Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
history were:
1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861
2. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
But now, thanks to Biden’s disastrous incompetence, Carter has
moved down a notch! As old senile Joe grabs the number two slot,
Jimmy Carter moves down to fourth worst!
1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861.
2. Joe Biden 2021 – 2024
3. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
4. Jimmy Carter 1977 – 1981
So, congratulations Jimmy, thanks for your community service after
you left the Whitehouse and R.I.P.

Irish Mike

On 2/19/23 3:35 AM, RichA wrote:
> On Sunday, 19 February 2023 at 00:59:39 UTC-5, Irish Mike wrote:
>> Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>> history were:
>> 1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861
>> 2. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
>> 3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>> But now, thanks to Biden’s disastrous incompetence, Carter has
>> moved down a notch! As old senile Joe grabs the number two slot,
>> Jimmy Carter moves down to fourth worst!
>> 1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861.
>> 2. Joe Biden 2021 – 2024
>> 3. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
>> 4. Jimmy Carter 1977 – 1981 > So, congratulations Jimmy, thanks for your community service after
>> you left the Whitehouse and R.I.P.
>>
>> Irish Mike
>
> I'd argue Bill Clinton was the worst president ever.
> -His bank policies resulted in the 2008 economic meltdown.
> -His dot.com economy was a house of cards which collapsed, taking 4 trillion $$$ with it.
> -He disarmed Ukraine (along with Obama years later) which allowed the Russkie invasion.
> -He allowed Osama Bin Laden to escape from assassination, twice.
> -He failed to harden U.S. security after the bombing of the World Trade Center.
> -He was a serial liar and an elitist.
> -His political background is sinister and highly-suspect. This continued during and after he was
> in office.

Reagan is the worst I've ever seen. The release of the hostages was a
total scam as was the utter lie about "trickle down" economics which was
just a series of tax cuts for the wealthy. Then there was illegal arms
dealing, and the part where he wasn't really President at all, just a
vegetable with Alzheimer's. Pure horseshit.

irishranger317@gmail.com wrote:

>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American history were:
>
>1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861
>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>
>But now, thanks to Biden’s disastrous incompetence, Carter has
> moved down a notch! As old senile Joe grabs the number two slot,
>Jimmy Carter moves down to fourth worst!
>
>1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861.
>2. Joe Biden 2021 – 2024
>3. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
>4. Jimmy Carter 1977 – 1981
>
>So, congratulations Jimmy, thanks for your community service after
>you left the Whitehouse and R.I.P.

Obama should be the 2nds worst on this list but yeah, history's greatest
monster would be getting plastic surgery to remove the smile from his face if
it mattered.

--
Let's go Brandon!

Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
> history were:

>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

I have no idea what your criteria were, other than random hatred and a
poor grasp of history. Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.

Herbert Hoover was similarly saddled with being the cause of the
collapse that resulted in the Great Depression, but he was not at fault
for international failure of free world trade during the post WWI era.

Might as well blame the Hoover Dam for today's exhaustion of the
Colorado River.

Did you even consider two men who were quite brilliant but damn well
knew better, who failed to stand up for liberty as it interfered with
short-term expediency? John Adams and Woodrow Wilson. During their
administrations, Congress passed acts that were the most hostile to
speech and press ever seen in America entirely at the urging of their
administrations. At least the Alien and Sedition Acts sunsetted with the
expiration of Adams' first term (and he didn't get a second term). The
Espionage Act remains on the books to this day and is largely not held
to be unconstitutional. It was illegal to criticize Wilson's little war,
you know, the one he ran on promising not to entangle the United States
in.

For long-term censorship, how about the Comstock Act? U.S. Grant was
president. Despite the Republican Party's commitment to liberty during
Reconstruction, Grant still signed a bill that censored the U.S. Mail,
allowing any mail to be opened in a warrantless search.

How about Andrew Johnson, who did everything he possibly could to thwart
Reconstruction and was quite successful at in by appointing Supreme
Court justices dedicated to counter-Reconstruction and therefore making
state Jim Crow laws not unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment?

How about Rutherford B. Hayes and the stolen election of 1876, who made
the dirty deal to end Reconstruction and set back all the civil rights
gains, even though he was a Republican?

Just so you don't deliberately misread what I've written as you are wont
to do, the civil rights legisation passed by the Republicans in Congress
was the morally right thing to do and the Reconstruction Era was a lost
opportunity for America to truly become what it was promised to be, a
society rooted in liberty.

Traditionally, the worst president in recent memory is stated to be
George W. Bush, whom you seem to have forgotten got us into not one but
two major wars with very long term conflicts, something no president
before him had managed to achieve. Jeeze, even the Viet Nam War didn't
officially overlap the Korean War.

GWB also started the United States on the path to insurmountable
enormous massive national debt and this was BEFORE the 2008 recession.

>But now, thanks to Biden's disastrous incompetence, Carter has
> moved down a notch! As old senile Joe grabs the number two slot,
>Jimmy Carter moves down to fourth worst!
>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861.
>2. Joe Biden 2021 - 2024
>3. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>4. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>So, congratulations Jimmy, thanks for your community service after
>you left the Whitehouse and R.I.P.

Hospice, not yet dead, doofus

>Irish Mike

We all know what you truly are but it isn't what you pretend to be.

In article <tstdjn$e0ap$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
> > history were:
>
> >1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
> >2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
> >3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

> John Adams and Woodrow Wilson
> U.S. Grant
> Andrew Johnson
> Rutherford B. Hayes
> George W. Bush

Warren Harding is sorely missing from your list.

No learned historian worth their salt would back Allegedly Irish Mike's
horseshit up.

super70s@super70s.invalid wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>> history were:

>>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

>>John Adams and Woodrow Wilson
>>U.S. Grant
>>Andrew Johnson
>>Rutherford B. Hayes
>>George W. Bush

>Warren Harding is sorely missing from your list.

Hold it. I know you are thinking of Credit Mobilier and Teapot Dome. I
don't blame Grant nor Harding for either of those scandals. The two of
them did surround themselves with slime that created conditions in which
those scandals occurred. I would even argue that many good things were
done under both Grant and Harding despite the ignominy of the scandals
that forever tarnished their reputations. Hamilton Fish may have been
the finest Secretary of State we've ever had.

Even under Hoover, good things happened thanks to his policies, but
neither Hoover nor Calvin Coolidge understood the precarious nature of
the US economy.

It's not a list of worst presidents. I'm just pointing out that
not-Irish made a list by taking cheap shots and that's not legitimate.
I'm pointing out things that must be taken into account in considering
things that happened during an administration that ruin reputations.

I don't think it's fair to list Bush because I'm not far enough removed
from his presidency, but yeah, I don't see some future president getting
the United States into three wars so he'll probably make the list.

Trump, as despicable a human being as he is, just doesn't come close to
the disaster that was George W. Bush.

>No learned historian worth their salt would back Allegedly Irish Mike's
>horseshit up.

There's good and bad under every president. Even Trump noticed that
Jerusalem is Israel's capital.

On 19 Feb 2023 at 09:01:12 CST, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
> for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
> two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
> opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
> find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.

Like electing somebody other than Lincoln?

On 18 Feb 2023 at 23:59:35 CST, "Irish Mike" <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

> Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
> history were:
> 1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861
> 2. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
> 3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

"Worst" apparently being defined as those who didn't get the country involved
in unnecessary wars, unlike Lyndon Johnson, George W Bush, Woodrow Wilson, and
many others.

On 19 Feb 2023 at 10:07:01 CST, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Even Trump noticed that Jerusalem is Israel's capital.

And that a woman who requests an abortion is morally culpable along with the
doctor who performs it. Of course, both these policy positions (on Jerusalem
and abortion) generated eye-rolls among sophisticates on the right and on the
left, who know that you're not supposed to notice, or at least not talk about,
certain things. Now, about race and crime rates . . .

In article <tstdjn$e0ap$1@dont-email.me>, ahk@chinet.com wrote:

> Traditionally, the worst president in recent memory is stated to be
> George W. Bush

TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

In article <tsthf5$edp0$1@dont-email.me>, ahk@chinet.com wrote:

>Trump, as despicable a human being as he is, just doesn't come close to
>the disaster that was George W. Bush.

TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

In article <tstlg4$eteb$1@dont-email.me>, nmassello@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 19 Feb 2023 at 10:07:01 CST, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>> Even Trump noticed that Jerusalem is Israel's capital.
>
> And that a woman who requests an abortion is morally culpable along
> with the doctor who performs it.

TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 11:07:05 AM UTC-5, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> supe...@super70s.invalid wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Irish Mike <irishra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
> >>> history were:
>
> >>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
> >>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
> >>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

> There's good and bad under every president. Even Trump noticed that
> Jerusalem is Israel's capital.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/President_Trump_at_the_Israeli_American_Council_National_Summit_%2849193133993%29_%28cropped%29.jpg

tags: it's all about the Benjamins baby

https://quincyinst.org/2021/01/12/sheldon-adelsons-legacy-of-underwriting-american-militarism/

tags:“I’m a one-issue person. That issue is Israel,”

tags: your government has been hijacked, .... well, not YOUR government

tags: shill #1

Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 18 Feb 2023 at 23:59:35 CST, "Irish Mike" <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>> history were:
>> 1. James Buchanan 1857 – 1861
>> 2. Herbert Hoover 1929 – 1933
>> 3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>
> "Worst" apparently being defined as those who didn't get the country involved
> in unnecessary wars, unlike Lyndon Johnson, George W Bush, Woodrow Wilson, and
> many others.
>

Any “worst of” list that doesn’t include LBJ is sadly lacking.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 19 Feb 2023 at 09:01:12 CST, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
>>for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
>>two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
>>opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
>>find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.

>Like electing somebody other than Lincoln?

The South objected to the Republican Party nominating Lincoln. Then they
didn't even have him on the ballot in 9 states. Then the Democratic
Party split because the South refused to support Douglas; they supported
Breckinridge instead. There was a coalition of ex-Whig Party and
ex-Democraticsw that nominated Bell.

I'm not sure by 1860 what you imagine a peaceful transition into an era
in which slaves were freed and civil rights were enforced. The Civil War
killed more Americans than any other war so it's not possible to justify
in hindsight.

They were supposed to negotiate an end to slavery by 1808 when the Slave
Clause took effect, but that language was incredibly weak and merely
prohibited the importation of slaves.

Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 18 Feb 2023 at 23:59:35 CST, "Irish Mike" <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>history were:
>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

>"Worst" apparently being defined as those who didn't get the country involved
>in unnecessary wars, unlike Lyndon Johnson, George W Bush, Woodrow Wilson, and
>many others.

Again: The origin of the United States misadventure in Afghanistan began
with US foreign policy changes under Carter and then the abandonment of
the Mujahideen to Saudi Wahhabi Islamic missionary clerics under Reagan.
These people radicalized into Wahhabism became the Taliban.

Zbigniew Brzezinski, with Carter's blessing, thought it would make the
Cold War go in the United States favor if just enough trouble could be
stirred up against the Soviet-backed government in Afghanistan that the
Soviets could be tricked into invading.

In article <tsthf5$edp0$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> super70s@super70s.invalid wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
> >>> history were:
>
> >>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
> >>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
> >>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>
> >>John Adams and Woodrow Wilson
> >>U.S. Grant
> >>Andrew Johnson
> >>Rutherford B. Hayes
> >>George W. Bush
>
> >Warren Harding is sorely missing from your list.
>
> Hold it. I know you are thinking of Credit Mobilier and Teapot Dome. I
> don't blame Grant nor Harding for either of those scandals. The two of
> them did surround themselves with slime that created conditions in which
> those scandals occurred. I would even argue that many good things were
> done under both Grant and Harding despite the ignominy of the scandals
> that forever tarnished their reputations.

Harding is generally considered to be one of the worst presidents ever.

> It's not a list of worst presidents.

Okay whatever.

super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>super70s@super70s.invalid wrote:
>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>>>> history were:

>>>>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>>>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>>>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

>>>>John Adams and Woodrow Wilson
>>>>U.S. Grant
>>>>Andrew Johnson
>>>>Rutherford B. Hayes
>>>>George W. Bush

>>>Warren Harding is sorely missing from your list.

>>Hold it. I know you are thinking of Credit Mobilier and Teapot Dome. I
>>don't blame Grant nor Harding for either of those scandals. The two of
>>them did surround themselves with slime that created conditions in which
>>those scandals occurred. I would even argue that many good things were
>>done under both Grant and Harding despite the ignominy of the scandals
>>that forever tarnished their reputations.

>Harding is generally considered to be one of the worst presidents ever.

Fair enough. But he was good looking and women had just gotten the
vote...

>>It's not a list of worst presidents.

>Okay whatever.

On 2/19/23 6:44 PM, super70s wrote:
> In article <tsthf5$edp0$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> super70s@super70s.invalid wrote:
>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>> Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>>>> history were:
>>
>>>>> 1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>>>> 2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>>>> 3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>>
>>>> John Adams and Woodrow Wilson
>>>> U.S. Grant
>>>> Andrew Johnson
>>>> Rutherford B. Hayes
>>>> George W. Bush
>>
>>> Warren Harding is sorely missing from your list.
>>
>> Hold it. I know you are thinking of Credit Mobilier and Teapot Dome. I
>> don't blame Grant nor Harding for either of those scandals. The two of
>> them did surround themselves with slime that created conditions in which
>> those scandals occurred. I would even argue that many good things were
>> done under both Grant and Harding despite the ignominy of the scandals
>> that forever tarnished their reputations.
>
> Harding is generally considered to be one of the worst presidents ever.

Which would be under discussion if there was anything rational going on
here. Instead we see a small group of nitwits congregating on a dying
bit of social media talking shit 24/7. The few that are fucked in the
head try and say stuff that's relevant but it can only go so far.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:01:12 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>> history were:
>
>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>
>I have no idea what your criteria were, other than random hatred and a
>poor grasp of history. Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
>for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
>two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
>opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
>find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.
>
>Herbert Hoover was similarly saddled with being the cause of the
>collapse that resulted in the Great Depression, but he was not at fault
>for international failure of free world trade during the post WWI era.
>
>Might as well blame the Hoover Dam for today's exhaustion of the
>Colorado River.
>
>Did you even consider two men who were quite brilliant but damn well
>knew better, who failed to stand up for liberty as it interfered with
>short-term expediency? John Adams and Woodrow Wilson. During their
>administrations, Congress passed acts that were the most hostile to
>speech and press ever seen in America entirely at the urging of their
>administrations. At least the Alien and Sedition Acts sunsetted with the
>expiration of Adams' first term (and he didn't get a second term). The
>Espionage Act remains on the books to this day and is largely not held
>to be unconstitutional. It was illegal to criticize Wilson's little war,
>you know, the one he ran on promising not to entangle the United States
>in.

Speaking of Wilson, wasn't he a profound racist who stripped the
Federal bureaucracy of virtually all Blacks?

>

TomBenton@agent.com wrote:
>Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:01:12 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>> history were:

>>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

>>I have no idea what your criteria were, other than random hatred and a
>>poor grasp of history. Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
>>for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
>>two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
>>opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
>>find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.

>>Herbert Hoover was similarly saddled with being the cause of the
>>collapse that resulted in the Great Depression, but he was not at fault
>>for international failure of free world trade during the post WWI era.

>>Might as well blame the Hoover Dam for today's exhaustion of the
>>Colorado River.

>>Did you even consider two men who were quite brilliant but damn well
>>knew better, who failed to stand up for liberty as it interfered with
>>short-term expediency? John Adams and Woodrow Wilson. During their
>>administrations, Congress passed acts that were the most hostile to
>>speech and press ever seen in America entirely at the urging of their
>>administrations. At least the Alien and Sedition Acts sunsetted with the
>>expiration of Adams' first term (and he didn't get a second term). The
>>Espionage Act remains on the books to this day and is largely not held
>>to be unconstitutional. It was illegal to criticize Wilson's little war,
>>you know, the one he ran on promising not to entangle the United States
>>in.

>Speaking of Wilson, wasn't he a profound racist who stripped the
>Federal bureaucracy of virtually all Blacks?

He was a southerner and supported segregation, yes. It's become a thing
to condemn important historical figures for flaws like this. Obviously
his attitude was extremely common and the federal bureaucracy didn't yet
have strong civil service protection. He also saw black appointees as
Republicans and wanted his own patronage.

I'm still more concerned about the way he saw any dissenters opposed to
US involvement in WWI as anarchists who were agents of the foreign
enemy, part of the same conspiracy that created the conditions that led
to the assasination of the Archduke Ferdinand, triggering WWI.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 13:56:34 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>TomBenton@agent.com wrote:
>>Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:01:12 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>>> history were:
>
>>>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
>
>>>I have no idea what your criteria were, other than random hatred and a
>>>poor grasp of history. Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
>>>for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
>>>two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
>>>opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
>>>find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.
>
>>>Herbert Hoover was similarly saddled with being the cause of the
>>>collapse that resulted in the Great Depression, but he was not at fault
>>>for international failure of free world trade during the post WWI era.
>
>>>Might as well blame the Hoover Dam for today's exhaustion of the
>>>Colorado River.
>
>>>Did you even consider two men who were quite brilliant but damn well
>>>knew better, who failed to stand up for liberty as it interfered with
>>>short-term expediency? John Adams and Woodrow Wilson. During their
>>>administrations, Congress passed acts that were the most hostile to
>>>speech and press ever seen in America entirely at the urging of their
>>>administrations. At least the Alien and Sedition Acts sunsetted with the
>>>expiration of Adams' first term (and he didn't get a second term). The
>>>Espionage Act remains on the books to this day and is largely not held
>>>to be unconstitutional. It was illegal to criticize Wilson's little war,
>>>you know, the one he ran on promising not to entangle the United States
>>>in.
>
>>Speaking of Wilson, wasn't he a profound racist who stripped the
>>Federal bureaucracy of virtually all Blacks?
>
>He was a southerner and supported segregation, yes. It's become a thing
>to condemn important historical figures for flaws like this. Obviously
>his attitude was extremely common and the federal bureaucracy didn't yet
>have strong civil service protection. He also saw black appointees as
>Republicans and wanted his own patronage.
>
>I'm still more concerned about the way he saw any dissenters opposed to
>US involvement in WWI as anarchists who were agents of the foreign
>enemy, part of the same conspiracy that created the conditions that led
>to the assasination of the Archduke Ferdinand, triggering WWI.
I'm not sure I follow. What does the conspiracy fears of Wilson have
to do with the assassination of the Archduke? I thought the
assasination was a result of desire for Serb independence. Balkan
politics was a real vipers nest.

TomBenton@agent.com wrote:
>Mon, 20 Feb 2023 13:56:34 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>TomBenton@agent.com wrote:
>>>Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:01:12 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>>Irish Mike <irishranger317@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
>>>>> history were:

>>>>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
>>>>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
>>>>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981

>>>>I have no idea what your criteria were, other than random hatred and a
>>>>poor grasp of history. Yeah, it's a cheap shot to blame Buchanan solely
>>>>for the Civil War, ignoring all the crap that happened in the previous
>>>>two to three decades during which there were no shortage of
>>>>opportunities to address fundamental problems in society head on and
>>>>find a peaceful solution that would have avoided war.

>>>>Herbert Hoover was similarly saddled with being the cause of the
>>>>collapse that resulted in the Great Depression, but he was not at fault
>>>>for international failure of free world trade during the post WWI era.

>>>>Might as well blame the Hoover Dam for today's exhaustion of the
>>>>Colorado River.

>>>>Did you even consider two men who were quite brilliant but damn well
>>>>knew better, who failed to stand up for liberty as it interfered with
>>>>short-term expediency? John Adams and Woodrow Wilson. During their
>>>>administrations, Congress passed acts that were the most hostile to
>>>>speech and press ever seen in America entirely at the urging of their
>>>>administrations. At least the Alien and Sedition Acts sunsetted with the
>>>>expiration of Adams' first term (and he didn't get a second term). The
>>>>Espionage Act remains on the books to this day and is largely not held
>>>>to be unconstitutional. It was illegal to criticize Wilson's little war,
>>>>you know, the one he ran on promising not to entangle the United States
>>>>in.

>>>Speaking of Wilson, wasn't he a profound racist who stripped the
>>>Federal bureaucracy of virtually all Blacks?

>>He was a southerner and supported segregation, yes. It's become a thing
>>to condemn important historical figures for flaws like this. Obviously
>>his attitude was extremely common and the federal bureaucracy didn't yet
>>have strong civil service protection. He also saw black appointees as
>>Republicans and wanted his own patronage.

>>I'm still more concerned about the way he saw any dissenters opposed to
>>US involvement in WWI as anarchists who were agents of the foreign
>>enemy, part of the same conspiracy that created the conditions that led
>>to the assasination of the Archduke Ferdinand, triggering WWI.

>I'm not sure I follow. What does the conspiracy fears of Wilson have
>to do with the assassination of the Archduke? I thought the
>assasination was a result of desire for Serb independence. Balkan
>politics was a real vipers nest.

It wasn't an actual world-wide conspiracy but the years leading up to WWI
were a period of political upheaval in much of the world, not just failed
states like Ottoman Turkey and Austria-Hungary. I don't think there were
any significant numbers of people in the United States who wanted the
government overthrown but federal authorities were not going to tolerate
any dissent, despite the plain language of the Constitution.

> Adam H. Kerman
>
> Again: The origin of the United States misadventure in Afghanistan began
> with US foreign policy changes under Carter and then the abandonment of
> the Mujahideen to Saudi Wahhabi Islamic missionary clerics under Reagan.
> These people radicalized into Wahhabism became the Taliban.
>
> Zbigniew Brzezinski, with Carter's blessing, thought it would make the
> Cold War go in the United States favor if just enough trouble could be
> stirred up against the Soviet-backed government in Afghanistan that the
> Soviets could be tricked into invading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War

Afghanistan was allied with the Soviets for decades prior to their invasion
to prop-up the pro-Soviet government, no "trickery" from the U.S. was needed.

On Sunday, February 19, 2023 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-6, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> supe...@super70s.invalid wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Irish Mike <irishra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Prior to Joe Biden the three (3) worst Presidents in American
> >>> history were:
>
> >>>1. James Buchanan 1857 - 1861
> >>>2. Herbert Hoover 1929 - 1933
> >>>3. Jimmy Carter 1977 - 1981
> >>John Adams and Woodrow Wilson
> >>U.S. Grant
> >>Andrew Johnson
> >>Rutherford B. Hayes
> >>George W. Bush
>
> >Warren Harding is sorely missing from your list.
>
> Hold it. I know you are thinking of Credit Mobilier and Teapot Dome. I
> don't blame Grant nor Harding for either of those scandals. The two of
> them did surround themselves with slime that created conditions in which
> those scandals occurred. I would even argue that many good things were
> done under both Grant and Harding despite the ignominy of the scandals
> that forever tarnished their reputations. Hamilton Fish may have been
> the finest Secretary of State we've ever had.
>
> Even under Hoover, good things happened thanks to his policies, but
> neither Hoover nor Calvin Coolidge understood the precarious nature of
> the US economy.
>
> It's not a list of worst presidents. I'm just pointing out that
> not-Irish made a list by taking cheap shots and that's not legitimate.
> I'm pointing out things that must be taken into account in considering
> things that happened during an administration that ruin reputations.
>
> I don't think it's fair to list Bush because I'm not far enough removed
> from his presidency, but yeah, I don't see some future president getting
> the United States into three wars so he'll probably make the list.
>
> Trump, as despicable a human being as he is, just doesn't come close to
> the disaster that was George W. Bush.
>
> >No learned historian worth their salt would back Allegedly Irish Mike's
> >horseshit up.
>
> There's good and bad under every president. Even Trump noticed that
> Jerusalem is Israel's capital.

Accordion irony

mk5000

In your city scoring, y’all can’t stop the visitors
BabyTron, my name ringing bells like a solicitor
Sitting back, I don’t play games like the commissioner
Me and Stan in our bag, salt and vinegar--BabyTron – 15′-16′ Curry