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arts / rec.arts.tv / Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

SubjectAuthor
* Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4Adam H. Kerman
+* Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4anim8rfsk
|`* Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4Adam H. Kerman
| `- Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4anim8rfsk
+- Under the Banner of Heaven all 7 episodes (was: Under the Banner of Heaven episoAdam H. Kerman
+* Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4Adam H. Kerman
|`- Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4suzeeq
`- Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4Ubiquitous

1
Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

<turoe5$oukq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
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Subject: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 06:26:13 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 06:26 UTC

I'm watching on FX. It was made for FX on Hulu, the streaming service
that is FX's thumb in the nose at its cable subscribers who cannot get
the same shows on streaming. Originally April-June 2022. 7 episodes.

One instance of Adelaide Clemens nudity was censored for satellite.

Fictionalized adaptation of the true crime book (2003) by Jon Krakauer.
I was reading that the book was supposed to have been adapted into a
movie in 2011. An American production, produced on location in Alberta.

Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
violent men.

The title refers to the conflict between God's law and man's law, a
conflict that may become violent.

Starring Andrew Garfield as Jeb Pyre, a detective in a very small town
police force, East Rockwell, with no murder experience. He's Mormon.

I have no idea what his natural speaking voice is. He was born in Los
Angeles but the family moved to England at age 3. His father is American
but his family is from England. His mother is English. Maybe the
American accent is legitimate.

His partner Bill Taba, a Paiute and a detective from the Las Vegas hired
by this small town, played by Gil Birmingham. He's a bit of a '50s
detective cliche in the first episode but the character gets toned way
down as he gets into the mystery.

Jeb's wife Rebecca is Adelaide Clemens. Jeb also has a senile mother who
lives with them and two twin girls of communion age, which is 8 years
old.

In 1984, a Mormon wife Brenda (Daisy Edgar-Jones) and infant daughter
were murdered. She's an outsider, a Mormon from Idaho, but despite being
the daughter of a bishop, Idaho Mormons are a bit more modern than these
rural Mormons in Utah. She's married into the Lafferty family, which is
large and influential.

Husband Allen is taken into custody and not exactly forthcoming about
his family history and everyone's motivations.

The conflicts are between Allen, whose faith has lapsed, and Jeb. Allen
is seemingly more interested in getting Jeb to question his faith than
to help him solve the mystery.

Allen blames unknown Mormons who have turned to the old ways and have
grown beards; beards are anathema among modern Mormons. But Jeb suspects
Brenda's "modern" ways and beliefs created tension in the extended family
that led to her murder.

The patriarch Ammon (an unrecognizeable Christopher Heyerdahl because for
once his is NOT in heavy makeup) and his wife go on a two-year mission
and leave the family business to second son Dan and assisted by son Robin,
snubbing more accomplished son Ron, a housing contractor. Dan immediately
because a tax protestor and refuses to pay property taxes on his father's
property and the license fee on his father's business, putting his father's
assets in jeopardy. This is not the way the father taught him religion.

In a later episode, a disillusioned Dan thinks he has a calling to run
for sheriff and therefore run courts as he sees the Mormon religion, and
when this creates further conflict with his father, he turns to reading
about the early history of the religion. But the BYU university has
purged its collection.

He has to seek out an isolated sect of Mormons in Colorado who may have
copies of the original scriptures. Dealings with these sects are
forbidden in the modern Mormon church.

There's also a brief retelling of Joseph Smith's journey across America
and the challenges to his religious faith, including a murderous
encounter with the governor of Missouri.

I've been enjoying it.

Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

<1060082729.700555671.936866.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>

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 by: anim8rfsk - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:00 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> I'm watching on FX. It was made for FX on Hulu, the streaming service
> that is FX's thumb in the nose at its cable subscribers who cannot get
> the same shows on streaming. Originally April-June 2022. 7 episodes.
>
> One instance of Adelaide Clemens nudity was censored for satellite.
>
> Fictionalized adaptation of the true crime book (2003) by Jon Krakauer.
> I was reading that the book was supposed to have been adapted into a
> movie in 2011. An American production, produced on location in Alberta.
>
> Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
> the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
> inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
> violent men.

You ever read A STUDY IN SCARLET, the first Sherlock Holmes adventure? It
delves heavily into the true history of the Mormon church. That part is
heavily excised nowadays.

>
> The title refers to the conflict between God's law and man's law, a
> conflict that may become violent.
>
> Starring Andrew Garfield as Jeb Pyre, a detective in a very small town
> police force, East Rockwell, with no murder experience. He's Mormon.
>
> I have no idea what his natural speaking voice is. He was born in Los
> Angeles but the family moved to England at age 3. His father is American
> but his family is from England. His mother is English. Maybe the
> American accent is legitimate.

Not really. In interviews he sounds like an ex- patriot Brett still trying
to lose the accident.

https://youtu.be/oj23HcgP694

https://youtu.be/vaNa34yEEWs

He may just be able to speak anyway he wants like Lauren Cohen, but his
natural voice seems to be half-and-half.

>
> His partner Bill Taba, a Paiute and a detective from the Las Vegas hired
> by this small town, played by Gil Birmingham. He's a bit of a '50s
> detective cliche in the first episode but the character gets toned way
> down as he gets into the mystery.
>
> Jeb's wife Rebecca is Adelaide Clemens. Jeb also has a senile mother who
> lives with them and two twin girls of communion age, which is 8 years
> old.
>
> In 1984, a Mormon wife Brenda (Daisy Edgar-Jones) and infant daughter
> were murdered. She's an outsider, a Mormon from Idaho, but despite being
> the daughter of a bishop, Idaho Mormons are a bit more modern than these
> rural Mormons in Utah. She's married into the Lafferty family, which is
> large and influential.
>
> Husband Allen is taken into custody and not exactly forthcoming about
> his family history and everyone's motivations.
>
> The conflicts are between Allen, whose faith has lapsed, and Jeb. Allen
> is seemingly more interested in getting Jeb to question his faith than
> to help him solve the mystery.
>
> Allen blames unknown Mormons who have turned to the old ways and have
> grown beards; beards are anathema among modern Mormons. But Jeb suspects
> Brenda's "modern" ways and beliefs created tension in the extended family
> that led to her murder.
>
> The patriarch Ammon (an unrecognizeable Christopher Heyerdahl because for
> once his is NOT in heavy makeup) and his wife go on a two-year mission
> and leave the family business to second son Dan and assisted by son Robin,
> snubbing more accomplished son Ron, a housing contractor. Dan immediately
> because a tax protestor and refuses to pay property taxes on his father's
> property and the license fee on his father's business, putting his father's
> assets in jeopardy. This is not the way the father taught him religion.
>
> In a later episode, a disillusioned Dan thinks he has a calling to run
> for sheriff and therefore run courts as he sees the Mormon religion, and
> when this creates further conflict with his father, he turns to reading
> about the early history of the religion. But the BYU university has
> purged its collection.
>
> He has to seek out an isolated sect of Mormons in Colorado who may have
> copies of the original scriptures. Dealings with these sects are
> forbidden in the modern Mormon church.
>
> There's also a brief retelling of Joseph Smith's journey across America
> and the challenges to his religious faith, including a murderous
> encounter with the governor of Missouri.
>
> I've been enjoying it.
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

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From: ahk...@chinet.com (Adam H. Kerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 13:32:16 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 13:32 UTC

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>>Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
>>the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
>>inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
>>violent men.

>You ever read A STUDY IN SCARLET, the first Sherlock Holmes adventure? It
>delves heavily into the true history of the Mormon church. That part is
>heavily excised nowadays.

Right. I read all of Sherlock Holmes when I was a kid. I don't have a
clear recollection of these details.
>>. . .

>>Starring Andrew Garfield as Jeb Pyre, a detective in a very small town
>>police force, East Rockwell, with no murder experience. He's Mormon.

>>I have no idea what his natural speaking voice is. He was born in Los
>>Angeles but the family moved to England at age 3. His father is American
>>but his family is from England. His mother is English. Maybe the
>>American accent is legitimate.

>Not really. In interviews he sounds like an ex- patriot Brett still trying
>to lose the accident.

>https://youtu.be/oj23HcgP694

>https://youtu.be/vaNa34yEEWs

>He may just be able to speak anyway he wants like Lauren Cohen, but his
>natural voice seems to be half-and-half.

I thought perhaps he was speaking in an accent he learned from his
father.
>>. . .

Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

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 by: anim8rfsk - Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:22 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>>> Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
>>> the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
>>> inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
>>> violent men.
>
>> You ever read A STUDY IN SCARLET, the first Sherlock Holmes adventure? It
>> delves heavily into the true history of the Mormon church. That part is
>> heavily excised nowadays.
>
> Right. I read all of Sherlock Holmes when I was a kid. I don't have a
> clear recollection of these details.

Mostly from memory, somewhat corrupted by the sanitized versions (like the
pilot episode of SHERLOCK, where the background of the church is removed
completely and the killer is just killing random people for the sake of
killing random people):

Holmes and Watson meet and take a lovely cottage by the sea or an apartment
at 221B.

They are called to investigate a series of murders that have RACHE written
nearby which they assume is German for revenge.

We get a flashback to the great alkali plains in the land of the Saints in
the mid-1800s. The sole survivors of a wagon train, a man and a little girl
(unrelated) are rescued by Brigham Young (personally) and a band of his
Raiders (the guys known for burning out settlers and killing the menfolk
and taking the women), but the price of their lives is eternal allegiance
to the Mormon church.

Years later, the little girl has blossomed into womanhood (I always wanted
to say that) and wants to marry a heathen, but Brigham Young (again
personally) claims her body and soul and loins for the church and decrees.
She must marry one of two of his Raiders.

The three of them (Man, grown-up, girl, erstwhile fiancé) make a run for
it, but the Raiders catch them and kill the man and force the girl to
“marry“ one of them (it probably doesn’t hurt that somehow she has a large
estate). The fiancé chases the two across America and much of Europe, and
finally corners them in London. At this point the story once again becomes
the one you see in the movies, or in Sherlock, where he forces them to
choose one of two pills, one of which is poison; him writing RACHE in his
own blood is just a red herring.

Lestrade gets the credit for solving the murders and an infuriated Watson
begins writing his own account of the adventures of Sherlock Holmes, so the
world will know the truth!

>
>>> . . .
>
>>> Starring Andrew Garfield as Jeb Pyre, a detective in a very small town
>>> police force, East Rockwell, with no murder experience. He's Mormon.
>
>>> I have no idea what his natural speaking voice is. He was born in Los
>>> Angeles but the family moved to England at age 3. His father is American
>>> but his family is from England. His mother is English. Maybe the
>>> American accent is legitimate.
>
>> Not really. In interviews he sounds like an ex- patriot Brett still trying
>> to lose the accident.
>
>> https://youtu.be/oj23HcgP694
>
>> https://youtu.be/vaNa34yEEWs
>
>> He may just be able to speak anyway he wants like Lauren Cohen, but his
>> natural voice seems to be half-and-half.
>
> I thought perhaps he was speaking in an accent he learned from his
> father.

None of these theories are mutually exclusive.

>
>>> . . .
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Under the Banner of Heaven all 7 episodes (was: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4)

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Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Under the Banner of Heaven all 7 episodes (was: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4)
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Wed, 29 Mar 2023 09:24 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>I'm watching on FX. It was made for FX on Hulu, the streaming service
>that is FX's thumb in the nose at its cable subscribers who cannot get
>the same shows on streaming. Originally April-June 2022. 7 episodes.

I fininshed the series. I thought it was well worthwhile. Quite a bit of
the story exploring the motives for the killings is essentially horror.

>. . .

>Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
>the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
>inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
>violent men.

In the final episode, they get into the story of Brigham Young ordering the
killing of the wagon train of white settlers, calling them "gentiles",
and setting up the local Paiute Indian tribe for the massacre. They
thought they could keep nonbelievers from settling Utah.

>. . .

>His partner Bill Taba, a Paiute and a detective from the Las Vegas hired
>by this small town, played by Gil Birmingham. He's a bit of a '50s
>detective cliche in the first episode but the character gets toned way
>down as he gets into the mystery.

By the final episode, he starts dominating certain scenes.

>Jeb's wife Rebecca is Adelaide Clemens. Jeb also has a senile mother who
>lives with them and two twin girls of communion age, which is 8 years
>old.

This I thought was a cheat. Rebecca was unhappy with the amount of time
Jeb was spending on the case and, in particular, losing his Mormon
faith. She complained to the Bishop who took it as an opportunity to
once again pressure Jeb into protecting the Church at the expense of
bringing criminals to justice. She was actually going to leave him but
they got a happy ending without resolving the conflict.

Also Jeb did learn that some portions of the crimes were known to Church
elders who did not disclose what they knew to police.

>. . .

Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

<u15akg$2t5np$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4
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 by: Adam H. Kerman - Wed, 12 Apr 2023 04:04 UTC

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>I'm watching on FX. It was made for FX on Hulu, the streaming service
>that is FX's thumb in the nose at its cable subscribers who cannot get
>the same shows on streaming. Originally April-June 2022. 7 episodes.

>One instance of Adelaide Clemens nudity was censored for satellite.

>Fictionalized adaptation of the true crime book (2003) by Jon Krakauer.
>I was reading that the book was supposed to have been adapted into a
>movie in 2011. An American production, produced on location in Alberta.

>Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
>the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
>inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
>violent men. . . .

Who knew? The Mormon church hierarchy is STILL covering up, just like
the events we saw in this tv series.

The crime was learned about in their version of confession, but then the
hierarchy learned of it and failed to report it. Courts are still
protecting the church hierarchy by evoking privilege.

I always understood that there is no privilege of confidentiality
extending to a third party that learns the information. Seems to me that
church hierarchy that did not take the confession aren't covered by
privilege.

In movies, the priest taking the confession never breaks confidence by
talking to his bishop.

Arizona court upholds clergy privilege in child abuse case
By MICHAEL REZENDES and JASON DEAREN
AP
April 11, 2023
https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-child-sex-abuse-e02ae4470a5a53cbeb9aa146ff2762ac

Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

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 by: suzeeq - Wed, 12 Apr 2023 04:14 UTC

On 4/11/2023 9:04 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm watching on FX. It was made for FX on Hulu, the streaming service
>> that is FX's thumb in the nose at its cable subscribers who cannot get
>> the same shows on streaming. Originally April-June 2022. 7 episodes.
>
>> One instance of Adelaide Clemens nudity was censored for satellite.
>
>> Fictionalized adaptation of the true crime book (2003) by Jon Krakauer.
>> I was reading that the book was supposed to have been adapted into a
>> movie in 2011. An American production, produced on location in Alberta.
>
>> Takes the position that the history of violence in the early days of
>> the Mormon church is hidden from the faithful and that there's something
>> inherent in the nature of the beliefs of the early church that creates
>> violent men. . . .
>
> Who knew? The Mormon church hierarchy is STILL covering up, just like
> the events we saw in this tv series.
>
> The crime was learned about in their version of confession, but then the
> hierarchy learned of it and failed to report it. Courts are still
> protecting the church hierarchy by evoking privilege.
>
> I always understood that there is no privilege of confidentiality
> extending to a third party that learns the information. Seems to me that
> church hierarchy that did not take the confession aren't covered by
> privilege.
>
> In movies, the priest taking the confession never breaks confidence by
> talking to his bishop.
>
> Arizona court upholds clergy privilege in child abuse case
> By MICHAEL REZENDES and JASON DEAREN
> AP
> April 11, 2023
> https://apnews.com/article/mormon-church-child-sex-abuse-e02ae4470a5a53cbeb9aa146ff2762ac
>
I started watching after your first post on it. A pretty good show and
story.

Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4

<u169tq$30qei$16@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: Under the Banner of Heaven episodes 1-4
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2023 08:58:34 -0400
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 by: Ubiquitous - Wed, 12 Apr 2023 12:58 UTC

In article <turoe5$oukq$1@dont-email.me>, ahk@chinet.com wrote:

>I'm watching on FX. It was made for FX on Hulu, the streaming service
>that is FX's thumb in the nose

Whut?

--
Let's go Brandon!

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