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arts / alt.arts.poetry.comments / Re: Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?

SubjectAuthor
* Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?Ilya Shambat
`- Re: Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?Michael Pendragon

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Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?

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Subject: Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?
From: ibsham...@gmail.com (Ilya Shambat)
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 by: Ilya Shambat - Thu, 13 Oct 2022 01:03 UTC

One tenet of feminists is that men’s expectations of women are burdensome to women.

They are correct. Men’s expectations can very well be burdensome to women. But so can the feminists’ expectations.

There are many women who willingly choose the traditional female role. These women should have a right to their choice. A woman who wants to be free of men’s expectations should have a right to her choices. But so should a woman who prefers men’s expectations over feminists’ expectations.

Sometimes men’s expectations can be bad for the woman. At other times they are for the better. While there are many women who want nothing to do with beauty – and they have every right to want nothing to do with beauty - there are other women who enjoy being beautiful. Many Swedish women are very beautiful; and feminism there is more advanced than it is in the United States. There is no contradiction between beauty and strength, and there is no contradiction between “outer beauty” and “inner beauty.” The more American people deal with Russian women, the more they will realize this.

In many cases it’s not about living up to men’s expectations. It is about excellence, and it is about being one’s best. And these are values that transcend gender.

I had a girlfriend, raised in a matriarchal setting, who said that she preferred male authority over female authority because in case of men there was frequently erotic attraction whereas with women it’s “what do you cow know about.” My former wife, also raised in a matriarchal setting, used to work for a female-run organization, and they were absolutely horrible to her. So we have followers of Eminem, who are tired of matriarchal abuse and prefer violence by mean but sexy young men over emotional bullying by mean, unattractive older women. Now I detest Eminem’s message of violence to women, and I have written extensively on the subject. However when women raised in matriarchal setting find him attractive, it shows just how far we have gone.

So that while patriarchy’s expectations can be burdensome to women, so can matriarchy’s expectations. And there will be many women who prefer male authority over female authority. The feminists do not speak for women, and in claiming to do so they commit a vast and illegitimate power grab. For that matter, the Father’s Rights types do not speak for men either, and I have told them so. Be free of both men’s expectations and feminists’ expectations, or choose one or the other. And in this actually affirm liberty.

Re: Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?

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Subject: Re: Patriarchy and Matriarchy: Whose expectations are more burdensome?
From: michaelm...@gmail.com (Michael Pendragon)
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 by: Michael Pendragon - Thu, 13 Oct 2022 02:22 UTC

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 9:03:19 PM UTC-4, ibsh...@gmail.com wrote:
> One tenet of feminists is that men’s expectations of women are burdensome to women.
>
> They are correct. Men’s expectations can very well be burdensome to women. But so can the feminists’ expectations.
>
> There are many women who willingly choose the traditional female role. These women should have a right to their choice. A woman who wants to be free of men’s expectations should have a right to her choices. But so should a woman who prefers men’s expectations over feminists’ expectations.
>
> Sometimes men’s expectations can be bad for the woman. At other times they are for the better. While there are many women who want nothing to do with beauty – and they have every right to want nothing to do with beauty - there are other women who enjoy being beautiful. Many Swedish women are very beautiful; and feminism there is more advanced than it is in the United States. There is no contradiction between beauty and strength, and there is no contradiction between “outer beauty” and “inner beauty.” The more American people deal with Russian women, the more they will realize this.
>
> In many cases it’s not about living up to men’s expectations. It is about excellence, and it is about being one’s best. And these are values that transcend gender.
>
> I had a girlfriend, raised in a matriarchal setting, who said that she preferred male authority over female authority because in case of men there was frequently erotic attraction whereas with women it’s “what do you cow know about.” My former wife, also raised in a matriarchal setting, used to work for a female-run organization, and they were absolutely horrible to her. So we have followers of Eminem, who are tired of matriarchal abuse and prefer violence by mean but sexy young men over emotional bullying by mean, unattractive older women. Now I detest Eminem’s message of violence to women, and I have written extensively on the subject. However when women raised in matriarchal setting find him attractive, it shows just how far we have gone.
>
> So that while patriarchy’s expectations can be burdensome to women, so can matriarchy’s expectations. And there will be many women who prefer male authority over female authority. The feminists do not speak for women, and in claiming to do so they commit a vast and illegitimate power grab. For that matter, the Father’s Rights types do not speak for men either, and I have told them so. Be free of both men’s expectations and feminists’ expectations, or choose one or the other. And in this actually affirm liberty.
>

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