ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
foreign military conflict?

NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.

Well played, child. Well played.

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:06:14 PM UTC-5, BTR1701 wrote:
> ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
> foreign military conflict?
>
> NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
>
> Well played, child. Well played.

He's dead Jim!

----------

DOES IT TAKE A WAR?
Seymour Hersh Mar 1, 2023
https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/does-it-take-a-war

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:50:08 PM UTC-5, chromebook test wrote:
> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 3:06:14 PM UTC-5, BTR1701 wrote:
> > ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
> > foreign military conflict?
> >
> > NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
> >
> > Well played, child. Well played.
> He's dead Jim!
>
>
>
> ----------
>
> DOES IT TAKE A WAR?
> Seymour Hersh Mar 1, 2023
> https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/does-it-take-a-war

....

Donald reported in the letter that he talked for forty minutes about the difficulties of Reconstruction after the Civil War, and the trouble he and other historians were having, as he wrote, “in writing a new synthesis of the period.” There was a long period of chatter, with both the president and his wife Jacqueline actively participating. “Mrs. Kennedy,” Donald reported, was “extremely simple and unassuming, very young, very shy, and a little unsure of herself. . . . That radiant beauty which appears in her photographs and in her television appearances is not apparent, but she strikes me as an enthusiastic and highly intelligent young woman.”

The letter went on: “The President himself, too is far less handsome than his pictures. . . . The boyish look which his photographs give him is simply not there. . . . [H]e led off the questioning and continued very active in the discussion throughout; and afterward we had a long, private discussion. It is clear that this is a man determined to go down in our history books as a great President, and he wants to know the secret.

“One thing he said troubled me considerably,” Donald wrote. In discussing the great presidents, Kennedy “asked whether, in sum, did [it] not take a war to put a man in that category? I firmly denied this. He seemed to agree and, since he is bent on being a great President, I hope he really did.”

In a brief telephone conversation I had with Donald in 1996, two decades after the American debacle in Vietnam, the professor expressed far more concern about Kennedy’s view of greatness. He told me that Kennedy was fascinated with Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt because “he thought to be a great President you had to be a wartime President. That was scary to me. I came away feeling that this was a young man who doesn’t understand history.”

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
>foreign military conflict?

>NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.

>Well played, child. Well played.

I'm impressed that kids today were taught about Hayes.

I'll remind you that Trump declared war on Canadia over milk subsidies.

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:23:16 PM UTC-5, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
> >foreign military conflict?
>
> >NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
>
> >Well played, child. Well played.
> I'm impressed that kids today were taught about Hayes.

> I'll remind you that Trump declared war on Canadia over milk subsidies.

October 2019, a date that will go down in infamy...

.... in Wuhan China

On 2023-03-10 3:05 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
> foreign military conflict?
>
> NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
>
> Well played, child. Well played.
>
>
I had no idea you were old enough to have lived through the
administration of Rutherford B. Hayes; no wonder you retired from the
Secret Service! You must be 150+ years old!

--
Rhino

no_offline_contact@example.com wrote:
>On 2023-03-10 3:05 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

>> ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement
>> in foreign military conflict?
>>
>> NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
>>
>> Well played, child. Well played.
>
>I had no idea you were old enough to have lived through the
>administration of Rutherford B. Hayes; no wonder you retired from the
>Secret Service! You must be 150+ years old!

Better than being 100 trillion years old when he retired.

--
Let's go Brandon!

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 20:05:59 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
>foreign military conflict?
>
>NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
>
>Well played, child. Well played.
>
I would have said George Washington since he wasn't President at the
time of the invasion of Canada in 1775.

Abe Lincoln was assassinated before he had the "pleasure" of "going
broad" - though some diehard Southerners might dispute just how
foreign the South was in 1860

Did FDR go to war before Pearl Harbor? Or Truman? (I'd argue Truman
DIDN'T start the Korean war)

Of course the key phrase for me is "in my lifetime" since that only
takes me back to Eisenhower and I was too young to remember anything
at that time.

The earliest memory I have of war is me going to my mother and asking
her "why is grandma crying a lot and saying nineteen thirty nine a
lot" - this was in October 1962 when I had just turned seven. (We
lived next door so saw more of my mother's parents than most kids -
our cat was in heaven as he had the run of both houses and a plush
lawn between them)

On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:38:18 -0500, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>On 2023-03-10 3:05 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
>> foreign military conflict?
>>
>> NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.
>>
>> Well played, child. Well played.
>>
>>
>I had no idea you were old enough to have lived through the
>administration of Rutherford B. Hayes; no wonder you retired from the
>Secret Service! You must be 150+ years old!

Thus the "well played, child"

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 20:05:59 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>>ME: What one president in my lifetime has not initiated U.S. involvement in
>>foreign military conflict?

>>NEPHEW: Rutherford B. Hayes.

>>Well played, child. Well played.

>I would have said George Washington since he wasn't President at the
>time of the invasion of Canada in 1775.

>Abe Lincoln was assassinated before he had the "pleasure" of "going
>broad" - though some diehard Southerners might dispute just how
>foreign the South was in 1860

>Did FDR go to war before Pearl Harbor? Or Truman? (I'd argue Truman
>DIDN'T start the Korean war)

I'll bite.

Truman was president. The partition of Korea was proposed by his
administration and was likely proposed a lot further south than Stalin
would have demanded. There was supposed to be joint administration but
that didn't happen, and then Jimmy Doolittle forced the issue of
elections in the American zone. Then the Soviet Union invaded.

The war literally began with the invasion across the 38th parallel,
absolutely, but Truman fucked up the politics between 1945 and the
invasion. Jimmy Doolittle was an absolute disaster as the head of the
American occupation; Truman ignored his numerous mistakes.

>Of course the key phrase for me is "in my lifetime" since that only
>takes me back to Eisenhower and I was too young to remember anything
>at that time.

Indonesia and the aftermath of Dien Bien Phu and the overthrow of
Mossadegh in Iran all happened because Eisenhower failed to reign in the
Dulles brothers, who were conducting extra-administration foreign
policy.

>. . .

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Of course the key phrase for me is "in my lifetime" since that only
>>takes me back to Eisenhower and I was too young to remember anything
>>at that time.
>
>Indonesia and the aftermath of Dien Bien Phu and the overthrow of
>Mossadegh in Iran all happened because Eisenhower failed to reign in the
>Dulles brothers, who were conducting extra-administration foreign
>policy.
>
Fair enough and I'm somewhat familiar with all 3 though they happened
during my parents' courtship not my early childhood.

Not sure I agree with you on Ike's role in Vietnam - I'd argue the
blame goes mostly to the French. You may or may not have an argument
on the other two.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>Sat, 11 Mar 2023 19:52:24 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>>Of course the key phrase for me is "in my lifetime" since that only
>>>takes me back to Eisenhower and I was too young to remember anything
>>>at that time.

>>Indonesia and the aftermath of Dien Bien Phu and the overthrow of
>>Mossadegh in Iran all happened because Eisenhower failed to reign in the
>>Dulles brothers, who were conducting extra-administration foreign
>>policy.

>Fair enough and I'm somewhat familiar with all 3 though they happened
>during my parents' courtship not my early childhood.

>Not sure I agree with you on Ike's role in Vietnam - I'd argue the
>blame goes mostly to the French. You may or may not have an argument
>on the other two.

The French were soundly defeated at Dien Bien Phu. Nothing that happened
after that defeat can be blamed on the French. For no logical reason,
the Eisenhower administration -- largely the Dulles brothers -- made
defeating Communism in Indochina an American interest. The official era
of war in Viet Nam during the period of American involvement was 1955 to
1975, the fall of Saigon.

Viet Nam was the worst American involvement in unnecessary war we ever
saw, but then two different Bushes gave us the gift of two unnecessary
wars in Iraq.