On 11/1/22 9:17 PM, RichA wrote:
> I guess the producers figured since the show is cancelled they could free-for-all the reality of the abortions. The vast majority are of convenience, not for medical reasons. But I give the show credit where they brought to attention the mealy-mouthed language around saying, "abortion."
>

You're going to have to show a clip or quote the EXACT dialogue to prove
you're not lying. I assume you are until proven otherwise, so, in
short, you're fucked.

On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 13:53:59 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rander3128@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, 2 November 2022 at 05:22:51 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 11/1/22 9:17 PM, RichA wrote:
>> > I guess the producers figured since the show is cancelled they could free-for-all the reality of the abortions. The vast majority are of convenience, not for medical reasons. But I give the show credit where they brought to attention the mealy-mouthed language around saying, "abortion."
>> >
>> You're going to have to show a clip or quote the EXACT dialogue to prove
>> you're not lying. I assume you are until proven otherwise, so, in
>> short, you're fucked.
>
>Woman comes into the hospital with uterine cancer. She can't be treated without killing her fetus. She opts for a radical treatment instead because she is anti-abortion.
>Another woman has an ectopic pregnancy.
>Ex-druggie (female) ER head opines that she had two abortions because "she couldn't handle a kid" so I suppose she was referring to her mental health.
>NO ONE came in and said, "A kid right now is inconvenient, I want an abortion."

No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
just personal convenience or desire. In the first situation, we don't
know what her problem was, in the second an ectopic pregnancy isn't
something one can carry to birth - it's sad and it's abnormal but it
is what it is. And there's no way I know of that that ends well for
both mom and babe. In those hellish situations you do what you must
without hesitation.

The rest of the time I think my wife and I had the right view - that
what we did pre-conception in the way of contraception was fair game
but after the 'blessed event' you don't mess about destroying what
exists. (And went for sterilization once sure we definitely didn't
want any more)

In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
<lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
> just personal convenience or desire.

Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.

> In the first situation, we don't know what her problem was, in the
> second an ectopic pregnancy isn't something one can carry to birth -
> it's sad and it's abnormal but it is what it is.

That's another argument entirely. Even the Catholic Church doesn't
object to ending an ectopic pregnancy.

On 11/7/22 7:47 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 13:06:13 UTC-5, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Wed, 2 Nov 2022 13:53:59 -0700 (PDT), RichA <rande...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 2 November 2022 at 05:22:51 UTC-4, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On 11/1/22 9:17 PM, RichA wrote:
>>>>> I guess the producers figured since the show is cancelled they could free-for-all the reality of the abortions. The vast majority are of convenience, not for medical reasons. But I give the show credit where they brought to attention the mealy-mouthed language around saying, "abortion."
>>>>>
>>>> You're going to have to show a clip or quote the EXACT dialogue to prove
>>>> you're not lying. I assume you are until proven otherwise, so, in
>>>> short, you're fucked.
>>>
>>> Woman comes into the hospital with uterine cancer. She can't be treated without killing her fetus. She opts for a radical treatment instead because she is anti-abortion.
>>> Another woman has an ectopic pregnancy.
>>> Ex-druggie (female) ER head opines that she had two abortions because "she couldn't handle a kid" so I suppose she was referring to her mental health.
>>> NO ONE came in and said, "A kid right now is inconvenient, I want an abortion."
>> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
>> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
>> just personal convenience or desire.
>
> There are people who want no abortions at all, no matter what the consequences but there are also people on the other side who want infanticide de-criminalized because it is
> "done for the mental health of the mother."

Lies, horseshit and shitposting are all you have left at this point.
Any right wing dickhead crying "infanticide" is begging to be dismissed
for having zero credibility. Hope this helps.

On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
>> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
>> just personal convenience or desire.
>
>
>Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.

Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
now.

While I have Catholic friends I am definitely not one myself.

>> In the first situation, we don't know what her problem was, in the
>> second an ectopic pregnancy isn't something one can carry to birth -
>> it's sad and it's abnormal but it is what it is.
>
>That's another argument entirely. Even the Catholic Church doesn't
>object to ending an ectopic pregnancy.

Based on what I believe my view (and milady and I practiced what we
preached though we're more focussed on grandchild than children now)
(1) that life begins at conception so do what you will in the way of
contraception before the fact but (2) don't even think about taking
steps after the fact, (3) you are an adult and expected to be one
concerning contraception (which is why I support more open
availability of contraception - though don't support my taxes paying
for it) and (4) when you are certain that you are done with children
be a man (or woman) and take permanent steps.

Obviously I don't expect everyone to agree but sex is serious business
and if you're planning on boinking about that's great but don't park
your brains at the bedside. It's one of a bunch of adult activities
adults are expected to be responsible about. (For instance my
granddaughter is learning how to crawl - and since she is a
semi-frequent visitor to our home we are installing plastic covers
over our power outlets)

In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
<lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> ><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
> >> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
> >> just personal convenience or desire.
> >
> >
> >Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
>
> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
> know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
> give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
> now.

Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.

Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
not ancient history. It's yesterday.

On 11/12/2022 5:57 AM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
>>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
>>>> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
>>>> just personal convenience or desire.
>>>
>>>
>>> Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
>>
>> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
>> know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
>> give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
>> now.
>
>
> Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
> die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
> nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.
>
> Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
> not ancient history. It's yesterday.
>
Well, 60 years ago. That's a couple generations.

In <tkocku$n6o5$1@solani.org> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> writes:

[snip]
>> Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
>> not ancient history. It's yesterday.
>>
>Well, 60 years ago. That's a couple generations.

Well, in the case of priests and other Papist leaders,
that's more like a couple of NON-generations ago..

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 11/12/2022 7:07 AM, danny burstein wrote:
> In <tkocku$n6o5$1@solani.org> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> writes:
>
> [snip]
>>> Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
>>> not ancient history. It's yesterday.
>>>
>> Well, 60 years ago. That's a couple generations.
>
> Well, in the case of priests and other Papist leaders,
> that's more like a couple of NON-generations ago..
>
I was talking about Pius XII. Very few of them feel that way these days.

In article <tkocku$n6o5$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 11/12/2022 5:57 AM, A Friend wrote:
> > In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> > <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> >>> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
> >>>> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
> >>>> just personal convenience or desire.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
> >>
> >> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
> >> know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
> >> give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
> >> now.
> >
> >
> > Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
> > die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
> > nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.
> >
> > Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
> > not ancient history. It's yesterday.
> >
> Well, 60 years ago. That's a couple generations.

Again, it's the Catholic Church. A couple of generations is an
eyeblink.

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:57:50 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
>> ><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>> >Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
>>
>> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
>> know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
>> give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
>> now.
>
>Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
>die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
>nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.
>
>Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
>not ancient history. It's yesterday.

Oh come on - Pius XII died when I was 3 years old and I'm of
pensionable age now.

A few things in this world have changed since then. Just a few.

In article <341dnhh8ra9tgss3c3651d8utivmb3vtof@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
<lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:57:50 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> ><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> >> ><lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
> >> >Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
> >>
> >> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
> >> know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
> >> give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
> >> now.
> >
> >Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
> >die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
> >nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.
> >
> >Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII is
> >not ancient history. It's yesterday.
>
> Oh come on - Pius XII died when I was 3 years old and I'm of
> pensionable age now.
>
> A few things in this world have changed since then. Just a few.

Don't tell me, tell them. You refuse to see the point. I will say
again that the Catholic Church deals in centuries, not decades. It
doesn't matter squat that "just a few" things have changed in the world
in our lifetimes.

If you think the church has ever made an exception to its anti-abortion
policy in order to safeguard the life or health of the mother, you're
just absolutely wrong.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> writes:

> In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny
> Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>>> In article <hvhimh9e32dm6ddqvjigq8e8hpm5oqic0d@4ax.com>, The Horny
>>> Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>>> No one but the most extreme anti-abortion advocate would expect a
>>>> woman to risk life and death if it truly was life and death and not
>>>> just personal convenience or desire.
>>>
>>> Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
>>
>> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I don't
>> know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the line to
>> give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's ancient history
>> now.
>
> Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
> die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
> nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.

Something that isn't taught just about anywhere I know of is that
carrying a pregnancy to term has a higher mortality/morbidity risk than
aborting. People act like dying in childbirth is something that went
away with the 19th century, but it didn't.

-Micky

A Friend <nope@noway.com> writes:

> In article <341dnhh8ra9tgss3c3651d8utivmb3vtof@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:57:50 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>> In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny
>>> Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>>> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I
>>>> don't know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the
>>>> line to give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's
>>>> ancient history now.
>>>
>>> Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
>>> die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
>>> nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.
>>>
>>> Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII
>>> is not ancient history. It's yesterday.
>>
>> Oh come on - Pius XII died when I was 3 years old and I'm of
>> pensionable age now.
>>
>> A few things in this world have changed since then. Just a few.
>
> Don't tell me, tell them. You refuse to see the point. I will say
> again that the Catholic Church deals in centuries, not decades. It
> doesn't matter squat that "just a few" things have changed in the
> world in our lifetimes.

I don't remember exactly when, but I know the Catholic Church didn't get
around to apologizing to Galileo until my lifetime. Better late than
never, but that's really damn late.

-Micky

On 2022-11-22 04:55:50 +0000, Micky DuPree said:
>
> Something that isn't taught just about anywhere I know of is that
> carrying a pregnancy to term has a higher mortality/morbidity risk than
> aborting. People act like dying in childbirth is something that went
> away with the 19th century, but it didn't.

Yep. Some mothers still die during childbirth due to various reasons.
The highest death rate is actually in the US (when not including third
world countries) for some reason where it has been increasing.

Maternal Mortality Ratio per 100,000 Live Births

United States 26.4 (20.4 = 218-2020, 23.8 = 2014, 18.8 = 2000)
United Kingdom 9.2
Portugal 9.0
Germany 9.0
France 7.8
Canada 7.3
Netherlands 6.7
Spain 5.6
Australia 5.5
Ireland 4.7
Sweden 4.4
Italy 4.2
Denmark 4.2
Finland 3.8

For comparison (although a little misleading since it cover multiple
countries):

Sub-Saharan Africa 533.0

In article <tlhlbi$hpt$2@pcls7.std.com>, Micky DuPree
<MDuPree@theworld.com.snip.to.reply> wrote:

> A Friend <nope@noway.com> writes:
>
> > In article <341dnhh8ra9tgss3c3651d8utivmb3vtof@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
> > <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:57:50 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >>> In article <k9jumh5n4r34pblblb79j1o5cs0kchabt5@4ax.com>, The Horny
> >>> Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Mon, 07 Nov 2022 16:41:46 -0500, A Friend <nope@noway.com>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Goat, meet the Catholic Church. Church, meet Goat.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmmm. I know plenty of Catholics (including a few clergy) and I
> >>>> don't know any who actually expect a mother to put her life on the
> >>>> line to give birth. Maybe in the times of Pius XII but that's
> >>>> ancient history now.
> >>>
> >>> Likewise, I don't know anyone who would expect a mother to choose to
> >>> die in pregnancy or childbirth, but that real-world experience has
> >>> nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.
> >>>
> >>> Also, you're talking about the Catholic Church. The era of Pius XII
> >>> is not ancient history. It's yesterday.
> >>
> >> Oh come on - Pius XII died when I was 3 years old and I'm of
> >> pensionable age now.
> >>
> >> A few things in this world have changed since then. Just a few.
> >
> > Don't tell me, tell them. You refuse to see the point. I will say
> > again that the Catholic Church deals in centuries, not decades. It
> > doesn't matter squat that "just a few" things have changed in the
> > world in our lifetimes.
>
> I don't remember exactly when, but I know the Catholic Church didn't get
> around to apologizing to Galileo until my lifetime. Better late than
> never, but that's really damn late.
>
> -Micky

Halloween 1992. Pope John Paul II said he regretted how the matter was
handled, and he conceded that the earth was not a stationary object.
Apparently this was all cleared up for him by the Pontifical Council
for Culture.

I remember that, back then, a priest in Chicago wrote a thinkpiece for
the Wall Street Journal in which he said the church had been right to
condemn Galileo for all those centuries because Galileo had not
followed proper procedures. It's been said that some people will
believe anything, even past all reason. Well, there y'go.