On 12/4/19 15:46, Amos Nomore wrote:
> On 2019-11-29 09:24:37 +0000, Ed Chapin said:
>
>> On 10/5/19 9:53 PM, Band Beyond You wrote:
>>> Ed Chapin <edchapin01@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GfYV3db0aM
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thumbs up, Ed! How ya doin’?
>>>
>>
>> As RMGD has come to be populated largely by trolls, antagonists, and a
>> variety of generally unpleasant cyberstalking federales, I don't tend
>> to hang here.  I was solely stopping by to pay musical respects to RH,
>> but since you asked . . .
>>
>> A couple of months ago, I took my mother to the hospital for a routine
>> checkup and she took a tumble near the front door (she's had
>> ambulatory issues for years).  As I approached to help her up, I
>> noticed a nearby woman about my age with a rather smarmy, smirky look
>> on her face, which seemed odd given what had just transpired in front
>> of her.
>>
>> She was standing with another woman, who appeared old enough to be her
>> mother, so my first thought was that maybe she had undergone a similar
>> experience and could commiserate.  My second thought was "Do I know
>> this person?," as I then considered that her expression appeared to
>> indicate familiarity with me.
>>
>> I took a good look at her face, scanned her hair and body, and my
>> thoughts proceeded thusly:
>>
>>
>>
>> "Oh, that's C." (C is somebody I worked with years ago, who lives in
>> that town, and who has always treated me with a bit of disdain.)
>>
>> "No, that's not C.  That's C's daughter." (C's daughter has the same
>> blond hair and general build.)
>>
>> "No, that's not C's daughter.  C's daughter is too young.  That's E.
>> (E is a medical professional who works near that complex and who has
>> also treated me with a bit of reservation.)
>>
>> "No, that's not E. E is taller with darker hair.  That's Dr. S."
>> (Doctor S. works near that complex and has the same general
>> height/hair color.)
>>
>>
>> This woman then spoke to me, indicating that my mother fell
>> gracefully, and my mother reaffirmed that she wasn't badly hurt. I
>> decided at that point it was Dr. S., and continued to assist my
>> mother.  After getting my mother to her feet, with the help of a male
>> bystander, this woman walked off and spoke again, reaffirming that her
>> fall had been a graceful one.  At that point, I decided . . .
>>
>>
>> "No, that's not Dr. S.  That's V."  (This was quite disconcerting to
>> me, as V is somebody I already wrote to once (incorrectly) trying to
>> track down another woman in another incident of uncertain identity.
>>
>> As she walked off, I was trying to decide whether or not to use that
>> name.  I decided against it (right call), and she walked off while my
>> head spun.  I pondered the voice over the next few days and knew it
>> sounded familiar from somewhere, and then, several days later . . .
>>
>>
>> "Oh! That was B."  (B is someone I talked with a lot in a class I took
>> years ago, and over the telephone a few times.  She also used the word
>> "gracefully" in our conversations more that once and lives a few miles
>> from hospital, or did 25 years ago.)
>>
>>
>> So now, B thinks I either recognized her and didn't really acknowledge
>> her or didn't recognize her at all.  Such is my life.
>>
>>
>>
>> It wouldn't be bit deal if it was a one-off, but I have played out
>> scenarios like this dozens/hundreds of times throughout life, going
>> back to elementary school.  A few years ago, some short dark-haired
>> woman got so mad I didn't recognize her that she threatened to smack
>> me with a baseball bat.  I tried to figure out, tease out, who she
>> was, so that I could apologize.  Ultimately, I ended up writing to the
>> wrong woman 4 times, and calling several others trying to resolve it.
>>
>> One of the people I called to apologize to was an ex-student, one for
>> whom I wrote a grad school recommendation, and who now works as a
>> teacher in the same small town I live in.  Trust me, this woman was a
>> bit freaked out to have me call her 15 years later out of the blue.
>> "IT WASN'T ME," she said.  I always look at the bright side, though,
>> as it gave me an opportunity to congratulate her on her achievements.
>>
>>
>> The upshot is this:  I'm prosopagnosic--one of the 2% of the
>> population that doesn't recognize people via a facial processing unit
>> in the right fusiform gyrus fold part of the brain.  I recognize
>> people via a mix of face, location, body shape, hair, posture, gait,
>> and voice.  Unless I am currently interacting with you on a regular
>> basis, the face often needs additional context to incite recognition.
>>
>> This condition has only been documented to be as prevalent as it is in
>> the last few years, and it is blowing quite a few minds.  98% of the
>> population will likely never understand, because they've never been in
>> that particular cave, but there ya go . . .
>>
>> As somebody trained in the social sciences, I get a bit of an extra
>> chuckle out of it, as this condition certainly has the potential to
>> present a challenge to some social constructionist models of human
>> behavior :-)
>>
>> To any good folks left here, carry on.
>
> It's interesting how much variation exists in how individuals perceive
> reality.
>
> I have difficulty visualizing things in my "mind's eye", a condition
> known as aphantasia which occurs in a small percentage of the general
> population.  I had always assumed that people use their visual
> imagination similarly to my own but became suspicious that I was
> different than most after being guided into hypnosis via closed-eye
> visual imagery, which I couldn't really grasp.  I asked around amongst
> friends and learned that some of them could actually conjure up
> closed-eye (and sometimes even open-eye) photographic mental images at
> will and that most of the others had some capacity to "see" mental
> images without much effort.  I just see black but am not an extreme case
> in that I don't have to rely on non-sensory or linguistic memory to
> describe an object or scenario in my imagination like some people with
> complete aphantasia need to do.
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-the-minds-eye-is-blind1/
>
> I dream vividly and in color and have had very detailed and intense
> closed-eye visuals on psychedelics.  I'm extremely observant and
> sensitive to sensory input most of the time and have no difficulty
> planning and imagining outcomes, etc., but I simply cannot (or am barely
> able to) "see" these things in my mind's eye.
>
> I kind of wish I'd never heard about this phenomenon because I feel
> that, to some degree, I'm missing out on an aspect of living that the
> majority of people take for granted.  Though I don't have prosopagnosia,
> I empathize with you and your ability to cope with and adapt to this
> peculiar mode of experiencing the world around and within you.
>
> Be well and let us know how you're doing when you feel like it.
>

Thank you, especially coming from one who has personally sensed how
potentially wide the spectrum of interpretive experience may actually be.

Take some solace if your mind's ear works, as being able to listen to
favorite passages at will is quite handy at times.

Many days, the prosopagnosia doesn't bother me at all.  A quick review
of the literature will reveal that many prosopagnosics are very good at
reading other contextual clues surrounding the face. As long as you see
people in expected situations, it is quite likely that you will
recognize them based largely on other than facial cues--and sometimes
even on facial clues if there is a distinctive feature (mole, crooked
nose, etc.).

This type of recognition, however occurs using different parts of the
brain than the super hi-def facial processing center used by the 98% of
the population with normal facial recognition skills. And it is not an
all-or-nothing thing, either, as some people appear to have greater
recognition deficits than others.  I tend to be an optimist, and for the
record, I think I recognize most people most of the time.