The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
zillion years!!

> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
got this from.

--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

>I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>zillion years!!

>>Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

>I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>got this from.

When I was young and restless, you'd hear it everywhere. Big on Muzak.
Then Nadia used it.

Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS
>
> I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
> zillion years!!
>
>> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.
>
> I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
> find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
> got this from.
>
>

The YouTube says the name of it is “lost“

That sure isn’t the same. “bless the beasts and the children“ that Karen
Carpenter sang.

https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0

https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY

https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>>The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

>>I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>zillion years!!

>>>Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

>>I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>got this from.

>The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"

>That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>Carpenter sang.

It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
movie in years. I read the book at a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.

>https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0

This is the music I'm talking about.

>https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
novel (or the movie).

>https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY

Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports
tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.

>https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>>>> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS
>
>>> I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>> zillion years!!
>
>>>> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.
>
>>> I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>> find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>> got this from.
>
>> The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"
>
>> That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>> Carpenter sang.
>
> It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
> scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
> way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
> movie in years. I read the book at a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
> I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
> movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.

OK, so we’re talking about a piece of music, title unknown, that’s from the
movie, BTB&C, but not called that. Got it.

>
>> https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0
>
> This is the music I'm talking about.
>
>> https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4
>
> Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
> novel (or the movie).

Just to double up your headache, the second “the” is in the lyrics, but not
in the song title.

Songwriters: Barry De Vorzon / Perry L Botkin
Bless the Beasts and Children lyrics © BMG Rights Management, Sony/ATV
Music Publishing LLC, Warner Chappell Music, Inc

>
>> https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY
>
> Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports

Heh

> tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.
>
>> https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS
>>> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.
>>
>> I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>> find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>> got this from.
>
> The YouTube says the name of it is “lost“
>
> That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children“ that Karen
> Carpenter sang.
>
> https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0

I thought it was called "Nadia's Theme".

--
Let's go Brandon!

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>>>>The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

>>>>I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>>>zillion years!!

>>>>>Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>>>Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

>>>>I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>>>find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>>>got this from.

>>>The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"

>>>That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>>>Carpenter sang.

>>It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
>>scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
>>way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
>>movie in years. I read the book at a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
>>I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
>>movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.

>OK, so we're talking about a piece of music, title unknown, that's from the
>movie, BTB&C, but not called that. Got it.

I've seen a reference to "Cotton's Dream" but I haven't seen the movie
in so long, I just don't recall the scene it underscores. Now I'm
curious and I'm going to have to dig up the movie.

Everyone recalls that Billy Mumy was second lead in this movie (although
I suppose he would have received higher billing than the actual lead)
following Lost In Space. I just noticed TCM did a family comedy I didn't
care for that Billy Mumy did before Lost In Space, Dear Brigitte, in
which he played the little boy who wrote love letters to Brigitte
Bardot. At least the kid had good taste.
>>>https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0

>>This is the music I'm talking about.

>>>https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

>>Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>>novel (or the movie).

>Just to double up your headache, the second "the" is in the lyrics, but not
>in the song title.

>Songwriters: Barry De Vorzon / Perry L Botkin
>Bless the Beasts and Children lyrics (c) BMG Rights Management, Sony/ATV
>Music Publishing LLC, Warner Chappell Music, Inc

I'm not surprised. Still you'd think someone would have denied the lyric.

I think the novel's title is based on a children's prayer which is an
excerpt from a very long benediction in the Book of Common Prayer. The
prayer is undoubtably in the novel.
>>>https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY

>>Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports

>Heh

You always get my references.

>>tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.

>>>https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>>>>>> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS
>
>>>>> I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>>>> zillion years!!
>
>>>>>> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>>>> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.
>
>>>>> I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>>>> find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>>>> got this from.
>
>>>> The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"
>
>>>> That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>>>> Carpenter sang.
>
>>> It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
>>> scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
>>> way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
>>> movie in years. I read the book at a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
>>> I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
>>> movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.
>
>> OK, so we're talking about a piece of music, title unknown, that's from the
>> movie, BTB&C, but not called that. Got it.
>
> I've seen a reference to "Cotton's Dream" but I haven't seen the movie
> in so long, I just don't recall the scene it underscores. Now I'm
> curious and I'm going to have to dig up the movie.

At this point, I am completely conflating this with “sunshine“

>
> Everyone recalls that Billy Mumy was second lead in this movie (although
> I suppose he would have received higher billing than the actual lead)

Cliff de Young

> following Lost In Space. I just noticed TCM did a family comedy I didn't
> care for that Billy Mumy did before Lost In Space, Dear Brigitte, in
> which he played the little boy who wrote love letters to Brigitte
> Bardot. At least the kid had good taste.

That’s not only the first thing I ever saw Mumy in, it’s probably the first
thing I ever saw Bardot in, and the first thing I ever saw Jimmy Stewart
in.

>
>>>> https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0
>
>>> This is the music I'm talking about.
>
>>>> https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4
>
>>> Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>>> novel (or the movie).
>
>> Just to double up your headache, the second "the" is in the lyrics, but not
>> in the song title.
>
>> Songwriters: Barry De Vorzon / Perry L Botkin
>> Bless the Beasts and Children lyrics (c) BMG Rights Management, Sony/ATV
>> Music Publishing LLC, Warner Chappell Music, Inc
>
> I'm not surprised. Still you'd think someone would have denied the lyric.
>

I found it interesting because Karen never actually sings the title of the
song. Sort of like Rita Coolidge never sang “Octopussy“

> I think the novel's title is based on a children's prayer which is an
> excerpt from a very long benediction in the Book of Common Prayer. The
> prayer is undoubtably in the novel.
>
>>>> https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY
>
>>> Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports
>
>> Heh
>
> You always get my references.

Yesterday they were Hedley LaMarr photos on the Facebook (I’m not sure why)
and the day before I was looking for a harumph so it was all fresh in my
mind. :-)

But I especially liked that one just because if you were reading fast you
could’ve missed it completely!

>
>>> tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.
>
>>>> https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>>>>>>The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

>>>>>>I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>>>>>zillion years!!

>>>>>>>Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>>>>>Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

>>>>>>I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>>>>>find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>>>>>got this from.

>>>>>The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"

>>>>>That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>>>>>Carpenter sang.

>>>>It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
>>>>scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
>>>>way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
>>>>movie in years. I read the book at a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
>>>>I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
>>>>movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.

>>>OK, so we're talking about a piece of music, title unknown, that's from the
>>>movie, BTB&C, but not called that. Got it.

>>I've seen a reference to "Cotton's Dream" but I haven't seen the movie
>>in so long, I just don't recall the scene it underscores. Now I'm
>>curious and I'm going to have to dig up the movie.

>At this point, I am completely conflating this with "sunshine"
>>Everyone recalls that Billy Mumy was second lead in this movie (although
>>I suppose he would have received higher billing than the actual lead)

>Cliff de Young

Your Sunshine references are whooshing me.

Barry Robins; I had to look him up because he's not known for anything
else.

>>following Lost In Space. I just noticed TCM did a family comedy I didn't
>>care for that Billy Mumy did before Lost In Space, Dear Brigitte, in
>>which he played the little boy who wrote love letters to Brigitte
>>Bardot. At least the kid had good taste.

>That's not only the first thing I ever saw Mumy in, it's probably the first
>thing I ever saw Bardot in, and the first thing I ever saw Jimmy Stewart in.

I'm not sure you get the right impression of Bardot unless you see her
European movies. TCM will play And God Created Woman (1956) in which
she's barefoot throughout, not to mention nekid. I suppose no one showed
this movie to Billy Mumy.

>>>>>https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

>>>>Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>>>>novel (or the movie).

>>>Just to double up your headache, the second "the" is in the lyrics, but not
>>>in the song title.

>>>Songwriters: Barry De Vorzon / Perry L Botkin
>>>Bless the Beasts and Children lyrics (c) BMG Rights Management, Sony/ATV
>>>Music Publishing LLC, Warner Chappell Music, Inc

>>I'm not surprised. Still you'd think someone would have denied the lyric.

>I found it interesting because Karen never actually sings the title of the
>song. Sort of like Rita Coolidge never sang “Octopussy“

All she wanted was a sweet distraction for an hour or two.

>>. . .

>>>>>https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY

>>>>Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports

>>>Heh

>>You always get my references.

>Yesterday they were Hedley LaMarr photos on the Facebook (I'm not sure why)
>and the day before I was looking for a harumph so it was all fresh in my
>mind. :-)

You can sue HER!

>But I especially liked that one just because if you were reading fast you
>could've missed it completely!
>>>>. . .

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>>>>>>>> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS
>
>>>>>>> I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>>>>>> zillion years!!
>
>>>>>>>> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>>>>>> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.
>
>>>>>>> I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>>>>>> find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>>>>>> got this from.
>
>>>>>> The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"
>
>>>>>> That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>>>>>> Carpenter sang.
>
>>>>> It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
>>>>> scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
>>>>> way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
>>>>> movie in years. I read the book at a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
>>>>> I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
>>>>> movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.
>
>>>> OK, so we're talking about a piece of music, title unknown, that's from the
>>>> movie, BTB&C, but not called that. Got it.
>
>>> I've seen a reference to "Cotton's Dream" but I haven't seen the movie
>>> in so long, I just don't recall the scene it underscores. Now I'm
>>> curious and I'm going to have to dig up the movie.
>
>> At this point, I am completely conflating this with "sunshine"
>
>>> Everyone recalls that Billy Mumy was second lead in this movie (although
>>> I suppose he would have received higher billing than the actual lead)
>
>> Cliff de Young
>
> Your Sunshine references are whooshing me.

SUNSHINE was a 1973 TV movie, co-starring Bill Mumy, and was the most
highly rated TV movie ever at the time.
It’s theme was the equally popular John Denver song.

https://youtu.be/LeAzT-ZzRPc

https://youtu.be/b5aQ2dLzzXs

In 1975 it became a very short-lived TV series, also costarring Bill Mumy.

It got one last hurrah in 1977 with SUNSHINE CHRISTMAS. Also costarring
Bill Mumy.

With Christina Raines, Cliff de Young, Meg Foster, Brenda Vaccaro, and
Barbara Hershey as “Cody Blanks“

Based on the true story that rocked the nation!

Get the soundtrack album!

Buy the multiple novelizations!

See the movie on 4K!

See the other movie that’s a blatant rip off of it!

>
> Barry Robins; I had to look him up because he's not known for anything
> else.
>
>>> following Lost In Space. I just noticed TCM did a family comedy I didn't
>>> care for that Billy Mumy did before Lost In Space, Dear Brigitte, in
>>> which he played the little boy who wrote love letters to Brigitte
>>> Bardot. At least the kid had good taste.
>
>> That's not only the first thing I ever saw Mumy in, it's probably the first
>> thing I ever saw Bardot in, and the first thing I ever saw Jimmy Stewart in.
>
> I'm not sure you get the right impression of Bardot unless you see her
> European movies. TCM will play And God Created Woman (1956) in which
> she's barefoot throughout, not to mention nekid. I suppose no one showed
> this movie to Billy Mumy.
>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4
>
>>>>> Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>>>>> novel (or the movie).
>
>>>> Just to double up your headache, the second "the" is in the lyrics, but not
>>>> in the song title.
>
>>>> Songwriters: Barry De Vorzon / Perry L Botkin
>>>> Bless the Beasts and Children lyrics (c) BMG Rights Management, Sony/ATV
>>>> Music Publishing LLC, Warner Chappell Music, Inc
>
>>> I'm not surprised. Still you'd think someone would have denied the lyric.
>
>> I found it interesting because Karen never actually sings the title of the
>> song. Sort of like Rita Coolidge never sang “Octopussy“
>
> All she wanted was a sweet distraction for an hour or two.
>
>>> . . .
>
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY
>
>>>>> Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports
>
>>>> Heh
>
>>> You always get my references.
>
>> Yesterday they were Hedley LaMarr photos on the Facebook (I'm not sure why)
>> and the day before I was looking for a harumph so it was all fresh in my
>> mind. :-)
>
> You can sue HER!
>
>> But I especially liked that one just because if you were reading fast you
>> could've missed it completely!
>
>>>>> . . .
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>. . .

>SUNSHINE was a 1973 TV movie, co-starring Bill Mumy, and was the most
>highly rated TV movie ever at the time. . . .

Thanks for all that. I have no memory of any of it.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> SUNSHINE was a 1973 TV movie, co-starring Bill Mumy, and was the most
>> highly rated TV movie ever at the time. . . .
>
> Thanks for all that. I have no memory of any of it.
>

Sure. I wasn’t trying intentionally to whoosh you. Who would think that if
we were asked “what’s that movie from the early 1970s with the famous title
song performed by a singer who died way too young and Bill Mumy was the
costar?“ we would come up with different and yet equally correct answers?

By the way, Ian’s Wikipedia on the film contains all the answers in one
lump:

Soundtrack and score
The music for the film was composed by Barry De Vorzon and Perry Botkin Jr.
Their score included an instrumental selection titled "Cotton's Dream",
which was later rescored to become the theme song of the soap opera The
Young and the Restless, produced by Columbia's television division, now
Sony Pictures Television. In late July or early August 1976, when ABC's
sports summary program Wide World of Sports produced a montage of Romanian
gymnast Nadia Comăneci's routines during the 1976 Summer Olympics and used
"Cotton's Dream" as the background music, the song became more popular; it
was subsequently released in a re-edited and lengthened form as "Nadia's
Theme", the title under which it became best known. (Comăneci herself never
performed her floor exercises using this piece of music, however.) De
Vorzon and Botkin Jr. also wrote lyrics for "Cotton's Dream," but no vocal
version of it was known to have charted as of August 2017. The film's
soundtrack also contains its theme song, performed by The Carpenters. The
theme was released as the B side of The Carpenters' single "Superstar",
which reached #2 on Billboard's Hot 100.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>>>The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS

>>>I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>>zillion years!!

>>>>Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>>Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.

>>>I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>>find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>>got this from.

>>The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"

>>That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>>Carpenter sang.

>It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
>scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
>way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
>movie in years. I read the book as a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
>I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
>movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.

I borrowed a DVD of the movie from the library. Now I'm more confused
than ever.

This was a movie aimed at kids, pre-teens and teens. Five of the six boys
who are the featured characters in the story are teens; the sixth is the
younger brother of one boy, a pre-teen.

The pre-credit sequence IS Cotton's dream. Cotton perceives himself
and the other five boys as standins for the buffalo herd that's being
culled. The hunters wear kerchiefs, but one removes it, revealing herself
to be Cotton's mother, who shoots him dead.

Because it's very early in the morning, we hear the famous Sousa march
Semper Fidelis like a transistor radio has just been turned on, tuned in
to an FM station just going on air.

The instrumental "Cotton's Dream" is not incidental music used in this
scene. I guess that was the director's choice about how to score the scene.

The movie soundtrack was composed by Barry De Vorzon and Perry Botkin
Jr. Someone uploaded the whole soundtrack album to YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAg-Ve6V2Vc

On the soundtrack album, it's side 1 track 2. The version you found, with
lyrics, called "Lost", is side 1 track 5. It's sung by Renee Armand.
It's not used in the movie.

Instead, the instrumental is reworked slightly for the "reprisal" in the
final scene as the buffalo finally roam free. "Free" is side 2 track 5.

>>https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0

That's the instrumental re-arranged by Botkin to serve as the theme for
The Young and the Restless.

>This is the music I'm talking about.

>>https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

>Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>novel (or the movie).

This is even more confusing. Here is the movie's theme song together
with the opening credits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lMNWGgswgU

In the credits, both the movie's title and the novel's title are Bless
the Beasts & Children; note the ampersand. Typically, in catalogs, there
is no ampersand and the word "and" is spelled out for the bibliographic
record of both the movie and book.

At timepoint 1:18, note the titlecard for the theme song. It's "Bless the
Beasts and the Children", "and" spelled out, with the second word "the",
as in the lyric Karen sings. But the band is attributed as "Carpenters",
no "the"! We assume it's Richard's arrangement or at least he's playing in
studio, but who knows. If it's not Richard's arrangement, then someone else
(Botkin?) arranged it as Richard would have to complement Karen's voice.

The Carpenters were allowed to release this as a single, the B side of
"Superstar", and on one of their albums.

>>https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY

>Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports
>tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.

>>https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs

That's side 1 track 4 of the soundtrack album, instrumental version of
the theme and first reprisal.

The movie was rated GP (General audience, parental guidance suggest). GP
had replaced M (Mature audience, parental discretion advised) in 1970
and was in turn replaced by PG in 1972.

This is kind of a tough movie for kids, given the homicidal nature of
Cotton's dream, which starts the movie, and the repeated stock footage
of culling of a buffalo herd in the dream sequence and throughout the
movie, which is pretty bloody.

I saw the movie once before. I think they showed it to us in school,
but I'd already read the novel. I may have been too young to have seen
it in theater.

The novel was episodic, with separate portions devoted to each kid
individually.

The movie script is more of a linear story with flashbacks introducing
each of the kids' backstories and scenes at Box Canyon Boys Camp,
somewhere in Arizona.

Cotton (Barry Robins) is the lead character and the leader of the other
five kids. The actor cries on cue and chews scenery like a pro. His parents
are divorced and his father has limited custody. He wants to be a Marine
like his dad. His mother somewhat neglects him and lies about Cotton's
age to the boyfriends she brings home, to make herself appear younger;
she wants to remarry.

Teft (Bill Mumy) steals cars, which he sometimes crashes, and picks locks.
His father, an investment manager, buys his son's way out of trouble. We
don't see his mother. He's a decent shot with a target rifle.

Shecker (Miles Chapin) is the fat kid who has been taught to perform by
his father (Jesse White), a famous comic that all the kids know. He's also
the Jewish kid; there's no kid from Brooklyn, but this isn't a war movie.

Goodenow (Darel Glaser) wishes his parents were divorced. His mother
endlessly babies him and his father is convinced she's turned him into a
fairy. The credits list him as a stepfather but I don't recall that
stated in dialogue.

Then there are the Lally brothers, referred to as 1 and 2. The younger
one, who carries a pillow for security, is much younger than the rest
of the campers. The older one is jealous of the younger brother, who
is the favorite in the family and allowed to get away with stuff. In
the backstory, we see them in family counseling; the older one sets the
security pillow on fire because the younger one grabbed all the candy
the doctor offered.

The camp gives out awards by cabin; the six kids are the misfits and all
share a cabin. The rest of the camp calls them the Bedwetters. Their award,
for being the worst, is a chamber pot. Goodenow, literally a bedwetter,
was thrown out of another cabin.

Wheaties (Ken Swofford), is one of the camp counselors and lives in
their cabin. He can't stand his charges.

The camp scenes show various incidents of being picked on by the other
kids, but the key scene is Wheaties taking the kids to see the buffalo herd
being culled. Hunting licenses were sold to the public. There was a drawing
for which hunters could shoot the buffalo. The boys were particularly
appalled by a child hunter pulling a buffalo head in a wagon. The child
hunter admitted he wasn't a very good shot. It had taken a while for the
buffalo to die, after many shots.

Pushed in particular by Lally 2 and Goodenow, the boys decides to free
the remaining herd before the hunters return for additional culling.
Cotton leads them in their journey.

They ride horses, steal a pickup truck from an exterminator, and finally
have to walk because Teft forgot to fill the gas tank.

At the wildlife site, Teft finds a padlock on the pen he can't pick and
steals another pickup truck from one of the hunters to pull down the
gate.

Cotton has the boys noisily shoo the buffalo out of the pen, but the
buffalo do not roam. They simply start grazing. Cotton has Teft shoot
his rifle trying to stampede them, but it's too small a caliber, he's
too far away, and he has too little ammunition remaining.

The hunters arrive, and Cotton drives the truck toward the herd to get
them moving. The hunters, from a great distance, all shoot at the truck
trying to shoot out the tires. Cotton is killed.

With Cotton's sacrifice, the boys stand taller and the buffalo finally
make their escape.

I remember liking parts of the movie. It's supposed to be anti-hunting,
although the hunting we see has absolutely no sportsmanship given that
the game animals are already in a pen. Mumy is clearly the more
experienced actor.

However, certain scenes direct the kids like they were Disney kids. Too
many times, the performances aren't natural. The child actors memorized
the dialogue and must have been given heavy-handed direction on how the
directed wanted them emote.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>>>>> The Young and the Restless was first aired March 26, 1973. CBS
>
>>>> I saw some of it on Thursday - Mamie was on it for the first time in a
>>>> zillion years!!
>
>>>>> Its theme is the theme from Bless the Beasts and Children, long before
>>>>> Nadia Comaneci used it for her floor program in the 1976 Olympics.
>
>>>> I could swear the name of the song was "The Death of Hope", but I can
>>>> find no evidence that it was ever called this, so I don't know where I
>>>> got this from.
>
>>> The YouTube says the name of it is "lost"
>
>>> That sure isn't the same. "bless the beasts and the children" that Karen
>>> Carpenter sang.
>
>> It's not. The music I'm talking about was on the soundtrack scoring a
>> scene featuring the John Cotton character. I think it's about 2/5 of the
>> way into the movie. I can't really recall because I haven't seen the
>> movie in years. I read the book as a yout'. I'd have been old enough but
>> I didn't see movie in theater. Actually, I think they showed us the
>> movie in high school but I'd read the novel earlier.
>
> I borrowed a DVD of the movie from the library. Now I'm more confused
> than ever.
>
> This was a movie aimed at kids, pre-teens and teens. Five of the six boys
> who are the featured characters in the story are teens; the sixth is the
> younger brother of one boy, a pre-teen.
>
> The pre-credit sequence IS Cotton's dream. Cotton perceives himself
> and the other five boys as standins for the buffalo herd that's being
> culled. The hunters wear kerchiefs, but one removes it, revealing herself
> to be Cotton's mother, who shoots him dead.
>
> Because it's very early in the morning, we hear the famous Sousa march
> Semper Fidelis like a transistor radio has just been turned on, tuned in
> to an FM station just going on air.
>
> The instrumental "Cotton's Dream" is not incidental music used in this
> scene. I guess that was the director's choice about how to score the scene.
>
> The movie soundtrack was composed by Barry De Vorzon and Perry Botkin
> Jr. Someone uploaded the whole soundtrack album to YouTube.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAg-Ve6V2Vc
>
> On the soundtrack album, it's side 1 track 2. The version you found, with
> lyrics, called "Lost", is side 1 track 5. It's sung by Renee Armand.
> It's not used in the movie.
>
> Instead, the instrumental is reworked slightly for the "reprisal" in the
> final scene as the buffalo finally roam free. "Free" is side 2 track 5.
>
>>> https://youtu.be/gWFP-P9YBv0
>
> That's the instrumental re-arranged by Botkin to serve as the theme for
> The Young and the Restless.
>
>> This is the music I'm talking about.
>
>>> https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4
>
>> Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>> novel (or the movie).
>
> This is even more confusing. Here is the movie's theme song together
> with the opening credits.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lMNWGgswgU
>
> In the credits, both the movie's title and the novel's title are Bless
> the Beasts & Children; note the ampersand. Typically, in catalogs, there
> is no ampersand and the word "and" is spelled out for the bibliographic
> record of both the movie and book.
>
> At timepoint 1:18, note the titlecard for the theme song. It's "Bless the
> Beasts and the Children", "and" spelled out, with the second word "the",
> as in the lyric Karen sings. But the band is attributed as "Carpenters",
> no "the"! We assume it's Richard's arrangement or at least he's playing in
> studio, but who knows. If it's not Richard's arrangement, then someone else
> (Botkin?) arranged it as Richard would have to complement Karen's voice.
>
> The Carpenters

CARPENTERS! TANJ dammit you got it right in the paragraph before. The name
of the group is simply “Carpenters“. No “The“. Karen would go apeshit on
anybody who got that wrong. All 67 pounds of her.

I have seen it wrong on stuff released since her death, but not while she
was around to control it. The only time the ‘the’ is acceptable is when
you’re talking about the brother and sister themselves and not the musical
group. Which you could’ve been doing above. But I’ll believe that when BTR
starts paying off on his ice cream.

were allowed to release this as a single, the B side of
> "Superstar", and on one of their albums.
>
>>> https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY
>
>> Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports
>> tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.
>
>>> https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs
>
> That's side 1 track 4 of the soundtrack album, instrumental version of
> the theme and first reprisal.
>
> The movie was rated GP (General audience, parental guidance suggest). GP
> had replaced M (Mature audience, parental discretion advised) in 1970
> and was in turn replaced by PG in 1972.
>
> This is kind of a tough movie for kids, given the homicidal nature of
> Cotton's dream, which starts the movie, and the repeated stock footage
> of culling of a buffalo herd in the dream sequence and throughout the
> movie, which is pretty bloody.
>
> I saw the movie once before. I think they showed it to us in school,
> but I'd already read the novel. I may have been too young to have seen
> it in theater.
>
> The novel was episodic, with separate portions devoted to each kid
> individually.
>
> The movie script is more of a linear story with flashbacks introducing
> each of the kids' backstories and scenes at Box Canyon Boys Camp,
> somewhere in Arizona.
>
> Cotton (Barry Robins) is the lead character and the leader of the other
> five kids. The actor cries on cue and chews scenery like a pro. His parents
> are divorced and his father has limited custody. He wants to be a Marine
> like his dad. His mother somewhat neglects him and lies about Cotton's
> age to the boyfriends she brings home, to make herself appear younger;
> she wants to remarry.
>
> Teft (Bill Mumy) steals cars, which he sometimes crashes, and picks locks.
> His father, an investment manager, buys his son's way out of trouble. We
> don't see his mother. He's a decent shot with a target rifle.
>
> Shecker (Miles Chapin) is the fat kid who has been taught to perform by
> his father (Jesse White), a famous comic that all the kids know. He's also
> the Jewish kid; there's no kid from Brooklyn, but this isn't a war movie.
>
> Goodenow (Darel Glaser) wishes his parents were divorced. His mother
> endlessly babies him and his father is convinced she's turned him into a
> fairy. The credits list him as a stepfather but I don't recall that
> stated in dialogue.
>
> Then there are the Lally brothers, referred to as 1 and 2. The younger
> one, who carries a pillow for security, is much younger than the rest
> of the campers. The older one is jealous of the younger brother, who
> is the favorite in the family and allowed to get away with stuff. In
> the backstory, we see them in family counseling; the older one sets the
> security pillow on fire because the younger one grabbed all the candy
> the doctor offered.
>
> The camp gives out awards by cabin; the six kids are the misfits and all
> share a cabin. The rest of the camp calls them the Bedwetters. Their award,
> for being the worst, is a chamber pot. Goodenow, literally a bedwetter,
> was thrown out of another cabin.
>
> Wheaties (Ken Swofford), is one of the camp counselors and lives in
> their cabin. He can't stand his charges.
>
> The camp scenes show various incidents of being picked on by the other
> kids, but the key scene is Wheaties taking the kids to see the buffalo herd
> being culled. Hunting licenses were sold to the public. There was a drawing
> for which hunters could shoot the buffalo. The boys were particularly
> appalled by a child hunter pulling a buffalo head in a wagon. The child
> hunter admitted he wasn't a very good shot. It had taken a while for the
> buffalo to die, after many shots.
>
> Pushed in particular by Lally 2 and Goodenow, the boys decides to free
> the remaining herd before the hunters return for additional culling.
> Cotton leads them in their journey.
>
> They ride horses, steal a pickup truck from an exterminator, and finally
> have to walk because Teft forgot to fill the gas tank.
>
> At the wildlife site, Teft finds a padlock on the pen he can't pick and
> steals another pickup truck from one of the hunters to pull down the
> gate.
>
> Cotton has the boys noisily shoo the buffalo out of the pen, but the
> buffalo do not roam. They simply start grazing. Cotton has Teft shoot
> his rifle trying to stampede them, but it's too small a caliber, he's
> too far away, and he has too little ammunition remaining.
>
> The hunters arrive, and Cotton drives the truck toward the herd to get
> them moving. The hunters, from a great distance, all shoot at the truck
> trying to shoot out the tires. Cotton is killed.
>
> With Cotton's sacrifice, the boys stand taller and the buffalo finally
> make their escape.
>
> I remember liking parts of the movie. It's supposed to be anti-hunting,
> although the hunting we see has absolutely no sportsmanship given that
> the game animals are already in a pen. Mumy is clearly the more
> experienced actor.
>
> However, certain scenes direct the kids like they were Disney kids. Too
> many times, the performances aren't natural. The child actors memorized
> the dialogue and must have been given heavy-handed direction on how the
> directed wanted them emote.
>

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

>>. . .

>>>This is the music I'm talking about.

>>>>https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4

>>>Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>>>novel (or the movie).

>>This is even more confusing. Here is the movie's theme song together
>>with the opening credits.

>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lMNWGgswgU

>>In the credits, both the movie's title and the novel's title are Bless
>>the Beasts & Children; note the ampersand. Typically, in catalogs, there
>>is no ampersand and the word "and" is spelled out for the bibliographic
>>record of both the movie and book.

>>At timepoint 1:18, note the titlecard for the theme song. It's "Bless the
>>Beasts and the Children", "and" spelled out, with the second word "the",
>>as in the lyric Karen sings. But the band is attributed as "Carpenters",
>>no "the"! We assume it's Richard's arrangement or at least he's playing in
>>studio, but who knows. If it's not Richard's arrangement, then someone else
>>(Botkin?) arranged it as Richard would have to complement Karen's voice.

>>The Carpenters

>CARPENTERS! TANJ dammit you got it right in the paragraph before. The name
>of the group is simply Carpenters. No The. Karen would go apeshit on
>anybody who got that wrong. All 67 pounds of her.

Every time they were introduced on tv, it's with "the" but I can't tell
if Ed Sullivan or the announcer capitalized it.

An Ed Sullivan show on location from Walter Reed army hospital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrsuLCF9FtI

On her show, Carol Burnett calls them Karen and Richard, but adds
herself to their act and says "The Carpenters and Carol". Richard keeps
insulting her. Hey! Richard is playing on a concert grand and not a toy
piano!

Note that Carol is singing straight, which she did too infrequently.
Most of us thought she had a fine singing voice, but she herself didn't,
which is why she often clowned around while singing. Around the 3 minute
mark, Carol starts clowning. In "What Do You Get When You Fall In Love",
Richard begins and has a very brief solo! And then again in later songs!

Alas, it's a medley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBipvhm014c

"The" by the announcer on The Bob Hope Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFHaO9uR4cI

She must have kept her temper in check a whole lot.

>I have seen it wrong on stuff released since her death, but not while she
>was around to control it. The only time the 'the' is acceptable is when
>you're talking about the brother and sister themselves and not the musical
>group. Which you could've been doing above. But I'll believe that when BTR
>starts paying off on his ice cream.

I thought there was a "the".

>>were allowed to release this as a single, the B side of
>>"Superstar", and on one of their albums.

>>>>https://youtu.be/Ttc9aCSRqEY

>>>Ok. I'm an idiot. That's from ABC What In The Wide Wide World of Sports
>>>tribute to Nadia. She never actually used the music in floor exercise.

>>>>https://youtu.be/yxUf6_VZYqs

>>That's side 1 track 4 of the soundtrack album, instrumental version of
>>the theme and first reprisal.

>>The movie was rated GP (General audience, parental guidance suggest). GP
>>had replaced M (Mature audience, parental discretion advised) in 1970
>>and was in turn replaced by PG in 1972.

>>This is kind of a tough movie for kids, given the homicidal nature of
>>Cotton's dream, which starts the movie, and the repeated stock footage
>>of culling of a buffalo herd in the dream sequence and throughout the
>>movie, which is pretty bloody.

>>I saw the movie once before. I think they showed it to us in school,
>>but I'd already read the novel. I may have been too young to have seen
>>it in theater.

>>The novel was episodic, with separate portions devoted to each kid
>>individually.

>>The movie script is more of a linear story with flashbacks introducing
>>each of the kids' backstories and scenes at Box Canyon Boys Camp,
>>somewhere in Arizona.

>>Cotton (Barry Robins) is the lead character and the leader of the other
>>five kids. The actor cries on cue and chews scenery like a pro. His parents
>>are divorced and his father has limited custody. He wants to be a Marine
>>like his dad. His mother somewhat neglects him and lies about Cotton's
>>age to the boyfriends she brings home, to make herself appear younger;
>>she wants to remarry.

>>Teft (Bill Mumy) steals cars, which he sometimes crashes, and picks locks.
>>His father, an investment manager, buys his son's way out of trouble. We
>>don't see his mother. He's a decent shot with a target rifle.

>>Shecker (Miles Chapin) is the fat kid who has been taught to perform by
>>his father (Jesse White), a famous comic that all the kids know. He's also
>>the Jewish kid; there's no kid from Brooklyn, but this isn't a war movie.

>>Goodenow (Darel Glaser) wishes his parents were divorced. His mother
>>endlessly babies him and his father is convinced she's turned him into a
>>fairy. The credits list him as a stepfather but I don't recall that
>>stated in dialogue.

>>Then there are the Lally brothers, referred to as 1 and 2. The younger
>>one, who carries a pillow for security, is much younger than the rest
>>of the campers. The older one is jealous of the younger brother, who
>>is the favorite in the family and allowed to get away with stuff. In
>>the backstory, we see them in family counseling; the older one sets the
>>security pillow on fire because the younger one grabbed all the candy
>>the doctor offered.

>>The camp gives out awards by cabin; the six kids are the misfits and all
>>share a cabin. The rest of the camp calls them the Bedwetters. Their award,
>>for being the worst, is a chamber pot. Goodenow, literally a bedwetter,
>>was thrown out of another cabin.

>>Wheaties (Ken Swofford), is one of the camp counselors and lives in
>>their cabin. He can't stand his charges.

>>The camp scenes show various incidents of being picked on by the other
>>kids, but the key scene is Wheaties taking the kids to see the buffalo herd
>>being culled. Hunting licenses were sold to the public. There was a drawing
>>for which hunters could shoot the buffalo. The boys were particularly
>>appalled by a child hunter pulling a buffalo head in a wagon. The child
>>hunter admitted he wasn't a very good shot. It had taken a while for the
>>buffalo to die, after many shots.

>>Pushed in particular by Lally 2 and Goodenow, the boys decides to free
>>the remaining herd before the hunters return for additional culling.
>>Cotton leads them in their journey.

>>They ride horses, steal a pickup truck from an exterminator, and finally
>>have to walk because Teft forgot to fill the gas tank.

>>At the wildlife site, Teft finds a padlock on the pen he can't pick and
>>steals another pickup truck from one of the hunters to pull down the
>>gate.

>>Cotton has the boys noisily shoo the buffalo out of the pen, but the
>>buffalo do not roam. They simply start grazing. Cotton has Teft shoot
>>his rifle trying to stampede them, but it's too small a caliber, he's
>>too far away, and he has too little ammunition remaining.

>>The hunters arrive, and Cotton drives the truck toward the herd to get
>>them moving. The hunters, from a great distance, all shoot at the truck
>>trying to shoot out the tires. Cotton is killed.

>>With Cotton's sacrifice, the boys stand taller and the buffalo finally
>>make their escape.

>>I remember liking parts of the movie. It's supposed to be anti-hunting,
>>although the hunting we see has absolutely no sportsmanship given that
>>the game animals are already in a pen. Mumy is clearly the more
>>experienced actor.

>>However, certain scenes direct the kids like they were Disney kids. Too
>>many times, the performances aren't natural. The child actors memorized
>>the dialogue and must have been given heavy-handed direction on how the
>>directed wanted them emote.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Ian J. Ball <IJBall@mac.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-03-25 01:45:30 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>>> . . .
>
>>>> This is the music I'm talking about.
>
>>>>> https://youtu.be/AhR36gV6vW4
>
>>>> Notice Karen sings the second "the", but that's not the title of the
>>>> novel (or the movie).
>
>>> This is even more confusing. Here is the movie's theme song together
>>> with the opening credits.
>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lMNWGgswgU
>
>>> In the credits, both the movie's title and the novel's title are Bless
>>> the Beasts & Children; note the ampersand. Typically, in catalogs, there
>>> is no ampersand and the word "and" is spelled out for the bibliographic
>>> record of both the movie and book.
>
>>> At timepoint 1:18, note the titlecard for the theme song. It's "Bless the
>>> Beasts and the Children", "and" spelled out, with the second word "the",
>>> as in the lyric Karen sings. But the band is attributed as "Carpenters",
>>> no "the"! We assume it's Richard's arrangement or at least he's playing in
>>> studio, but who knows. If it's not Richard's arrangement, then someone else
>>> (Botkin?) arranged it as Richard would have to complement Karen's voice.
>
>>> The Carpenters
>
>> CARPENTERS! TANJ dammit you got it right in the paragraph before. The name
>> of the group is simply Carpenters. No The. Karen would go apeshit on
>> anybody who got that wrong. All 67 pounds of her.
>
> Every time they were introduced on tv, it's with "the" but I can't tell
> if Ed Sullivan or the announcer capitalized it.
>
> An Ed Sullivan show on location from Walter Reed army hospital.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrsuLCF9FtI
>
> On her show, Carol Burnett calls them Karen and Richard, but adds
> herself to their act and says "The Carpenters and Carol". Richard keeps
> insulting her. Hey! Richard is playing on a concert grand and not a toy
> piano!
>
> Note that Carol is singing straight, which she did too infrequently.
> Most of us thought she had a fine singing voice, but she herself didn't,
> which is why she often clowned around while singing. Around the 3 minute
> mark, Carol starts clowning. In "What Do You Get When You Fall In Love",
> Richard begins and has a very brief solo! And then again in later songs!
>
> Alas, it's a medley.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBipvhm014c
>
> "The" by the announcer on The Bob Hope Show
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFHaO9uR4cI
>
> She must have kept her temper in check a whole lot.

I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don’t often see people tell
Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.

She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
There’s no ‘the’ anywhere on it. :-)

>
>> I have seen it wrong on stuff released since her death, but not while she
>> was around to control it. The only time the 'the' is acceptable is when
>> you're talking about the brother and sister themselves and not the musical
>> group. Which you could've been doing above. But I'll believe that when BTR
>> starts paying off on his ice cream.
>
> I thought there was a "the".

Nope

Geez, it’s been 40 years since she died. Amazing the stuff I still
remember.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>. . .

>I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don't often see people tell
>Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.

Did she and her brother ever appear again?

>She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
>There's no 'the' anywhere on it. :-)

Please tell that story. Also, does Phoenix have an inland port like
Kansas City I wasn't aware of?

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don't often see people tell
>> Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.
>
> Did she and her brother ever appear again?

Carson seemed cordial about it. I have no idea if they ever appeared again
but I don’t think that would’ve stopped them.

Let’s see… IMDB (which puts an improper “the” in front of the word
“carpenter” every time it appears, and Ian I expect you to go in and fix
that.) says she appeared on Carson eight times from 1970 to 1977 (and those
appearances are listed all out of order). I watched a couple on the
YouTube but got queasy when I saw them appearing with John Denver given
that’s how this thread started. Unless it just happened to happen on their
very last listed appearance, I would say they were fine. Carson seemed very
cordial, and in one introduction that I watched he actually used both
versions, but very definitely said “the“ when he was talking about the
people and simply “carpenters“ when he was talking about the group or
introducing them, which was interesting.

>
>> She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
>> There's no 'the' anywhere on it. :-)
>
> Please tell that story. Also, does Phoenix have an inland port like
> Kansas City I wasn't aware of?
>

Lol this was actually Lake Tahoe. My dad was running the companies hotel
group at the time and we went up for reasons I’m not entirely certain of
(this was 50 years ago), but we were going to see Carpenters in concert
while we were there. We were supposed to spend the day on the hotels boat
And when we got there The guy in charge said “oh we gave that to the group
that’s going to sing here tonight“ and clearly didn’t know that it was
reserved for us or for that matter who we were. There was actually talk
about making them come back, and the little teenage me was being the voice
of reason saying you know you can’t do that. It quieted down, but I suspect
more than one person ended up working at a gas station the next weekend.
Anyway, they were running around trying to think of ways to make nice and
one of them was to take the big framed photo that they had outside the
auditorium. And have them sign it for me. And it was still in my old
bedroom closet when we cleaned out mom‘s house. I assume it’s with the ark
of the covenant in my endless storage locker now.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

>Lol this was actually Lake Tahoe. . . .

Thanks for the story.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 01:22:49 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don't often see people tell
>>Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.
>
>Did she and her brother ever appear again?
>
>>She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
>>There's no 'the' anywhere on it. :-)
>
>Please tell that story. Also, does Phoenix have an inland port like
>Kansas City I wasn't aware of?

Shortly before my retirement I received a flier from a shipping
company detailing container rates from Shanghai or Hong Kong to nearly
every major North American city. I wasn't all that surprised to find
LA / San Diego had the lowest rate but WAS surprised to find that
Vancouver, Canada (which is Canada's largest port and on the west
coast and about a 2-3 day shorter trip from Shanghai than Shanghai -
LA) and Nashville had roughly the same rate. I'm assuming shipments
from the Far East to Nashville would have been shipped to a west coast
or Gulf port and trucked (or shipped by rail) the last leg of their
trip.

On 6/10/2023 11:29 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 01:22:49 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> . . .
>>
>>> I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don't often see people tell
>>> Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.
>>
>> Did she and her brother ever appear again?
>>
>>> She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
>>> There's no 'the' anywhere on it. :-)
>>
>> Please tell that story. Also, does Phoenix have an inland port like
>> Kansas City I wasn't aware of?
>
> Shortly before my retirement I received a flier from a shipping
> company detailing container rates from Shanghai or Hong Kong to nearly
> every major North American city. I wasn't all that surprised to find
> LA / San Diego had the lowest rate but WAS surprised to find that
> Vancouver, Canada (which is Canada's largest port and on the west
> coast and about a 2-3 day shorter trip from Shanghai than Shanghai -
> LA) and Nashville had roughly the same rate. I'm assuming shipments
> from the Far East to Nashville would have been shipped to a west coast
> or Gulf port and trucked (or shipped by rail) the last leg of their
> trip.

The Vancouver rates were in worthless Canadian dollars. :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Lol this was actually Lake Tahoe. . . .
>
> Thanks for the story.
>

Thanks for the asking!

The main thing I remember, is the hotel restaurant serving us eggs Benedict
(my first time) and they didn’t use that Canadian faux bacon stuff, they
used something else I’d never had which was filet mignon. Yum!

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 01:22:49 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> . . .
>>
>>> I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don't often see people tell
>>> Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.
>>
>> Did she and her brother ever appear again?
>>
>>> She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
>>> There's no 'the' anywhere on it. :-)
>>
>> Please tell that story. Also, does Phoenix have an inland port like
>> Kansas City I wasn't aware of?
>
> Shortly before my retirement I received a flier from a shipping
> company detailing container rates from Shanghai or Hong Kong to nearly
> every major North American city. I wasn't all that surprised to find
> LA / San Diego had the lowest rate but WAS surprised to find that
> Vancouver, Canada (which is Canada's largest port and on the west
> coast and about a 2-3 day shorter trip from Shanghai than Shanghai -
> LA) and Nashville had roughly the same rate. I'm assuming shipments
> from the Far East to Nashville would have been shipped to a west coast
> or Gulf port and trucked (or shipped by rail) the last leg of their
> trip.
>

I remember them telling us in high school that Phoenix has more boats per
capita than San Diego. Of course, a lot of stuff we learned in high school
was hooey…

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 12:37:07 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 6/10/2023 11:29 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 01:22:49 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> . . .
>>>
>>>> I actually saw her call Carson out on it. You don't often see people tell
>>>> Johnny Carson they got their name wrong.
>>>
>>> Did she and her brother ever appear again?
>>>
>>>> She gave me an inscribed autographed photo after they stole our boat.
>>>> There's no 'the' anywhere on it. :-)
>>>
>>> Please tell that story. Also, does Phoenix have an inland port like
>>> Kansas City I wasn't aware of?
>>
>> Shortly before my retirement I received a flier from a shipping
>> company detailing container rates from Shanghai or Hong Kong to nearly
>> every major North American city. I wasn't all that surprised to find
>> LA / San Diego had the lowest rate but WAS surprised to find that
>> Vancouver, Canada (which is Canada's largest port and on the west
>> coast and about a 2-3 day shorter trip from Shanghai than Shanghai -
>> LA) and Nashville had roughly the same rate. I'm assuming shipments
>> from the Far East to Nashville would have been shipped to a west coast
>> or Gulf port and trucked (or shipped by rail) the last leg of their
>> trip.
>
>The Vancouver rates were in worthless Canadian dollars. :P

Nice try but the list clearly specified USD for everything