On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can. market, even closing their Canadian website.
> Why? Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the disposable income of the average American and it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little income.

The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.

On 3/2/23 6:30 PM, Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can. market, even closing their Canadian website.
>> Why? Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the disposable income of the average American and it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little income.
>
> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.

Speaking of Vancouver, if Canada an independent country why is it still
called "British Columbia?"

On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can. market, even closing their Canadian website.
>> Why? Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the disposable income of the average American and it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little income.
>
> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.

But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so well.
--
Bill Idgerant
(Not a real person)

On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant <Noname@fake.net>
wrote:

>On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:
>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can. market, even closing their Canadian website.
>>> Why? Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the disposable income of the average American and it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little income.
>>
>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>
>But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so well.

Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both closed in the
90s - recent economic trends haven't affected either for years since
they were gone long ago. And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons
at least in BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.

(For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general department
stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain but is general retail
now, Future Shop was electronics particularly computer gear. All of
these were Canadian chain stores)

The Horny Goat wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>
>>On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>> wrote:
>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>> income.
>>>
>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>
>>But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>well.
>
> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>
> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
> chain stores)
>
IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
by Sears in Canada.

And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
country.

Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
both)

Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
> The Horny Goat wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>>> income.
>>>>
>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>
>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>> well.
>>
>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>
>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>> chain stores)
>>
> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
> by Sears in Canada.

Ian’s, Wikipedia, articles, confirm. Simpsons started about 30 years before
Sear’s.

>
> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
> in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
> that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
> country.
>
> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
> both)
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 18:52:08 -0500, Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net>
wrote:

>The Horny Goat wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>>> income.
>>>>
>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>
>>>But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>>well.
>>
>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>
>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>> chain stores)
>>
>IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
>by Sears in Canada.
>
>And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
>in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
>that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
>country.
>
>Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>both)

Well specifically Simpsons started in Toronto while Sears-Robuck grew
in the US. In the 50s Simpsons wanted to expand across Canada but
didn't have the $$$ so they made common cause with Sears and formed
Simpson-Sears everywhere in Canada except wherre Simpsons operated.

Then in the 1970s Sears wanted to sell its shares in S-S, Sears agreed
to a 100% buyout, the Canadian government said "No no - too much
corporate concentration" and vetoed the deal BUT did not require Sears
to dispose of the shares Sears had bought in S-S with the unfortunate
result Sears got majority control WITHOUT having the put up the $$$ to
get it - they ran quite nicely with 60-70% ownership..... you can
decide whether you think the Canadian federal government anti-combines
agency should have gotten involved or not, but what actually happened
was pretty much a worst case scenario.

(This was one of our cases we had to study in business school in the
mid 80s)

RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, 3 March 2023 at 19:53:45 UTC-5, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Nyssa <Ny...@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>> <Non...@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>>>>> income.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>>>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>>>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>>>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>>>
>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>>> chain stores)
>>>>
>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
>>> by Sears in Canada.
>> Ian’s, Wikipedia, articles, confirm. Simpsons started about 30 years before
>> Sear’s.
>>>
>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
>>> in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
>>> that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
>>> country.
>>>
>>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>>> both)
>>>
>> --
>> The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.
>
> Hudson's Bay Company (department store now) began in 1677.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson%27s_Bay_Company
>

Impressive!

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 2023-03-03 6:52 PM, Nyssa wrote:
> The Horny Goat wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>>> income.
>>>>
>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>
>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>> well.
>>
>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>
>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>> chain stores)
>>
> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
> by Sears in Canada.
>
> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
> in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
> that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
> country.
>
> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
> both)

I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or any other) but I
suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where you said Oglevys. I never
entered one but I seem to remember seeing that name in ads.

--
Rhino

RichA wrote:

> On Friday, 3 March 2023 at 18:50:44 UTC-5, Nyssa wrote:
>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>> > <Non...@fake.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>> >>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>> >>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>> >>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>> >>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>> >>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>> >>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack
>> >>>> with little income.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>> >>
>> >>But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>> >>so well.
>> >
>> > Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>> > closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>> > affected either for years since they were gone long
>> > ago. And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at
>> > least in BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging
>> > along though Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10
>> > years back.
>> >
>> > (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>> > department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>> > but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>> > particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>> > chain stores)
>> >
>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought
>> out by Sears in Canada.
>>
>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA.
>
> A faint hope. Nostalgia aside, without the buying-power
> of Walmart or equivalent, it's unlikely they'd survive.
>

I hope they make it. I found some good stuff in their
stores over the years. The quality of their goods was
much better than most of the other "discount" department
stores.

Plus I enjoyed their in-store restaurants. Pretty good
food and a reasonable price for a quick meal.

Nyssa, who hopes that someone keeps her updated on the
status (and locations) of any new Zellers stores for
future planning purposes

Rhino wrote:

> On 2023-03-03 6:52 PM, Nyssa wrote:
>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>>>>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>>>>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with
>>>>>> little income.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>
>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>>>> so well.
>>>
>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>>
>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>> chain stores)
>>>
>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought
>> out by Sears in Canada.
>>
>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked
>> shopping in Zellers when north of the border and hope for
>> the best that it's successful and expands into other
>> parts of the country.
>>
>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>> both)
>
> I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or any
> other) but I suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where you
> said Oglevys. I never entered one but I seem to remember
> seeing that name in ads.
>
Freimans is/was owned by The Bay corporation, probably
an acquisition that was allowed to keep its name locally
for awhile.

I've only been in the Ogilvies in Ottawa, and have been
told it's no longer there on Rideau. I've also been
informed that there's an even bigger Ogilvies in Montreal
that is locally famous for their Christmas displays.
Never been in that one.

Isn't it odd that Eatons is long gone, but there are
still Eaton Centre shopping areas scattered around?

Nyssa, who well remembers shopping in the Eatons on
St. Catherines Street in downtown Montreal

On 2023-03-04 10:47 AM, Nyssa wrote:
> Rhino wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-03 6:52 PM, Nyssa wrote:
>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>>>>>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>>>>>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with
>>>>>>> little income.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>>>>> so well.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>>>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>>>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>>>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>>>
>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>>> chain stores)
>>>>
>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought
>>> out by Sears in Canada.
>>>
>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked
>>> shopping in Zellers when north of the border and hope for
>>> the best that it's successful and expands into other
>>> parts of the country.
>>>
>>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>>> both)
>>
>> I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or any
>> other) but I suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where you
>> said Oglevys. I never entered one but I seem to remember
>> seeing that name in ads.
>>
> Freimans is/was owned by The Bay corporation, probably
> an acquisition that was allowed to keep its name locally
> for awhile.
>
> I've only been in the Ogilvies in Ottawa, and have been
> told it's no longer there on Rideau. I've also been
> informed that there's an even bigger Ogilvies in Montreal
> that is locally famous for their Christmas displays.
> Never been in that one.
>
> Isn't it odd that Eatons is long gone, but there are
> still Eaton Centre shopping areas scattered around?
>
> Nyssa, who well remembers shopping in the Eatons on
> St. Catherines Street in downtown Montreal
>

The owners of Eaton's had lost interest in operating department stores
decades back and were far more interested in newer businesses,
particularly broadcasting. I believe that's why they let the department
stores decline.

Most of the Eaton Centres got their names when major Eaton's stores were
built at those corners. I used to work relatively near the Eaton's
Centre in Toronto but that was in the late 80s and early 90s before the
owners closed down the Eaton's stores. I moved away from Toronto in 1996
so I haven't kept up with the developments in Toronto but I just checked
Google Maps and the term Eaton Centre is still in use even though the
Eaton's store, which was the anchor store for the whole mall, is long
gone. I'm surprised no one bothered to rename that block but I suppose
it was sufficiently ingrained in people's memory to make it unpopular to
rename it.

--
Rhino

On 2023-03-04 10:10 AM, Nyssa wrote:
> RichA wrote:
>
>> On Friday, 3 March 2023 at 18:50:44 UTC-5, Nyssa wrote:
>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>> <Non...@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>>>>>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>>>>>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack
>>>>>>> with little income.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>>>>> so well.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>>> affected either for years since they were gone long
>>>> ago. And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at
>>>> least in BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging
>>>> along though Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10
>>>> years back.
>>>>
>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>>> chain stores)
>>>>
>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought
>>> out by Sears in Canada.
>>>
>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA.
>>
>> A faint hope. Nostalgia aside, without the buying-power
>> of Walmart or equivalent, it's unlikely they'd survive.
>>
>
> I hope they make it. I found some good stuff in their
> stores over the years. The quality of their goods was
> much better than most of the other "discount" department
> stores.
>
> Plus I enjoyed their in-store restaurants. Pretty good
> food and a reasonable price for a quick meal.
>
> Nyssa, who hopes that someone keeps her updated on the
> status (and locations) of any new Zellers stores for
> future planning purposes
>
If you haven't seen their website, you may want to have a look.

https://www.zellers.ca/

Apparently, the food service is being revived but this time in the form
of food trucks. Also, all or most of the brick-and-mortar selling (as
opposed to the online side of the business) will be in corners of Bay
stores, rather than in stand-alone Zellers stores. The 25 locations in
the initial launch seem to be all across the country, not just in the GTA.

--
Rhino

On 2023-03-03 7:53 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>>>> income.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>
>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>>> well.
>>>
>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>>
>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>> chain stores)
>>>
>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
>> by Sears in Canada.
>
> Ian’s, Wikipedia, articles, confirm.

Are you writing all those unnecessary commas or is that your
voice-to-text software adding them? Just curious....

> Simpsons started about 30 years before Sear’s.
>
>
>>
>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
>> in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
>> that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
>> country.
>>
>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>> both)
>>
>
>
>

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>On 2023-03-03 7:53 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net> wrote:
>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2 the
>>>>>>> disposable income of the average American and it's hard
>>>>>>> to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with little
>>>>>>> income.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared so
>>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>>>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>>>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>>>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>>>
>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>>> chain stores)
>>>>
>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought out
>>> by Sears in Canada.
>>
>> Ian's, Wikipedia, articles, confirm.

>Are you writing all those unnecessary commas or is that your
>voice-to-text software adding them? Just curious....

Those are key words separated with commas.

>> Simpsons started about 30 years before Sear’s.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked shopping
>>> in Zellers when north of the border and hope for the best
>>> that it's successful and expands into other parts of the
>>> country.
>>>
>>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>>> both)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Rhino
>

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 09:39:10 -0500, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>> both)
>
>I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or any other) but I
>suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where you said Oglevys. I never
>entered one but I seem to remember seeing that name in ads.
\ They must be a regional chain since I have no memory of them at all
besides while at McMaster or subsequently when visiting the inlaws.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:22:08 -0500, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>Apparently, the food service is being revived but this time in the form
>of food trucks. Also, all or most of the brick-and-mortar selling (as
>opposed to the online side of the business) will be in corners of Bay
>stores, rather than in stand-alone Zellers stores. The 25 locations in
>the initial launch seem to be all across the country, not just in the GTA.

Downtown Vancouver would be in deep doo doo if anything ever happened
to the HBC (Bay) stores - the largest subway station in the Vancouver
area is built immediately adjacent to it (through their basement) and
they get a lot of business from subway riders going from basement to
ground floor to catch their buses.

It was also ground zero for the Olympic riots in 2010 and the Stanley
Cup riots (following the Vancouver Canucks loss in game 7 of the
final) in 2011.

(It was somehow typical that while London had riots during the 2012
Olympics the Brits got their trials finished before the trials
relating to Vancouver 2010 were finished which says something not so
good about the Canadian justice system. We're talking minor offenses
like police cruisers being rolled upside down and set on fire - stuff
like that)

Rhino wrote:

> On 2023-03-04 10:47 AM, Nyssa wrote:
>> Rhino wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-03-03 6:52 PM, Nyssa wrote:
>>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>>> <Noname@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6,
>>>>>>> RichA wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>>>>>>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>>>>>>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack
>>>>>>>> with little income.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>>>>>> so well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards
>>>>> both closed in the 90s - recent economic trends
>>>>> haven't affected either for years since they were gone
>>>>> long ago. And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons
>>>>> at least in BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps
>>>>> chugging along though Future Shop sold out to Best Buy
>>>>> about 10 years back.
>>>>>
>>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug
>>>>> chain but is general retail now, Future Shop was
>>>>> electronics particularly computer gear. All of these
>>>>> were Canadian chain stores)
>>>>>
>>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was
>>>> merged/bought out by Sears in Canada.
>>>>
>>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked
>>>> shopping in Zellers when north of the border and hope
>>>> for the best that it's successful and expands into
>>>> other parts of the country.
>>>>
>>>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys
>>>> department stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably
>>>> misspelled both)
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or
>>> any other) but I suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where
>>> you said Oglevys. I never entered one but I seem to
>>> remember seeing that name in ads.
>>>
>> Freimans is/was owned by The Bay corporation, probably
>> an acquisition that was allowed to keep its name locally
>> for awhile.
>>
>> I've only been in the Ogilvies in Ottawa, and have been
>> told it's no longer there on Rideau. I've also been
>> informed that there's an even bigger Ogilvies in Montreal
>> that is locally famous for their Christmas displays.
>> Never been in that one.
>>
>> Isn't it odd that Eatons is long gone, but there are
>> still Eaton Centre shopping areas scattered around?
>>
>> Nyssa, who well remembers shopping in the Eatons on
>> St. Catherines Street in downtown Montreal
>>
>
> The owners of Eaton's had lost interest in operating
> department stores decades back and were far more
> interested in newer businesses, particularly broadcasting.
> I believe that's why they let the department stores
> decline.
>
> Most of the Eaton Centres got their names when major
> Eaton's stores were built at those corners. I used to work
> relatively near the Eaton's Centre in Toronto but that was
> in the late 80s and early 90s before the owners closed
> down the Eaton's stores. I moved away from Toronto in 1996
> so I haven't kept up with the developments in Toronto but
> I just checked Google Maps and the term Eaton Centre is
> still in use even though the Eaton's store, which was the
> anchor store for the whole mall, is long gone. I'm
> surprised no one bothered to rename that block but I
> suppose it was sufficiently ingrained in people's memory
> to make it unpopular to rename it.
>

Same thing in Sarnia. Eaton Centre is still there as far
as I know. Marks and Spenser moved their store into the
Centre from a stand alone department store. Much less
square footage and less merchandise though.

Of course, it's not just in Canada where older department
stores have disappeared. For example, Woodward and Lothrup
had been in the Washington DC area since the Civil War,
but is now history having closed their stores in the late
1990s, I believe.

All the consolidations haven't worked out well for the
customers in either country though. Fewer stores mean
not just less competition, but fewer choices in merchandise.
Everything seems to be generic instead of having niches
in each region.

And to tie it into TV, fewer choices of stores also mean
fewer potential advertisers for local TV (and radio) stations.

Just like Disney and Comcast gobbling up production and
distribution mean fewer sources of creative entertainment
being offered.

Nyssa, who can connect lots of bad stuff due to less competition
and bigger (but not better) corporations owning dang near
everything

Rhino wrote:

> On 2023-03-04 10:10 AM, Nyssa wrote:
>> RichA wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, 3 March 2023 at 18:50:44 UTC-5, Nyssa wrote:
>>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>>> <Non...@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6,
>>>>>>> RichA wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>>>>>>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>>>>>>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack
>>>>>>>> with little income.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>>>>>> so well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards
>>>>> both closed in the 90s - recent economic trends
>>>>> haven't affected either for years since they were gone
>>>>> long ago. And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons
>>>>> at least in BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps
>>>>> chugging along though Future Shop sold out to Best Buy
>>>>> about 10 years back.
>>>>>
>>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug
>>>>> chain but is general retail now, Future Shop was
>>>>> electronics particularly computer gear. All of these
>>>>> were Canadian chain stores)
>>>>>
>>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was
>>>> merged/bought out by Sears in Canada.
>>>>
>>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA.
>>>
>>> A faint hope. Nostalgia aside, without the buying-power
>>> of Walmart or equivalent, it's unlikely they'd survive.
>>>
>>
>> I hope they make it. I found some good stuff in their
>> stores over the years. The quality of their goods was
>> much better than most of the other "discount" department
>> stores.
>>
>> Plus I enjoyed their in-store restaurants. Pretty good
>> food and a reasonable price for a quick meal.
>>
>> Nyssa, who hopes that someone keeps her updated on the
>> status (and locations) of any new Zellers stores for
>> future planning purposes
>>
> If you haven't seen their website, you may want to have a
> look.
>
> https://www.zellers.ca/
>
> Apparently, the food service is being revived but this
> time in the form of food trucks. Also, all or most of the
> brick-and-mortar selling (as opposed to the online side of
> the business) will be in corners of Bay stores, rather
> than in stand-alone Zellers stores. The 25 locations in
> the initial launch seem to be all across the country, not
> just in the GTA.
>
Thanks for the link. I hope they'll be adding some more
information going forward like *where* these mini-stores
will be located.

I noted at the bottom of the page that Zellers is now a
division of The Bay which doesn't give me any warm and
fuzzies in the long run. The Bay has enough problems
already with the profitability of their stores, so taking
on Zellers and making it rely on the brick-and-mortar
of The Bay stores seems odd. (The Bay already closed
their big store in Winnipeg a couple of years ago.)

Food trucks? Hardly the sit-down breakfast bar style
of place you'd go to during a day of running errands. :/

<sarcasm> I'm sure the marketing and executive geniuses
at The Bay know what they're doing. </sarcasm>

Nyssa, who really misses K-Mart, Sears, and several
regional department stores that are all gone now

The Horny Goat wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 09:39:10 -0500, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys
>>> department stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably
>>> misspelled both)
>>
>>I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or any
>>other) but I suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where you
>>said Oglevys. I never entered one but I seem to remember
>>seeing that name in ads.
> \
> They must be a regional chain since I have no memory of
> them at all
> besides while at McMaster or subsequently when visiting
> the inlaws.

I bought a couple of really nice wool sweaters at Freimans
back in the '70s that had labels saying Hudson's Bay
Company. My pop bought an authentic HBC trappers blanket
there too.

My guess is that the store was owned (or affiliated)
with HBC back then. I think it now has The Bay signage
on it. It's was a short walk down Rideau from the Chateau
Laurier.

Nyssa, who still has the blanket, but the sweaters were
given away (and still in perfect shape) years ago

On 3/4/23 2:23 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Saturday, 4 March 2023 at 11:16:46 UTC-5, Rhino wrote:
>> On 2023-03-04 10:47 AM, Nyssa wrote:
>>> Rhino wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2023-03-03 6:52 PM, Nyssa wrote:
>>>>> The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 11:23:19 -0700, Bill Idgerant
>>>>>> <Non...@fake.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2023-03-02 5:30 p.m., Bering Sea Bar & Brig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 6:18:22?PM UTC-6, RichA
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yes, they, like Target are bailing out of the Can.
>>>>>>>>> market, even closing their Canadian website. Why?
>>>>>>>>> Because thanks to lower dollar, horrific taxes and
>>>>>>>>> lower PAY in general, the average Canadian has 1/2
>>>>>>>>> the disposable income of the average American and
>>>>>>>>> it's hard to pay for $600 for a child's backpack with
>>>>>>>>> little income.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Liquidator guy near Vancouver does ok.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Eaton's, Woodwards, Kresge's, et al haven't fared
>>>>>>> so well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't know about Kresge's but Eatons and Woodwards both
>>>>>> closed in the 90s - recent economic trends haven't
>>>>>> affected either for years since they were gone long ago.
>>>>>> And Woodwards was every bit as big as Eatons at least in
>>>>>> BC and Alberta. London Drugs keeps chugging along though
>>>>>> Future Shop sold out to Best Buy about 10 years back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (For Americans here Woodwards and Eatons were general
>>>>>> department stores, London Drugs STARTED as a drug chain
>>>>>> but is general retail now, Future Shop was electronics
>>>>>> particularly computer gear. All of these were Canadian
>>>>>> chain stores)
>>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC Simpsons pre-dated Sears and then was merged/bought
>>>>> out by Sears in Canada.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't forget Zellers, which I understand may be
>>>>> brought back to life, at least in the GTA. I liked
>>>>> shopping in Zellers when north of the border and hope for
>>>>> the best that it's successful and expands into other
>>>>> parts of the country.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nyssa, who also remembers Freimans and Oglevys department
>>>>> stores in Ottawa (and figures she's probably misspelled
>>>>> both)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not familiar with Freimans (with that spelling or any
>>>> other) but I suspect you meant Ogilvie's (sp?) where you
>>>> said Oglevys. I never entered one but I seem to remember
>>>> seeing that name in ads.
>>>>
>>> Freimans is/was owned by The Bay corporation, probably
>>> an acquisition that was allowed to keep its name locally
>>> for awhile.
>>>
>>> I've only been in the Ogilvies in Ottawa, and have been
>>> told it's no longer there on Rideau. I've also been
>>> informed that there's an even bigger Ogilvies in Montreal
>>> that is locally famous for their Christmas displays.
>>> Never been in that one.
>>>
>>> Isn't it odd that Eatons is long gone, but there are
>>> still Eaton Centre shopping areas scattered around?
>>>
>>> Nyssa, who well remembers shopping in the Eatons on
>>> St. Catherines Street in downtown Montreal
>>>
>> The owners of Eaton's had lost interest in operating department stores
>> decades back and were far more interested in newer businesses,
>> particularly broadcasting. I believe that's why they let the department
>> stores decline.
>>
>> Most of the Eaton Centres got their names when major Eaton's stores were
>> built at those corners. I used to work relatively near the Eaton's
>> Centre in Toronto but that was in the late 80s and early 90s before the
>> owners closed down the Eaton's stores. I moved away from Toronto in 1996
>> so I haven't kept up with the developments in Toronto but I just checked
>> Google Maps and the term Eaton Centre is still in use even though the
>> Eaton's store, which was the anchor store for the whole mall, is long
>> gone. I'm surprised no one bothered to rename that block but I suppose
>> it was sufficiently ingrained in people's memory to make it unpopular to
>> rename it.
>>
>> --
>> Rhino
>
> There was enough insipid renaming of the sports stadium in Toronto, we didn't need name flips every five years on the Eaton Centre.
> Enough trouble with the WOKE attack on Ryerson University's name.

That's really fucking stupid. Companies pay for the naming rights.
When they don't pay they get another company that does. I guess when
you're really stupid you belong to a political ilk that sucks the dick
of big business but complains about it anyway.

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 15:35:01 -0500, Nyssa <Nyssa@LogicalInsight.net>
wrote:

>I bought a couple of really nice wool sweaters at Freimans
>back in the '70s that had labels saying Hudson's Bay
>Company. My pop bought an authentic HBC trappers blanket
>there too.
>
>My guess is that the store was owned (or affiliated)
>with HBC back then. I think it now has The Bay signage
>on it. It's was a short walk down Rideau from the Chateau
>Laurier.

As long as they can still sell those white blankets with red green and
blue stripes eh?