"The Ladder of St. Augustine"
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

"The heights by great men reached and kept
Were not attained by sudden flight,
But they, while their companions slept,
Were toiling upward in the night."

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>
> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> But they, while their companions slept,
> Were toiling upward in the night."

Hi Mack.

Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:

AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS

Welcome to AAPC – the “in place” for poets and poetry fans to hang out in the 21st century.

You may have only recently discovered this group, but it has been around for a while, and therefore has a decades long history of archived posts that are accessible via the search function.

Start there. Learn from our history in order to not repeat our mistakes.

Then, before you post, please think about being interesting. We lose more visitors here due to lack of interest than any other single cause.

AAPC is an unmoderated group, so pretty much anything goes.

But while we don’t have any official set of rules per se, here are some guidelines for getting along with your fellow AAPC members:

1) Treat other members with some semblance of civility. Like generates like.. If you treat others with a little respect, they’ll probably return the favor.

2) Post On-Topic. The topic here is Poetry, so post an original poem or comment on someone else’s poetry. If you want to discuss folk music, “Star Trek,” comic books or post videos of the “talent” at your local karaoke bar, you’re in the wrong group.

3) Don’t over post. Limiting one’s posts to 10 per day is greatly appreciated. Making 25 posts per day can be damned annoying; so unless you’re the most interesting and knowledgeable writer on the planet, save it for your personal blog.

4) Don’t hijack other people’s threads. If a thread’s topic is “Walt Whitman,” you should only make a comment pertaining to Walt Whitman. If you wish to discuss a poem you’ve written that was inspired by Mr. Whitman, start your own thread.

5) Flame wars happen – especially in unmoderated groups like this one. However, there are certain lines that no one should ever cross. Don’t attack your opponent’s family members (unless he/she introduces them into the discussion). And remember that what happens on AAPC stays at AAPC. Don’t threaten to contact your opponent’s spouse, employer, etc.

6) Don’t repeat or bump posts. If you post an original poem and no one comments on it… tough cookies. Lack of response means that no one found it interesting enough to warrant one. If you must repost it, at least have the decency to wait a year or seven. While you’re waiting you can write something new and try posting it instead. Similarly, if you must bump, please limit yourself to one bump per poem or post.
*Seasonal poems, however, can be bumped/reposted each year.

7) Don’t respond to a post unless you have something of value to contribute to the thread. One word replies, and generic responses such as "I agree" and "yep" and "You nailed it" and "having another read" should be avoided. Comments mean comments, not clichés.

8) Don’t post and run. If you post a famous poem, make an original comment on it. We all have, or are capable of subscribing to, Poem a Day. We don’t need to read (or reread) every single poem that you do. If you like a poem, but can’t think of anything to say about it, don’t post it.

9) Don’t feed the trolls.

FAQs:

1. WHAT IS AAPC?
Alt.arts.poetry.comments is a Usenet group of poets who share their work
for comments or critiques. Some poets use the group as a sounding board
before submitting their poem(s) to literary magazines. Most are looking
for advice or help in fine-tuning their writing, developing better
images, improving their use of language, and making sure their writing
is clear and enjoyable to the reader.

2. WHAT DOES C&C MEAN?
Generally, Comments & Critiques (or Criticism). Some writers put this
in the header of their post (i.e. "Lazy Day Poem - C&C Please") to
indicate that they want comments on their poem. However, since the
group is devoted to comments, most posts will receive a reply of some
kind even without the C&C designation.

3. HOW SHOULD I POST MY POETRY?
There are no cut-and-dried rules for posting poetry to AAPC. However,
there are a few "don'ts" that are fairly broadly agreed upon:
-- Do not post your poem as an attachment to your message. Most
internet users are aware that dangerous computer viruses can be
contained in Microsoft Word documents, and will ignore .doc
attachments. In general, it is easier on the reader to include the poem
in the body of the post; downloading and opening attachments usually
takes too much time.
-- Do not post using HTML. Some newsgroup-reading software cannot
handle HTML posts, and some automatically reject them, so not everyone
will see your post. They also are larger in size and take up more space
on the computer and more bandwidth in transmission. Most software used
to read and post newsgroups allows you to choose between posting as
plain text or HTML; choose the plain text option.
-- Do not attach pictures (binaries, gifs, jpegs, etc.) or sound files
(wavs, midis, mpegs, etc.) to your posts. Again, some news servers will
automatically reject them, so not everyone will see your post.
-- Do not type your poem or message in all capital letters. Using all
caps is universally considered "shouting" in newsgroups and chat rooms.

4. HOW MANY POEMS SHOULD I POST AT A TIME?
While there is no limit to the number of poems you can post at a
sitting, people are most likely to read and respond to your poem if you
post no more than two or three at a time. And as mentioned above, since
there are many poems posted each day, a shorter work is more likely to
receive comments.

5. WHAT KIND OF HEADER SHOULD I USE?
Use the title of the poem, if it has one. If you can't decide on a
title, try a header like: "Need a Title..." to let the reader know you'd
appreciate comments on that subject. If it is your first poem-post, it
is fine to use the header "First Poem" or "First Post". Do not use
headers designed strictly to get attention, and it is preferable not to
use headers that have nothing to do with your poem.

6. DO I HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE FOR MY POEM?
Not necessarily - see #5.

7. DO I HAVE TO WRITE A CERTAIN KIND OF POETRY?
AAPC has poets who use all forms and styles of poetry. The group
includes but is not limited to free verse, tanka, haiku, sonnet,
sestina.... Feel free to use the poetic form you are most comfortable
with, or to post experiments in forms. There are several poets who are
quite knowledgeable and can help you with the rules of certain poetic
forms.

8. WHAT IF I DON'T GET ANY COMMENTS?
There could be several reasons for the lack of comments. Most likely it
is because the group is following the old rule: "If you can't say
nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." The readers might not have
understood your poem or liked it. Sometimes posts are ignored because
of too much bad spelling, grammar or punctuation, which can distract the
reader from the content of the poem and make it frustrating to get
through.
Check your post again; look for typos, correct any errors that you find,
and repost it in a few days with the note that it has been revised.
It is an (until now) unspoken rule, though, that it is best to read the
group for a few days, contribute some comments of your own, then post
your poem once people have noticed you and gotten to know you. Many
readers are more comfortable commenting when they've seen you around for
awhile and know that you are interested in what they have to say.
Also, consider the length of your post. Since there are many poems
posted every day, a shorter work is more likely to receive comments.

9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.

10. WHEN AND HOW SHOULD I COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS?
All posts are open to comments. Feel free to point out what
specifically you liked about the poem: what lines, images, words did you
find particularly interesting or captivating? At the same time, you can
also point out any changes you feel might enhance the poem. If you feel
a word in a certain place is awkward, feel free to comment on it and
suggest a suitable replacement word if you can. It isn't necessary to
give a detailed commentary on each poem, though; in general, the poet
will appreciate knowing you read the poem, so a few words to indicate
you read and enjoyed it are always nice.

11. IS IT OK TO EMAIL MY COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THE POET?
This is usually a matter of personal preference. If you have become
familiar with the poet through other posts to the newsgroup, it is
generally acceptable. If you do not know the person, they may ignore
your email, so it is preferable to post to the group.

12. CAN I REWRITE SOMEONE'S POEM FOR THEM?
If you feel comfortable doing so, the poet will usually appreciate the
effort involved. Rewriting sections or giving comments on specific
lines are welcome as well.

Mack A. Damia wrote:

>
> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> But they, while their companions slept,
> Were toiling upward in the night."

Hello again, Mack, interesting quote, can you post a link to the rest of the poem?

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 6:14:52 PM UTC, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >
> > "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > But they, while their companions slept,
> > Were toiling upward in the night."
> Hi Mack.
>
> Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
>
> AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
>
> Welcome to AAPC – the “in place” for poets and poetry fans to hang out in the 21st century.
>
> You may have only recently discovered this group, but it has been around for a while, and therefore has a decades long history of archived posts that are accessible via the search function.
>
> Start there. Learn from our history in order to not repeat our mistakes.
>
> Then, before you post, please think about being interesting. We lose more visitors here due to lack of interest than any other single cause.
>
> AAPC is an unmoderated group, so pretty much anything goes.
>
> But while we don’t have any official set of rules per se, here are some guidelines for getting along with your fellow AAPC members:
>
> 1) Treat other members with some semblance of civility. Like generates like. If you treat others with a little respect, they’ll probably return the favor.
>
> 2) Post On-Topic. The topic here is Poetry, so post an original poem or comment on someone else’s poetry. If you want to discuss folk music, “Star Trek,” comic books or post videos of the “talent” at your local karaoke bar, you’re in the wrong group.
>
> 3) Don’t over post. Limiting one’s posts to 10 per day is greatly appreciated. Making 25 posts per day can be damned annoying; so unless you’re the most interesting and knowledgeable writer on the planet, save it for your personal blog.
>
> 4) Don’t hijack other people’s threads. If a thread’s topic is “Walt Whitman,” you should only make a comment pertaining to Walt Whitman. If you wish to discuss a poem you’ve written that was inspired by Mr. Whitman, start your own thread.
>
> 5) Flame wars happen – especially in unmoderated groups like this one. However, there are certain lines that no one should ever cross. Don’t attack your opponent’s family members (unless he/she introduces them into the discussion). And remember that what happens on AAPC stays at AAPC. Don’t threaten to contact your opponent’s spouse, employer, etc.
>
> 6) Don’t repeat or bump posts. If you post an original poem and no one comments on it… tough cookies. Lack of response means that no one found it interesting enough to warrant one. If you must repost it, at least have the decency to wait a year or seven. While you’re waiting you can write something new and try posting it instead. Similarly, if you must bump, please limit yourself to one bump per poem or post.
> *Seasonal poems, however, can be bumped/reposted each year.
>
> 7) Don’t respond to a post unless you have something of value to contribute to the thread. One word replies, and generic responses such as "I agree" and "yep" and "You nailed it" and "having another read" should be avoided. Comments mean comments, not clichés.
>
> 8) Don’t post and run. If you post a famous poem, make an original comment on it. We all have, or are capable of subscribing to, Poem a Day. We don’t need to read (or reread) every single poem that you do. If you like a poem, but can’t think of anything to say about it, don’t post it.
>
> 9) Don’t feed the trolls.
>
> FAQs:
>
> 1. WHAT IS AAPC?
> Alt.arts.poetry.comments is a Usenet group of poets who share their work
> for comments or critiques. Some poets use the group as a sounding board
> before submitting their poem(s) to literary magazines. Most are looking
> for advice or help in fine-tuning their writing, developing better
> images, improving their use of language, and making sure their writing
> is clear and enjoyable to the reader.
>
> 2. WHAT DOES C&C MEAN?
> Generally, Comments & Critiques (or Criticism). Some writers put this
> in the header of their post (i.e. "Lazy Day Poem - C&C Please") to
> indicate that they want comments on their poem. However, since the
> group is devoted to comments, most posts will receive a reply of some
> kind even without the C&C designation.
>
> 3. HOW SHOULD I POST MY POETRY?
> There are no cut-and-dried rules for posting poetry to AAPC. However,
> there are a few "don'ts" that are fairly broadly agreed upon:
> -- Do not post your poem as an attachment to your message. Most
> internet users are aware that dangerous computer viruses can be
> contained in Microsoft Word documents, and will ignore .doc
> attachments. In general, it is easier on the reader to include the poem
> in the body of the post; downloading and opening attachments usually
> takes too much time.
> -- Do not post using HTML. Some newsgroup-reading software cannot
> handle HTML posts, and some automatically reject them, so not everyone
> will see your post. They also are larger in size and take up more space
> on the computer and more bandwidth in transmission. Most software used
> to read and post newsgroups allows you to choose between posting as
> plain text or HTML; choose the plain text option.
> -- Do not attach pictures (binaries, gifs, jpegs, etc.) or sound files
> (wavs, midis, mpegs, etc.) to your posts. Again, some news servers will
> automatically reject them, so not everyone will see your post.
> -- Do not type your poem or message in all capital letters. Using all
> caps is universally considered "shouting" in newsgroups and chat rooms.
>
> 4. HOW MANY POEMS SHOULD I POST AT A TIME?
> While there is no limit to the number of poems you can post at a
> sitting, people are most likely to read and respond to your poem if you
> post no more than two or three at a time. And as mentioned above, since
> there are many poems posted each day, a shorter work is more likely to
> receive comments.
>
> 5. WHAT KIND OF HEADER SHOULD I USE?
> Use the title of the poem, if it has one. If you can't decide on a
> title, try a header like: "Need a Title..." to let the reader know you'd
> appreciate comments on that subject. If it is your first poem-post, it
> is fine to use the header "First Poem" or "First Post". Do not use
> headers designed strictly to get attention, and it is preferable not to
> use headers that have nothing to do with your poem.
>
> 6. DO I HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE FOR MY POEM?
> Not necessarily - see #5.
>
> 7. DO I HAVE TO WRITE A CERTAIN KIND OF POETRY?
> AAPC has poets who use all forms and styles of poetry. The group
> includes but is not limited to free verse, tanka, haiku, sonnet,
> sestina.... Feel free to use the poetic form you are most comfortable
> with, or to post experiments in forms. There are several poets who are
> quite knowledgeable and can help you with the rules of certain poetic
> forms.
>
> 8. WHAT IF I DON'T GET ANY COMMENTS?
> There could be several reasons for the lack of comments. Most likely it
> is because the group is following the old rule: "If you can't say
> nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." The readers might not have
> understood your poem or liked it. Sometimes posts are ignored because
> of too much bad spelling, grammar or punctuation, which can distract the
> reader from the content of the poem and make it frustrating to get
> through.
> Check your post again; look for typos, correct any errors that you find,
> and repost it in a few days with the note that it has been revised.
> It is an (until now) unspoken rule, though, that it is best to read the
> group for a few days, contribute some comments of your own, then post
> your poem once people have noticed you and gotten to know you. Many
> readers are more comfortable commenting when they've seen you around for
> awhile and know that you are interested in what they have to say.
> Also, consider the length of your post. Since there are many poems
> posted every day, a shorter work is more likely to receive comments.
>
> 9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
> Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
> to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
> and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
> your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
>
> 10. WHEN AND HOW SHOULD I COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS?
> All posts are open to comments. Feel free to point out what
> specifically you liked about the poem: what lines, images, words did you
> find particularly interesting or captivating? At the same time, you can
> also point out any changes you feel might enhance the poem. If you feel
> a word in a certain place is awkward, feel free to comment on it and
> suggest a suitable replacement word if you can. It isn't necessary to
> give a detailed commentary on each poem, though; in general, the poet
> will appreciate knowing you read the poem, so a few words to indicate
> you read and enjoyed it are always nice.
>
> 11. IS IT OK TO EMAIL MY COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THE POET?
> This is usually a matter of personal preference. If you have become
> familiar with the poet through other posts to the newsgroup, it is
> generally acceptable. If you do not know the person, they may ignore
> your email, so it is preferable to post to the group.
>
> 12. CAN I REWRITE SOMEONE'S POEM FOR THEM?
> If you feel comfortable doing so, the poet will usually appreciate the
> effort involved. Rewriting sections or giving comments on specific
> lines are welcome as well.
>
> 13. DO YOU HAVE IRC CHATS OR OTHER SCHEDULED GATHERINGS?
> Not as of this writing (February 1999). There is a semi-official AAPC
> chat room but it has never been used for a formal AAPC chat. There has
> also been some banter on having a picnic in the summer of 1999, but no
> volunteer hosts as of yet.
>
> 14. ARE THERE ANY AAPC-RELATED WEB SITES?
> Many of the poets have their own sites, and most list them in their
> signature files or post notices of updates to the newsgroup.
>
> 15. ARE THERE ANY PUBLISHED / FAMOUS / INFAMOUS POETS IN THE GROUP?
> Depends on who you ask! The vast majority of the poets have had some of
> their work published. Some are published widely in anthologies and
> well-respected poetry journals. No one has made a million from their
> poetry, but we have our suspicions on who will be famous someday.
>
> 16. DO POETRY EDITORS READ THE NEWSGROUP?
> Some participants are editors of poetry journals, both on-line and
> print. Quite possibly there are other editors who "lurk" (read but
> don't post).
>
> 17. MIGHT I BE OFFERED A BOOK CONTRACT BY POSTING MY POETRY HERE?
> Not likely. If you are, be very suspicious of it.
>
> 18. WHAT IS CONSIDERED "OFF-TOPIC"?
> Poets by their nature enjoy tangents. You'll see a lot of threads
> beginning with a poem and going off in a sometimes bizarre, completely
> unrelated direction.
> By and large, keep your original posts (not part of an existing thread)
> limited to your own poetry, or questions about poetry.
>
> 19. DO I HAVE TO USE MY REAL NAME?
> Internet handles are okay, many regulars use them. To build
> familiarity, stick to the same one, or use your real name.

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>
> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> But they, while their companions slept,
> Were toiling upward in the night."

Quite an excellent poem...!

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 3:32:09 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> >
> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>
> > "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > But they, while their companions slept,
> > Were toiling upward in the night."
> Hello again, Mack, interesting quote, can you post a link to the rest of the poem?

Here it is, Doc:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:14:52 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >
> > "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > But they, while their companions slept,
> > Were toiling upward in the night."
> Hi Mack.
>
> Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
>
> AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
>
> Welcome to AAPC – the “in place” for poets and poetry fans to hang out in the 21st century.
>
> You may have only recently discovered this group, but it has been around for a while, and therefore has a decades long history of archived posts that are accessible via the search function.
>
> Start there. Learn from our history in order to not repeat our mistakes.
>
> Then, before you post, please think about being interesting. We lose more visitors here due to lack of interest than any other single cause.
>
> AAPC is an unmoderated group, so pretty much anything goes.
>
> But while we don’t have any official set of rules per se, here are some guidelines for getting along with your fellow AAPC members:
>
> 1) Treat other members with some semblance of civility. Like generates like. If you treat others with a little respect, they’ll probably return the favor.
>
> 2) Post On-Topic. The topic here is Poetry, so post an original poem or comment on someone else’s poetry. If you want to discuss folk music, “Star Trek,” comic books or post videos of the “talent” at your local karaoke bar, you’re in the wrong group.
>
> 3) Don’t over post. Limiting one’s posts to 10 per day is greatly appreciated. Making 25 posts per day can be damned annoying; so unless you’re the most interesting and knowledgeable writer on the planet, save it for your personal blog.
>
> 4) Don’t hijack other people’s threads. If a thread’s topic is “Walt Whitman,” you should only make a comment pertaining to Walt Whitman. If you wish to discuss a poem you’ve written that was inspired by Mr. Whitman, start your own thread.
>
> 5) Flame wars happen – especially in unmoderated groups like this one. However, there are certain lines that no one should ever cross. Don’t attack your opponent’s family members (unless he/she introduces them into the discussion). And remember that what happens on AAPC stays at AAPC. Don’t threaten to contact your opponent’s spouse, employer, etc.
>
> 6) Don’t repeat or bump posts. If you post an original poem and no one comments on it… tough cookies. Lack of response means that no one found it interesting enough to warrant one. If you must repost it, at least have the decency to wait a year or seven. While you’re waiting you can write something new and try posting it instead. Similarly, if you must bump, please limit yourself to one bump per poem or post.
> *Seasonal poems, however, can be bumped/reposted each year.
>
> 7) Don’t respond to a post unless you have something of value to contribute to the thread. One word replies, and generic responses such as "I agree" and "yep" and "You nailed it" and "having another read" should be avoided. Comments mean comments, not clichés.
>
> 8) Don’t post and run. If you post a famous poem, make an original comment on it. We all have, or are capable of subscribing to, Poem a Day. We don’t need to read (or reread) every single poem that you do. If you like a poem, but can’t think of anything to say about it, don’t post it.
>
> 9) Don’t feed the trolls.
>
> FAQs:
>
> 1. WHAT IS AAPC?
> Alt.arts.poetry.comments is a Usenet group of poets who share their work
> for comments or critiques. Some poets use the group as a sounding board
> before submitting their poem(s) to literary magazines. Most are looking
> for advice or help in fine-tuning their writing, developing better
> images, improving their use of language, and making sure their writing
> is clear and enjoyable to the reader.
>
> 2. WHAT DOES C&C MEAN?
> Generally, Comments & Critiques (or Criticism). Some writers put this
> in the header of their post (i.e. "Lazy Day Poem - C&C Please") to
> indicate that they want comments on their poem. However, since the
> group is devoted to comments, most posts will receive a reply of some
> kind even without the C&C designation.
>
> 3. HOW SHOULD I POST MY POETRY?
> There are no cut-and-dried rules for posting poetry to AAPC. However,
> there are a few "don'ts" that are fairly broadly agreed upon:
> -- Do not post your poem as an attachment to your message. Most
> internet users are aware that dangerous computer viruses can be
> contained in Microsoft Word documents, and will ignore .doc
> attachments. In general, it is easier on the reader to include the poem
> in the body of the post; downloading and opening attachments usually
> takes too much time.
> -- Do not post using HTML. Some newsgroup-reading software cannot
> handle HTML posts, and some automatically reject them, so not everyone
> will see your post. They also are larger in size and take up more space
> on the computer and more bandwidth in transmission. Most software used
> to read and post newsgroups allows you to choose between posting as
> plain text or HTML; choose the plain text option.
> -- Do not attach pictures (binaries, gifs, jpegs, etc.) or sound files
> (wavs, midis, mpegs, etc.) to your posts. Again, some news servers will
> automatically reject them, so not everyone will see your post.
> -- Do not type your poem or message in all capital letters. Using all
> caps is universally considered "shouting" in newsgroups and chat rooms.
>
> 4. HOW MANY POEMS SHOULD I POST AT A TIME?
> While there is no limit to the number of poems you can post at a
> sitting, people are most likely to read and respond to your poem if you
> post no more than two or three at a time. And as mentioned above, since
> there are many poems posted each day, a shorter work is more likely to
> receive comments.
>
> 5. WHAT KIND OF HEADER SHOULD I USE?
> Use the title of the poem, if it has one. If you can't decide on a
> title, try a header like: "Need a Title..." to let the reader know you'd
> appreciate comments on that subject. If it is your first poem-post, it
> is fine to use the header "First Poem" or "First Post". Do not use
> headers designed strictly to get attention, and it is preferable not to
> use headers that have nothing to do with your poem.
>
> 6. DO I HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE FOR MY POEM?
> Not necessarily - see #5.
>
> 7. DO I HAVE TO WRITE A CERTAIN KIND OF POETRY?
> AAPC has poets who use all forms and styles of poetry. The group
> includes but is not limited to free verse, tanka, haiku, sonnet,
> sestina.... Feel free to use the poetic form you are most comfortable
> with, or to post experiments in forms. There are several poets who are
> quite knowledgeable and can help you with the rules of certain poetic
> forms.
>
> 8. WHAT IF I DON'T GET ANY COMMENTS?
> There could be several reasons for the lack of comments. Most likely it
> is because the group is following the old rule: "If you can't say
> nothin' nice, don't say nothin' at all." The readers might not have
> understood your poem or liked it. Sometimes posts are ignored because
> of too much bad spelling, grammar or punctuation, which can distract the
> reader from the content of the poem and make it frustrating to get
> through.
> Check your post again; look for typos, correct any errors that you find,
> and repost it in a few days with the note that it has been revised.
> It is an (until now) unspoken rule, though, that it is best to read the
> group for a few days, contribute some comments of your own, then post
> your poem once people have noticed you and gotten to know you. Many
> readers are more comfortable commenting when they've seen you around for
> awhile and know that you are interested in what they have to say.
> Also, consider the length of your post. Since there are many poems
> posted every day, a shorter work is more likely to receive comments.
>
> 9. SHOULD I RESPOND TO THE COMMENTS I RECEIVE?
> Definitely! Even if you don't agree with the comment, it is a courtesy
> to make a brief response to show you appreciated the time taken to read
> and reply to your poem. If you repeatedly do not respond to comments on
> your work, you may find that readers stop commenting altogether.
>
> 10. WHEN AND HOW SHOULD I COMMENT ON OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS?
> All posts are open to comments. Feel free to point out what
> specifically you liked about the poem: what lines, images, words did you
> find particularly interesting or captivating? At the same time, you can
> also point out any changes you feel might enhance the poem. If you feel
> a word in a certain place is awkward, feel free to comment on it and
> suggest a suitable replacement word if you can. It isn't necessary to
> give a detailed commentary on each poem, though; in general, the poet
> will appreciate knowing you read the poem, so a few words to indicate
> you read and enjoyed it are always nice.
>
> 11. IS IT OK TO EMAIL MY COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THE POET?
> This is usually a matter of personal preference. If you have become
> familiar with the poet through other posts to the newsgroup, it is
> generally acceptable. If you do not know the person, they may ignore
> your email, so it is preferable to post to the group.
>
> 12. CAN I REWRITE SOMEONE'S POEM FOR THEM?
> If you feel comfortable doing so, the poet will usually appreciate the
> effort involved. Rewriting sections or giving comments on specific
> lines are welcome as well.
>
> 13. DO YOU HAVE IRC CHATS OR OTHER SCHEDULED GATHERINGS?
> Not as of this writing (February 1999). There is a semi-official AAPC
> chat room but it has never been used for a formal AAPC chat. There has
> also been some banter on having a picnic in the summer of 1999, but no
> volunteer hosts as of yet.
>
> 14. ARE THERE ANY AAPC-RELATED WEB SITES?
> Many of the poets have their own sites, and most list them in their
> signature files or post notices of updates to the newsgroup.
>
> 15. ARE THERE ANY PUBLISHED / FAMOUS / INFAMOUS POETS IN THE GROUP?
> Depends on who you ask! The vast majority of the poets have had some of
> their work published. Some are published widely in anthologies and
> well-respected poetry journals. No one has made a million from their
> poetry, but we have our suspicions on who will be famous someday.
>
> 16. DO POETRY EDITORS READ THE NEWSGROUP?
> Some participants are editors of poetry journals, both on-line and
> print. Quite possibly there are other editors who "lurk" (read but
> don't post).
>
> 17. MIGHT I BE OFFERED A BOOK CONTRACT BY POSTING MY POETRY HERE?
> Not likely. If you are, be very suspicious of it.
>
> 18. WHAT IS CONSIDERED "OFF-TOPIC"?
> Poets by their nature enjoy tangents. You'll see a lot of threads
> beginning with a poem and going off in a sometimes bizarre, completely
> unrelated direction.
> By and large, keep your original posts (not part of an existing thread)
> limited to your own poetry, or questions about poetry.
>
> 19. DO I HAVE TO USE MY REAL NAME?
> Internet handles are okay, many regulars use them. To build
> familiarity, stick to the same one, or use your real name.

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 3:34:45 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 3:32:09 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >
> > > "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > But they, while their companions slept,
> > > Were toiling upward in the night."
> > Hello again, Mack, interesting quote, can you post a link to the rest of the poem?
> Here it is, Doc:
>
> https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine

Thanks, good find, Zod.

:)

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>
> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> But they, while their companions slept,
> Were toiling upward in the night."

Yer still a nut.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:14:51 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmaleficapendragon@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>
>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> But they, while their companions slept,
>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>
>Hi Mack.
>
>Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
>
>AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS

Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
trouble makers.

I see a poem or a verse that might interest some, and I post it. You
can take it whatever way you want to. Use you imagination.

This verse happens to be the essence of the poem. Easy enough to
Google and find the rest. The verse is one of my favorites. I taught
at St. Augustine's College in Nassau, Bahamas.

Love and Peace!~

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:38:27 -0800 (PST), Ash Wurthing
<ashwurthing@gmail.com> wrote:

>Greetings Sir,
>Do not take offense by Pendragon's challenge, he challenged me also the first time I posted a classic poem without any commentary. This is alt.arts.poetry.commentary, not alt.arts.poetry, after all. I'm sure that you understand the focused topic hierarchy of Usenet. And my apologies for not remembering what branch you served in, but if you were Army, you would be able to answer the challenge with dignity.

I have made my feelings known in my previous post.

Is Pendragon the Grand Pooh-Bah?

>"I have seen the weak forsake humanity.
>I have heard the traitors praise our enemy.*
>I've seen challenged men become even bolder,
>I've seen the Duty, Honor, Sacrifice of the Soldier."
>--'Old Soldier's Prayer' https://www.ausa.org/old-soldiers-prayer
>
>* how sadly true that was, when Americans supported Putin rather than Ukraine
>how they looked the other way when Trump blew off NATO so to go off and be buddy with buddy with Putin

I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.

It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.

"Recessional"
BY RUDYARD KIPLING
1897

God of our fathers, known of old,
Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
Dominion over palm and pine—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

The tumult and the shouting dies;
The Captains and the Kings depart:
Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
An humble and a contrite heart.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

Far-called, our navies melt away;
On dune and headland sinks the fire:
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
Or lesser breeds without the Law—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard,
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
For frantic boast and foolish word—
Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:48:08 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:14:51 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >>
> >> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> >> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> >> But they, while their companions slept,
> >> Were toiling upward in the night."
> >
> >Hi Mack.
> >
> >Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
> >
> >AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
> Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
> to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
> is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
> trouble makers.

Unfortunately, you are choosing to make yourself one of the troublemakers.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:57:37 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:38:27 -0800 (PST), Ash Wurthing
> <ashwu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Greetings Sir,
> >Do not take offense by Pendragon's challenge, he challenged me also the first time I posted a classic poem without any commentary. This is alt.arts..poetry.commentary, not alt.arts.poetry, after all. I'm sure that you understand the focused topic hierarchy of Usenet. And my apologies for not remembering what branch you served in, but if you were Army, you would be able to answer the challenge with dignity.
> I have made my feelings known in my previous post.
>
> Is Pendragon the Grand Pooh-Bah?

I'm the Sheriff and Lord High Executioner.

> >"I have seen the weak forsake humanity.
> >I have heard the traitors praise our enemy.*
> >I've seen challenged men become even bolder,
> >I've seen the Duty, Honor, Sacrifice of the Soldier."
> >--'Old Soldier's Prayer' https://www.ausa.org/old-soldiers-prayer
> >
> >* how sadly true that was, when Americans supported Putin rather than Ukraine
> >how they looked the other way when Trump blew off NATO so to go off and be buddy with buddy with Putin
> I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
> Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.
>
> It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.
>
> "Recessional"
> BY RUDYARD KIPLING
> 1897
>
> God of our fathers, known of old,
> Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
> Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
> Dominion over palm and pine—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> The tumult and the shouting dies;
> The Captains and the Kings depart:
> Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
> An humble and a contrite heart.
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> Far-called, our navies melt away;
> On dune and headland sinks the fire:
> Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
> Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
> Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
> Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
> Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
> Or lesser breeds without the Law—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> For heathen heart that puts her trust
> In reeking tube and iron shard,
> All valiant dust that builds on dust,
> And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
> For frantic boast and foolish word—
> Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!

Mack A. Damia wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:38:27 -0800 (PST), Ash Wurthing
> <ashwurthing@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>Greetings Sir,
>>Do not take offense by Pendragon's challenge, he challenged me also the first time I posted a classic poem without any commentary. This is alt.arts.poetry.commentary, not alt.arts.poetry, after all. I'm sure that you understand the focused topic hierarchy of Usenet. And my apologies for not remembering what branch you served in, but if you were Army, you would be able to answer the challenge with dignity.

> I have made my feelings known in my previous post.

> Is Pendragon the Grand Pooh-Bah?

Pendragon is the self-proclaimed moderator of a public, unmoderated Usenet newsgroup.

In other words, he's a delusional control freak on an ego trip.

>>"I have seen the weak forsake humanity.
>>I have heard the traitors praise our enemy.*
>>I've seen challenged men become even bolder,
>>I've seen the Duty, Honor, Sacrifice of the Soldier."
>>--'Old Soldier's Prayer' https://www.ausa.org/old-soldiers-prayer
>>
>>* how sadly true that was, when Americans supported Putin rather than Ukraine
>>how they looked the other way when Trump blew off NATO so to go off and be buddy with buddy with Putin

> I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
> Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.

> It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.

> "Recessional"
> BY RUDYARD KIPLING
> 1897

> God of our fathers, known of old,
> Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
> Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
> Dominion over palm and pine—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!

> The tumult and the shouting dies;
> The Captains and the Kings depart:
> Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
> An humble and a contrite heart.
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!

> Far-called, our navies melt away;
> On dune and headland sinks the fire:
> Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
> Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
> Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!

> If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
> Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
> Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
> Or lesser breeds without the Law—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!

> For heathen heart that puts her trust
> In reeking tube and iron shard,
> All valiant dust that builds on dust,
> And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
> For frantic boast and foolish word—
> Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!

...

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:57:37 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:38:27 -0800 (PST), Ash Wurthing
>> <ashwu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >Greetings Sir,
>> >Do not take offense by Pendragon's challenge, he challenged me also the first time I posted a classic poem without any commentary. This is alt.arts..poetry.commentary, not alt.arts.poetry, after all. I'm sure that you understand the focused topic hierarchy of Usenet. And my apologies for not remembering what branch you served in, but if you were Army, you would be able to answer the challenge with dignity.
>> I have made my feelings known in my previous post.
>>
>> Is Pendragon the Grand Pooh-Bah?

> I'm the Sheriff and Lord High Executioner.

Says Michael Pendragon, so delusional the little monkey thinks he's a better poet than T.S. Eliot.

HTH and HAND.

>> >"I have seen the weak forsake humanity.
>> >I have heard the traitors praise our enemy.*
>> >I've seen challenged men become even bolder,
>> >I've seen the Duty, Honor, Sacrifice of the Soldier."
>> >--'Old Soldier's Prayer' https://www.ausa.org/old-soldiers-prayer
>> >
>> >* how sadly true that was, when Americans supported Putin rather than Ukraine
>> >how they looked the other way when Trump blew off NATO so to go off and be buddy with buddy with Putin
>> I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
>> Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.
>>
>> It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.
>>
>> "Recessional"
>> BY RUDYARD KIPLING
>> 1897
>>
>> God of our fathers, known of old,
>> Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
>> Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
>> Dominion over palm and pine—
>> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
>> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>>
>> The tumult and the shouting dies;
>> The Captains and the Kings depart:
>> Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
>> An humble and a contrite heart.
>> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
>> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>>
>> Far-called, our navies melt away;
>> On dune and headland sinks the fire:
>> Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
>> Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
>> Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
>> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>>
>> If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
>> Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
>> Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
>> Or lesser breeds without the Law—
>> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
>> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>>
>> For heathen heart that puts her trust
>> In reeking tube and iron shard,
>> All valiant dust that builds on dust,
>> And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
>> For frantic boast and foolish word—
>> Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!

....

On 2022-11-12 11:57 a.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:38:27 -0800 (PST), Ash Wurthing
> <ashwurthing@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Greetings Sir,
>> Do not take offense by Pendragon's challenge, he challenged me also the first time I posted a classic poem without any commentary. This is alt.arts.poetry.commentary, not alt.arts.poetry, after all. I'm sure that you understand the focused topic hierarchy of Usenet. And my apologies for not remembering what branch you served in, but if you were Army, you would be able to answer the challenge with dignity.
>
> I have made my feelings known in my previous post.
>
> Is Pendragon the Grand Pooh-Bah?

No, Michael Pendragon is the Monkey King.

I won't hijack your thread to explain that, but if you decide to stick
around, you'll quickly be brought up to speed.

>
>> "I have seen the weak forsake humanity.
>> I have heard the traitors praise our enemy.*
>> I've seen challenged men become even bolder,
>> I've seen the Duty, Honor, Sacrifice of the Soldier."
>> --'Old Soldier's Prayer' https://www.ausa.org/old-soldiers-prayer
>>
>> * how sadly true that was, when Americans supported Putin rather than Ukraine
>> how they looked the other way when Trump blew off NATO so to go off and be buddy with buddy with Putin
>
> I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
> Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.
>
> It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.
>
> "Recessional"
> BY RUDYARD KIPLING
> 1897
>
> God of our fathers, known of old,
> Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
> Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
> Dominion over palm and pine—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> The tumult and the shouting dies;
> The Captains and the Kings depart:
> Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
> An humble and a contrite heart.
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> Far-called, our navies melt away;
> On dune and headland sinks the fire:
> Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
> Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
> Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
> Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
> Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
> Or lesser breeds without the Law—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> For heathen heart that puts her trust
> In reeking tube and iron shard,
> All valiant dust that builds on dust,
> And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
> For frantic boast and foolish word—
> Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!

On 2022-11-12 11:57 a.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:

<snip>

> I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
> Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.
>
> It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.
>
> "Recessional"
> BY RUDYARD KIPLING
> 1897
>
> God of our fathers, known of old,
> Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
> Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
> Dominion over palm and pine—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> The tumult and the shouting dies;
> The Captains and the Kings depart:
> Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
> An humble and a contrite heart.
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> Far-called, our navies melt away;
> On dune and headland sinks the fire:
> Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
> Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
> Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
> Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
> Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
> Or lesser breeds without the Law—
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget—lest we forget!
>
> For heathen heart that puts her trust
> In reeking tube and iron shard,
> All valiant dust that builds on dust,
> And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
> For frantic boast and foolish word—
> Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!

An excellent poem by an excellent author. The only problem is that,
being buried in the thread, it could be missed. So I'll suggest that you
top-post poems like this in the future, so that they don't get missed.

I'd also welcome you to post your favorite poems to rec.arts.poems.

Those are both suggestions, not "GLs".

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 12:33:14 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-12 11:57 a.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > I posted this yesterday in another place in remembrance of
> > Armistice/Veteran's Day . One of my favorite poems, too.
> >
> > It was composed for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee, in 1897.
> >
> > "Recessional"
> > BY RUDYARD KIPLING
> > 1897
> >
> > God of our fathers, known of old,
> > Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
> > Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
> > Dominion over palm and pine—
> > Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> > Lest we forget—lest we forget!
> >
> > The tumult and the shouting dies;
> > The Captains and the Kings depart:
> > Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
> > An humble and a contrite heart.
> > Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> > Lest we forget—lest we forget!
> >
> > Far-called, our navies melt away;
> > On dune and headland sinks the fire:
> > Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
> > Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
> > Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
> > Lest we forget—lest we forget!
> >
> > If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
> > Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe,
> > Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
> > Or lesser breeds without the Law—
> > Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> > Lest we forget—lest we forget!
> >
> > For heathen heart that puts her trust
> > In reeking tube and iron shard,
> > All valiant dust that builds on dust,
> > And guarding, calls not Thee to guard,
> > For frantic boast and foolish word—
> > Thy mercy on Thy People, Lord!
> An excellent poem by an excellent author. The only problem is that,
> being buried in the thread, it could be missed. So I'll suggest that you
> top-post poems like this in the future, so that they don't get missed.
>
> I'd also welcome you to post your favorite poems to rec.arts.poems.
>
> Those are both suggestions, not "GLs".

Good afternoon, well put, George.

🙂

On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>
> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>
> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> But they, while their companions slept,
> Were toiling upward in the night."
>

Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.

I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.

That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 12:39:04 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >
> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >
> > "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > But they, while their companions slept,
> > Were toiling upward in the night."
> >
> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>
> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>
> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.

By definition, a Guideline is an instructional form of suggestion:

Per Merriam-Webster:

guideline
noun
guide·​line ˈgīd-ˌlīn
: a line by which one is guided: such as
a : a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing a course
b : an indication or outline of policy or conduct

guide
2 of 2
verb
guided; guiding

transitive verb
1 : to act as a guide to : direct in a way or course
He guided us around the city.
2 a
: to direct, supervise, or influence usually to a particular end
You'll need a lawyer to guide you through the legal system.
b : to superintend the training or instruction of
A respected educator guided his studies.

Just because PJR attempted to use the GLs as rules, doesn't mean that they are.

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
<georgedance04@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>
>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>
>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> But they, while their companions slept,
>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>>
>
>Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
>
>I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
>
>That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.

It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
(since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
poem.

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 08:59:39 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmaleficapendragon@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:48:08 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:14:51 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
>> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
>> >> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> >> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>> >>
>> >> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> >> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> >> But they, while their companions slept,
>> >> Were toiling upward in the night."
>> >
>> >Hi Mack.
>> >
>> >Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
>> >
>> >AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
>> Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
>> to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
>> is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
>> trouble makers.
>
>Unfortunately, you are choosing to make yourself one of the troublemakers.

Then you will miss what I have to offer, won't you?

I mentioned to another group that I post what makes me feel good. I
avoid flaming, and that is to say you can take it or leave it.

Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire poem, but that verse
has always jumped out for me.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:48:08 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:14:51 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >>
> >> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> >> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> >> But they, while their companions slept,
> >> Were toiling upward in the night."
> >
> >Hi Mack.
> >
> >Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
> >
> >AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
> Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
> to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
> is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
> trouble makers.
>
> I see a poem or a verse that might interest some, and I post it. You
> can take it whatever way you want to. Use you imagination.
>
> This verse happens to be the essence of the poem. Easy enough to
> Google and find the rest. The verse is one of my favorites. I taught
> at St. Augustine's College in Nassau, Bahamas.
>
> Love and Peace!~

Now why didn’t you just say that in the first place?
The personal touch makes the poem more attractive.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:59:40 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 11:48:08 AM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:14:51 -0800 (PST), Michael Pendragon
> > <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 1:09:19 PM UTC-5, Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > >> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > >> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > >>
> > >> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > >> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > >> But they, while their companions slept,
> > >> Were toiling upward in the night."
> > >
> > >Hi Mack.
> > >
> > >Please see 8) in our Guidelines, below:
> > >
> > >AAPC OFFICIAL GUIDELINES & FAQS
> > Please feel free to kill file me, but your group is too undisciplined
> > to have rules. What percentage of the group's posts are flames? This
> > is why I haven't been here too much. You need to crack down on
> > trouble makers.
> Unfortunately, you are choosing to make yourself one of the troublemakers..

No, you’re simply choosing to see him as one. Change your mind. I dare you.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
>>
>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
>>
>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
>> But they, while their companions slept,
>> Were toiling upward in the night."
>>

> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.

> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.

> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.

Agreed.