rioters' goals were never, ever going to happen,
>>> either, but look how overwrought some still are over that a year and a
>>> half later.
>>
>> The operative question would seem to be whether the perpetrators
>> *believed* their chances were significant. And if, indeed, the CHAZ
>> rioters so believed (as I think they didn't, unlike the DC rioters),
>> then, yeah, they're seditious.
>
> The crime of sedition has no element that the perpetrator must believe in
> his/her chances of success.

Does it, like any other crime, have an element of intent?

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

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 by: moviePig - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:03 UTC

On 4/21/2022 2:39 PM, suzeeq wrote:
> On 4/21/2022 10:28 AM, Ian J. Ball wrote:
>> On 2022-04-21 16:36:46 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>
>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-04-21 03:04:58 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-04-21 02:45:36 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>>>>>> A Friend wrote:
>>>>>>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron Filipkowski
>>>>>>>>> @RonFilipkowski
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marge continues to rage: "They're actually putting me on the
>>>>>>>>> witness
>>>>>>>>> stand on Friday. I am the first Republican member of Congress
>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>> going to be forced to take the witness stand under oath and defend
>>>>>>>>> myself .. I cannot believe I'm being forced to do this."
>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1516820275899379731
>>>
>>>>>>>> Perjury charges will be coming unless she takes the Fifth.
>>>
>>>>>>> She's in big trouble. Voters in Georgia are trying to disqualify her
>>>>>>> under the 14th Amendment Section 3.
>>>
>>>>>>>     No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or
>>>>>>>     elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office,
>>>>>>>     civil or military, under the United States, or under any State,
>>>>>>>     who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress,
>>>>>>>     or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any
>>>>>>>     State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any
>>>>>>>     State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall
>>>>>>>     have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or
>>>>>>>     given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may,
>>>>>>>     by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
>>>
>>>>>> Which is so outrageously unconstitutional that even you should be
>>>>>> disgusted by it, Adam.
>>>
>>>>>> Unless your "constitutional fidelity" is situationally dependent.
>>>
>>>>> Must I be disgusted just because I've pointed out something that's
>>>>> going
>>>>> on? I haven't bothered to read about the accusations against her with
>>>>> respect to her participation in the alleged insurrection.
>>>
>>>>> btw, you must have missed that I had opposed impeaching Trump, so it's
>>>>> pretty obvious that you remember only what you want to when you
>>>>> want to
>>>>> make a baseless accusation.
>>>
>>>> I notice you didn't answer the question.
>>>
>>> You didn't ask me a question. You told me what my proper reaction must
>>> be. I stated that I hadn't read the accusations against her for what her
>>> participation in the insurrection was and haven't formed an opinion as
>>> to whether the accusations against her are outrageous.
>>>
>>> However, if her participation in the insurrection is proven, then
>>> she's subject to Section 3 and must be disqualified from office under
>>> the Constitution.
>>
>> Well, you've failed, because it wasn't an "insurrection" (it was a
>> "riot")
>
> It was a failed insurrection, not just a riot.
> ...

Btw, for any responsible person who seriously doubts the
characterization of a 'failed insurrection', Politico just this morning
happens to have revisited, from that very perspective, the events around
Jan. 6 (offered here to those who welcome challenges to their belief):


https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-nightly/2022/04/21/jan-6-committees-bombshells-hiding-in-plain-sight-00026869

( https://tinyurl.com/2p83jtc3 )

Excerpt:

After the Electoral College voted on Dec. 14, 2020, Trump turned
toward Jan. 6, the day Congress was due to formally count electors.
Eastman helped devise a strategy that was so devoid of legal merit, a
federal judge has since ruled that it “likely” amounts to a criminal
attempt to obstruct congressional proceedings. That strategy relied on
creating an artificial conflict — dueling slates of presidential
electors. Though no state legislatures had acted by the time Jan. 6
arrived, pro-Trump activists nevertheless met in seven state capitals
and held mock elector ceremonies intended to create just such a conflict.
Trump and Eastman then began working on Pence, who was required to
preside over the Jan. 6 session. If he would legitimize the conflict and
then take the legally dubious step to recess the session for 10 days it
just might provide the opening for state legislatures to act and rescind
Biden’s election.

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

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<atropos-B7DF00.16341721042022@news.giganews.com>
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From: pwall...@moviepig.com (moviePig)
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 by: moviePig - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 20:48 UTC

On 4/22/2022 3:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <z%y8K.863963$aT3.742947@fx09.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/21/2022 11:29 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> On Apr 21, 2022 at 7:57:59 PM PDT, "moviePig" <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <210420221840467517%nope@noway.com>,
>>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <7lm36hlupgr3mi7bjidj4rovsu7vl87pfp@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
>>>>>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:02:06 -0400, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sure, they were hijinx the same way that CHAZ was 'mostly peaceful'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you saying that CHAZ's goal was the overthrow of the city govt.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They were talking about seceding both from the City of Seattle AND the
>>>>>>> State of Washington.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doing that without an electoral mandate (or even with it) very much
>>>>>>> DOES advocate for the overthrow of the duly elected State and Local
>>>>>>> governments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which is why I am horrified that the Governor and Mayor were so
>>>>>>> complacent.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They probably decided that getting overwrought over something that was
>>>>>> never, ever going to happen was the smart thing to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, the January 6th rioters' goals were never, ever going to happen,
>>>>> either, but look how overwrought some still are over that a year and a
>>>>> half later.
>>>>
>>>> The operative question would seem to be whether the perpetrators
>>>> *believed* their chances were significant. And if, indeed, the CHAZ
>>>> rioters so believed (as I think they didn't, unlike the DC rioters),
>>>> then, yeah, they're seditious.
>>>
>>> The crime of sedition has no element that the perpetrator must believe in
>>> his/her chances of success.
>>
>> Does it, like any other crime, have an element of intent?
>
> There's a [difference] between intent and belief of success.

However, I, as a juror, might reason that, e.g., there could be no
intent of success where success was believed impossible.

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

<26F8K.363146$Gojc.120819@fx99.iad>

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From: pwall...@moviepig.com (moviePig)
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 by: moviePig - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 21:28 UTC

On 4/22/2022 4:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <_wE8K.608509$7F2.150978@fx12.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/22/2022 3:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <z%y8K.863963$aT3.742947@fx09.iad>,
>>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/21/2022 11:29 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2022 at 7:57:59 PM PDT, "moviePig" <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <210420221840467517%nope@noway.com>,
>>>>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <7lm36hlupgr3mi7bjidj4rovsu7vl87pfp@4ax.com>, The Horny
>>>>>>>> Goat
>>>>>>>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:02:06 -0400, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, they were hijinx the same way that CHAZ was 'mostly
>>>>>>>>>>> peaceful'.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying that CHAZ's goal was the overthrow of the city govt.?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They were talking about seceding both from the City of Seattle AND
>>>>>>>>> the State of Washington.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doing that without an electoral mandate (or even with it) very much
>>>>>>>>> DOES advocate for the overthrow of the duly elected State and Local
>>>>>>>>> governments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which is why I am horrified that the Governor and Mayor were so
>>>>>>>>> complacent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They probably decided that getting overwrought over something that was
>>>>>>>> never, ever going to happen was the smart thing to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, the January 6th rioters' goals were never, ever going to happen,
>>>>>>> either, but look how overwrought some still are over that a year and a
>>>>>>> half later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The operative question would seem to be whether the perpetrators
>>>>>> *believed* their chances were significant. And if, indeed, the CHAZ
>>>>>> rioters so believed (as I think they didn't, unlike the DC rioters),
>>>>>> then, yeah, they're seditious.
>>>>>
>>>>> The crime of sedition has no element that the perpetrator must believe
>>>>> in his/her chances of success.
>>>>
>>>> Does it, like any other crime, have an element of intent?
>>>
>>> There's a [difference] between intent and belief of success.
>>
>> However, I, as a juror, might reason that, e.g., there could be no
>> intent of success where success was believed impossible.
>
> Which wouldn't be relevant because intent of success also isn't an
> element of the crime of sedition.
>
> The intent element only refers to whether the person intended to commit
> the acts in question, not whether they intended them to be successful or
> believed they would be successful.

So, if they're innocent of 'sedition', then let's go with 'treason'...

Re: Marjorie Taylor Greene is having some problems.

<IMF8K.6626$6j9b.234@fx36.iad>

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 by: moviePig - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:13 UTC

On 4/22/2022 5:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <26F8K.363146$Gojc.120819@fx99.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 4/22/2022 4:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <_wE8K.608509$7F2.150978@fx12.iad>,
>>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/22/2022 3:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <z%y8K.863963$aT3.742947@fx09.iad>,
>>>>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 11:29 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Apr 21, 2022 at 7:57:59 PM PDT, "moviePig" <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2022 7:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <210420221840467517%nope@noway.com>,
>>>>>>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In article <7lm36hlupgr3mi7bjidj4rovsu7vl87pfp@4ax.com>, The Horny
>>>>>>>>>> Goat
>>>>>>>>>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:02:06 -0400, moviePig
>>>>>>>>>>> <pwallace@moviepig.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, they were hijinx the same way that CHAZ was 'mostly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> peaceful'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying that CHAZ's goal was the overthrow of the city
>>>>>>>>>>>> govt.?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They were talking about seceding both from the City of Seattle AND
>>>>>>>>>>> the State of Washington.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Doing that without an electoral mandate (or even with it) very much
>>>>>>>>>>> DOES advocate for the overthrow of the duly elected State and Local
>>>>>>>>>>> governments.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which is why I am horrified that the Governor and Mayor were so
>>>>>>>>>>> complacent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They probably decided that getting overwrought over something that
>>>>>>>>>> was never, ever going to happen was the smart thing to do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, the January 6th rioters' goals were never, ever going to
>>>>>>>>> happen, either, but look how overwrought some still are over that
>>>>>>>>> a year and a half later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The operative question would seem to be whether the perpetrators
>>>>>>>> *believed* their chances were significant. And if, indeed, the CHAZ
>>>>>>>> rioters so believed (as I think they didn't, unlike the DC rioters),
>>>>>>>> then, yeah, they're seditious.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The crime of sedition has no element that the perpetrator must believe
>>>>>>> in his/her chances of success.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does it, like any other crime, have an element of intent?
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a [difference] between intent and belief of success.
>>>>
>>>> However, I, as a juror, might reason that, e.g., there could be no
>>>> intent of success where success was believed impossible.
>>>
>>> Which wouldn't be relevant because intent of success also isn't an
>>> element of the crime of sedition.
>>>
>>> The intent element only refers to whether the person intended to commit
>>> the acts in question, not whether they intended them to be successful or
>>> believed they would be successful.
>>
>> So, if they're innocent of 'sedition', then let's go with 'treason'...
>
> Treason is defined in the Constitution as levying war against the United
> States or in adhering to its enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
>
> Whatever that mob did on January 6th, they weren't doing it in service
> to a declared enemy of the United States, so treason is off the table.

So, it would appear we're back where we began, i.e., 'insurrection'...

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