https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/06/viktor-orban-cpac-far-right-us-trump

Viktor Orbán turns Texas conference into transatlantic far-right love-in

On 8/6/2022 6:39 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/06/viktor-orban-cpac-far-right-us-trump
>>
>> Viktor Orbán turns Texas conference into transatlantic far-right love-in
>
> There are few great leaders. He's on.

He's on what, the job of fellating Trump?

India's Modi is another.
> There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.

"Our" would be right wing assholes? You're correct on that count!

RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:

>>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/06/viktor-orban-cpac-far-right-us-trump

>>Viktor Orban turns Texas conference into transatlantic far-right love-in

>There are few great leaders. He's on. India's Modi is another.

You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
instead of a secular state, do you?

>There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.

In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
against the minority.

Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?

On 2022-08-09 12:47 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/06/viktor-orban-cpac-far-right-us-trump
>
>>> Viktor Orban turns Texas conference into transatlantic far-right love-in
>
>> There are few great leaders. He's on. India's Modi is another.
>
> You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
> instead of a secular state, do you?
>
>> There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.
>
> In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
> against the minority.
>
> Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
> must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?

It's already been done: the religion is "progressivism". Opponents of
the state religion aren't being arrested en masse - yet! - but they are
already being ignored and demonized and the laws that will justify
fining, de-platforming and arresting them are already before Parliament.
They've already tried a pilot project that involved freezing bank
accounts of anyone supporting the Freedom Convoy, seizing the
participants assets that allow them to make a living - their trucks -
and the show trials of the ringleaders are pending while several of them
languish in jail.

--
Rhino

On 8/9/2022 8:47 AM, Rhino wrote:
> On 2022-08-09 12:47 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/06/viktor-orban-cpac-far-right-us-trump
>>>>
>>
>>>> Viktor Orban turns Texas conference into transatlantic far-right
>>>> love-in
>>
>>> There are few great leaders. He's on.  India's Modi is another.
>>
>> You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
>> instead of a secular state, do you?
>>
>>> There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest
>>> threat.
>>
>> In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>> against the minority.
>>
>> Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
>> must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?
>
> It's already been done: the religion is "progressivism".

Moronic shitbag alert.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:47:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
>instead of a secular state, do you?

Like THAT really worked out well in 1947-48 right??

>>There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.
>
>In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>against the minority.
>
>Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
>must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?

As long as events like Charlie Hebdo get described as 'extremism'
rather than 'criminal' 'terrorist' and 'fanaticism' and public opinion
polls in relatively developed places in the Arab world like Egypt
approve of such violence with 70% margins how can you expect people in
Western democracies to be fine with importing people from these
countries?

I'm all for living in peace with my neighbors but are they?

This is the sort of concern that drives folks like Orban and Modi.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 09:47:30 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>It's already been done: the religion is "progressivism". Opponents of
>the state religion aren't being arrested en masse - yet! - but they are
>already being ignored and demonized and the laws that will justify
>fining, de-platforming and arresting them are already before Parliament.
>They've already tried a pilot project that involved freezing bank
>accounts of anyone supporting the Freedom Convoy, seizing the
>participants assets that allow them to make a living - their trucks -
>and the show trials of the ringleaders are pending while several of them
>languish in jail.

No question some of the convoy ringleaders are being denied bail when
many garden variety (but far more violent - but less annoying to the
likes of Justin Trudeau) get very quick bail.

No question the protesters went over the line - but far less so than
the riots in places like Minneapolis, Portland etc in the last couple
of years.

On 2022-08-09 1:01 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 09:47:30 -0400, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>> It's already been done: the religion is "progressivism". Opponents of
>> the state religion aren't being arrested en masse - yet! - but they are
>> already being ignored and demonized and the laws that will justify
>> fining, de-platforming and arresting them are already before Parliament.
>> They've already tried a pilot project that involved freezing bank
>> accounts of anyone supporting the Freedom Convoy, seizing the
>> participants assets that allow them to make a living - their trucks -
>> and the show trials of the ringleaders are pending while several of them
>> languish in jail.
>
> No question some of the convoy ringleaders are being denied bail when
> many garden variety (but far more violent - but less annoying to the
> likes of Justin Trudeau) get very quick bail.
>
Speaking of the pipeline protestors what *is* the status of the
pipelines? I remember Trudeau buying Kinder-Morgan with $5 billion tax
dollars when they were thinking of pulling out of the project due to all
the hassles but I have heard precious little on that pipeline since. Did
he buy it just to compensate Kinder-Morgan but then put it in the deep
freeze to stay consistent with his climate agenda or is construction
proceeding? If the latter, when are they projected to finish and how
does that compare to the original plan? Am I just cynical or are the
violent protests against the pipeline designed to explain why the damned
thing isn't done yet after all these years of construction?

> No question the protesters went over the line - but far less so than
> the riots in places like Minneapolis, Portland etc in the last couple
> of years.

--
Rhino

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:47:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:

>>You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
>>instead of a secular state, do you?

>Like THAT really worked out well in 1947-48 right??

That population displacement had to be significantly larger than the
population displaced as the Soviet army advanced across central Europe
forcing Poles and Germans and plenty of others westward, espcially since
New Poland was largely carved out of pre-war Germany, and Old Poland
largely ended up forcibly annexed into the USSR.

But I've never looked it up.

>>>There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.

>>In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>>against the minority.

>>Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
>>must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?

You cut the quote of Rich praising Modi. I was pointing out that for two
decades, Modi was part of a political movement that deliberately stirred
up Hindu resentment of Muslims. Considering that despite the partition
and forced population resettlement, 1/3 of India's population is still
Muslim, that's a massive number of people to discriminate against.

>As long as events like Charlie Hebdo get described as 'extremism'
>rather than 'criminal' 'terrorist' and 'fanaticism' and public opinion
>polls in relatively developed places in the Arab world like Egypt
>approve of such violence with 70% margins how can you expect people in
>Western democracies to be fine with importing people from these
>countries?

>I'm all for living in peace with my neighbors but are they?

>This is the sort of concern that drives folks like Orban and Modi.

I wasn't addressing immigration. This has nothing to do with the comment
I made to Rich.

On 2022-08-09 1:41 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>> Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:47:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
>>> instead of a secular state, do you?
>
>> Like THAT really worked out well in 1947-48 right??
>
> That population displacement had to be significantly larger than the
> population displaced as the Soviet army advanced across central Europe
> forcing Poles and Germans and plenty of others westward, espcially since
> New Poland was largely carved out of pre-war Germany, and Old Poland
> largely ended up forcibly annexed into the USSR.
>
> But I've never looked it up.
>
I think "largely" may be something of an exaggeration. There is no doubt
that the Soviet Union kept the (roughly) half of Poland that they
obtained via the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in August of 1939 after the war
ended. I believe this land is divided between Belarus and Ukraine now.
As you probably remember, the Soviet Union consisted of 15 republics
that were, at least in theory, semi-sovereign although not really in
practice until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. I *think* I read that
shortly after 1945, Russia took some land from the eastern sides of
Belarus and Ukraine to offset the land that they acquired from Poland
but I may be mistaken about that. In addition, Stalin ensured that
Poland, which was already effectively a Soviet satellite, was
"compensated" for the land the Soviets took in Poland's east by a chunk
of eastern Germany that was roughly 200 km in width. This was territory
that had been German for centuries. In essence, pre-war Poland was moved
200 km west of where it had been before 1939. Stalin basically got a
substantially bigger buffer between his borders and Germany.

The last time I was in Berlin, I was surprised to learn that I was only
30 km from the Polish border. Historically, the Polish border was more
like 230 km away but the post-WWII border "adjustments" changed all that.

>>>> There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.
>
>>> In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>>> against the minority.
>
>>> Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
>>> must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?
>
> You cut the quote of Rich praising Modi. I was pointing out that for two
> decades, Modi was part of a political movement that deliberately stirred
> up Hindu resentment of Muslims. Considering that despite the partition
> and forced population resettlement, 1/3 of India's population is still
> Muslim, that's a massive number of people to discriminate against.
>
Excellent point. Most people hearing about the partition in 1947 would
assume that it ended with all of the Muslims in Pakistan and all of the
Hindus in India but a LOT of the Muslims stayed in India. (Some Hindus
stayed on in Pakistan but today are very few in number.)

Mind you, most of those same people would be unaware of the staggering
levels of violence during the partition. Estimates vary from 200,000 to
2 million people dying in this period due to intercommunal violence.
They might also be surprised to find that it was essentially a three-way
battle as Hindus committed violence against Muslims and vice versa and
both groups fought Sikhs.

Even today, the de facto borders differ from the legal borders
established at the time of partition. Several wars have been fought
between India and Pakistan as each seeks to get all the territory it
claims. (Then there are border disputes between India and China which
have also resulted in wars and skirmishes but that's a separate can of
worms.)

>> As long as events like Charlie Hebdo get described as 'extremism'
>> rather than 'criminal' 'terrorist' and 'fanaticism' and public opinion
>> polls in relatively developed places in the Arab world like Egypt
>> approve of such violence with 70% margins how can you expect people in
>> Western democracies to be fine with importing people from these
>> countries?
>
>> I'm all for living in peace with my neighbors but are they?
>
>> This is the sort of concern that drives folks like Orban and Modi.
>
> I wasn't addressing immigration. This has nothing to do with the comment
> I made to Rich.

--
Rhino

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 17:41:48 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>Tue, 9 Aug 2022 04:47:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
>>>instead of a secular state, do you?
>
>>Like THAT really worked out well in 1947-48 right??
>
>That population displacement had to be significantly larger than the
>population displaced as the Soviet army advanced across central Europe
>forcing Poles and Germans and plenty of others westward, espcially since
>New Poland was largely carved out of pre-war Germany, and Old Poland
>largely ended up forcibly annexed into the USSR.
>
>But I've never looked it up.

I don't have a cite for you but both the Indian/Pakistani locations
(1947-48 - which was the forced relocation I was thinking of) and the
forced expulsion of Germans from the areas lost to Germany after 1945
were in the 7-10 million range.

>>>>There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.
>
>>>In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>>>against the minority.
>
>>>Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
>>>must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?
>
>You cut the quote of Rich praising Modi. I was pointing out that for two
>decades, Modi was part of a political movement that deliberately stirred
>up Hindu resentment of Muslims. Considering that despite the partition
>and forced population resettlement, 1/3 of India's population is still
>Muslim, that's a massive number of people to discriminate against.

He's also not too fond of Sikhs either. 1/3 of India's population
would be 300 million so that's an exaggeration (it's actually a little
over 200 million Muslims in India)

Nevertheless India the 3rd largest Muslim population in the world
(behind Pakistan and Indonesia) That's not an easily ignored small
minority.

>>As long as events like Charlie Hebdo get described as 'extremism'
>>rather than 'criminal' 'terrorist' and 'fanaticism' and public opinion
>>polls in relatively developed places in the Arab world like Egypt
>>approve of such violence with 70% margins how can you expect people in
>>Western democracies to be fine with importing people from these
>>countries?

To me what's shocking is that they did the same poll in various
countries in North America and Europe and while a majority of Muslims
in these countries opposed the Hebdo killings, roughly 30-40% felt
they were justified - that's appalling since it means in Western
countries there are large groups of people who think violence is
warranted to avenge acts they (and they demand the sole right to
decide what is and isn't an insult) consider an insult to their faith.

Which runs counter to the ethos of North America and Europe which says
clearly that no matter what you must live in peace with your
neighbors. And that DOES pose an existential threat to our culture. If
you immigrate to our country and are NOT prepared to live in peace
with those around you and think it's OUR job to conform to your
beliefs you have no place here.

And that DOES need to be clearly stated before immigration status is
given.

>>I'm all for living in peace with my neighbors but are they?
>
>>This is the sort of concern that drives folks like Orban and Modi.
>
>I wasn't addressing immigration. This has nothing to do with the comment
>I made to Rich.

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 14:19:30 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>I think "largely" may be something of an exaggeration. There is no doubt
>that the Soviet Union kept the (roughly) half of Poland that they
>obtained via the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in August of 1939 after the war
>ended. I believe this land is divided between Belarus and Ukraine now.
>As you probably remember, the Soviet Union consisted of 15 republics
>that were, at least in theory, semi-sovereign although not really in
>practice until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. I *think* I read that
>shortly after 1945, Russia took some land from the eastern sides of
>Belarus and Ukraine to offset the land that they acquired from Poland
>but I may be mistaken about that. In addition, Stalin ensured that
>Poland, which was already effectively a Soviet satellite, was
>"compensated" for the land the Soviets took in Poland's east by a chunk
>of eastern Germany that was roughly 200 km in width. This was territory
>that had been German for centuries. In essence, pre-war Poland was moved
>200 km west of where it had been before 1939. Stalin basically got a
>substantially bigger buffer between his borders and Germany.

Yup - my only hesitation in the above is that I don't know about the
'taking a slice' bit but then my father in law's family left eastern
Poland for Canada 6 weeks before the war from a town that was about
10-15 km from what is now the eastern border of Poland - e.g. just
west of the Hitler-Stalin partition line. (Both my daughters have
visited Poland but haven't gone to that part of the country.)

My father-in-law's home town was a town of about 4-5000 before the war
and about 500 today - it's in a region west of Bialystok that was
front and center during the Soviet armored offensive of 1944 so
hopefully the majority of them became refugees and not tractor treads.

Obviously you know the Soviets also took most of East Prussia (I'm not
sure what happened postwar to the section of Lithuania Hitler took in
1939)

Note that in the summer of 1941 the Germans took the lands you
describe as a "substantially bigger buffer" in about two weeks.

>The last time I was in Berlin, I was surprised to learn that I was only
>30 km from the Polish border. Historically, the Polish border was more
>like 230 km away but the post-WWII border "adjustments" changed all that.

It certainly did - and you've probably seen a map comparing 1939
boundaries with 1945.

>>>>> There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.
>>
>>>> In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>>>> against the minority.

In 2015 Stephen Harper was excoriated for the talk of 'barbaric
cultural practices' but there are documented cases of "honor killings"
against daughters who choose unapproved suitors and who reject
arranged marriages.

No question in Britain and America many couples eloped to marry men
not approved by the bride's parents (that was how one of my male
forebears in the direct male line - e.g. same family name as me -
married into a "Mayflower family" 200 years ago) but in our culture
there was never any talk of kiling the couple though disinheriting
wasn't all that rare.

I am not aware of any attacks by the majority against tiny minorities
within minorities who do crimes like this.

I'm currently reading a biography of Alexander Hamilton whose inlaws
didn't initially approve of him though came around later. (Turns out
they had 5 daughters and 4 of them eloped - all but Hamilton's wife!)

Point is elopement used to be common in British and American societies
but you never ever heard of 'honor killing' in Britain or North
America. Disinheritance yes, murder no.

>> You cut the quote of Rich praising Modi. I was pointing out that for two
>> decades, Modi was part of a political movement that deliberately stirred
>> up Hindu resentment of Muslims. Considering that despite the partition
>> and forced population resettlement, 1/3 of India's population is still
>> Muslim, that's a massive number of people to discriminate against.
>>
>Excellent point. Most people hearing about the partition in 1947 would
>assume that it ended with all of the Muslims in Pakistan and all of the
>Hindus in India but a LOT of the Muslims stayed in India. (Some Hindus
>stayed on in Pakistan but today are very few in number.)

I agree most westerners who knew about the Partition would make that
error - though its probably the biggest cultural story of 1947-48.
Since much of India was conquered by Muslims in the 17th and 18th
centuries that meant land was taken for mosques - the difference
between the Indian situation and the Hagia Sophia being of course that
Muslims no longer rule in India and there have been several battles
involving Hindus wanting their former temple space back - particularly
during the IJP's term of office.

>Mind you, most of those same people would be unaware of the staggering
>levels of violence during the partition. Estimates vary from 200,000 to
>2 million people dying in this period due to intercommunal violence.
>They might also be surprised to find that it was essentially a three-way
>battle as Hindus committed violence against Muslims and vice versa and
>both groups fought Sikhs.

And Canada has always been a 'safe haven' for Sikhs to attack India.
This started early on (and included some of the men from the Komagatu
Maru who were refused entrance to Canada and who in our woke era are
being declared heroes) and culminated in the Air India bombings of
1985 which were the biggest terrorist acts involving aircraft before
9/11.

The man who stood trial (and was acquitted after a key witness
perjured himself on the stand - and who was later convicted of perjury
and served several years for it) was recently murdered in Vancouver
under very shady circumstances.

http://cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ripudaman-singh-malik-air-india-bombing-shot-dead-1.6520628

So far lots of rumors and suspicions but no facts that have been made
public.

>Even today, the de facto borders differ from the legal borders
>established at the time of partition. Several wars have been fought
>between India and Pakistan as each seeks to get all the territory it
>claims. (Then there are border disputes between India and China which
>have also resulted in wars and skirmishes but that's a separate can of
>worms.)

Small scale wars were fought between India and Pakistan through much
of the 50s and 60s - so much so that in Nevil Shute's On the Beach
(which featured the extinction of mankind following a nuclear war) the
nuclear exchange that killed mankind wasn't between the US and Soviets
but India and Pakistan (neither of which had nuclear weapons at the
time the novel was written)

>>> As long as events like Charlie Hebdo get described as 'extremism'
>>> rather than 'criminal' 'terrorist' and 'fanaticism' and public opinion
>>> polls in relatively developed places in the Arab world like Egypt
>>> approve of such violence with 70% margins how can you expect people in
>>> Western democracies to be fine with importing people from these
>>> countries?
>>
>>> I'm all for living in peace with my neighbors but are they?
>>
>>> This is the sort of concern that drives folks like Orban and Modi.
>>
>> I wasn't addressing immigration. This has nothing to do with the comment
>> I made to Rich.

I get that - but Rich goes on tangents quite regularly as I'm sure
most regulars in this newsgroup know without having to be told.

Fact is Justin Trudeau has adopted an immigration policy which he
expects to change the political calculus of Canada within the next
decade. 30-somethings like my children are the collateral damage as
the effect of the migrants has been to make Toronto and Vancouver
increasingly unaffordable for housing. I'm pretty sure my daughter
would move out if she had an alternative she felt she could afford.
Her sister has emigrated to the UK for similar reasons.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>. . .

>I agree most westerners who knew about the Partition would make that
>error - though its probably the biggest cultural story of 1947-48.
>Since much of India was conquered by Muslims in the 17th and 18th
>centuries that meant land was taken for mosques - the difference
>between the Indian situation and the Hagia Sophia being of course that
>Muslims no longer rule in India and there have been several battles
>involving Hindus wanting their former temple space back - particularly
>during the IJP's term of office.

You've got to be kidding. Those were all lies to stir up crowds. Most of
it was made up.

>>. . .

On 8/9/2022 10:15 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Tuesday, 9 August 2022 at 00:47:21 UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 6 August 2022 at 14:35:34 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/06/viktor-orban-cpac-far-right-us-trump
>>>> Viktor Orban turns Texas conference into transatlantic far-right love-in
>>> There are few great leaders. He's on. India's Modi is another.
>> You feel there is a great need for India to be a Hindu religious state
>> instead of a secular state, do you?
>>> There are people who recognize violent minorities are our greatest threat.
>> In this case, it's the majority being stirred up to commit violence
>> against the minority.
>>
>> Let's make Canada a state with an established religion that everybody
>> must follow. There couldn't possibly be any repurcussions, right?
>
> If the Sikhs blow up a U.S. airliner, come back to me about this.

The Sikh are far more likely to be murdered by right wing shitbags. Do
you follow the news fuckface?

On 8/10/2022 1:46 AM, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 10 August 2022 at 01:43:46 UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> . . .
>>> I agree most westerners who knew about the Partition would make that
>>> error - though its probably the biggest cultural story of 1947-48.
>>> Since much of India was conquered by Muslims in the 17th and 18th
>>> centuries that meant land was taken for mosques - the difference
>>> between the Indian situation and the Hagia Sophia being of course that
>>> Muslims no longer rule in India and there have been several battles
>>> involving Hindus wanting their former temple space back - particularly
>>> during the IJP's term of office.
>> You've got to be kidding. Those were all lies to stir up crowds. Most of
>> it was made up.
>>
>>>> . . .
>
> British Columbia police released the names of the 11 most dangerous criminals on the loose right now. Of the 11, 8 of them are from the Punjab.
>

Punjab is in both India and Pakistan so you'll have to more specific
than that. Moreover it has never been called "the Punjab" so you're two
for two in looking stupid. How are things going in the Ontario?

On 8/10/2022 1:46 AM, RichA wrote:
> On Wednesday, 10 August 2022 at 01:43:46 UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> . . .
>>> I agree most westerners who knew about the Partition would make that
>>> error - though its probably the biggest cultural story of 1947-48.
>>> Since much of India was conquered by Muslims in the 17th and 18th
>>> centuries that meant land was taken for mosques - the difference
>>> between the Indian situation and the Hagia Sophia being of course that
>>> Muslims no longer rule in India and there have been several battles
>>> involving Hindus wanting their former temple space back - particularly
>>> during the IJP's term of office.
>> You've got to be kidding. Those were all lies to stir up crowds. Most of
>> it was made up.
>>
>>>> . . .
>
> British Columbia police released the names of the 11 most dangerous criminals on the loose right now. Of the 11, 8 of them are from the Punjab.
>

And, unfortunately you're LYING again. Looks like they're all white guys:

https://bc-cb.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=1035&languageId=1&contentId=-1

BC RCMP - Wanted Persons

Right wing idiots might buy the HORSESHIT you're selling but I don't.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:43:42 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>I agree most westerners who knew about the Partition would make that
>>error - though its probably the biggest cultural story of 1947-48.
>>Since much of India was conquered by Muslims in the 17th and 18th
>>centuries that meant land was taken for mosques - the difference
>>between the Indian situation and the Hagia Sophia being of course that
>>Muslims no longer rule in India and there have been several battles
>>involving Hindus wanting their former temple space back - particularly
>>during the IJP's term of office.
>
>You've got to be kidding. Those were all lies to stir up crowds. Most of
>it was made up.
>
>>>. . .
Perhaps - but this was happening before the IJP's term of office -
their "encouragement" made it happen MORE

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:43:42 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
><ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>>. . .
>>
>>>I agree most westerners who knew about the Partition would make that
>>>error - though its probably the biggest cultural story of 1947-48.
>>>Since much of India was conquered by Muslims in the 17th and 18th
>>>centuries that meant land was taken for mosques - the difference
>>>between the Indian situation and the Hagia Sophia being of course that
>>>Muslims no longer rule in India and there have been several battles
>>>involving Hindus wanting their former temple space back - particularly
>>>during the IJP's term of office.
>>
>>You've got to be kidding. Those were all lies to stir up crowds. Most of
>>it was made up.
>>
>>>>. . .
>Perhaps - but this was happening before the IJP's term of office -
>their "encouragement" made it happen MORE

I don't think so. That political party had taken over several Indian
states. Appealing to "Hindu nationalism" seemed to be good politics for
them, hence stirring up mosque burnings.

I never heard of any political party stirring up religious fear and
resentment in such an organized way before the 1990s.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> writes:

> To me what's shocking is that they did the same poll in various
> countries in North America and Europe and while a majority of Muslims
> in these countries opposed the Hebdo killings, roughly 30-40% felt
> they were justified - that's appalling since it means in Western
> countries there are large groups of people who think violence is
> warranted to avenge acts they (and they demand the sole right to
> decide what is and isn't an insult) consider an insult to their faith.
>
> Which runs counter to the ethos of North America and Europe which says
> clearly that no matter what you must live in peace with your
> neighbors. And that DOES pose an existential threat to our culture. If
> you immigrate to our country and are NOT prepared to live in peace
> with those around you and think it's OUR job to conform to your
> beliefs you have no place here.

The number one terrorism threat in the U.S. is domestic white
supremacist/white nationalist/white power groups and their unaffiliated
sympathizers, who mostly identify as Christian (sometimes as the only
true Christians), not immigrants. So far, no Muslim immigrants have
staged an insurrection.

-Micky

Micky DuPree <MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:
>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> writes:

>>To me what's shocking is that they did the same poll in various
>>countries in North America and Europe and while a majority of Muslims
>>in these countries opposed the Hebdo killings, roughly 30-40% felt
>>they were justified - that's appalling since it means in Western
>>countries there are large groups of people who think violence is
>>warranted to avenge acts they (and they demand the sole right to
>>decide what is and isn't an insult) consider an insult to their faith.

>>Which runs counter to the ethos of North America and Europe which says
>>clearly that no matter what you must live in peace with your
>>neighbors. And that DOES pose an existential threat to our culture. If
>>you immigrate to our country and are NOT prepared to live in peace
>>with those around you and think it's OUR job to conform to your
>>beliefs you have no place here.

>The number one terrorism threat in the U.S. is domestic white
>supremacist/white nationalist/white power groups and their unaffiliated
>sympathizers, who mostly identify as Christian (sometimes as the only
>true Christians), not immigrants. So far, no Muslim immigrants have
>staged an insurrection.

They merely committed acts of war on February 26, 1993, and
September 11, 2001.

But let's downplay that because storming the United States Capitol on
January 6, 2021, wasn't a Muslim terrorist plot.

You're an asshole.

On Aug 23, 2022 at 8:44:17 PM PDT, "Micky DuPree" <Micky DuPree> wrote:

> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> writes:
>
>> To me what's shocking is that they did the same poll in various
>> countries in North America and Europe and while a majority of Muslims
>> in these countries opposed the Hebdo killings, roughly 30-40% felt
>> they were justified - that's appalling since it means in Western
>> countries there are large groups of people who think violence is
>> warranted to avenge acts they (and they demand the sole right to
>> decide what is and isn't an insult) consider an insult to their faith.
>>
>> Which runs counter to the ethos of North America and Europe which says
>> clearly that no matter what you must live in peace with your
>> neighbors. And that DOES pose an existential threat to our culture. If
>> you immigrate to our country and are NOT prepared to live in peace
>> with those around you and think it's OUR job to conform to your
>> beliefs you have no place here.
>
> The number one terrorism threat in the U.S. is domestic white
> supremacist/white nationalist/white power groups and their unaffiliated
> sympathizers, who mostly identify as Christian (sometimes as the only
> true Christians), not immigrants. So far, no Muslim immigrants have
> staged an insurrection.

Nah, they just flew hijacked passenger planes into buildings and brought down
a few skyscrapers, immolated several thousand people... but hey, they didn't
put their feet up on Stretch Pelosi's desk, so small potatoes in comparison,
right DuPree?

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2022 at 8:44:17 PM PDT, "Micky DuPree" <Micky DuPree> wrote:
>
>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> writes:
>>
>>> To me what's shocking is that they did the same poll in various
>>> countries in North America and Europe and while a majority of Muslims
>>> in these countries opposed the Hebdo killings, roughly 30-40% felt
>>> they were justified - that's appalling since it means in Western
>>> countries there are large groups of people who think violence is
>>> warranted to avenge acts they (and they demand the sole right to
>>> decide what is and isn't an insult) consider an insult to their faith.
>>>
>>> Which runs counter to the ethos of North America and Europe which says
>>> clearly that no matter what you must live in peace with your
>>> neighbors. And that DOES pose an existential threat to our culture. If
>>> you immigrate to our country and are NOT prepared to live in peace
>>> with those around you and think it's OUR job to conform to your
>>> beliefs you have no place here.
>>
>> The number one terrorism threat in the U.S. is domestic white
>> supremacist/white nationalist/white power groups and their unaffiliated
>> sympathizers, who mostly identify as Christian (sometimes as the only
>> true Christians), not immigrants. So far, no Muslim immigrants have
>> staged an insurrection.
>
> Nah, they just flew hijacked passenger planes into buildings and brought down
a few skyscrapers, immolated several thousand people... but hey, they
didn't
put their feet up on Stretch Pelosi's desk, so small potatoes in
comparison,
right DuPree?
>

They didn’t murder AOC either. Can we charge them for that?

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

MDuPree@theworld.com wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> writes:

>> To me what's shocking is that they did the same poll in various
>> countries in North America and Europe and while a majority of Muslims
>> in these countries opposed the Hebdo killings, roughly 30-40% felt
>> they were justified - that's appalling since it means in Western
>> countries there are large groups of people who think violence is
>> warranted to avenge acts they (and they demand the sole right to
>> decide what is and isn't an insult) consider an insult to their faith.
>>
>> Which runs counter to the ethos of North America and Europe which says
>> clearly that no matter what you must live in peace with your
>> neighbors. And that DOES pose an existential threat to our culture. If
>> you immigrate to our country and are NOT prepared to live in peace
>> with those around you and think it's OUR job to conform to your
>> beliefs you have no place here.
>
>The number one terrorism threat in the U.S. is domestic white
>supremacist/white nationalist/white power groups and their unaffiliated
>sympathizers, who mostly identify as Christian (sometimes as the only
>true Christians), not immigrants. So far, no Muslim immigrants have
>staged an insurrection.

TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

atropos@mac.com wrote:
> "Micky DuPree" <MDuPree@theworld.com> wrote:

>> The number one terrorism threat in the U.S. is domestic white
>> supremacist/white nationalist/white power groups and their unaffiliated
>> sympathizers, who mostly identify as Christian (sometimes as the only
>> true Christians), not immigrants. So far, no Muslim immigrants have
>> staged an insurrection.
>
> Nah, they just flew hijacked passenger planes into buildings and brought
> down a few skyscrapers, immolated several thousand people... but hey,
> they didn't put their feet up on Stretch Pelosi's desk, so small potatoes
> in comparison, right DuPree?

I wouldn't hold my breath; Dupree often replies second-hand at least a
fourtnight later.

--
Let's go Brandon!