Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.

The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
the "Talon", got to him. Somehow, they get the idea from "Robin"/Carrie
that they need to get Bruce Wayne's "diaries" for evidence of the Owls,
which are hidden in Wayne Tower. So the YOUTS head to Wayne Tower to
retrieve the diaries (Robin knows a super-secret entrance in). In some
good bits, they decide to give the Rows some personality - Duela wants
to split town while Turner and Robin/Carrie go into the Tower, but
Cullen Row refuses to be a traitorous bitch (Harper backs him up). So
Duela leaves the Rows there! and splits all on her own!!
The YOUTS, minus Duela. end up having to battle the Talon in Bruce's
old penthouse office, but in the dumbest bit of the episode, they
escape via Robin's zip-line (how long was that zip-line, and what the
Hell was it attached to?!!).
Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
against the Talon and actually hold their own!
Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
them from Turner.
Improvements from the pilot:
- Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
- Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
actually wasn't useless in this one.
- They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
Stuff made worse from the pilot:
- In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
total waste of a cool set.
- I'm also getting sick of Turner's EVOL!!1! nanny(?!) who works for
the Owls.

--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>
> The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
> Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
> the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
> the "Talon", got to him.

So explain this to me. There is absolutely no evidence that the court of
owls exists. No one has ever heard of them. And yet everyone knows about
their chief assassin right down to his name.

Somehow, they get the idea from "Robin"/Carrie
> that they need to get Bruce Wayne's "diaries" for evidence of the Owls,
> which are hidden in Wayne Tower. So the YOUTS head to Wayne Tower to
> retrieve the diaries (Robin knows a super-secret entrance in).

In the comics, the super secret elevator doesn’t dump into the public car
park, it goes to the super super secret private garage below. How else the
hell would you hide the Batmobile?

In some
> good bits, they decide to give the Rows some personality - Duela wants
> to split town while Turner and Robin/Carrie go into the Tower, but
> Cullen Row refuses to be a traitorous bitch (Harper backs him up). So
> Duela leaves the Rows there! and splits all on her own!!
> The YOUTS, minus Duela. end up having to battle the Talon in Bruce's
> old penthouse office, but in the dumbest bit of the episode, they
> escape via Robin's zip-line (how long was that zip-line, and what the
> Hell was it attached to?!!).

Miles. Miles and miles long. (assuming it goes to the ground). It’s only at
about a 5 to 10° angle and it’s absolutely rigid, not bowing under the
YOUTS weight. That was every bit as stupid as the stars whooshing past Ark
one’s windows. And why did Robin have four sets of pulleys handy? And make
no mistake they did not have harnesses they were just holding on with their
hands.

I came within the proverbial hairs breath of pushing the “never again”
button right there and then.

> Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
> cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
> and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
> for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
> against the Talon and actually hold their own!
> Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
> Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
> Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
> them from Turner.
> Improvements from the pilot:
> - Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
> the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
> to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
> still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
> secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
> stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
> the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
> cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
> - Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
> instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
> more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
> approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
> if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
> actually wasn't useless in this one.
> - They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
> Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
> most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
> Stuff made worse from the pilot:
> - In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
> seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
> total waste of a cool set.

And without a warrant, on the fly, the district attorney tells them to
confiscate everything the victim owned. Good thing every law-enforcement
person in Gotham is a crook.

> - I'm also getting sick of Turner's EVOL!!1! nanny(?!)

She’s the butler. Butlers are usually, but not always, male. She said she
was the equivalent of Alfred.

In the event of Bruce’s death, I would assume she would also be Turner’s
guardian.

who works for
> the Owls.
>
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:12:46 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
>> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>>
>> The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
>> Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
>> the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
>> the "Talon", got to him.
>
>So explain this to me. There is absolutely no evidence that the court of
>owls exists. No one has ever heard of them. And yet everyone knows about
>their chief assassin right down to his name.

Yeah, there's even a whispered warning of him that kids learn from ??
Can't be their parents if no one knows of them so who is whispering
warnings about the Owls in their ears at night?

>
>Somehow, they get the idea from "Robin"/Carrie
>> that they need to get Bruce Wayne's "diaries" for evidence of the Owls,
>> which are hidden in Wayne Tower. So the YOUTS head to Wayne Tower to
>> retrieve the diaries (Robin knows a super-secret entrance in).
>
>In the comics, the super secret elevator doesn’t dump into the public car
>park, it goes to the super super secret private garage below. How else the
>hell would you hide the Batmobile?

Yeah, but that costs money to film. Though you would expect there to
be cameras down that might catch Bruce going into this super secret
elevator. Also why does anyone assume or think that Bruce is going to
go to Wayne Tower and into his office as Batman? What would be the
point of that?

>
>In some
>> good bits, they decide to give the Rows some personality - Duela wants
>> to split town while Turner and Robin/Carrie go into the Tower, but
>> Cullen Row refuses to be a traitorous bitch (Harper backs him up). So
>> Duela leaves the Rows there! and splits all on her own!!
>> The YOUTS, minus Duela. end up having to battle the Talon in Bruce's
>> old penthouse office, but in the dumbest bit of the episode, they
>> escape via Robin's zip-line (how long was that zip-line, and what the
>> Hell was it attached to?!!).
>
>Miles. Miles and miles long. (assuming it goes to the ground). It’s only at
>about a 5 to 10° angle and it’s absolutely rigid, not bowing under the
>YOUTS weight. That was every bit as stupid as the stars whooshing past Ark
>one’s windows. And why did Robin have four sets of pulleys handy? And make
>no mistake they did not have harnesses they were just holding on with their
>hands.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. Especially since there appeared to have
been buildings that were much closer. Still to far for any such rig to
actually work but at least it wouldn't have been quite so stupid. I
had the same question about the pulleys. I thought maybe they had some
sort of auto-return function but that clearly wasn't the case.

>I came within the proverbial hairs breath of pushing the “never again”
>button right there and then.
>
>
>> Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
>> cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
>> and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
>> for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
>> against the Talon and actually hold their own!

So the Talon is at Wayne Enterprises and then is at this pawn shop
guy's place in time to stop the deal with Duela even though Duela left
WE long before the Talon did. So does the Talon have a transporter or
some other magical means of getting across the city. Also how did he
know that she was there because the pawn shop guy hadn't called so she
might have showed up a few hours later.

>> Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
>> Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
>> Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
>> them from Turner.
>> Improvements from the pilot:
>> - Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
>> the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
>> to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
>> still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
>> secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
>> stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
>> the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
>> cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
>> - Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
>> instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
>> more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
>> approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
>> if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
>> actually wasn't useless in this one.
>> - They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
>> Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
>> most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
>> Stuff made worse from the pilot:
>> - In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
>> seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
>> total waste of a cool set.
>
>And without a warrant, on the fly, the district attorney tells them to
>confiscate everything the victim owned. Good thing every law-enforcement
>person in Gotham is a crook.

Also how did they even know the bat cave was there? It's not like
Batman left directions to his secret lair lying around.

>
>> - I'm also getting sick of Turner's EVOL!!1! nanny(?!)
>
>She’s the butler. Butlers are usually, but not always, male. She said she
>was the equivalent of Alfred.
>
>In the event of Bruce’s death, I would assume she would also be Turner’s
>guardian.

You would think the world's greatest detective might have caught on to
the fact that the woman living under his roof was one of the bad guys.

>
>who works for
>> the Owls.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:12:46 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
>>> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>>>
>>> The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
>>> Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
>>> the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
>>> the "Talon", got to him.
>>
>> So explain this to me. There is absolutely no evidence that the court of
>> owls exists. No one has ever heard of them. And yet everyone knows about
>> their chief assassin right down to his name.
>
> Yeah, there's even a whispered warning of him that kids learn from ??
> Can't be their parents if no one knows of them so who is whispering
> warnings about the Owls in their ears at night?

It’s got to be writer one versus writer two again. The one writer thinks
nobody has ever heard of the court and the other things everybody has heard
the whispers for the thousand years Gotham city has been in existence.

>
>>
>> Somehow, they get the idea from "Robin"/Carrie
>>> that they need to get Bruce Wayne's "diaries" for evidence of the Owls,
>>> which are hidden in Wayne Tower. So the YOUTS head to Wayne Tower to
>>> retrieve the diaries (Robin knows a super-secret entrance in).
>>
>> In the comics, the super secret elevator doesn’t dump into the public car
>> park, it goes to the super super secret private garage below. How else the
>> hell would you hide the Batmobile?
>
> Yeah, but that costs money to film. Though you would expect there to
> be cameras down that might catch Bruce going into this super secret
> elevator. Also why does anyone assume or think that Bruce is going to
> go to Wayne Tower and into his office as Batman? What would be the
> point of that?

Other direction. Bruce Wayne in his office, sees the bat signal and hast to
get to the Batmobile. He needs to change the Batman before he does because
anybody seen Bruce Wayne getting into the Batmobile is going to figure
stuff out pretty quick.

But, yeah, you’re right, when he comes back, he’s got to change between the
secret garage, and the secret entrance to his not secret office. The only
place I can see him doing that is the secret elevator.

>
>
>>
>> In some
>>> good bits, they decide to give the Rows some personality - Duela wants
>>> to split town while Turner and Robin/Carrie go into the Tower, but
>>> Cullen Row refuses to be a traitorous bitch (Harper backs him up). So
>>> Duela leaves the Rows there! and splits all on her own!!
>>> The YOUTS, minus Duela. end up having to battle the Talon in Bruce's
>>> old penthouse office, but in the dumbest bit of the episode, they
>>> escape via Robin's zip-line (how long was that zip-line, and what the
>>> Hell was it attached to?!!).
>>
>> Miles. Miles and miles long. (assuming it goes to the ground). It’s only at
>> about a 5 to 10° angle and it’s absolutely rigid, not bowing under the
>> YOUTS weight. That was every bit as stupid as the stars whooshing past Ark
>> one’s windows. And why did Robin have four sets of pulleys handy? And make
>> no mistake they did not have harnesses they were just holding on with their
>> hands.
>
> Yeah, that was ridiculous. Especially since there appeared to have
> been buildings that were much closer. Still to far for any such rig to
> actually work but at least it wouldn't have been quite so stupid. I
> had the same question about the pulleys. I thought maybe they had some
> sort of auto-return function but that clearly wasn't the case.
>

Nope. Plus if the danger is eminent enough that they had to do that why
isn’t it imminent enough to cut the zip line?

>> I came within the proverbial hairs breath of pushing the “never again”
>> button right there and then.
>>
>>
>>> Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
>>> cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
>>> and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
>>> for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
>>> against the Talon and actually hold their own!
>
> So the Talon is at Wayne Enterprises and then is at this pawn shop
> guy's place in time to stop the deal with Duela even though Duela left
> WE long before the Talon did. So does the Talon have a transporter or
> some other magical means of getting across the city. Also how did he
> know that she was there because the pawn shop guy hadn't called so she
> might have showed up a few hours later.

The Talon is apparently immortal and magic.

>
>>> Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
>>> Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
>>> Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
>>> them from Turner.
>>> Improvements from the pilot:
>>> - Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
>>> the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
>>> to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
>>> still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
>>> secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
>>> stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
>>> the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
>>> cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
>>> - Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
>>> instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
>>> more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
>>> approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
>>> if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
>>> actually wasn't useless in this one.
>>> - They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
>>> Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
>>> most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
>>> Stuff made worse from the pilot:
>>> - In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
>>> seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
>>> total waste of a cool set.
>>
>> And without a warrant, on the fly, the district attorney tells them to
>> confiscate everything the victim owned. Good thing every law-enforcement
>> person in Gotham is a crook.
>
> Also how did they even know the bat cave was there? It's not like
> Batman left directions to his secret lair lying around.

Also, didn’t they come in from the other end? So they didn’t find it by
searching the house they just looked around the grounds for a sign that
said Gotham city 12 miles.

>
>>
>>> - I'm also getting sick of Turner's EVOL!!1! nanny(?!)
>>
>> She’s the butler. Butlers are usually, but not always, male. She said she
>> was the equivalent of Alfred.
>>
>> In the event of Bruce’s death, I would assume she would also be Turner’s
>> guardian.
>
> You would think the world's greatest detective might have caught on to
> the fact that the woman living under his roof was one of the bad guys.
>

And that right there is the problem. When they say something stupid on the
ark, it actually energizes me to bitch about it. When they say something
stupid on Gotham nights, it just makes me sigh heavily, and want to fall
back asleep.

>>
>> who works for
>>> the Owls.
>
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 23:35:30 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:12:46 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
>>>> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>>>>
>>>> The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
>>>> Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
>>>> the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
>>>> the "Talon", got to him.
>>>
>>> So explain this to me. There is absolutely no evidence that the court of
>>> owls exists. No one has ever heard of them. And yet everyone knows about
>>> their chief assassin right down to his name.
>>
>> Yeah, there's even a whispered warning of him that kids learn from ??
>> Can't be their parents if no one knows of them so who is whispering
>> warnings about the Owls in their ears at night?
>
>It’s got to be writer one versus writer two again. The one writer thinks
>nobody has ever heard of the court and the other things everybody has heard
>the whispers for the thousand years Gotham city has been in existence.

Do they put out listings for "Writer wanted. Required that you like to
work alone and NOT communicate with other writers"?
Sometimes add in a "Required: No knowledge or desire to know the
source material."

>>
>>>
>>> Somehow, they get the idea from "Robin"/Carrie
>>>> that they need to get Bruce Wayne's "diaries" for evidence of the Owls,
>>>> which are hidden in Wayne Tower. So the YOUTS head to Wayne Tower to
>>>> retrieve the diaries (Robin knows a super-secret entrance in).
>>>
>>> In the comics, the super secret elevator doesn’t dump into the public car
>>> park, it goes to the super super secret private garage below. How else the
>>> hell would you hide the Batmobile?
>>
>> Yeah, but that costs money to film. Though you would expect there to
>> be cameras down that might catch Bruce going into this super secret
>> elevator. Also why does anyone assume or think that Bruce is going to
>> go to Wayne Tower and into his office as Batman? What would be the
>> point of that?
>
>Other direction. Bruce Wayne in his office, sees the bat signal and hast to
>get to the Batmobile. He needs to change the Batman before he does because
>anybody seen Bruce Wayne getting into the Batmobile is going to figure
>stuff out pretty quick.

At least with THE BATMAN movie they showed Gordon waiting around for a
long time (possibly hours) for the Batman to show up when he set off
the bat signal. Which makes sense since you can't exactly expect
Batman to show up on call when the bat signal is useless for half the
day while the Sun is up.

>But, yeah, you’re right, when he comes back, he’s got to change between the
>secret garage, and the secret entrance to his not secret office. The only
>place I can see him doing that is the secret elevator.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In some
>>>> good bits, they decide to give the Rows some personality - Duela wants
>>>> to split town while Turner and Robin/Carrie go into the Tower, but
>>>> Cullen Row refuses to be a traitorous bitch (Harper backs him up). So
>>>> Duela leaves the Rows there! and splits all on her own!!
>>>> The YOUTS, minus Duela. end up having to battle the Talon in Bruce's
>>>> old penthouse office, but in the dumbest bit of the episode, they
>>>> escape via Robin's zip-line (how long was that zip-line, and what the
>>>> Hell was it attached to?!!).
>>>
>>> Miles. Miles and miles long. (assuming it goes to the ground). It’s only at
>>> about a 5 to 10° angle and it’s absolutely rigid, not bowing under the
>>> YOUTS weight. That was every bit as stupid as the stars whooshing past Ark
>>> one’s windows. And why did Robin have four sets of pulleys handy? And make
>>> no mistake they did not have harnesses they were just holding on with their
>>> hands.
>>
>> Yeah, that was ridiculous. Especially since there appeared to have
>> been buildings that were much closer. Still to far for any such rig to
>> actually work but at least it wouldn't have been quite so stupid. I
>> had the same question about the pulleys. I thought maybe they had some
>> sort of auto-return function but that clearly wasn't the case.
>>
>
>Nope. Plus if the danger is eminent enough that they had to do that why
>isn’t it imminent enough to cut the zip line?

I'm amazed the Talon didn't break through the door and cut the zip
line but that would have mercifully put us all out of our misery.

>>> I came within the proverbial hairs breath of pushing the “never again”
>>> button right there and then.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
>>>> cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
>>>> and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
>>>> for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
>>>> against the Talon and actually hold their own!
>>
>> So the Talon is at Wayne Enterprises and then is at this pawn shop
>> guy's place in time to stop the deal with Duela even though Duela left
>> WE long before the Talon did. So does the Talon have a transporter or
>> some other magical means of getting across the city. Also how did he
>> know that she was there because the pawn shop guy hadn't called so she
>> might have showed up a few hours later.
>
>The Talon is apparently immortal and magic.

He must be to do all that we see. I was kind of hoping that we would
get some clue that there's more than one Talon as that would explain a
lot but apparently we only have one guy who has Jack Bauer level
travel skills and apparently a very good tailor who makes explosive
proof suits.

>>
>>>> Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
>>>> Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
>>>> Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
>>>> them from Turner.
>>>> Improvements from the pilot:
>>>> - Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
>>>> the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
>>>> to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
>>>> still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
>>>> secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
>>>> stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
>>>> the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
>>>> cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
>>>> - Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
>>>> instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
>>>> more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
>>>> approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
>>>> if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
>>>> actually wasn't useless in this one.
>>>> - They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
>>>> Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
>>>> most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
>>>> Stuff made worse from the pilot:
>>>> - In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
>>>> seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
>>>> total waste of a cool set.
>>>
>>> And without a warrant, on the fly, the district attorney tells them to
>>> confiscate everything the victim owned. Good thing every law-enforcement
>>> person in Gotham is a crook.
>>
>> Also how did they even know the bat cave was there? It's not like
>> Batman left directions to his secret lair lying around.
>
>Also, didn’t they come in from the other end? So they didn’t find it by
>searching the house they just looked around the grounds for a sign that
>said Gotham city 12 miles.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 23:35:30 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:12:46 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
>>>>> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>>>>>
>>>>> The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
>>>>> Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
>>>>> the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
>>>>> the "Talon", got to him.
>>>>
>>>> So explain this to me. There is absolutely no evidence that the court of
>>>> owls exists. No one has ever heard of them. And yet everyone knows about
>>>> their chief assassin right down to his name.
>>>
>>> Yeah, there's even a whispered warning of him that kids learn from ??
>>> Can't be their parents if no one knows of them so who is whispering
>>> warnings about the Owls in their ears at night?
>>
>> It’s got to be writer one versus writer two again. The one writer thinks
>> nobody has ever heard of the court and the other things everybody has heard
>> the whispers for the thousand years Gotham city has been in existence.
>
> Do they put out listings for "Writer wanted. Required that you like to
> work alone and NOT communicate with other writers"?
> Sometimes add in a "Required: No knowledge or desire to know the
> source material."

This business of having a whole bunch of writers, none of which know what
the other ones are doing, seems to be a result of them having writers
rooms, where they’re all working together. You would think the opposite
would be the result.

Maybe they’re like the current generation of producers and can’t read? So
they only know what happened on the show once they see a finished program.

>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Somehow, they get the idea from "Robin"/Carrie
>>>>> that they need to get Bruce Wayne's "diaries" for evidence of the Owls,
>>>>> which are hidden in Wayne Tower. So the YOUTS head to Wayne Tower to
>>>>> retrieve the diaries (Robin knows a super-secret entrance in).
>>>>
>>>> In the comics, the super secret elevator doesn’t dump into the public car
>>>> park, it goes to the super super secret private garage below. How else the
>>>> hell would you hide the Batmobile?
>>>
>>> Yeah, but that costs money to film. Though you would expect there to
>>> be cameras down that might catch Bruce going into this super secret
>>> elevator. Also why does anyone assume or think that Bruce is going to
>>> go to Wayne Tower and into his office as Batman? What would be the
>>> point of that?
>>
>> Other direction. Bruce Wayne in his office, sees the bat signal and hast to
>> get to the Batmobile. He needs to change the Batman before he does because
>> anybody seen Bruce Wayne getting into the Batmobile is going to figure
>> stuff out pretty quick.
>
> At least with THE BATMAN movie they showed Gordon waiting around for a
> long time (possibly hours) for the Batman to show up when he set off
> the bat signal. Which makes sense since you can't exactly expect
> Batman to show up on call when the bat signal is useless for half the
> day while the Sun is up.
>
>> But, yeah, you’re right, when he comes back, he’s got to change between the
>> secret garage, and the secret entrance to his not secret office. The only
>> place I can see him doing that is the secret elevator.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> In some
>>>>> good bits, they decide to give the Rows some personality - Duela wants
>>>>> to split town while Turner and Robin/Carrie go into the Tower, but
>>>>> Cullen Row refuses to be a traitorous bitch (Harper backs him up). So
>>>>> Duela leaves the Rows there! and splits all on her own!!
>>>>> The YOUTS, minus Duela. end up having to battle the Talon in Bruce's
>>>>> old penthouse office, but in the dumbest bit of the episode, they
>>>>> escape via Robin's zip-line (how long was that zip-line, and what the
>>>>> Hell was it attached to?!!).
>>>>
>>>> Miles. Miles and miles long. (assuming it goes to the ground). It’s only at
>>>> about a 5 to 10° angle and it’s absolutely rigid, not bowing under the
>>>> YOUTS weight. That was every bit as stupid as the stars whooshing past Ark
>>>> one’s windows. And why did Robin have four sets of pulleys handy? And make
>>>> no mistake they did not have harnesses they were just holding on with their
>>>> hands.
>>>
>>> Yeah, that was ridiculous. Especially since there appeared to have
>>> been buildings that were much closer. Still to far for any such rig to
>>> actually work but at least it wouldn't have been quite so stupid. I
>>> had the same question about the pulleys. I thought maybe they had some
>>> sort of auto-return function but that clearly wasn't the case.
>>>
>>
>> Nope. Plus if the danger is eminent enough that they had to do that why
>> isn’t it imminent enough to cut the zip line?
>
> I'm amazed the Talon didn't break through the door and cut the zip
> line but that would have mercifully put us all out of our misery.
>

That’s what I was waiting for.

>
>>>> I came within the proverbial hairs breath of pushing the “never again”
>>>> button right there and then.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
>>>>> cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
>>>>> and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
>>>>> for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
>>>>> against the Talon and actually hold their own!
>>>
>>> So the Talon is at Wayne Enterprises and then is at this pawn shop
>>> guy's place in time to stop the deal with Duela even though Duela left
>>> WE long before the Talon did. So does the Talon have a transporter or
>>> some other magical means of getting across the city. Also how did he
>>> know that she was there because the pawn shop guy hadn't called so she
>>> might have showed up a few hours later.
>>
>> The Talon is apparently immortal and magic.
>
> He must be to do all that we see. I was kind of hoping that we would
> get some clue that there's more than one Talon as that would explain a
> lot but apparently we only have one guy who has Jack Bauer level
> travel skills and apparently a very good tailor who makes explosive
> proof suits.

Did anybody else think it looks like his helmet was morphing like his face
was changing underneath? It was so dark. It was hard to tell.

>
>>>
>>>>> Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
>>>>> Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
>>>>> Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
>>>>> them from Turner.
>>>>> Improvements from the pilot:
>>>>> - Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
>>>>> the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
>>>>> to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
>>>>> still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
>>>>> secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
>>>>> stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
>>>>> the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
>>>>> cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
>>>>> - Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
>>>>> instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
>>>>> more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
>>>>> approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
>>>>> if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
>>>>> actually wasn't useless in this one.
>>>>> - They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
>>>>> Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
>>>>> most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
>>>>> Stuff made worse from the pilot:
>>>>> - In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
>>>>> seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
>>>>> total waste of a cool set.
>>>>
>>>> And without a warrant, on the fly, the district attorney tells them to
>>>> confiscate everything the victim owned. Good thing every law-enforcement
>>>> person in Gotham is a crook.
>>>
>>> Also how did they even know the bat cave was there? It's not like
>>> Batman left directions to his secret lair lying around.
>>
>> Also, didn’t they come in from the other end? So they didn’t find it by
>> searching the house they just looked around the grounds for a sign that
>> said Gotham city 12 miles.
>
> Now they could have explained a bit of it if they showed us the evil
> Alfred replacement showing them to the Bat Cave since we know she's
> with the Court of Owls and they apparently know everything. Or do they
> since they've apparently had it out for the Waynes for decades but yet
> always take long enough for another generation of Waynes to come along
> to take the reigns when their parents are killed.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2023 04:33:54 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 23:35:30 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:12:46 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
>>>>>> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>>>>>>

>>> Nope. Plus if the danger is eminent enough that they had to do that why
>>> isn’t it imminent enough to cut the zip line?
>>
>> I'm amazed the Talon didn't break through the door and cut the zip
>> line but that would have mercifully put us all out of our misery.
>>
>
>That’s what I was waiting for.
>
>
>>
>>>>> I came within the proverbial hairs breath of pushing the “never again”
>>>>> button right there and then.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, Duela goes to sell the watch they stole from the dirty
>>>>>> cop in the pilot, but she has unsurprisingly been sold out to the Owls,
>>>>>> and the Talon shows up to ice her. Duela would be toasted were it not
>>>>>> for the YOUTS showing up to save her bacon - Turner and Robin go up
>>>>>> against the Talon and actually hold their own!
>>>>
>>>> So the Talon is at Wayne Enterprises and then is at this pawn shop
>>>> guy's place in time to stop the deal with Duela even though Duela left
>>>> WE long before the Talon did. So does the Talon have a transporter or
>>>> some other magical means of getting across the city. Also how did he
>>>> know that she was there because the pawn shop guy hadn't called so she
>>>> might have showed up a few hours later.
>>>
>>> The Talon is apparently immortal and magic.
>>
>> He must be to do all that we see. I was kind of hoping that we would
>> get some clue that there's more than one Talon as that would explain a
>> lot but apparently we only have one guy who has Jack Bauer level
>> travel skills and apparently a very good tailor who makes explosive
>> proof suits.
>
>Did anybody else think it looks like his helmet was morphing like his face
>was changing underneath? It was so dark. It was hard to tell.

I had a thought. Because this is a re-imagining perhaps the Talon is
actually Two-Face. One face is the Talon and the other is Harvey Dent.

>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Robin's question at the end: How did the Talon know they were in
>>>>>> Wayne Tower in order to be able to show up?
>>>>>> Also, Robin has stolen some pages from Bruce's final diary to keep
>>>>>> them from Turner.
>>>>>> Improvements from the pilot:
>>>>>> - Somebody backstage got their act together, and seemed to settle
>>>>>> the character of Stephanie Brown down - in this episode, there seemed
>>>>>> to be no hints that she is anything but one of the good guys (they can
>>>>>> still change their minds later, surely!), and is giving off no "I'm a
>>>>>> secret bad guy!!" vibes... Unfortunately, in this ep, Stephanie got
>>>>>> stuck in a subplot with her getting busted for her computer hacking in
>>>>>> the pilot episode, with school chum Brody Marsh (why is this guy main
>>>>>> cast?!) taking the fall for her instead.
>>>>>> - Also, the fighting from Robin was more realistic in this episode -
>>>>>> instead of kicking guys' asses, Robin's fighting in this episode was
>>>>>> more defensive and reactive (and was tag-teaming with Turner). I
>>>>>> approve. (I don't think Duela fought anyone in this episode, so I dunno
>>>>>> if she still fights with "Buffy-level" powers or not.) And Turner
>>>>>> actually wasn't useless in this one.
>>>>>> - They give Cullen Row more of a personality in this ep. Sister
>>>>>> Harper is also a little better in this as well, though is still the
>>>>>> most underdeveloped character, along with Carrie.
>>>>>> Stuff made worse from the pilot:
>>>>>> - In this ep, the cops and Harvey Dent lock down the Bat Cave, which
>>>>>> seems to make it off-limits for the rest of the season - seems like a
>>>>>> total waste of a cool set.
>>>>>
>>>>> And without a warrant, on the fly, the district attorney tells them to
>>>>> confiscate everything the victim owned. Good thing every law-enforcement
>>>>> person in Gotham is a crook.
>>>>
>>>> Also how did they even know the bat cave was there? It's not like
>>>> Batman left directions to his secret lair lying around.
>>>
>>> Also, didn’t they come in from the other end? So they didn’t find it by
>>> searching the house they just looked around the grounds for a sign that
>>> said Gotham city 12 miles.
>>
>> Now they could have explained a bit of it if they showed us the evil
>> Alfred replacement showing them to the Bat Cave since we know she's
>> with the Court of Owls and they apparently know everything. Or do they
>> since they've apparently had it out for the Waynes for decades but yet
>> always take long enough for another generation of Waynes to come along
>> to take the reigns when their parents are killed.
>
>Yeah, I don’t see why the owls would have bothered to kill Bruce Wayne. For
>that matter, I’m not sure why anybody who knows who he is would kill him.
>You could cause him a lot more trouble pretty much any other way.

The only way I see to explain it is that the Court of Owls has a
strict rule that no one outside the Court can know that the Court
really exists. Except for those that the Court needs to use to keep
their power, but as soon as they don't need them, off with their head.
Except in the case of the bat where they toss him out the window but
with no other sign of a fight so it looks like he might have committed
suicide but the cops assume he was murdered even though the message
left behind might have been a suicide note from the Batman. I mean
everyone took that message as a sign that Bruce Wayne was the Batman
and not some other sort of message.

Strange.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> - I'm also getting sick of Turner's EVOL!!1! nanny(?!)
>>>>>
>>>>> She’s the butler. Butlers are usually, but not always, male. She said she
>>>>> was the equivalent of Alfred.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the event of Bruce’s death, I would assume she would also be Turner’s
>>>>> guardian.
>>>>
>>>> You would think the world's greatest detective might have caught on to
>>>> the fact that the woman living under his roof was one of the bad guys.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And that right there is the problem. When they say something stupid on the
>>> ark, it actually energizes me to bitch about it. When they say something
>>> stupid on Gotham nights, it just makes me sigh heavily, and want to fall
>>> back asleep.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> who works for
>>>>>> the Owls.
>>>>
>>>>
>>

On 2023-03-24 9:12 p.m., anim8rfsk wrote:
> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>> Gotham Knights (recorded) - "Scene of the Crime" (ep. #2). I liked this
>> ep more than Anim did, but it was a step down from the pilot.
>>
>> The framed YOUTS look for evidence of the existence of Court of
>> Owls, especially after they find out that the corrupt detective from
>> the pilot has turned up *decapitated* - meaning the the Owl's assassin,
>> the "Talon", got to him.
>
> So explain this to me. There is absolutely no evidence that the court of
> owls exists. No one has ever heard of them. And yet everyone knows about
> their chief assassin right down to his name.

If he goes around messily killing people people would notice and give
him a name even if they don't know who he's working for.