https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/

Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.

North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.

The appeals court's ruling isn't a final judgment. Rather, the court held
that a lower court was wrong not to temporarily halt enforcement against
the state's attorney general as his challenge to the law finished playing
out. But in doing so, appeals court judges also held that the attorney
general's challenge was likely right on the merits of the case and that it
was difficult to imagine him losing.

The case stems from the attempted prosecution of Josh Stein, North
Carolina's Democratic attorney general (and, now, a candidate for
governor). Stein was up for reelection in 2020 and ran against Republican
Forsyth County District Attorney Jim O'Neill. One of Stein's campaign ads
said "O'Neill left 1,500 rape kits on a shelf."

O'Neill alleged this criticism was inaccurate because police-- not
prosecutors-- are in charge of processing rape kits.

He filed a complaint with North Carolina's Board of Elections, accusing
Stein of violating a 1931 North Carolina law that criminalizes "derogatory"
campaign ads that candidates know "to be false or in reckless disregard of
its truth or falsity, when such report is calculated or intended to affect
the chances of such candidate for nomination or election."

The board didn't recommend criminal charges be brought. Nonetheless, Wake
County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman planned to propose charges before a
state grand jury last summer.

Going on the offensive, Stein sued to stop the prosecution. A district
court declined to issue a preliminary injunction against the law.

Now, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has handed Stein a preliminary
victory, overturning the district court's denial of the injunction and
declaring the law he was to be charged under "likely unconstitutional for
two reasons".

"First, the Act appears to criminalize at least some truthful statements--
a result the 1st Amendment forbids," wrote Judge Toby J. Heytens, pointing
out that the court could not find "any source suggesting 'derogatory'
refers exclusively to factually false statements." Because of this, the law
could have "chilling effects on truthful speech during political
campaigns."

"Second, even if the Act reaches only false statements, it makes
impermissible content-based distinctions in selecting which speech to
forbid," Heytens wrote.

The law doesn't, for instance, ban "inflating a candidate's credentials or
promoting self-aggrandizing falsehoods, nor does it touch knowing
falsehoods that undermine the perception of electoral integrity without
referencing a particular candidate." And "under this statute, speakers may
lie with impunity about businesspeople, celebrities, purely private
citizens, or even government officials so long as the victim is not
currently a 'candidate in any primary or election.' That is textbook
content discrimination," which the 1st Amendment forbids.

The appeals court vacated the district court's order denying a preliminary
injunction and sent the case back to the district court "for further
proceedings consistent with this opinion."

> BTR1701
>
> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/
>
> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
>
> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.

And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.

Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>BTR1701

>>https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/

>>Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
>>Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.

>>North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
>>unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.

>And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
>by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.

You've called 'em all liars! Perhaps.

On 2023-02-10 7:07 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> BTR1701
>>
>> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/
>>
>> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
>> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
>>
>> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
>> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.
>
> And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
> by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.

If politicians weren't allowed to lie while campaigning, what on earth
would they SAY? You can only talk about the weather so long....

--
Rhino

In article <ts6msu$16gnl$1@dont-email.me>,
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

> On 2023-02-10 7:07 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> >> BTR1701
> >>
> >> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-t
> >> o-lie-to-you/
> >>
> >> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
> >> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
> >>
> >> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
> >> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.
> >
> > And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
> > by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.
>
> If politicians weren't allowed to lie while campaigning, what on earth
> would they SAY? You can only talk about the weather so long....

They even lie about the weather ('climate change').

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>On 2023-02-10 7:07 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:

>>>BTR1701

>>>https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/

>>>Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
>>>Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.

>>>North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
>>>unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.

>>And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
>>by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.

>If politicians weren't allowed to lie while campaigning, what on earth
>would they SAY? You can only talk about the weather so long....

Haw

On 2023-02-10 7:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ts6msu$16gnl$1@dont-email.me>,
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-10 7:07 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> BTR1701
>>>>
>>>> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-t
>>>> o-lie-to-you/
>>>>
>>>> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
>>>> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
>>>>
>>>> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
>>>> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.
>>>
>>> And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
>>> by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.
>>
>> If politicians weren't allowed to lie while campaigning, what on earth
>> would they SAY? You can only talk about the weather so long....
>
> They even lie about the weather ('climate change').

Good point!

--
Rhino

On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 5:46:35 PM UTC-6, BTR1701 wrote:
> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/
>
> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.

I am so anxious about it tonight

mk5000

Truthfully (Truthfully)
Honestly (Honestly)
I need, I need, I need to believe
I wanna let go, but I don’t really know==Sevyn Streeter – Before I Do

On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 6:18:43 PM UTC-6, Rhino wrote:
> On 2023-02-10 7:07 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> >> BTR1701
> >>
> >> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/
> >>
> >> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
> >> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
> >>
> >> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
> >> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.
> >
> > And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
> > by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.
> If politicians weren't allowed to lie while campaigning, what on earth
> would they SAY? You can only talk about the weather so long....
>
> --
All in all pretty encouraging in the face of all the violence
Fingers crossed on tomorrow

Feels like winter not spring up here but the flowers are wonderful

mk5000

I wanna ride ’til the sun just
I like the sound my name on your tongue
‘Cause you got the woah, baby
That’s right, you the bomb==Rich the Kid – Woah

On 2/10/23 6:30 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ts6msu$16gnl$1@dont-email.me>,
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-10 7:07 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> BTR1701
>>>>
>>>> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-t
>>>> o-lie-to-you/
>>>>
>>>> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
>>>> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
>>>>
>>>> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
>>>> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.
>>>
>>> And they're right, a lying politicians free speech can be countered
>>> by another politician's (or anybody's) free speech.
>>
>> If politicians weren't allowed to lie while campaigning, what on earth
>> would they SAY? You can only talk about the weather so long....
>
> They even lie about the weather ('climate change').

I have a mental image of horseshit literally coming out of your mouth,
like that time you literally drove off a cliff.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/

Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago

A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before
it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation

I get it, though, facts are the enemy of all right wing assholes. What new.

On 2/10/2023 6:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> https://reason.com/2023/02/10/do-politicians-have-a-first-amendment-right-to-lie-to-you/
>
> Do politicians have a 1st Amendment right to lie on the campaign trail?
> Probably so, suggests a federal court in a new ruling.
>
> North Carolina's ban on dishonesty in political campaigns is "facially
> unconstitutional," the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit said.
>
> The appeals court's ruling isn't a final judgment. Rather, the court held
> that a lower court was wrong not to temporarily halt enforcement against
> the state's attorney general as his challenge to the law finished playing
> out. But in doing so, appeals court judges also held that the attorney
> general's challenge was likely right on the merits of the case and that it
> was difficult to imagine him losing.
>
> The case stems from the attempted prosecution of Josh Stein, North
> Carolina's Democratic attorney general (and, now, a candidate for
> governor). Stein was up for reelection in 2020 and ran against Republican
> Forsyth County District Attorney Jim O'Neill. One of Stein's campaign ads
> said "O'Neill left 1,500 rape kits on a shelf."
>
> O'Neill alleged this criticism was inaccurate because police-- not
> prosecutors-- are in charge of processing rape kits.
>
> He filed a complaint with North Carolina's Board of Elections, accusing
> Stein of violating a 1931 North Carolina law that criminalizes "derogatory"
> campaign ads that candidates know "to be false or in reckless disregard of
> its truth or falsity, when such report is calculated or intended to affect
> the chances of such candidate for nomination or election."
>
> The board didn't recommend criminal charges be brought. Nonetheless, Wake
> County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman planned to propose charges before a
> state grand jury last summer.
>
> Going on the offensive, Stein sued to stop the prosecution. A district
> court declined to issue a preliminary injunction against the law.
>
> Now, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has handed Stein a preliminary
> victory, overturning the district court's denial of the injunction and
> declaring the law he was to be charged under "likely unconstitutional for
> two reasons".
>
> "First, the Act appears to criminalize at least some truthful statements--
> a result the 1st Amendment forbids," wrote Judge Toby J. Heytens, pointing
> out that the court could not find "any source suggesting 'derogatory'
> refers exclusively to factually false statements." Because of this, the law
> could have "chilling effects on truthful speech during political
> campaigns."
>
> "Second, even if the Act reaches only false statements, it makes
> impermissible content-based distinctions in selecting which speech to
> forbid," Heytens wrote.
>
> The law doesn't, for instance, ban "inflating a candidate's credentials or
> promoting self-aggrandizing falsehoods, nor does it touch knowing
> falsehoods that undermine the perception of electoral integrity without
> referencing a particular candidate." And "under this statute, speakers may
> lie with impunity about businesspeople, celebrities, purely private
> citizens, or even government officials so long as the victim is not
> currently a 'candidate in any primary or election.' That is textbook
> content discrimination," which the 1st Amendment forbids.
>
> The appeals court vacated the district court's order denying a preliminary
> injunction and sent the case back to the district court "for further
> proceedings consistent with this opinion."

"...truthful speech during political campaigns". How quaint...