On 11/26/22 8:58 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <atropos-53269E.15173126112022@news.giganews.com>, BTR1701
> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <261120221745594809%nope@noway.com>,
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tlu39d$l69$1@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ÝÝ moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman arrives at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her AirBNB (on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.Ý BARBARIAN,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on HBOMax, is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconventionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.Ý From this fan, it's well recommended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving preview"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on regular cable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday night on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HBOSIG at 10:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.Ý The first two thirds was good, the last reel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was hokey in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For straight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah, maybe I do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it as a straight up horror-fan.Ý What I saw was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's character arc as he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolves his moral doubts, as well as a subsequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS. Moreover, once a horror-fan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks about it, he'll recognize that he just re-watched
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PSYCHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewer invests time and interest in only to fall into a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typical horror trope and treat him or her as disposable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.Ý If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think about it there's a reason why so many horror movies have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bunch of shallow teens getting killed, it's hard to take too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much of a liking to them. Occasionally, it can go the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way where there is a more interesting and complex character
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> veering towards the finale, as in "The Shining." That's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variation on the theme and takes a good writer and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filmmaker to handle properly. "Barbarian" had some good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters and good dialogue (and really good production
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> values) which led up to a fairly generic monster (albeit with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an actual backstory, good job on that too) and some familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> horror set pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused. "The two guys" we first meet, Tess and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keith?
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four? And did they all have
>>>>>>>>>> the same amount of screen time?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All had screen time.
>>
>>>>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a clear,
>>>>>>>> valid point that was beyond your ken. Stop shitposting.
>>
>>>>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that all
>>>>>>> had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
>>>>>>> sympathy/antipathy.ÝI'm still not sure whose demise irked you, or why.
>>
>>>>>> You're either lying or confused or both.Ý Two of the four, the first
>>>>>> guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was called, had
>>>>>> onscreen time to develop an actual character with actual data about
>>>>>> those characters.Ý Thus the audience has time to care what happens to
>>>>>> these two and when they're treated as disposable the way teenagers are
>>>>>> by Jason or Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers it's an unsatisfying
>>>>>> situation. ÝÝAs stated previously it's not like the Shining, to name
>>>>>> one such movie/story does the opposite, we get to know the character
>>>>>> but also watch hinm going off the rails so the end isn't disappointing
>>>>>> but rather seems like the logical conclusion.Ý And I'm not a Stephen
>>>>>> King fan but from a storytelling perspective he did well in his first
>>>>>> three novels. Anyhow, I think in Barbarian the characters were handled
>>>>>> in an unsatisfying way, and I doubt I'm the only one.Ý I also said it
>>>>>> was good nonetheless and I look forward to seeing what the guy who
>>>>>> wrote and directed, Zach Cregger, does next.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman Crothers
>>>>> character, who was given considerable development but was also offed
>>>>> out
>>>>> of the blue.)
>>
>>>> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that. I didn't
>>>> read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the novel but I
>>>> tend to doubt it.
>>
>>> It's been a long time since I read The Shining, but I think the movie
>>> was faithful to the book on that score.
>>
>> Nope. Hallorann was attacked and injured by both the topiary animals and
>> Jack. He subsequently helps Wendy and Danny flee the hotel as it is
>> destroyed by the exploding boiler.
>
>
> I see that I confused the issue. I even knew better. Sorry.

On 11/27/2022 4:35 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 11/26/22 5:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/26/2022 5:17 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman arrives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at her AirBNB (on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BARBARIAN, on HBOMax, is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconventionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.  From this fan, it's well recommended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preview" on regular cable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on HBOSIG at 10:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.  The first two thirds was good, the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reel was hokey in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end. For straight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah, maybe I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do it as a straight up horror-fan.  What I saw was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's character arc as he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolves his moral doubts, as well as a subsequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS. Moreover, once a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> horror-fan thinks about it, he'll recognize that he just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-watched PSYCHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewer invests time and interest in only to fall into a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typical horror trope and treat him or her as disposable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.  If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think about it there's a reason why so many horror movies
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a bunch of shallow teens getting killed, it's hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> take too much of a liking to them. Occasionally, it can go
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other way where there is a more interesting and complex
>>>>>>>>>>>>> character veering towards the finale, as in "The Shining."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a variation on the theme and takes a good writer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or filmmaker to handle properly. "Barbarian" had some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> good characters and good dialogue (and really good
>>>>>>>>>>>>> production values) which led up to a fairly generic monster
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (albeit with an actual backstory, good job on that too) and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some familiar horror set pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused.  "The two guys" we first meet, Tess and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Keith?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four?  And did they all
>>>>>>>>> have the same amount of screen time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All had screen time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a
>>>>>>> clear, valid point that was beyond your ken.  Stop shitposting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that
>>>>>> all had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
>>>>>> sympathy/antipathy.   I'm still not sure whose demise irked you,
>>>>>> or why.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You're either lying or confused or both.  Two of the four, the
>>>>> first guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was called,
>>>>> had onscreen time to develop an actual character with actual data
>>>>> about those characters.  Thus the audience has time to care what
>>>>> happens to these two and when they're treated as disposable the way
>>>>> teenagers are by Jason or Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers it's an
>>>>> unsatisfying situation.   As stated previously it's not like the
>>>>> Shining, to name one such movie/story does the opposite, we get to
>>>>> know the character but also watch hinm going off the rails so the
>>>>> end isn't disappointing but rather seems like the logical
>>>>> conclusion.  And I'm not a Stephen King fan but from a storytelling
>>>>> perspective he did well in his first three novels. Anyhow, I think
>>>>> in Barbarian the characters were handled in an unsatisfying way,
>>>>> and I doubt I'm the only one.  I also said it was good nonetheless
>>>>> and I look forward to seeing what the guy who wrote and directed,
>>>>> Zach Cregger, does next.
>>>>
>>>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman Crothers
>>>> character, who was given considerable development but was also offed
>>>> out of the blue.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that.  I
>>> didn't read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the
>>> novel but I tend to doubt it.
>>
>> Good call!
>>
>>
>>>   In BARBARIAN, Keith was the 'Marion Crane' character,
>>>> whose job was to point the film in a clear direction in order for
>>>> his startling demise to whiplash the audience into a whole new
>>>> movie. Justin, meanwhile, was given (almost tongue-in-cheek) some
>>>> headline-fodder morality to deal with, which he resolves in a manner
>>>> that's not only totally unexpected, but also yanks away any sympathy
>>>> he might've accrued -- hardly a "disposable" exit.  (Also, as I
>>>> mentioned earlier, imo his JEEPERS CREEPERS shout-out was a hoot.)
>>>
>>>
>>> I never saw Psycho but I'll take your word for it.  Robert Bloch was
>>> also a very good writer.
>>
>> I never *read* 'Psycho', but the movie is an indisputable cinematic
>> milestone.  (You probably didn't/won't understand that BARBARIAN is a
>> deliberate, clever remake/retread of much of it.)
>
>
> And you probably just skipped over my comment about the movie being
> influenced by the X-Files ep. "Home."  There was a comment on Reddit
> about this too.

In article <tlvb3o$1h9a$2@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
wrote:

> On 11/26/22 5:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <tlu39d$l69$1@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
> >>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
> >>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
> >>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
> >>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman arrives at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her AirBNB (on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.  BARBARIAN,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on HBOMax, is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller done
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconventionally
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.  From this fan, it's well recommended.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving preview"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on regular cable
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday night on
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HBOSIG at 10:05
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.  The first two thirds was good, the last reel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was hokey in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the end.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For straight
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah, maybe I do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it as a straight up horror-fan.  What I saw was a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's character arc as he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolves his moral doubts, as well as a subsequent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS. Moreover, once a horror-fan
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks about it, he'll recognize that he just re-watched
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PSYCHO.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewer invests time and interest in only to fall into a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> typical horror trope and treat him or her as disposable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.  If you
> >>>>>>>>>>>> think about it there's a reason why so many horror movies have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a bunch of shallow teens getting killed, it's hard to take too
> >>>>>>>>>>>> much of a liking to them. Occasionally, it can go the other
> >>>>>>>>>>>> way where there is a more interesting and complex character
> >>>>>>>>>>>> veering towards the finale, as in "The Shining." That's a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> variation on the theme and takes a good writer and/or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> filmmaker to handle properly. "Barbarian" had some good
> >>>>>>>>>>>> characters and good dialogue (and really good production
> >>>>>>>>>>>> values) which led up to a fairly generic monster (albeit with
> >>>>>>>>>>>> an actual backstory, good job on that too) and some familiar
> >>>>>>>>>>>> horror set pieces.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused.  "The two guys" we first meet, Tess and
> >>>>>>>>>>> Keith?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four?  And did they all have
> >>>>>>>> the same amount of screen time?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> All had screen time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a clear,
> >>>>>> valid point that was beyond your ken.  Stop shitposting.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that all
> >>>>> had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
> >>>>> sympathy/antipathy.   I'm still not sure whose demise irked you, or why.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You're either lying or confused or both.  Two of the four, the first
> >>>> guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was called, had
> >>>> onscreen time to develop an actual character with actual data about
> >>>> those characters.  Thus the audience has time to care what happens to
> >>>> these two and when they're treated as disposable the way teenagers are
> >>>> by Jason or Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers it's an unsatisfying
> >>>> situation.   As stated previously it's not like the Shining, to name
> >>>> one such movie/story does the opposite, we get to know the character
> >>>> but also watch hinm going off the rails so the end isn't disappointing
> >>>> but rather seems like the logical conclusion.  And I'm not a Stephen
> >>>> King fan but from a storytelling perspective he did well in his first
> >>>> three novels. Anyhow, I think in Barbarian the characters were handled
> >>>> in an unsatisfying way, and I doubt I'm the only one.  I also said it
> >>>> was good nonetheless and I look forward to seeing what the guy who
> >>>> wrote and directed, Zach Cregger, does next.
> >>>
> >>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman Crothers
> >>> character, who was given considerable development but was also offed out
> >>> of the blue.)
> >
> >> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that. I didn't
> >> read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the novel but I
> >> tend to doubt it.
> >
> > Hallorann (the Crothers character) survives in the book and makes an
> > appearance in the sequel, DOCTOR SLEEP.
>
> Thanks for that, I knew you would know the answer. Does he appear in
> the movie Doctor Sleep as well?

On 11/27/22 3:32 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tlvb3o$1h9a$2@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/26/22 5:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <tlu39d$l69$1@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman arrives at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her AirBNB (on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.  BARBARIAN,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on HBOMax, is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconventionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.  From this fan, it's well recommended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving preview"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on regular cable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday night on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HBOSIG at 10:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.  The first two thirds was good, the last reel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was hokey in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For straight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah, maybe I do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it as a straight up horror-fan.  What I saw was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's character arc as he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolves his moral doubts, as well as a subsequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS. Moreover, once a horror-fan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks about it, he'll recognize that he just re-watched
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PSYCHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewer invests time and interest in only to fall into a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typical horror trope and treat him or her as disposable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.  If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think about it there's a reason why so many horror movies have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bunch of shallow teens getting killed, it's hard to take too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much of a liking to them. Occasionally, it can go the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way where there is a more interesting and complex character
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> veering towards the finale, as in "The Shining." That's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variation on the theme and takes a good writer and/or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> filmmaker to handle properly. "Barbarian" had some good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characters and good dialogue (and really good production
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> values) which led up to a fairly generic monster (albeit with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an actual backstory, good job on that too) and some familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> horror set pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused.  "The two guys" we first meet, Tess and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Keith?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four?  And did they all have
>>>>>>>>>> the same amount of screen time?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All had screen time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a clear,
>>>>>>>> valid point that was beyond your ken.  Stop shitposting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that all
>>>>>>> had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
>>>>>>> sympathy/antipathy.   I'm still not sure whose demise irked you, or why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're either lying or confused or both.  Two of the four, the first
>>>>>> guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was called, had
>>>>>> onscreen time to develop an actual character with actual data about
>>>>>> those characters.  Thus the audience has time to care what happens to
>>>>>> these two and when they're treated as disposable the way teenagers are
>>>>>> by Jason or Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers it's an unsatisfying
>>>>>> situation.   As stated previously it's not like the Shining, to name
>>>>>> one such movie/story does the opposite, we get to know the character
>>>>>> but also watch hinm going off the rails so the end isn't disappointing
>>>>>> but rather seems like the logical conclusion.  And I'm not a Stephen
>>>>>> King fan but from a storytelling perspective he did well in his first
>>>>>> three novels. Anyhow, I think in Barbarian the characters were handled
>>>>>> in an unsatisfying way, and I doubt I'm the only one.  I also said it
>>>>>> was good nonetheless and I look forward to seeing what the guy who
>>>>>> wrote and directed, Zach Cregger, does next.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman Crothers
>>>>> character, who was given considerable development but was also offed out
>>>>> of the blue.)
>>>
>>>> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that. I didn't
>>>> read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the novel but I
>>>> tend to doubt it.
>>>
>>> Hallorann (the Crothers character) survives in the book and makes an
>>> appearance in the sequel, DOCTOR SLEEP.
>>
>> Thanks for that, I knew you would know the answer. Does he appear in
>> the movie Doctor Sleep as well?
>
> Yes, played by Carl Lumbly.

On 11/27/2022 10:43 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/27/2022 4:35 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 11/26/22 5:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 11/26/2022 5:17 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman arrives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at her AirBNB (on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BARBARIAN, on HBOMax, is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconventionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.  From this fan, it's well recommended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preview" on regular cable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night on HBOSIG at 10:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.  The first two thirds was good, the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reel was hokey in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end. For straight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah, maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do it as a straight up horror-fan.  What I saw was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's character arc as he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolves his moral doubts, as well as a subsequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS. Moreover, once a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> horror-fan thinks about it, he'll recognize that he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just re-watched PSYCHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viewer invests time and interest in only to fall into a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typical horror trope and treat him or her as disposable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.  If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think about it there's a reason why so many horror movies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a bunch of shallow teens getting killed, it's hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take too much of a liking to them. Occasionally, it can go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other way where there is a more interesting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complex character veering towards the finale, as in "The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shining." That's a variation on the theme and takes a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writer and/or filmmaker to handle properly. "Barbarian"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had some good characters and good dialogue (and really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good production values) which led up to a fairly generic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monster (albeit with an actual backstory, good job on that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> too) and some familiar horror set pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused.  "The two guys" we first meet, Tess
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Keith?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four?  And did they all
>>>>>>>>>> have the same amount of screen time?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All had screen time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a
>>>>>>>> clear, valid point that was beyond your ken.  Stop shitposting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that
>>>>>>> all had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
>>>>>>> sympathy/antipathy.   I'm still not sure whose demise irked you,
>>>>>>> or why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're either lying or confused or both.  Two of the four, the
>>>>>> first guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was called,
>>>>>> had onscreen time to develop an actual character with actual data
>>>>>> about those characters.  Thus the audience has time to care what
>>>>>> happens to these two and when they're treated as disposable the
>>>>>> way teenagers are by Jason or Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers it's
>>>>>> an unsatisfying situation.   As stated previously it's not like
>>>>>> the Shining, to name one such movie/story does the opposite, we
>>>>>> get to know the character but also watch hinm going off the rails
>>>>>> so the end isn't disappointing but rather seems like the logical
>>>>>> conclusion.  And I'm not a Stephen King fan but from a
>>>>>> storytelling perspective he did well in his first three novels.
>>>>>> Anyhow, I think in Barbarian the characters were handled in an
>>>>>> unsatisfying way, and I doubt I'm the only one.  I also said it
>>>>>> was good nonetheless and I look forward to seeing what the guy who
>>>>>> wrote and directed, Zach Cregger, does next.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman Crothers
>>>>> character, who was given considerable development but was also
>>>>> offed out of the blue.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that.  I
>>>> didn't read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the
>>>> novel but I tend to doubt it.
>>>
>>> Good call!
>>>
>>>
>>>>   In BARBARIAN, Keith was the 'Marion Crane' character,
>>>>> whose job was to point the film in a clear direction in order for
>>>>> his startling demise to whiplash the audience into a whole new
>>>>> movie. Justin, meanwhile, was given (almost tongue-in-cheek) some
>>>>> headline-fodder morality to deal with, which he resolves in a
>>>>> manner that's not only totally unexpected, but also yanks away any
>>>>> sympathy he might've accrued -- hardly a "disposable" exit.  (Also,
>>>>> as I mentioned earlier, imo his JEEPERS CREEPERS shout-out was a
>>>>> hoot.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never saw Psycho but I'll take your word for it.  Robert Bloch was
>>>> also a very good writer.
>>>
>>> I never *read* 'Psycho', but the movie is an indisputable cinematic
>>> milestone.  (You probably didn't/won't understand that BARBARIAN is a
>>> deliberate, clever remake/retread of much of it.)
>>
>>
>> And you probably just skipped over my comment about the movie being
>> influenced by the X-Files ep. "Home."  There was a comment on Reddit
>> about this too.
>
> Yeah, I do well to recall having seen whole series, much less individual
> episodes.  However, I see now that ep2 s4 "Home" was indeed apparently
> special.  I've ordered it to watch again.  (No spoilers now, please.)

In article <q9HmL.653$eRZ7.5@fx06.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 11/27/2022 10:43 AM, moviePig wrote:
> > On 11/27/2022 4:35 AM, trotsky wrote:
> >> On 11/26/22 5:12 PM, moviePig wrote:

> >>> I never *read* 'Psycho', but the movie is an indisputable cinematic
> >>> milestone. (You probably didn't/won't understand that BARBARIAN is a
> >>> deliberate, clever remake/retread of much of it.)
> >>
> >> And you probably just skipped over my comment about the movie being
> >> influenced by the X-Files ep. "Home." There was a comment on Reddit
> >> about this too.
> >
> > Yeah, I do well to recall having seen whole series, much less individual
> > episodes. However, I see now that ep2 s4 "Home" was indeed apparently
> > special. I've ordered it to watch again. (No spoilers now, please.)
>
> So, I watched 'Home' as promised, and now have a completely sideways
> question. It makes extensive use of Johnny Mathis's iconic 'Wonderful
> Wonderful' (although clearly a "cover" of the original), and I'm
> wondering: What's that signature train-whistle sounding instrument?

Listening to the song in YouTube, I don't hear anything that sounds like
a train whistle. There's a whistle going throughout the song, but not
anything like a train sound. It's merely someone actually whistling,
like with their lips.

On 12/15/2022 1:08 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <q9HmL.653$eRZ7.5@fx06.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/27/2022 10:43 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 11/27/2022 4:35 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>> On 11/26/22 5:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
>
>>>>> I never *read* 'Psycho', but the movie is an indisputable cinematic
>>>>> milestone. (You probably didn't/won't understand that BARBARIAN is a
>>>>> deliberate, clever remake/retread of much of it.)
>>>>
>>>> And you probably just skipped over my comment about the movie being
>>>> influenced by the X-Files ep. "Home." There was a comment on Reddit
>>>> about this too.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I do well to recall having seen whole series, much less individual
>>> episodes. However, I see now that ep2 s4 "Home" was indeed apparently
>>> special. I've ordered it to watch again. (No spoilers now, please.)
>>
>> So, I watched 'Home' as promised, and now have a completely sideways
>> question. It makes extensive use of Johnny Mathis's iconic 'Wonderful
>> Wonderful' (although clearly a "cover" of the original), and I'm
>> wondering: What's that signature train-whistle sounding instrument?
>
> Listening to the song in YouTube, I don't hear anything that sounds like
> a train whistle. There's a whistle going throughout the song, but not
> anything like a train sound. It's merely someone actually whistling,
> like with their lips.

Yeah, listening to it with primed ears, I can hear a puckered whistle
....though it's an awfully pure one, and heavily reverbed I bet.

On 12/15/22 9:35 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/27/2022 10:43 AM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/27/2022 4:35 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>> On 11/26/22 5:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 11/26/2022 5:17 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman arrives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at her AirBNB (on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BARBARIAN, on HBOMax, is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unconventionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.  From this fan, it's well recommended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preview" on regular cable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night on HBOSIG at 10:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.  The first two thirds was good, the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reel was hokey in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end. For straight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah, maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do it as a straight up horror-fan.  What I saw was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's character arc as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he resolves his moral doubts, as well as a subsequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS. Moreover, once a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> horror-fan thinks about it, he'll recognize that he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just re-watched PSYCHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a viewer invests time and interest in only to fall into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a typical horror trope and treat him or her as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disposable. Your mileage may vary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.  If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you think about it there's a reason why so many horror
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movies have a bunch of shallow teens getting killed, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to take too much of a liking to them. Occasionally,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it can go the other way where there is a more interesting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and complex character veering towards the finale, as in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Shining." That's a variation on the theme and takes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good writer and/or filmmaker to handle properly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Barbarian" had some good characters and good dialogue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (and really good production values) which led up to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fairly generic monster (albeit with an actual backstory,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good job on that too) and some familiar horror set pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused.  "The two guys" we first meet, Tess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Keith?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four?  And did they all
>>>>>>>>>>> have the same amount of screen time?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All had screen time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a
>>>>>>>>> clear, valid point that was beyond your ken.  Stop shitposting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that
>>>>>>>> all had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
>>>>>>>> sympathy/antipathy.   I'm still not sure whose demise irked you,
>>>>>>>> or why.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're either lying or confused or both.  Two of the four, the
>>>>>>> first guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was called,
>>>>>>> had onscreen time to develop an actual character with actual data
>>>>>>> about those characters.  Thus the audience has time to care what
>>>>>>> happens to these two and when they're treated as disposable the
>>>>>>> way teenagers are by Jason or Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers
>>>>>>> it's an unsatisfying situation.   As stated previously it's not
>>>>>>> like the Shining, to name one such movie/story does the opposite,
>>>>>>> we get to know the character but also watch hinm going off the
>>>>>>> rails so the end isn't disappointing but rather seems like the
>>>>>>> logical conclusion.  And I'm not a Stephen King fan but from a
>>>>>>> storytelling perspective he did well in his first three novels.
>>>>>>> Anyhow, I think in Barbarian the characters were handled in an
>>>>>>> unsatisfying way, and I doubt I'm the only one.  I also said it
>>>>>>> was good nonetheless and I look forward to seeing what the guy
>>>>>>> who wrote and directed, Zach Cregger, does next.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman Crothers
>>>>>> character, who was given considerable development but was also
>>>>>> offed out of the blue.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that.  I
>>>>> didn't read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the
>>>>> novel but I tend to doubt it.
>>>>
>>>> Good call!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>   In BARBARIAN, Keith was the 'Marion Crane' character,
>>>>>> whose job was to point the film in a clear direction in order for
>>>>>> his startling demise to whiplash the audience into a whole new
>>>>>> movie. Justin, meanwhile, was given (almost tongue-in-cheek) some
>>>>>> headline-fodder morality to deal with, which he resolves in a
>>>>>> manner that's not only totally unexpected, but also yanks away any
>>>>>> sympathy he might've accrued -- hardly a "disposable" exit.
>>>>>> (Also, as I mentioned earlier, imo his JEEPERS CREEPERS shout-out
>>>>>> was a hoot.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never saw Psycho but I'll take your word for it.  Robert Bloch
>>>>> was also a very good writer.
>>>>
>>>> I never *read* 'Psycho', but the movie is an indisputable cinematic
>>>> milestone.  (You probably didn't/won't understand that BARBARIAN is
>>>> a deliberate, clever remake/retread of much of it.)
>>>
>>>
>>> And you probably just skipped over my comment about the movie being
>>> influenced by the X-Files ep. "Home."  There was a comment on Reddit
>>> about this too.
>>
>> Yeah, I do well to recall having seen whole series, much less
>> individual episodes.  However, I see now that ep2 s4 "Home" was indeed
>> apparently special.  I've ordered it to watch again.  (No spoilers
>> now, please.)
>
>
> So, I watched 'Home' as promised, and now have a completely sideways
> question.  It makes extensive use of Johnny Mathis's iconic 'Wonderful
> Wonderful' (although clearly a "cover" of the original), and I'm
> wondering:  What's that signature train-whistle sounding instrument?

On 12/15/2022 6:27 PM, trotsky wrote:
> On 12/15/22 9:35 AM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/27/2022 10:43 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 11/27/2022 4:35 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>> On 11/26/22 5:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 11/26/2022 5:17 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/26/22 3:53 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:07 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/26/22 9:51 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/26/2022 3:51 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 9:21 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:28 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 4:34 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 5:32 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/22 1:05 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2022 6:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:31 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 7:29 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/22 9:57 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2022 5:53 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <tlkrt9$1566$11@gioia.aioe.org>, trotsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gmsingh@email.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/22 2:26 AM, super70s wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <hrreL.4912$BIx.3899@fx14.iad>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a dark Detroit rainstorm, a young woman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrives at her AirBNB (on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbary Street), only to find it occupied.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BARBARIAN, on HBOMax, is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small delight: a conventional horror-thriller
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done unconventionally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.  From this fan, it's well recommended.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm getting the free HBO/Cinemax "Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> preview" on regular cable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this week, looks like Barbarian is on Wednesday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night on HBOSIG at 10:05
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> p.m. CST, I'll be sure to check it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You should.  The first two thirds was good, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last reel was hokey in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I agree with you, not a lot of nuance at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end. For straight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up horror fans only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SPOILER - ish !!!!!)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree about the finale's nuance, but, yeah,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe I do it as a straight up horror-fan.  What I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saw was a delightful wrinkle in Justin Long's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> character arc as he resolves his moral doubts, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well as a subsequent shout-out to JEEPERS CREEPERS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moreover, once a horror-fan thinks about it, he'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recognize that he just re-watched PSYCHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel it's not good writing to write a character that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a viewer invests time and interest in only to fall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a typical horror trope and treat him or her as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disposable. Your mileage may vary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which character was treated as disposable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The two guys that found their ways into the house.  If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you think about it there's a reason why so many horror
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movies have a bunch of shallow teens getting killed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's hard to take too much of a liking to them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Occasionally, it can go the other way where there is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more interesting and complex character veering towards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the finale, as in "The Shining." That's a variation on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the theme and takes a good writer and/or filmmaker to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle properly. "Barbarian" had some good characters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and good dialogue (and really good production values)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which led up to a fairly generic monster (albeit with an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual backstory, good job on that too) and some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> familiar horror set pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really confused.  "The two guys" we first meet, Tess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Keith?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't remember which two male characters were killed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Four male characters were killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great and were you sympathetic to all four?  And did they
>>>>>>>>>>>> all have the same amount of screen time?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All had screen time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's not what I said, you're being obtuse because I made a
>>>>>>>>>> clear, valid point that was beyond your ken.  Stop shitposting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As all appeared in more than one extended scene, I'd argue that
>>>>>>>>> all had enough "screen time" -- and "backstory" -- to elicit
>>>>>>>>> sympathy/antipathy.   I'm still not sure whose demise irked
>>>>>>>>> you, or why.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're either lying or confused or both.  Two of the four, the
>>>>>>>> first guy Keith, and whatever Justin Long's character was
>>>>>>>> called, had onscreen time to develop an actual character with
>>>>>>>> actual data about those characters.  Thus the audience has time
>>>>>>>> to care what happens to these two and when they're treated as
>>>>>>>> disposable the way teenagers are by Jason or Freddy Krueger or
>>>>>>>> Michael Myers it's an unsatisfying situation.   As stated
>>>>>>>> previously it's not like the Shining, to name one such
>>>>>>>> movie/story does the opposite, we get to know the character but
>>>>>>>> also watch hinm going off the rails so the end isn't
>>>>>>>> disappointing but rather seems like the logical conclusion.  And
>>>>>>>> I'm not a Stephen King fan but from a storytelling perspective
>>>>>>>> he did well in his first three novels. Anyhow, I think in
>>>>>>>> Barbarian the characters were handled in an unsatisfying way,
>>>>>>>> and I doubt I'm the only one.  I also said it was good
>>>>>>>> nonetheless and I look forward to seeing what the guy who wrote
>>>>>>>> and directed, Zach Cregger, does next.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (I'll point out that the THE SHINING also had the Scatman
>>>>>>> Crothers character, who was given considerable development but
>>>>>>> was also offed out of the blue.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good call, I though Kubrick had a brain cramp when I saw that.  I
>>>>>> didn't read the book so I don't know if that was like that in the
>>>>>> novel but I tend to doubt it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good call!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>   In BARBARIAN, Keith was the 'Marion Crane' character,
>>>>>>> whose job was to point the film in a clear direction in order for
>>>>>>> his startling demise to whiplash the audience into a whole new
>>>>>>> movie. Justin, meanwhile, was given (almost tongue-in-cheek) some
>>>>>>> headline-fodder morality to deal with, which he resolves in a
>>>>>>> manner that's not only totally unexpected, but also yanks away
>>>>>>> any sympathy he might've accrued -- hardly a "disposable" exit.
>>>>>>> (Also, as I mentioned earlier, imo his JEEPERS CREEPERS shout-out
>>>>>>> was a hoot.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never saw Psycho but I'll take your word for it.  Robert Bloch
>>>>>> was also a very good writer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I never *read* 'Psycho', but the movie is an indisputable cinematic
>>>>> milestone.  (You probably didn't/won't understand that BARBARIAN is
>>>>> a deliberate, clever remake/retread of much of it.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And you probably just skipped over my comment about the movie being
>>>> influenced by the X-Files ep. "Home."  There was a comment on Reddit
>>>> about this too.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I do well to recall having seen whole series, much less
>>> individual episodes.  However, I see now that ep2 s4 "Home" was
>>> indeed apparently special.  I've ordered it to watch again.  (No
>>> spoilers now, please.)
>>
>>
>> So, I watched 'Home' as promised, and now have a completely sideways
>> question.  It makes extensive use of Johnny Mathis's iconic 'Wonderful
>> Wonderful' (although clearly a "cover" of the original), and I'm
>> wondering:  What's that signature train-whistle sounding instrument?
>
>
> I'll do some research and find out, but it's probably done by X-Files
> music guy Mark Snow on synthesizer.  So, what, you've no comment on the
> episode itself?