Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:02:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:17:14 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
>>> > > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
>> > > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
>
>> > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
>> > > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
>> > > > > > 3 he drooled words
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
>> > > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
>> > > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
>> > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
>> > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
>> > > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
>> > > > > > 10 was shrimp.
>> > > > > > [not in WD]
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
>> > > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
>> > > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
>> > > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
>> > > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
>> > > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
>> > > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
>> > > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
>> > > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
>> > > > > > 20 and wandered away,
>> > > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
>> > > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
>> > > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
>> > > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ER:
>> > > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
>> > > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Credits:
>> > > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
>> > > > > > WD:
>> > > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ***
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Again, well put, George.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > HTH and HAND.
>> > > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
>> > > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
>> > Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....
>> It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.

> Yes, when proven wrong Voodoo Boy often quietly STFU...

> Ha ha.

We've seen it so many times before, yes.

And so it goes.

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:02:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:17:14 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:22:08 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:43:48 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > > > [not in WD]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Credits:
> > > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, well put, George.
> > > > >
> > > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> > > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
> > Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....
> It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.

Not as stupid as you and you maniac sock monkey coming onto every thread and just coming across as hecklers and individuals just looking to obsess over typos and fighting-- you should really stop and look at what you're doing, especially when you try to fool people that you're "real" poets, just here for the poetry and that you skip and ignore most trolling...

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:53:47 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:51:16 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 3:44:49 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:02:36 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > > Since my poems "Shambles" and "Karma Bombs" are on topic again, and this is a George Dance thread, here were George's thoughts on the "Shambles" poem.
> > > > > > > > Interesting reading, in my opinion:
> >
> > > > > > > > George J. Dance wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Long Island poet Jim Senetto never ceases to amaze. On July 15, 2021 - mere hours after learning what a cento was - he had produced his first cento, entitled "Shambles," and had posted a copy to alt.arts.poetry.comments (usenet edition). Unfortunately, that first draft seems to have been withdrawn for further work, but Internet Archive has managed to save a copy for posterity:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://web.archive.org/web/20210721020302/https://groups..google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/ZeLu697_LfA/m/94BScwCKAAAJ?hl=en
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also unfortunately, in that draft Cento Senetto did not name his sources, leaving it to those of us interested in centos to track them down. I have managed to find a candidate: a poem by Will Dockery, also entitled "Shambles," which Dockery published on his own "Shadowville Mythos" blog on July 5, 2021:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > https://shadowville-mythos.blogspot.com/2021/07/shambles.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The similarities between the poems extend to more than the titles. I hope the following line-by-line comparison of Senetto's cento (identified as "ER") and Dockery's poem ("WD") shows the extent of the 'borrowing':
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 1 Yes, that Richard Pryor looking guy
> > > > > > > > > 2 was somewhat interesting, except that he was so drunk
> > > > > > > > > 3 he drooled words
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 1 Yes, the "Richard Pryor" looking guy was somewhat interesting,
> > > > > > > > > 2 except that he was so drunk he was drooling.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 4 thinking I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 3 He either thought I looked like Mark Twain or Gene Wilder,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 5 as I watched it all go by on Broadway around midnight.
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 4 sitting on the bench on Broadway at Midnight, typing.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 6 He mentioned Kentucky, was bourbon on the mind?
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 5 He seemed to think we were from the same home area,
> > > > > > > > > 6 somewhere around Kentucky,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 7 North oats, was sour mash on the mind? Carolina,
> > > > > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 7 Maybe Carolina,
> > > > > > > > > 8 where his family worked on crab boats,
> > > > > > > > > 9 or maybe North Oates Avenue.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 9 then Tom Hanks was on my mind, though his dream
> > > > > > > > > 10 was shrimp.
> > > > > > > > > [not in WD]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 11 Politics reared its ugly head, drunk or sober it’s all the talk,
> > > > > > > > > 11 the out of the side of his mouth political jabs and so on,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 12 though quiet I was, being entertained, while playing the straight white guy,
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 12 were pretty entertaining,
> > > > > > > > > 13 as I just sat there and typed,
> > > > > > > > > 14 playing the white straight man type,
> > > > > > > > > 15 like in Stir Crazy and Silver Streak,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 13 thinking, possibly, my Einstein hairdo might just have been the candle
> > > > > > > > > 14 to this drunken moth.
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 16 wild Einstein afro hair flapping in the breeze.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 15 His stumble into me, brought it to a close,
> > > > > > > > > 16 my coffee wetting the same sidewalk he wandered off on…
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 17 That went okay for a few minutes
> > > > > > > > > 18 until Pryor knocked over my coffee,
> > > > > > > > > 19 seemed to be embarrassed about that,
> > > > > > > > > 20 and wandered away,
> > > > > > > > > 21 on up the sidewalk.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 17 and from the other end a hooker chick approached,
> > > > > > > > > 18 she too, in shambles offering a down and dirty for five bucks
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 22 Then when a crack hooker chick
> > > > > > > > > 23 in real shambles came along,
> > > > > > > > > 24 offered to blow me right there for five bucks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ER:
> > > > > > > > > 19 but saved, I was, a chilly breeze whispered, go home now.
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > 25 I decided that along with the chilly breeze on my back,
> > > > > > > > > 26 perhaps it was time to pack it up for the night.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 27 I wanted dark, I got dark.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Credits:
> > > > > > > > > ER: a cento by Edward Rochester Esq.
> > > > > > > > > WD:
> > > > > > > > > -Will Dockery (11-15-2016)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, except for Jim's LL 9-10, every line appears to be taken from Dockery's "Shambles".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jim's poem contains some interesting rewrites of lines, but nothing that substantially changes the poem; it's still a narration relating the same story about the same incident and events. In my judgement, then, this first draft fails as a cento because it's not transformative enough. Evidently Cento Senetto felt the same, which could explain the draft's sudden disappearance.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Again, well put, George.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > HTH and HAND.
> > > > > > > Indeed, I daresay QUOTE of the DAY worthy....!
> > > > > > It's definitely the hot topic of the day.
> > > > > Yep although they seem to have shut up about it today....
> > > > It probably dawned on Pendragon how stupid he was looking.
> > > Yes, when proven wrong Voodoo Boy often quietly STFU...
> > >
> > > Ha ha.
> > My previous
> Shut up, Voodoo Boy.
>
> Ha ha.

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
>>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
>>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
>>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
>>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
>>>
>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
>>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
>>
>> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
>>
>> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
>>
>> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
>>
>> However, that is precisely what he did