lay ga aur kia zaalim imtehaan sheeshay ka
ungliyon pe heeray ki hai nishan sheeshay ka

yahan per dusre misre ka kya matlab hua

aur ye shair
baikaraN samandar main mukhtasar jazeera hai
kashtian hain pathar ki baadbaan sheeshay ka

is ghazal ka pehla aur teesra shair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEQXPsgwW8

On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 2:46:54 PM UTC-6, bekas Murray wrote:

aadaab, Bakas sahib,

> lay ga aur kia zaalim imtehaan sheeshay ka
> ungliyon pe heeray ki hai nishan sheeshay ka
>
> yahan per dusre misre ka kya matlab hua

An Interesting she'r and an equally interesting question. Both the poet and the singer of this ghazal are new for me, thanks for sharing.

Here is my take on the matlaa, possibly rather simplistic and at its face value. In my view, the second misraa is an extension of the first. As I started thinking about this she'r, it took me back to my undergrad physical chemistry class. Diamond is the hardest substance, scoring a perfect 10 on the Moh's scale of hardness. Glass scores about 6, and diamond can actually cut glass.

I take this she'r to depict a tussle between the apparently stronger (D) and the weaker (G). G's hidden strength is being tested by the cruel strong D.. Instead of being broken, G is putting up a good fight and leaving an imprint on the hard fingers of D.
Go G!!!!!

D and G can depict different entities, one example being common citizens pitched against a political strongman.

> aur ye shair

> baikaraN samandar main mukhtasar jazeera hai
> kashtian hain pathar ki baadbaan sheeshay ka
>
> is ghazal ka pehla aur teesra shair
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEQXPsgwW8

If you buy my explanation for she'r #1, then I may venture to #3! :-)
Let us see what others have to say regarding this.

_________Zoya

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 12:26:41 PM UTC-8, Zoya wrote:
> On Monday, January 3, 2022 at 2:46:54 PM UTC-6, bekas Murray wrote:
>
> aadaab, Bakas sahib,
> > lay ga aur kia zaalim imtehaan sheeshay ka
> > ungliyon pe heeray ki hai nishan sheeshay ka
> >
> > yahan per dusre misre ka kya matlab hua
> An Interesting she'r and an equally interesting question. Both the poet and the singer of this ghazal are new for me, thanks for sharing.
>
> Here is my take on the matlaa, possibly rather simplistic and at its face value. In my view, the second misraa is an extension of the first. As I started thinking about this she'r, it took me back to my undergrad physical chemistry class. Diamond is the hardest substance, scoring a perfect 10 on the Moh's scale of hardness. Glass scores about 6, and diamond can actually cut glass.
>
> I take this she'r to depict a tussle between the apparently stronger (D) and the weaker (G). G's hidden strength is being tested by the cruel strong D. Instead of being broken, G is putting up a good fight and leaving an imprint on the hard fingers of D.
> Go G!!!!!
>
> D and G can depict different entities, one example being common citizens pitched against a political strongman.
> > aur ye shair
>

I came close to what you are suggesting but it seemed a bit far fetched. What I made of it was that the Zaalim (whoever it is) is making use of the diamond to cut the glass. Then one can go for a diamond tipped cutting pen to be the ungli :) and nishaan is the glass residue left on the diamond after the cut :) but what really is the imtehaan since using the diamond on the glass is just going to cut it?

> > baikaraN samandar main mukhtasar jazeera hai
> > kashtian hain pathar ki baadbaan sheeshay ka
> >
> > is ghazal ka pehla aur teesra shair
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CEQXPsgwW8
> If you buy my explanation for she'r #1, then I may venture to #3! :-)
> Let us see what others have to say regarding this.
>

Well my take on this was (and especially if we are going all chemistry here): The poet is stuck on the island and all he has are rocks to make boats (which will sink) and sand (silica/glass) to make sails :)

> _________Zoya

On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:12:57 PM UTC-6, bekas Murray wrote:

> > > lay ga aur kia zaalim imtehaan sheeshay ka
> > > ungliyon pe heeray ki hai nishan sheeshay ka

> I came close to what you are suggesting but it seemed a bit far fetched.

Oh well, if both of us thought along the same lines independently, it can't be that far fetched. :)

What I made of it was that the Zaalim (whoever it is) is making use of the diamond to cut the glass. Then one can go for a diamond tipped cutting pen to be the ungli :)

How interesting! And I thought Diamond himself [notice the gender :-)] was the zaalim, 'his' whole fingers being made of heera, not just the tips.

and nishaan is the glass residue left on the diamond after the cut :)

I really like this, the glass dust as residue sounds better than the scratches I was imagining.

but what really is the imtehaan since using the diamond on the glass is just going to cut it?

Well, me thinks the test is how far the weak can be pushed, how hard they will fight back even in the face of certain 'death'.

> > > baikaraN samandar main mukhtasar jazeera hai
> > > kashtian hain pathar ki baadbaan sheeshay ka

> Well my take on this was (and especially if we are going all chemistry here): The poet is stuck on the island and all he has are rocks to make boats (which will sink) and sand (silica/glass) to make sails :)

This sounds good to me. What made me pause was' muKhtasar', I was wondering maybe the island itself is temporary, short lived? I like your take that it is the stay on the island (in the middle of this turbulent sea) that is temporary. And yes of course, sand as sails! Yup, I have actually seen some beautiful sand blown glass art pieces, in a seaside glass museum during a visit to the white sandy Florida coast. Sand sails, I get it, very visual!

I am glad you started this thread; it's been fun. Any other asha'ar you want to delve in? I am game! :-)

_______Zoya

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 3:47:55 PM UTC-8, Zoya wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 4, 2022 at 3:12:57 PM UTC-6, bekas Murray wrote:
>
> > > > lay ga aur kia zaalim imtehaan sheeshay ka
> > > > ungliyon pe heeray ki hai nishan sheeshay ka
> > I came close to what you are suggesting but it seemed a bit far fetched..
> Oh well, if both of us thought along the same lines independently, it can't be that far fetched. :)
> What I made of it was that the Zaalim (whoever it is) is making use of the diamond to cut the glass. Then one can go for a diamond tipped cutting pen to be the ungli :)
> How interesting! And I thought Diamond himself [notice the gender :-)] was the zaalim, 'his' whole fingers being made of heera, not just the tips.
> and nishaan is the glass residue left on the diamond after the cut :)
> I really like this, the glass dust as residue sounds better than the scratches I was imagining.
> but what really is the imtehaan since using the diamond on the glass is just going to cut it?
> Well, me thinks the test is how far the weak can be pushed, how hard they will fight back even in the face of certain 'death'.
> > > > baikaraN samandar main mukhtasar jazeera hai
> > > > kashtian hain pathar ki baadbaan sheeshay ka
> > Well my take on this was (and especially if we are going all chemistry here): The poet is stuck on the island and all he has are rocks to make boats (which will sink) and sand (silica/glass) to make sails :)
> This sounds good to me. What made me pause was' muKhtasar', I was wondering maybe the island itself is temporary, short lived? I like your take that it is the stay on the island (in the middle of this turbulent sea) that is temporary. And yes of course, sand as sails! Yup, I have actually seen some beautiful sand blown glass art pieces, in a seaside glass museum during a visit to the white sandy Florida coast. Sand sails, I get it, very visual!
>
> I am glad you started this thread; it's been fun. Any other asha'ar you want to delve in? I am game! :-)
>
The poet is listed as Aitzaz Ahsan. Wondering if this is the famous Pakistani lawyer and politician (former interior and law minister and current leader of opposition in the senate). He has written poems before usually about the politics. So this may be a political poem. In this case the shair can be interpreted as a usurper using the power at his disposal to crush the weak. The other ash'aar also fit in with the topic
patharon se darta hoon aandhion se darta hoon
jab se main ne dala hai ik makaan sheeshay ka

aitzaz ye basti saa'e ko tarasti hai
saaray chhat hain sheshay kay saibaan sheeshay ka

Masood Malik first became famous for singing this ghazal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGUihqswdTo

Here is aitzaz ahsan (the politician) reading one of his poems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ll4GO5sOXc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kga89kAe9ds

One final interpretation for the first shair
The zaalim, usurper is like kaido and then in the second misra heeray refers to heer (of heer-ranjha) who was poisoned by kaido with a poisoned drink. As you can see in his other poem aitzaz does refer to heer ranjha among other folk characters. Though refering to heer as heeray may not quite fit in with the style of the poem (though heer is often referred to as heeray in punjabi but probably such a construction in Urdu may not work). Which brings me to another question: When can nouns or names have the bari yay modification?
Sometimes it can be done with names ending in alif. For example
unglion pe ranjhay ki (ranjha referred to as ranjhay). Though you could also say unglion pe ranjha ki.
unglion pe raadhay ki and also unglion per raadhaa ki are both acceptable.

but if talking about the poet sauda it sounds odd to say unglion pe sauday ki. One would rather say unglion pe sauda ki.
for nouns
unglion pe baba ki our unglion pe babay ki both are ok but I think the first refers to a very specific baba while the other would refer to a general baba.
unglion pe chacha ki. unglion pe chchachay ki

> _______Zoya

how I read this is... heere ki ungliyon par sheehe ke nishaan pad gaye...
like Nida Fazli said
raste meiN wo mila tha main bachkar guzar gaya,
uski phati kameez mere sath ho gayi...

ya thoda thoda Munawwar Rana ke sher jaisa

ye fUn koi faqeer sikhayega aapko,
heere ko ek phool ki patti se kaatna...

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 9:43:49 PM UTC-6, bekas Murray wrote:

> The poet is listed as Aitzaz Ahsan. Wondering if this is the famous Pakistani lawyer and politician (former interior and law minister and current leader of opposition in the senate). He has written poems before usually about the politics. So this may be a political poem. In this case the shair can be interpreted as a usurper using the power at his disposal to crush the weak. The other ash'aar also fit in with the topic
> patharon se darta hoon aandhion se darta hoon
> jab se main ne dala hai ik makaan sheeshay ka
>
> aitzaz ye basti saa'e ko tarasti hai
> saaray chhat hain sheshay kay saibaan sheeshay ka

I think you are on target here, having explored Aitzaz Ahsan and his writings a bit more, this ghazal definitely sounds like his work. Our interpretation of the asha'ar may not have been too far fetched after all!

> Masood Malik first became famous for singing this ghazal
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGUihqswdTo

Now this ghazal I am totally familiar with. One of my very close friends is a local radio show host and has played this numerous times over the years, I didn't remember the name of the singer. Every time I would listen to this particular she'r:

vasl kii shab aur itnii kaalii
un aaNkhoN meN kaajal hogaa

It immediately reminded me of the contrast in Jigar Muradabadi's sher:

aaj na jaane raaz yeh kyaa hai
hijr ki raat aur itnii raushan

Interestingly though, I could not recall the name of the poet of "ham tum hoNge", had to look it up.

> Here is aitzaz ahsan (the politician) reading one of his poems
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ll4GO5sOXc
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kga89kAe9ds

Very powerful!! Thanks for sharing. I will have to listen to this long poem more than once to get the full impact, it is a lesson in history. The good thing is that despite everything from the past, the poet ends on a hopeful note for the future, "jiit hamaara mustaqbil hai".

> One final interpretation for the first shair
> The zaalim, usurper is like kaido and then in the second misra heeray refers to heer (of heer-ranjha) who was poisoned by kaido with a poisoned drink. As you can see in his other poem aitzaz does refer to heer ranjha among other folk characters.

I did notice that in the long poem, reference to Heer Ranjha and even Chuchak. But I don't think there is any connection with Heer in the she'r under discussion, I believe it is the harsh diamond that the poet has in mind here.

Though refering to heer as heeray may not quite fit in with the style of the poem (though heer is often referred to as heeray in punjabi but probably such a construction in Urdu may not work). Which brings me to another question: When can nouns or names have the bari yay modification?
> Sometimes it can be done with names ending in alif. For example
> unglion pe ranjhay ki (ranjha referred to as ranjhay). Though you could also say unglion pe ranjha ki.
> unglion pe raadhay ki and also unglion per raadhaa ki are both acceptable..

> but if talking about the poet sauda it sounds odd to say unglion pe sauday ki. One would rather say unglion pe sauda ki.
> for nouns
> unglion pe baba ki our unglion pe babay ki both are ok but I think the first refers to a very specific baba while the other would refer to a general baba.
> unglion pe chacha ki. unglion pe chchachay ki

Hmmmmm, food for thought. However, I am not a linguist by any measure and can't make any general statements regarding this.

But I am now reminded of a delightful song from my childhood, in the legendary Punjabi singer Surinder Kaur's voice, written by the legendary Punjabi poet Shiv Kumar Batalvi. It is definitely worth a listen:

"maiN nu Heere Heere aakhe haaye ni muNDa lambRaaN daa" :-))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5OoDd-mYZA

From Massod Malik to Surinder Kaur, Aitzaz Ahsan to Shiv Kumar! Such fun. :)

_______Zoya

On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:49:15 PM UTC-6, Mohit wrote:
> how I read this is... heere ki ungliyon par sheehe ke nishaan pad gaye... .
> ya thoda thoda Munawwar Rana ke sher jaisa
>
> ye fUn koi faqeer sikhayega aapko,
> heere ko ek phool ki patti se kaatna...

Mohit, Thanks. This she'r is just awesome, perfectly apt for this thread.

Bekas sahib, there go our chemistry facts! How can one argue with such poetic logic? :)

_______Zoya

On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 8:36:57 AM UTC-8, Zoya wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 5, 2022 at 10:49:15 PM UTC-6, Mohit wrote:
> > how I read this is... heere ki ungliyon par sheehe ke nishaan pad gaye... .
> > ya thoda thoda Munawwar Rana ke sher jaisa
> >
> > ye fUn koi faqeer sikhayega aapko,
> > heere ko ek phool ki patti se kaatna...
> Mohit, Thanks. This she'r is just awesome, perfectly apt for this thread.
>
> Bekas sahib, there go our chemistry facts! How can one argue with such poetic logic? :)
>
antabah: aisay faqeeron say hoshiyaar rahain :)

Ye daikh leejeyay faqeer bhi haqeeqat main heere kaisay kaat rahay hain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OLI_Pthu0o

> _______Zoya

On Saturday, January 8, 2022 at 3:33:33 PM UTC-6, bekas Murray wrote:

> > > ye fUn koi faqeer sikhayega aapko,
> > > heere ko ek phool ki patti se kaatna...
> > Mohit, Thanks. This she'r is just awesome, perfectly apt for this thread.
> >
> > Bekas sahib, there go our chemistry facts! How can one argue with such poetic logic? :)
> >
> antabah: aisay faqeeron say hoshiyaar rahain :)

aap kii is baat par jaane kyuN is vaqt mere tasavvur meN 'Prem Jyotish' aur 'Ajmeri Baba' type 'so called faqeer' aa rahe haiN! :)

> Ye daikh leejeyay faqeer bhi haqeeqat main heere kaisay kaat rahay hain
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OLI_Pthu0o

Bekas sahib, yeh video to kaafi educational hai!
You know what, I must confess that a few years ago before buying my solitaires, I actually did a lot of research on the four Cs and watched several videos like this one. Oh and, if you ever buy any diamonds, make sure they are GIA certified. :)
I know I know, we are getting far away from 'faqeeri', but you posted the link, and my female vanity has kicked in, so now you have to bear with me! :-)