An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
pulling the trigger.

The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.

The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
"could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
position.

If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
standard way that a revolver operates.

In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
off."

Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."

The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
Baldwin's claims.

Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
of what prosecutors could do.

"Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
(`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
Office of the Medical Investigator."

"Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."

--
Let's go Brandon!

On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
> pulling the trigger.
>
> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>
> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
> position.
>
> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
> standard way that a revolver operates.
>
> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
> off."
>
> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>
> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
> Baldwin's claims.
>
> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
> of what prosecutors could do.
>
> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>
> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>
Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
a matter for the local/state police?

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
>> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
>> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
>> pulling the trigger.
>>
>> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
>> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
>> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>>
>> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
>> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
>> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
>> position.
>>
>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
>> standard way that a revolver operates.
>>
>> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
>> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
>> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
>> off."
>>
>> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
>> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
>> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
>> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>>
>> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
>> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
>> Baldwin's claims.
>>
>> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
>> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
>> of what prosecutors could do.
>>
>> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
>> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
>> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
>> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
>> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
>> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
>> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
>> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
>> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
>> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>>
>> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
>> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
>> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
>> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
>> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
>> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
>> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>>
>Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
>a matter for the local/state police?

It doesn't sound like an FBI investigation in which they took the lead
on detective work. I see no violation of federalism in calling in outside
forensic investigators.

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
>> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
>> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
>> pulling the trigger.
>>
>> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
>> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
>> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>>
>> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
>> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
>> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
>> position.
>>
>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
>> standard way that a revolver operates.
>>
>> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
>> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
>> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
>> off."
>>
>> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
>> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
>> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
>> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>>
>> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
>> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
>> Baldwin's claims.
>>
>> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
>> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
>> of what prosecutors could do.
>>
>> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
>> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
>> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
>> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
>> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
>> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
>> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
>> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
>> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
>> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>>
>> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
>> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
>> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
>> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
>> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
>> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
>> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>>
> Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
> a matter for the local/state police?

The Bureau was asked by the locals to do the forensic work. They're not
running the investigation.

On 8/14/2022 9:22 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
>>> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
>>> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
>>> pulling the trigger.
>>>
>>> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
>>> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
>>> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>>>
>>> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
>>> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
>>> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
>>> position.
>>>
>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
>>> standard way that a revolver operates.
>>>
>>> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
>>> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
>>> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
>>> off."
>>>
>>> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
>>> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
>>> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
>>> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>>>
>>> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
>>> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
>>> Baldwin's claims.
>>>
>>> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
>>> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
>>> of what prosecutors could do.
>>>
>>> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
>>> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
>>> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
>>> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
>>> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
>>> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
>>> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
>>> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
>>> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
>>> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>>>
>>> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
>>> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
>>> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
>>> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
>>> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
>>> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
>>> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>>>
>> Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
>> a matter for the local/state police?
>
> The Bureau was asked by the locals to do the forensic work. They're not
> running the investigation.

Were the locals too rusty then?

> Ubiquitous
>
> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
> a standard way that a revolver operates.

Why does the media continue to get this wrong?

Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
trigger is pulled.

https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg

That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
were horrible and there shouldn’t have been any live ammo on
the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
the revolver himself.

no_email@invalid.invalid wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:

>>> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
>>> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
>>> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
>>> pulling the trigger.
>>>
>>> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
>>> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
>>> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>>>
>>> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
>>> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
>>> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
>>> position.
>>>
>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
>>> standard way that a revolver operates.
>>>
>>> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
>>> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
>>> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
>>> off."
>>>
>>> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
>>> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
>>> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
>>> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>>>
>>> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
>>> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
>>> Baldwin's claims.
>>>
>>> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
>>> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
>>> of what prosecutors could do.
>>>
>>> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
>>> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
>>> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
>>> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
>>> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
>>> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
>>> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
>>> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
>>> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
>>> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>>>
>>> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
>>> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
>>> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
>>> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
>>> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
>>> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
>>> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>>>
>> Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
>> a matter for the local/state police?
>
>The Bureau was asked by the locals to do the forensic work. They're not
>running the investigation.

Were their forensic skills rusty?

--
Let's go Brandon!

Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Ubiquitous

Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.

Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
By Ryan Saavedra
The Daily Wire
Aug 13, 2022

This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report

Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
but loves to take credit for articles written by others.

>>If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>a standard way that a revolver operates.

>Why does the media continue to get this wrong?

>Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>trigger is pulled.

>https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg

Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?

>That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>the revolver himself.

I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.

He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
procedures.

Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
left sitting on a table. The propmaster didn't give her access to the
gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
weapon, Baldwin failed to check.

The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
on the sets of other movie productions.

I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
violations.

On 8/14/2022 12:53 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> Ubiquitous
>>
>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>
> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>
> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
> trigger is pulled.
>
> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>
> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
> were horrible and there shouldn’t have been any live ammo on
> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
> the revolver himself.

Even if this has been mentioned earlier, here it is again:

"The doctrine considers which party had the last opportunity to
avoid the accident that caused the harm. Therefore, a negligent
plaintiff may recover damages if they can show that the defendant had
the last clear chance to avoid the accident."
-Cornell Law School

And, afaics, that'd be when Baldwin didn't inspect the chamber.

On 2022-08-14 10:03 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
>>> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
>>> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
>>> pulling the trigger.
>>>
>>> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
>>> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
>>> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>>>
>>> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
>>> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
>>> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
>>> position.
>>>
>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
>>> standard way that a revolver operates.
>>>
>>> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
>>> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
>>> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
>>> off."
>>>
>>> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
>>> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
>>> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
>>> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>>>
>>> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
>>> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
>>> Baldwin's claims.
>>>
>>> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
>>> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
>>> of what prosecutors could do.
>>>
>>> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
>>> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
>>> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
>>> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
>>> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
>>> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
>>> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
>>> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
>>> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
>>> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>>>
>>> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
>>> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
>>> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
>>> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
>>> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
>>> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
>>> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>>>
>> Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
>> a matter for the local/state police?
>
> It doesn't sound like an FBI investigation in which they took the lead
> on detective work. I see no violation of federalism in calling in outside
> forensic investigators.

BTR confirms you're right :-)

--
Rhino

On 2022-08-14 10:22 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-14 4:18 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> An FBI forensic report has reportedly concluded that the revolver that
>>> was used during the fatal shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins
>>> on the set of the movie "Rust" could not have been fired without
>>> pulling the trigger.
>>>
>>> The report comes in response to actor Alec Baldwin shooting Hutchins on
>>> the movie set after he claims that he believed he was handling a
>>> firearm that was not loaded with live ammunition.
>>>
>>> The FBI report obtained by ABC News says that the .45 Colt revolver
>>> "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger" while in a
>>> quarter-cocked position, a half-cocked position, and a fully-cocked
>>> position.
>>>
>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is a
>>> standard way that a revolver operates.
>>>
>>> In an ABC News interview late last year with George Stephanopoulos,
>>> Baldwin said that he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without
>>> cocking" it and then he "let go of the hammer" and "bang, the gun goes
>>> off."
>>>
>>> Baldwin said in the interview that "the trigger wasn't pulled," "I
>>> didn't pull the trigger," "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull
>>> the trigger at them," and "someone put a live bullet in a gun, a bullet
>>> that wasn't even supposed to be on the property."
>>>
>>> The Washington Post published a fact-check article after the interview
>>> that quoted various firearm experts who expressed skepticism over
>>> Baldwin's claims.
>>>
>>> Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwie effectively said in a
>>> statement earlier this month that nothing was being ruled out in terms
>>> of what prosecutors could do.
>>>
>>> "Once the First Judicial District Attorney's Office (`FJDA') receives
>>> the completed investigation from the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office
>>> (`SFSO'), the FJDA will begin the screening process and any necessary
>>> follow-up investigation," she said in a statement. "To date, my office
>>> has received portions of the Rust investigation from SFSO but is still
>>> awaiting the balance of supplemental reports including, but not limited
>>> to, the following: FBI firearm and tool mark analyses, forensic testing
>>> on the firearm itself, the forensic download from Suffolk County PD of
>>> Mr. Baldwin's phone, and the pathology report from the New Mexico
>>> Office of the Medical Investigator."
>>>
>>> "Once SFSO receives those-and any other outstanding items-and completes
>>> its supplemental reports, the screening process will begin, and my team
>>> and I will make a charging decision," she continued. "To expedite the
>>> FJDA review process, I have added retired Ninth Judicial District
>>> Attorney, Andrea Reeb to the team, as a special prosecutor for this
>>> case. To remain transparent to the local and national community, the
>>> FJDA will proactively disseminate information as it becomes available."
>>>
>> Why is the FBI involved in this case in the first place? Shouldn't this be
>> a matter for the local/state police?
>
> The Bureau was asked by the locals to do the forensic work. They're not
> running the investigation.

Thank you, that makes sense. Even Bosch, in the Connelly books,
sometimes calls in the FBI for forensics, profiling or to do joint
investigations on occasion.

--
Rhino

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>Ubiquitous
>
>Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>
>Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>By Ryan Saavedra
>The Daily Wire
>Aug 13, 2022
>
>This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>
>https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>
>Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>
>>>If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>a standard way that a revolver operates.
>
>>Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>
>>Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>trigger is pulled.
>
>>https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>
>Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>
>>That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>the revolver himself.
>
>I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>
>He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>procedures.
>
>Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>left sitting on a table.

Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set? Did the prop master
serve in her stead watching over the firearms or were they really just
left on the table with no one watching over them?

>The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>weapon, Baldwin failed to check.
>
>The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>on the sets of other movie productions.
>
>I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>violations.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>Ubiquitous

>>Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.

>>Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>By Ryan Saavedra
>>The Daily Wire
>>Aug 13, 2022

>>This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:

>>https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report

>>Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>but loves to take credit for articles written by others.

>>>>If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>a standard way that a revolver operates.

>>>Why does the media continue to get this wrong?

>>>Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>trigger is pulled.

>>>https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg

>>Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?

>>>That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>the revolver himself.

>>I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.

>>He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>procedures.

>>Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>left sitting on a table.

>Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?

She wasn't working for whatever reason.

>Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?

The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
live ammunition.

This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
unattended.

>>The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>>gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>>violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>>shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>>cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>>the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>>to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>>cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>>weapon, Baldwin failed to check.

>>The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>>on the sets of other movie productions.

>>I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>>violations.

> Adam H. Kerman
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
> > prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
> > trigger is pulled.
>
> >https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>
> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?

No, which is most likely what Baldwin did; pulling and holding the trigger
back while cocking and releasing the hammer, even though he of course
claims otherwise.

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-responsible/story?id=81490389&cid=social_twitter_abcn
December 02, 2021

Gun in hand, Baldwin said he and Hutchins began blocking out the scene. She was directing his every move, he said: “Everything is at her direction.”

“This was a marking rehearsal,” Baldwin said. “And [Hutchins] says to me, ‘Hold the gun lower. Go to your right. Okay, right there. All right, do that. Now show it a little bit lower.’ And she's getting me to position the gun.”

“She's guiding me through how she wants me to hold the gun for this angle,” he said. “I'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it, which ended up being aimed right below her armpit.”

What happened next remains a mystery. It's the subject of intense public scrutiny and an investigation fronted by the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office.

To get the shot, Baldwin said he needed to cock the gun, but not fire it: “The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.”

“I cock the gun. I go, ‘Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?’” Baldwin said. “And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun, the gun goes off.”

“So, you never pulled the trigger?” Stephanopoulos asked.

“No, no, no, no, no,” Baldwin said. “I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them.”

Torraco, Halls’ attorney, corroborated Baldwin’s account on Thursday, saying Halls told her “from day one” that he was watching from three or four feet away and “the entire time Baldwin had his finger outside the trigger guard parallel to the barrel … that Alec did not pull that trigger."

On 8/14/2022 6:09 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>> trigger is pulled.
>>
>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>>
>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>
> No, which is most likely what Baldwin did; pulling and holding the trigger
> back while cocking and releasing the hammer, even though he of course
> claims otherwise.
>
> https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-responsible/story?id=81490389&cid=social_twitter_abcn
> December 02, 2021
>
> Gun in hand, Baldwin said he and Hutchins began blocking out the scene. She was directing his every move, he said: “Everything is at her direction.”
>
> “This was a marking rehearsal,” Baldwin said. “And [Hutchins] says to me, ‘Hold the gun lower. Go to your right. Okay, right there. All right, do that. Now show it a little bit lower.’ And she's getting me to position the gun.”
>
> “She's guiding me through how she wants me to hold the gun for this angle,” he said. “I'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it, which ended up being aimed right below her armpit.”
>
> What happened next remains a mystery. It's the subject of intense public scrutiny and an investigation fronted by the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office.
>
> To get the shot, Baldwin said he needed to cock the gun, but not fire it: “The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.”
>
> “I cock the gun. I go, ‘Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?’” Baldwin said. “And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun, the gun goes off.”
>
> “So, you never pulled the trigger?” Stephanopoulos asked.
>
> “No, no, no, no, no,” Baldwin said. “I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them.”
>
> Torraco, Halls’ attorney, corroborated Baldwin’s account on Thursday, saying Halls told her “from day one” that he was watching from three or four feet away and “the entire time Baldwin had his finger outside the trigger guard parallel to the barrel … that Alec did not pull that trigger."

One real possibility is that he has no idea what he actually did.

On 2022-08-14 5:26 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Ubiquitous
>
>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>
>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>> The Daily Wire
>>> Aug 13, 2022
>
>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>
>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>
>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>
>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>
>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>
>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>> trigger is pulled.
>
>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>
>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>
>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>> the revolver himself.
>
>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>
>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>> procedures.
>
>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>> left sitting on a table.
>
>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>
> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>
>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>
> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
> live ammunition.
>
> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
> unattended.
>
Agreed.

I continue to wonder why they had live ammo on set in the first place.
Wouldn't the normal process be for the sound of real gunshots to be
recorded separately, perhaps at a range, and then dubbed into the film
by the Foley editor? If so, why would live ammo be on the set? Also,
I've been told that it is simple to distinguish live ammo from blanks
just by eyeballing it. If so, why would anyone get the two mixed up?

>>> The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>>> gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>>> violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>>> shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>>> cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>>> the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>>> to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>>> cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>>> weapon, Baldwin failed to check.
>
>>> The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>>> on the sets of other movie productions.
>
>>> I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>>> violations.

--
Rhino

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:01:27 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>On 2022-08-14 5:26 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Ubiquitous
>>
>>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>>
>>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>>> The Daily Wire
>>>> Aug 13, 2022
>>
>>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>>
>>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>>
>>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>>
>>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>>
>>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>>
>>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>>> trigger is pulled.
>>
>>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>>
>>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>>
>>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>>> the revolver himself.
>>
>>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>>
>>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>>> procedures.
>>
>>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>>> left sitting on a table.
>>
>>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>>
>> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>>
>>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>>
>> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
>> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
>> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
>> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
>> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
>> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
>> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
>> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
>> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
>> live ammunition.
>>
>> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
>> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
>> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
>> unattended.
>>
>Agreed.
>
>I continue to wonder why they had live ammo on set in the first place.
>Wouldn't the normal process be for the sound of real gunshots to be
>recorded separately, perhaps at a range, and then dubbed into the film
>by the Foley editor? If so, why would live ammo be on the set? Also,
>I've been told that it is simple to distinguish live ammo from blanks
>just by eyeballing it. If so, why would anyone get the two mixed up?

The live ammo was there because the actors got bored and had access to
weapons that they normally would never get (the antiques) so they
wanted to play with them during their down time. So someone brought
the live ammo to the set so they could shoot off the antiques and then
someone just mixed the unused ammo with the blanks. Could have been
the same person or anyone on the set. As to why they mixed them
together, my guess is it was someone who didn't have a clue or think
about blanks versus live ammo, so likely not the prop master or the
armourer, but that still leaves a lot of people that could have done
it.

>>>> The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>>>> gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>>>> violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>>>> shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>>>> cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>>>> the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>>>> to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>>>> cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>>>> weapon, Baldwin failed to check.
>>
>>>> The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>>>> on the sets of other movie productions.
>>
>>>> I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>>>> violations.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Ubiquitous
>
>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>
>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>> The Daily Wire
>>> Aug 13, 2022
>
>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>
>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>
>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>
>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>
>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>
>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>> trigger is pulled.
>
>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>
>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>
>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>> the revolver himself.
>
>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>
>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>> procedures.
>
>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She

Really? Because IIRC she wasn’t exactly doable.

>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>> left sitting on a table.
>
>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>
> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>
>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>
> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant

I thought lots of people had access to the gun safe so they could go
shooting for fun on the weekends.

> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
> live ammunition.
>
> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
> unattended.
>
>>> The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>>> gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>>> violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>>> shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>>> cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>>> the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>>> to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>>> cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>>> weapon, Baldwin failed to check.
>
>>> The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>>> on the sets of other movie productions.
>
>>> I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>>> violations.
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> On 2022-08-14 5:26 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Ubiquitous
>>
>>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>>
>>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>>> The Daily Wire
>>>> Aug 13, 2022
>>
>>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>>
>>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>>
>>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>>
>>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>>
>>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>>
>>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>>> trigger is pulled.
>>
>>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>>
>>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>>
>>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>>> the revolver himself.
>>
>>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>>
>>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>>> procedures.
>>
>>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>>> left sitting on a table.
>>
>>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>>
>> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>>
>>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>>
>> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
>> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
>> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
>> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
>> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
>> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
>> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
>> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
>> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
>> live ammunition.
>>
>> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
>> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
>> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
>> unattended.
>>
> Agreed.
>
> I continue to wonder why they had live ammo on set in the first place.
> Wouldn't the normal process be for the sound of real gunshots to be
> recorded separately, perhaps at a range, and then dubbed into the film
> by the Foley editor? If so, why would live ammo be on the set? Also,

Because the crew was allowed access to the guns and ammo to go shooting for
fun on the weekends and stuff got mixed up.

> I've been told that it is simple to distinguish live ammo from blanks
> just by eyeballing it. If so, why would anyone get the two mixed up?
>

I don’t think anyone disputes the fact that the guy that handed Baldwin the
gun is an idiot.

>
>>>> The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>>>> gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>>>> violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>>>> shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>>>> cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>>>> the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>>>> to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>>>> cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>>>> weapon, Baldwin failed to check.
>>
>>>> The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>>>> on the sets of other movie productions.
>>
>>>> I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>>>> violations.
>
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 2022-08-14 8:06 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:01:27 -0400, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-08-14 5:26 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Ubiquitous
>>>
>>>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>>>
>>>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>>>> The Daily Wire
>>>>> Aug 13, 2022
>>>
>>>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>>>
>>>>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>>>
>>>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>>>
>>>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>>>
>>>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>>>
>>>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>>>> trigger is pulled.
>>>
>>>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>>>
>>>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>>>
>>>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>>>> the revolver himself.
>>>
>>>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>>>
>>>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>>>> procedures.
>>>
>>>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>>>> left sitting on a table.
>>>
>>>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>>>
>>> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>>>
>>>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>>>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>>>
>>> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
>>> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
>>> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
>>> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
>>> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
>>> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
>>> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
>>> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
>>> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
>>> live ammunition.
>>>
>>> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
>>> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
>>> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
>>> unattended.
>>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I continue to wonder why they had live ammo on set in the first place.
>> Wouldn't the normal process be for the sound of real gunshots to be
>> recorded separately, perhaps at a range, and then dubbed into the film
>> by the Foley editor? If so, why would live ammo be on the set? Also,
>> I've been told that it is simple to distinguish live ammo from blanks
>> just by eyeballing it. If so, why would anyone get the two mixed up?
>
> The live ammo was there because the actors got bored and had access to
> weapons that they normally would never get (the antiques) so they
> wanted to play with them during their down time. So someone brought
> the live ammo to the set so they could shoot off the antiques and then
> someone just mixed the unused ammo with the blanks. Could have been
> the same person or anyone on the set.

If that is true, it's a massive dereliction of duty and professionalism
on the part of the producers who were ultimately responsible for the
set. Bringing live ammo onto a set because people were bored is
appalling! Comingling live ammo and blanks as if they're the same is
even more so.

I remember seeing a video on how training is done in the British (? or
US) army and they take enormous care to distinguish between live and
blank ammo and keep them separate so that no one can possibly get them
confused. Each type of ammo has its use but they must NEVER be mixed
lest people get hurt unnecessarily.

> As to why they mixed them
> together, my guess is it was someone who didn't have a clue or think
> about blanks versus live ammo, so likely not the prop master or the
> armourer, but that still leaves a lot of people that could have done
> it.
>
>
>>>>> The propmaster didn't give her access to the
>>>>> gun safe, anyway. There was live ammunition on the set, an extreme
>>>>> violation of safety protocols, because between takes, the crew was just
>>>>> shooting off the antique weapons. The live ammunition and the blank
>>>>> cartriges were mixed together in a box. The assistant director who took
>>>>> the loaded weapon off the table, that he also failed to check, to hand
>>>>> to Baldwin called out "clear", yet another extreme safety violation. One
>>>>> cannot declare "clear" if one failed to check. Upon being handed the
>>>>> weapon, Baldwin failed to check.
>>>
>>>>> The A.D. was hired despite having a known history of safety violations
>>>>> on the sets of other movie productions.
>>>
>>>>> I think those are the highlights but I may have forgotten other safety
>>>>> violations.

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>On 2022-08-14 5:26 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Ubiquitous
>>
>>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>>
>>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>>> The Daily Wire
>>>> Aug 13, 2022
>>
>>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>>
>>>>
>https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>>
>>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>>
>>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>>
>>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>>
>>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>>> trigger is pulled.
>>
>>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>>
>>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>>
>>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>>> the revolver himself.
>>
>>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>>
>>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>>> procedures.
>>
>>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>>> left sitting on a table.
>>
>>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>>
>> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>>
>>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>>
>> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
>> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
>> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
>> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
>> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
>> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
>> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
>> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
>> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
>> live ammunition.
>>
>> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
>> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
>> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
>> unattended.
>>
>Agreed.
>
>I continue to wonder why they had live ammo on set in the first place.

Because the film crew was shooting off the antique weapons between
takes.

>Wouldn't the normal process be for the sound of real gunshots to be
>recorded separately, perhaps at a range, and then dubbed into the film
>by the Foley editor? If so, why would live ammo be on the set?

Live ammo hasn't been used on movie sets in decades. I read that
very well known movies in the early 1930s were still using live ammo,
like Public Enemy. Jimmy Cagney also had his very long film career cut
short by a couple of inches.

>Also,
>I've been told that it is simple to distinguish live ammo from blanks
>just by eyeballing it. If so, why would anyone get the two mixed up?

Because they were mixed together in the same box and no one on that
movie set gave a shit about safety.

>>>>. . .

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

>>. . .

>I don't think anyone disputes the fact that the guy that handed Baldwin the
>gun is an idiot.

I'll dispute it. Idiot isn't the right word. He was negligent for
picking up the weapon, then failing to check for live ammunition as he's
required to do. But at the point he declared "clear" and handed the
loaded weapon to Baldwin, he became reckless.

My question is: Is the A.D. criminally reckless?

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>>Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>Ubiquitous

>>>>Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>>>of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.

>>>>Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>>>Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>>>By Ryan Saavedra
>>>>The Daily Wire
>>>>Aug 13, 2022

>>>>This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:

>>>>https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report

>>>>Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>>>but loves to take credit for articles written by others.

>>>>>>If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>>>firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>>>a standard way that a revolver operates.

>>>>>Why does the media continue to get this wrong?

>>>>>Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>>>prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>>>trigger is pulled.

>>>>>https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg

>>>>Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?

>>>>>That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>>>were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>>>the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>>>the revolver himself.

>>>>I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.

>>>>He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>>>procedures.

>>>>Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She

>Really? Because IIRC she wasn't exactly doable.

I'm wrong. She had been a model. Her father is a well-known armourer but
he never taught her to give a shit.

>>>>. . .
>>>Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>>>were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?

>>The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
>>loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
>>with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant

>I thought lots of people had access to the gun safe so they could go
>shooting for fun on the weekends.

No one else had access to the gun safe. The propmaster took the guns
out each morning then locked them up at night. During the day, the guns
were left unattended.

The armourer claimed that she loaded the gun with blanks but the blanks
were mixed together with live ammunition in the same box.

Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Adam H. Kerman
>>>Ed Stasiak

>>>Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>trigger is pulled.

>>>https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg

>>Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?

>No, which is most likely what Baldwin did; pulling and holding the trigger
>back while cocking and releasing the hammer, even though he of course
>claims otherwise.

The images Ed found were of a modern revolver mechanism, not a revolver
of that era. I was asking if the transfer bar in a modern revolver
prevents fanning the hammer.

In the article that Ubi plagarized, I was confused about what the FBI
said about 1/4 cocked, 1/2 cocked, and fully cocked hamemr. Those aren't
additional notches in the mechanism, right? Just holding the hammer part
of the way?

>. . .

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-08-14 5:26 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> Sun, 14 Aug 2022 18:41:33 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>>> Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Ubiquitous
>>>
>>>>> Once again, Ubi-the-shithead committed full-text copyright infringement
>>>>> of an article written by someone else whom he refuses to credit.
>>>
>>>>> Damning FBI Report On Fatal Shooting On 'Rust' Movie Set Spells
>>>>> Potential Trouble For Alec Baldwin: Report
>>>>> By Ryan Saavedra
>>>>> The Daily Wire
>>>>> Aug 13, 2022
>>>
>>>>> This is the ULR Ubi-the-shithead hid in his headers:
>>>
>>>>>
>> https://www.dailywire.com/news/damning-fbi-report-on-fatal-shooting-on-rust-movie-set-spells-potential-trouble-for-alec-baldwin-report
>>>
>>>>> Ubi-the-shithead has nothing to say and makes no contribution to Usenet,
>>>>> but loves to take credit for articles written by others.
>>>
>>>>>>> If the hammer on the revolver was in the de-cocked position, the
>>>>>>> firearm could discharge a round by striking the hammer, which is
>>>>>>> a standard way that a revolver operates.
>>>
>>>>>> Why does the media continue to get this wrong?
>>>
>>>>>> Modern revolvers are equipped with a transfer bar safety that
>>>>>> prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin unless the
>>>>>> trigger is pulled.
>>>
>>>>>> https://i.youguan5.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/6-1556248534.jpeg
>>>
>>>>> Thank you for clarifying. Does that prevent fanning the hammer?
>>>
>>>>>> That said, Balwin is right in that firearm safety procedures
>>>>>> were horrible and there shouldn=E2=80=99t have been any live ammo on
>>>>>> the set of the movie production but HE should have checked
>>>>>> the revolver himself.
>>>
>>>>> I'd say that's a MUST, not a SHOULD.
>>>
>>>>> He's one of the producers. He's literally responsible for safety
>>>>> procedures.
>>>
>>>>> Let's recall: The armourer was a former beauty pagent contestant. She
>>>>> wasn't on set to attend the working firearms (and nonworking firearms)
>>>>> left sitting on a table.
>>>
>>>> Was there a reason that she wasn't on the set?
>>>
>>> She wasn't working for whatever reason.
>>>
>>>> Did the prop master serve in her stead watching over the firearms or
>>>> were they really just left on the table with no one watching over them?
>>>
>>> The guns needed for the scenes being shot that day were laid out and
>>> loaded, plus whatever antique weapons the crew had been playing around
>>> with. No one but the propmaster had access to the gun safe, which meant
>>> that the guns had to be on that table once the propmaster removed them
>>> from the safe. Movie set safety protocols require that guns left out never
>>> be unattended. I have no idea who loaded them. The asshole A.D. grabbed
>>> the working gun needed for the next scene to be shot, called out "clear"
>>> despite failed to verify that there was no live ammunition in the gun,
>>> then handed it to Baldwin, who also failed to verify that there was no
>>> live ammunition.
>>>
>>> This workplace shooting was 100$ avoidable if any party handling that
>>> gun had must taken a moment to check for live bullets, if live bullets
>>> were never mixed with blanks, and if the guns were never left
>>> unattended.
>>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> I continue to wonder why they had live ammo on set in the first place.
>
> Because the film crew was shooting off the antique weapons between
> takes.
>
>> Wouldn't the normal process be for the sound of real gunshots to be
>> recorded separately, perhaps at a range, and then dubbed into the film
>> by the Foley editor? If so, why would live ammo be on the set?
>
> Live ammo hasn't been used on movie sets in decades. I read that
> very well known movies in the early 1930s were still using live ammo,
> like Public Enemy. Jimmy Cagney also had his very long film career cut
> short by a couple of inches.

Can you elaborate on that?

>
>> Also,
>> I've been told that it is simple to distinguish live ammo from blanks
>> just by eyeballing it. If so, why would anyone get the two mixed up?
>
> Because they were mixed together in the same box and no one on that
> movie set gave a shit about safety.

I’m picturing drunken idiots on the weekend dumping boxes of ammo on the
table with the beer cans and loading guns and then putting them back in the
boxes and mixing them up in the process.

>
>>>>> . . .
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.