On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Are you living in the Stone Age
> > or does living in
> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>
> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> story:
>
> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>
> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>
> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> other fair use purposes:
>
> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>
> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> Rich Man’s War:
>
> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> Chattahoochee Valley
> By David Williams
> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> Reviewed by Thandeka
> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> [...]
> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> war, this area became a center for war-related
> industries because it was deep in the southern
> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> connections to every major city in the South; and was
> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> The southern planter
> class created the white race for purposes of class
> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> was no distinction in law or custom between European
> and African servants, all of whom were known as
> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> oppressors together.
> [...]
> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> perpetuated."
> [...]
> Georgia’s very decision to secede
> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> slaves, opposed secession.
> [...]
> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> men and their slaves.
> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> continued.
> [...]
> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>
> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> use.
>
> And so it goes.
> —-
>
> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> Shadowville, Peter.

Quite interesting....

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 11:27:57 AM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> > news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Are you living in the Stone Age
> > > or does living in
> > > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
> >
> > Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> > and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> > story:
> >
> > http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> >
> > Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> >
> > From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> > other fair use purposes:
> >
> > From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> > Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> > View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> > Original Format
> > Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> >
> > An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> > Rich Man’s War:
> >
> > Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> > Chattahoochee Valley
> > By David Williams
> > Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> > Reviewed by Thandeka
> > The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> > Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> > Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> > [...]
> > The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> > to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> > Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> > industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> > surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> > quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> > war, this area became a center for war-related
> > industries because it was deep in the southern
> > heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> > connections to every major city in the South; and was
> > at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> > The southern planter
> > class created the white race for purposes of class
> > exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> > people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> > was no distinction in law or custom between European
> > and African servants, all of whom were known as
> > "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> > loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> > oppressors together.
> > [...]
> > But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> > defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> > claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> > members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> > "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> > by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> > "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> > superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> > by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> > as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> > population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> > and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> > divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> > South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> > fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> > solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> > hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> > "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> > of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> > arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> > is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> > and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> > perpetuated."
> > [...]
> > Georgia’s very decision to secede
> > from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> > Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> > of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> > of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> > better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> > to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> > determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> > white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> > slaves, opposed secession.
> > [...]
> > To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> > cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> > poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> > by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> > South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> > starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> > men and their slaves.
> > And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> > continued.
> > [...]
> > The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> > against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> > exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> > then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> > deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> > they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> > whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> > among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> >
> > Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> > posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> > use.
> >
> > And so it goes.
> > —-
> >
> > Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> > Shadowville, Peter.
>
> Quite interesting....

This should also be the original (broken) thread for the C.A. Smith poem.

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > or does living in
>> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>>
>> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> story:
>>
>> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>>
>> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>>
>> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> other fair use purposes:
>>
>> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>>
>> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> Rich Man’s War:
>>
>> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> Chattahoochee Valley
>> By David Williams
>> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> [...]
>> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> The southern planter
>> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> oppressors together.
>> [...]
>> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> perpetuated."
>> [...]
>> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> slaves, opposed secession.
>> [...]
>> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> men and their slaves.
>> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> continued.
>> [...]
>> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>>
>> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> use.
>>
>> And so it goes.
>> —-
>>
>> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> Shadowville, Peter.

> Quite interesting....

Agreed.

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > or does living in
>> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>>
>> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> story:
>>
>> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>>
>> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>>
>> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> other fair use purposes:
>>
>> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>>
>> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> Rich Man’s War:
>>
>> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> Chattahoochee Valley
>> By David Williams
>> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> [...]
>> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> The southern planter
>> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> oppressors together.
>> [...]
>> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> perpetuated."
>> [...]
>> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> slaves, opposed secession.
>> [...]
>> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> men and their slaves.
>> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> continued.
>> [...]
>> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>>
>> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> use.
>>
>> And so it goes.
>> —-
>>
>> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> Shadowville, Peter.

> Quite interesting....

Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:

https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith

***

On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Zod wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
> >> > or does living in
> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
> >>
> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> >> story:
> >>
> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> >>
> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> >>
> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> >> other fair use purposes:
> >>
> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> >> Original Format
> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> >>
> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> >> Rich Man’s War:
> >>
> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> >> Chattahoochee Valley
> >> By David Williams
> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> >> [...]
> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> >> The southern planter
> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> >> oppressors together.
> >> [...]
> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> >> perpetuated."
> >> [...]
> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> >> slaves, opposed secession.
> >> [...]
> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> >> men and their slaves.
> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> >> continued.
> >> [...]
> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> >>
> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> >> use.
> >>
> >> And so it goes.
> >> —-
> >>
> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> >> Shadowville, Peter.
>
> > Quite interesting....
> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
>
> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith

A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:

***
I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.

Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.

"The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
-Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"

***

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > or does living in
>> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>>
>> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> story:
>>
>> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>>
>> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>>
>> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> other fair use purposes:
>>
>> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>>
>> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> Rich Man’s War:
>>
>> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> Chattahoochee Valley
>> By David Williams
>> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> [...]
>> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> The southern planter
>> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> oppressors together.
>> [...]
>> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> perpetuated."
>> [...]
>> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> slaves, opposed secession.
>> [...]
>> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> men and their slaves.
>> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> continued.
>> [...]
>> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>>
>> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> use.
>>
>> And so it goes.
>> —-
>>
>> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> Shadowville, Peter.

> Quite interesting....

Good morning, yes, it sheds new light in some ways.

Will Dockery wrote:

> On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Zod wrote:
>>
>> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >> >
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> >> > or does living in
>> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>> >>
>> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> >> story:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>> >>
>> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>> >>
>> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> >> other fair use purposes:
>> >>
>> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> >> Original Format
>> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>> >>
>> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> >> Rich Man’s War:
>> >>
>> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> >> Chattahoochee Valley
>> >> By David Williams
>> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> >> [...]
>> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> >> The southern planter
>> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> >> oppressors together.
>> >> [...]
>> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> >> perpetuated."
>> >> [...]
>> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> >> slaves, opposed secession.
>> >> [...]
>> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> >> men and their slaves.
>> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> >> continued.
>> >> [...]
>> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>> >>
>> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> >> use.
>> >>
>> >> And so it goes.
>> >> —-
>> >>
>> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> >> Shadowville, Peter.
>>
>> > Quite interesting....
>> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
>>
>> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith

Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.

> A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:

> ***
> I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.

> Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.

> "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
> -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Zod wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> >> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
> >> >> > or does living in
> >> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> >> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> >> >> story:
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> >> >>
> >> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> >> >>
> >> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> >> >> other fair use purposes:
> >> >>
> >> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> >> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> >> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> >> >> Original Format
> >> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> >> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> >> >>
> >> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> >> >> Rich Man’s War:
> >> >>
> >> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> >> >> Chattahoochee Valley
> >> >> By David Williams
> >> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> >> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
> >> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> >> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> >> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> >> >> [...]
> >> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> >> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> >> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> >> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> >> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> >> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> >> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
> >> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
> >> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> >> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
> >> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> >> >> The southern planter
> >> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
> >> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> >> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> >> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
> >> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
> >> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> >> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> >> >> oppressors together.
> >> >> [...]
> >> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> >> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> >> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> >> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> >> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> >> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> >> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> >> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> >> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> >> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> >> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> >> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> >> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> >> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> >> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> >> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> >> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> >> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> >> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> >> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> >> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> >> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> >> >> perpetuated."
> >> >> [...]
> >> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
> >> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> >> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> >> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> >> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> >> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> >> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> >> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> >> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> >> >> slaves, opposed secession.
> >> >> [...]
> >> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> >> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> >> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> >> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> >> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> >> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> >> >> men and their slaves.
> >> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> >> >> continued.
> >> >> [...]
> >> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> >> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> >> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> >> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> >> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> >> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> >> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> >> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> >> >>
> >> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> >> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> >> >> use.
> >> >>
> >> >> And so it goes.
> >> >> —-
> >> >>
> >> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> >> >> Shadowville, Peter.
> >>
> >> > Quite interesting....
> >> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
> >>
> >> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith
> Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.
> > A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:
>
> > ***
> > I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.
>
> > Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.
>
> > "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
> > -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"
>
>
> ***

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Zod wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> >> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> >> >> > or does living in
>> >> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> >> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> >> >> story:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> >> >> other fair use purposes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> >> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> >> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> >> >> Original Format
>> >> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> >> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>> >> >>
>> >> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> >> >> Rich Man’s War:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> >> >> Chattahoochee Valley
>> >> >> By David Williams
>> >> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> >> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> >> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> >> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> >> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> >> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> >> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> >> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> >> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> >> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> >> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> >> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> >> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> >> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> >> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> >> >> The southern planter
>> >> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> >> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> >> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> >> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> >> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> >> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> >> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> >> >> oppressors together.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> >> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> >> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> >> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> >> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> >> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> >> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> >> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> >> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> >> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> >> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> >> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> >> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> >> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> >> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> >> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> >> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> >> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> >> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> >> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> >> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> >> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> >> >> perpetuated."
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> >> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> >> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> >> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> >> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> >> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> >> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> >> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> >> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> >> >> slaves, opposed secession.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> >> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> >> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> >> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> >> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> >> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> >> >> men and their slaves.
>> >> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> >> >> continued.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> >> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> >> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> >> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> >> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> >> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> >> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> >> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> >> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> >> >> use.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And so it goes.
>> >> >> —-
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> >> >> Shadowville, Peter.
>> >>
>> >> > Quite interesting....
>> >> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
>> >>
>> >> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith
>> Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.
>> > A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:
>>
>> > ***
>> > I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.
>>
>> > Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.
>>
>> > "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
>> > -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"
>>
>>
>> ***

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 9:25:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Zod wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Will Dockery wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> Zod wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
> >> >> >> > or does living in
> >> >> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> >> >> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> >> >> >> story:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> >> >> >> other fair use purposes:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> >> >> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> >> >> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> >> >> >> Original Format
> >> >> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> >> >> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> >> >> >> Rich Man’s War:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> >> >> >> Chattahoochee Valley
> >> >> >> By David Williams
> >> >> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> >> >> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
> >> >> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> >> >> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> >> >> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> >> >> >> [...]
> >> >> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> >> >> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> >> >> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> >> >> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> >> >> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> >> >> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> >> >> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
> >> >> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
> >> >> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> >> >> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
> >> >> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> >> >> >> The southern planter
> >> >> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
> >> >> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> >> >> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> >> >> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
> >> >> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
> >> >> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> >> >> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> >> >> >> oppressors together.
> >> >> >> [...]
> >> >> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> >> >> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> >> >> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> >> >> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> >> >> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> >> >> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> >> >> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> >> >> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> >> >> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> >> >> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> >> >> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> >> >> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> >> >> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> >> >> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> >> >> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> >> >> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> >> >> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> >> >> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> >> >> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> >> >> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> >> >> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> >> >> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> >> >> >> perpetuated."
> >> >> >> [...]
> >> >> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
> >> >> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> >> >> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> >> >> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> >> >> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> >> >> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> >> >> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> >> >> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> >> >> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> >> >> >> slaves, opposed secession.
> >> >> >> [...]
> >> >> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> >> >> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> >> >> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> >> >> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> >> >> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> >> >> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> >> >> >> men and their slaves.
> >> >> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> >> >> >> continued.
> >> >> >> [...]
> >> >> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> >> >> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> >> >> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> >> >> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> >> >> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> >> >> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> >> >> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> >> >> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> >> >> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> >> >> >> use.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> And so it goes.
> >> >> >> —-
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> >> >> >> Shadowville, Peter.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Quite interesting....
> >> >> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
> >> >>
> >> >> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith
> >> Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.
> >> > A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:
> >>
> >> > ***
> >> > I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.
> >>
> >> > Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.
> >>
> >> > "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
> >> > -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"
> >>
> >>
> >> ***
>
> > Yes........ odd but correct.......
> A good question, where did the dozen or so opening posts go, and for what reason?

On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 3:05:59 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 9:25:14 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Zod wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> > >> >> >> other fair use purposes:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> > >> >> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> > >> >> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> > >> >> >> Original Format
> > >> >> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > >> >> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> > >> >> >> Rich Man’s War:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> > >> >> >> Chattahoochee Valley
> > >> >> >> By David Williams
> > >> >> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> > >> >> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
> > >> >> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> > >> >> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> > >> >> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> > >> >> >> [...]
> > >> >> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> > >> >> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> > >> >> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> > >> >> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> > >> >> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> > >> >> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> > >> >> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
> > >> >> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
> > >> >> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> > >> >> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
> > >> >> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> > >> >> >> The southern planter
> > >> >> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
> > >> >> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> > >> >> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> > >> >> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
> > >> >> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
> > >> >> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> > >> >> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> > >> >> >> oppressors together.
> > >> >> >> [...]
> > >> >> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> > >> >> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> > >> >> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> > >> >> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> > >> >> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> > >> >> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> > >> >> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> > >> >> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> > >> >> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> > >> >> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> > >> >> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> > >> >> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> > >> >> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> > >> >> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> > >> >> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> > >> >> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> > >> >> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> > >> >> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> > >> >> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> > >> >> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> > >> >> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> > >> >> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> > >> >> >> perpetuated."
> > >> >> >> [...]
> > >> >> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
> > >> >> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> > >> >> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> > >> >> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> > >> >> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> > >> >> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> > >> >> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> > >> >> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> > >> >> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> > >> >> >> slaves, opposed secession.
> > >> >> >> [...]
> > >> >> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> > >> >> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> > >> >> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> > >> >> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> > >> >> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> > >> >> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> > >> >> >> men and their slaves.
> > >> >> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> > >> >> >> continued.
> > >> >> >> [...]
> > >> >> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> > >> >> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> > >> >> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> > >> >> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> > >> >> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> > >> >> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> > >> >> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> > >> >> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> > >> >> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> > >> >> >> use.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> And so it goes.
> > >> >> >> —-
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> > >> >> >> Shadowville, Peter.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Quite interesting....
> > >> >> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith
> > >> Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.
> > >> > A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:
> > >>
> > >> > ***
> > >> > I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.
> > >>
> > >> > Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.
> > >>
> > >> > "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
> > >> > -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ***
> >
> > > Yes........ odd but correct.......
> > A good question, where did the dozen or so opening posts go, and for what reason?
> Ah, but Ray Bremser deserves his day in the sun...!

On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:04:11 PM UTC-6, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 11:27:57 AM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> > > news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Are you living in the Stone Age
> > > > or does living in
> > > > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
> > >
> > > Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> > > and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> > > story:
> > >
> > > http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> > >
> > > Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> > >
> > > From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> > > other fair use purposes:
> > >
> > > From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> > > Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> > > View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> > > Original Format
> > > Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > > Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> > >
> > > An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> > > Rich Man’s War:
> > >
> > > Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> > > Chattahoochee Valley
> > > By David Williams
> > > Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> > > Reviewed by Thandeka
> > > The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> > > Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> > > Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> > > [...]
> > > The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> > > to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> > > Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> > > industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> > > surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> > > quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> > > war, this area became a center for war-related
> > > industries because it was deep in the southern
> > > heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> > > connections to every major city in the South; and was
> > > at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> > > The southern planter
> > > class created the white race for purposes of class
> > > exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> > > people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> > > was no distinction in law or custom between European
> > > and African servants, all of whom were known as
> > > "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> > > loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> > > oppressors together.
> > > [...]
> > > But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> > > defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> > > claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> > > members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> > > "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> > > by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> > > "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> > > superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> > > by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> > > as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> > > population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> > > and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> > > divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> > > South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> > > fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> > > solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> > > hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> > > "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> > > of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> > > arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> > > is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> > > and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> > > perpetuated."
> > > [...]
> > > Georgia’s very decision to secede
> > > from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> > > Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> > > of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> > > of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> > > better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> > > to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> > > determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> > > white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> > > slaves, opposed secession.
> > > [...]
> > > To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> > > cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> > > poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> > > by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> > > South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> > > starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> > > men and their slaves.
> > > And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> > > continued.
> > > [...]
> > > The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> > > against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> > > exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> > > then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> > > deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> > > they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> > > whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> > > among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> > >
> > > Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> > > posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> > > use.
> > >
> > > And so it goes.
> > > —-
> > >
> > > Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> > > Shadowville, Peter.
> >
> > Quite interesting....
> This should also be the original (broken) thread for the C.A. Smith poem.

I have likely seen it a million times but did not pay attention

mk5000

Popped that seal (popped it)
Close that deal (close it)
We in the field (yeah)
Spread them bills--BBO
Migos

marika wrote:

> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:04:11 PM UTC-6, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 11:27:57 AM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> > > news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> > > >
>> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > > > or does living in
>> > > > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>> > >
>> > > Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> > > and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> > > story:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>> > >
>> > > Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>> > >
>> > > From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> > > other fair use purposes:
>> > >
>> > > From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> > > Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> > > View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> > > Original Format
>> > > Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> > > Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>> > >
>> > > An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> > > Rich Man’s War:
>> > >
>> > > Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> > > Chattahoochee Valley
>> > > By David Williams
>> > > Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> > > Reviewed by Thandeka
>> > > The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> > > Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> > > Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> > > [...]
>> > > The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> > > to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> > > Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> > > industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> > > surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> > > quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> > > war, this area became a center for war-related
>> > > industries because it was deep in the southern
>> > > heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> > > connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> > > at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> > > The southern planter
>> > > class created the white race for purposes of class
>> > > exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> > > people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> > > was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> > > and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> > > "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> > > loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> > > oppressors together.
>> > > [...]
>> > > But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> > > defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> > > claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> > > members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> > > "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> > > by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> > > "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> > > superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> > > by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> > > as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> > > population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> > > and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> > > divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> > > South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> > > fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> > > solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> > > hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> > > "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> > > of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> > > arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> > > is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> > > and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> > > perpetuated."
>> > > [...]
>> > > Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> > > from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> > > Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> > > of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> > > of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> > > better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> > > to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> > > determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> > > white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> > > slaves, opposed secession.
>> > > [...]
>> > > To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> > > cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> > > poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> > > by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> > > South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> > > starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> > > men and their slaves.
>> > > And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> > > continued.
>> > > [...]
>> > > The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> > > against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> > > exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> > > then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> > > deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> > > they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> > > whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> > > among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>> > >
>> > > Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> > > posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> > > use.
>> > >
>> > > And so it goes.
>> > > —-
>> > >
>> > > Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> > > Shadowville, Peter.
>> >
>> > Quite interesting....
>> This should also be the original (broken) thread for the C.A. Smith poem.

> I have likely seen it a million times but did not pay attention

Possibly.

🙂

> mk5000

> Popped that seal (popped it)
> Close that deal (close it)
> We in the field (yeah)
> Spread them bills--BBO
> Migos

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Zod wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> >> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> >> >> > or does living in
>> >> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> >> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> >> >> story:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> >> >> other fair use purposes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> >> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> >> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> >> >> Original Format
>> >> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> >> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>> >> >>
>> >> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> >> >> Rich Man’s War:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> >> >> Chattahoochee Valley
>> >> >> By David Williams
>> >> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> >> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> >> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> >> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> >> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> >> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> >> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> >> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> >> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> >> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> >> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> >> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> >> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> >> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> >> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> >> >> The southern planter
>> >> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> >> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> >> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> >> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> >> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> >> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> >> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> >> >> oppressors together.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> >> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> >> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> >> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> >> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> >> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> >> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> >> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> >> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> >> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> >> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> >> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> >> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> >> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> >> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> >> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> >> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> >> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> >> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> >> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> >> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> >> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> >> >> perpetuated."
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> >> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> >> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> >> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> >> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> >> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> >> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> >> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> >> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> >> >> slaves, opposed secession.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> >> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> >> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> >> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> >> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> >> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> >> >> men and their slaves.
>> >> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> >> >> continued.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> >> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> >> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> >> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> >> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> >> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> >> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> >> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> >> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> >> >> use.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And so it goes.
>> >> >> —-
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> >> >> Shadowville, Peter.
>> >>
>> >> > Quite interesting....
>> >> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
>> >>
>> >> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith
>> Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.
>> > A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:
>>
>> > ***
>> > I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.
>>
>> > Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.
>>
>> > "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
>> > -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"
>>
>>
>> ***

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > or does living in
>> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>>
>> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> story:
>>
>> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>>
>> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>>
>> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> other fair use purposes:
>>
>> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>>
>> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> Rich Man’s War:
>>
>> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> Chattahoochee Valley
>> By David Williams
>> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> [...]
>> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> The southern planter
>> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> oppressors together.
>> [...]
>> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> perpetuated."
>> [...]
>> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> slaves, opposed secession.
>> [...]
>> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> men and their slaves.
>> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> continued.
>> [...]
>> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>>
>> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> use.
>>
>> And so it goes.
>> —-
>>
>> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> Shadowville, Peter.

> Quite interesting....

Checking Narkive, since this is apparently what became of the Clark Ashton Smith thread.

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > or does living in
>> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>>
>> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> story:
>>
>> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>>
>> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>>
>> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> other fair use purposes:
>>
>> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>>
>> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> Rich Man’s War:
>>
>> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> Chattahoochee Valley
>> By David Williams
>> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> [...]
>> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> The southern planter
>> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> oppressors together.
>> [...]
>> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> perpetuated."
>> [...]
>> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> slaves, opposed secession.
>> [...]
>> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> men and their slaves.
>> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> continued.
>> [...]
>> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>>
>> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> use.
>>
>> And so it goes.
>> —-
>>
>> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> Shadowville, Peter.

> Quite interesting....

Good evening, agreed.

On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-5, marika wrote:
> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:04:11 PM UTC-6, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 11:27:57 AM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
> > > > news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you living in the Stone Age
> > > > > or does living in
> > > > > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
> > > >
> > > > Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
> > > > and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
> > > > story:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
> > > >
> > > > Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
> > > >
> > > > From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
> > > > other fair use purposes:
> > > >
> > > > From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
> > > > Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
> > > > View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
> > > > Original Format
> > > > Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
> > > > Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
> > > >
> > > > An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
> > > > Rich Man’s War:
> > > >
> > > > Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> > > > Chattahoochee Valley
> > > > By David Williams
> > > > Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
> > > > Reviewed by Thandeka
> > > > The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
> > > > Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> > > > Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
> > > > [...]
> > > > The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> > > > to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> > > > Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> > > > industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> > > > surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> > > > quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> > > > war, this area became a center for war-related
> > > > industries because it was deep in the southern
> > > > heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> > > > connections to every major city in the South; and was
> > > > at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> > > > The southern planter
> > > > class created the white race for purposes of class
> > > > exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> > > > people’s race was defined by their class, and there
> > > > was no distinction in law or custom between European
> > > > and African servants, all of whom were known as
> > > > "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> > > > loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> > > > oppressors together.
> > > > [...]
> > > > But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
> > > > defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> > > > claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> > > > members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> > > > "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> > > > by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> > > > "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> > > > superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> > > > by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> > > > as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> > > > population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
> > > > and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> > > > divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> > > > South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
> > > > fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> > > > solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> > > > hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
> > > > "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> > > > of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> > > > arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
> > > > is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> > > > and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> > > > perpetuated."
> > > > [...]
> > > > Georgia’s very decision to secede
> > > > from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> > > > Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> > > > of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> > > > of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> > > > better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
> > > > to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> > > > determination. After all, more than half the South’s
> > > > white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> > > > slaves, opposed secession.
> > > > [...]
> > > > To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> > > > cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> > > > poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
> > > > by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> > > > South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> > > > starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> > > > men and their slaves.
> > > > And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> > > > continued.
> > > > [...]
> > > > The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> > > > against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> > > > exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> > > > then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> > > > deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> > > > they held onto as their own-their self-image as
> > > > whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> > > > among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
> > > >
> > > > Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
> > > > posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
> > > > use.
> > > >
> > > > And so it goes.
> > > > —-
> > > >
> > > > Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
> > > > Shadowville, Peter.
> > >
> > > Quite interesting....
> > This should also be the original (broken) thread for the C.A. Smith poem.
> I have likely seen it a million times but did not pay attention

Same here perhaps...

>
> mk5000
>
> Popped that seal (popped it)
> Close that deal (close it)
> We in the field (yeah)
> Spread them bills--BBO
> Migos

....

Zod wrote:

> On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 4:19:45 PM UTC-5, marika wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 1:04:11 PM UTC-6, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 11:27:57 AM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 3:34:55 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> > > > news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> > > > > or does living in
>> > > > > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>> > > >
>> > > > Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> > > > and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> > > > story:
>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>> > > >
>> > > > Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>> > > >
>> > > > From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> > > > other fair use purposes:
>> > > >
>> > > > From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> > > > Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> > > > View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> > > > Original Format
>> > > > Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> > > > Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>> > > >
>> > > > An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> > > > Rich Man’s War:
>> > > >
>> > > > Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> > > > Chattahoochee Valley
>> > > > By David Williams
>> > > > Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> > > > Reviewed by Thandeka
>> > > > The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> > > > Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> > > > Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> > > > to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> > > > Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> > > > industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> > > > surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> > > > quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> > > > war, this area became a center for war-related
>> > > > industries because it was deep in the southern
>> > > > heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> > > > connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> > > > at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> > > > The southern planter
>> > > > class created the white race for purposes of class
>> > > > exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> > > > people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> > > > was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> > > > and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> > > > "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> > > > loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> > > > oppressors together.
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> > > > defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> > > > claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> > > > members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> > > > "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> > > > by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> > > > "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> > > > superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> > > > by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> > > > as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> > > > population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> > > > and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> > > > divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> > > > South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> > > > fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> > > > solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> > > > hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> > > > "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> > > > of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> > > > arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> > > > is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> > > > and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> > > > perpetuated."
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> > > > from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> > > > Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> > > > of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> > > > of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> > > > better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> > > > to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> > > > determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> > > > white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> > > > slaves, opposed secession.
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> > > > cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> > > > poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> > > > by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> > > > South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> > > > starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> > > > men and their slaves.
>> > > > And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> > > > continued.
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> > > > against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> > > > exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> > > > then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> > > > deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> > > > they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> > > > whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> > > > among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>> > > >
>> > > > Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> > > > posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> > > > use.
>> > > >
>> > > > And so it goes.
>> > > > —-
>> > > >
>> > > > Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> > > > Shadowville, Peter.
>> > >
>> > > Quite interesting....
>> > This should also be the original (broken) thread for the C.A. Smith poem.
>> I have likely seen it a million times but did not pay attention

> Same here perhaps...

>>
>> mk5000
>>
>> Popped that seal (popped it)
>> Close that deal (close it)
>> We in the field (yeah)
>> Spread them bills--BBO
>> Migos

> ....

Good afternoon, well put.

Zod wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 17, 2024 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>
>> > On Friday, January 13, 2024 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Zod wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> >> "Peter J Ross" wrote in message
>> >> >> news:slrnmfhdbe.im...@pjr.no-ip.org...
>
>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> > PROBLEMS? Please try viewing this with Netscape Navigator.
>> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Are you living in the Stone Age
>> >> >> > or does living in
>> >> >> > Racistville GA merely *seem* like living in the Stone Age?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, it isn't any secret that this is one of the racist areas in the world,
>> >> >> and in fact was founded on racism, since you asked, here's part of the
>> >> >> story:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.youpoetry.info/re-crashing-the-black-helicopters
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Re: "Crashing the Black Helicopters"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From the archives, reposted for information, discussion, historical and
>> >> >> other fair use purposes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From: Will Dockery (opb…@yahoo.com)
>> >> >> Subject: ‘Gods & Generals’: Rich Man’s War
>> >> >> View: Complete Thread (3 articles)
>> >> >> Original Format
>> >> >> Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan, alt.arts.poetry.comments
>> >> >> Date: 2004-11-30 08:42:34 PST
>> >> >>
>> >> >> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored by Hollywood:
>> >> >> Rich Man’s War:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
>> >> >> Chattahoochee Valley
>> >> >> By David Williams
>> >> >> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>> >> >> Reviewed by Thandeka
>> >> >> The importance of David Williams’s new book, Rich
>> >> >> Man’s War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
>> >> >> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> The socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
>> >> >> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
>> >> >> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
>> >> >> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
>> >> >> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
>> >> >> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
>> >> >> war, this area became a center for war-related
>> >> >> industries because it was deep in the southern
>> >> >> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
>> >> >> connections to every major city in the South; and was
>> >> >> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
>> >> >> The southern planter
>> >> >> class created the white race for purposes of class
>> >> >> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
>> >> >> people’s race was defined by their class, and there
>> >> >> was no distinction in law or custom between European
>> >> >> and African servants, all of whom were known as
>> >> >> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
>> >> >> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
>> >> >> oppressors together.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> But under the planters’ new race laws, race was
>> >> >> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
>> >> >> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
>> >> >> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
>> >> >> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
>> >> >> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
>> >> >> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
>> >> >> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
>> >> >> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
>> >> >> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
>> >> >> population who owned 58 percent of the region’s slaves
>> >> >> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
>> >> >> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
>> >> >> South’s pervasive class exploitation depended on
>> >> >> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
>> >> >> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
>> >> >> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>> >> >> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
>> >> >> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
>> >> >> arbiters of all non-slaveholding whites, whose freedom
>> >> >> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
>> >> >> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
>> >> >> perpetuated."
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> Georgia’s very decision to secede
>> >> >> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
>> >> >> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
>> >> >> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
>> >> >> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
>> >> >> better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates’ plea
>> >> >> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
>> >> >> determination. After all, more than half the South’s
>> >> >> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
>> >> >> slaves, opposed secession.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
>> >> >> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
>> >> >> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Not surprisingly,
>> >> >> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
>> >> >> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
>> >> >> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
>> >> >> men and their slaves.
>> >> >> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
>> >> >> continued.
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> The bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
>> >> >> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
>> >> >> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
>> >> >> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
>> >> >> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
>> >> >> they held onto as their own-their self-image as
>> >> >> whites-actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
>> >> >> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Again, in advance of the whiners and hypocrites, the above excerpt was
>> >> >> posted for information, discussion and histirical purposes... thus, fair
>> >> >> use.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And so it goes.
>> >> >> —-
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Happy to shed some light for you about the way things really went down in
>> >> >> Shadowville, Peter.
>> >>
>> >> > Quite interesting....
>> >> Also interesting that this seems to be what the original Clark Ashton Smith poem evolved into, while possibly losing a lot of posts along the way:
>> >>
>> >> https://alt.arts.poetry.comments.narkive.com/T95gZsT3/tpb-if-winter-remain-clark-ashton-smith
>> Interesting that /this/ is what is left of the original C.A.S. poetry thread.
>> > A lot of good material was lost when the posts were deleted:
>>
>> > ***
>> > I remember Clark Ashton Smith from my later childhood days, when I was steeped in Edgar Allan Poe, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard, Baudelaire and Rimbaud, the Cthulu Mythos, and all the lurching shambling horrors that went with it. Great stuff, and very influential on the Shadowville scene.
>>
>> > Here's a groovy quote from C.A.S.
>>
>> > "The nostalgia of things unknown, of lands forgotten or unfound, is upon me at times. Often I long for the gleam of yellow suns upon terraces of translucent azure marble, mocking the windless waters of lakes unfathomably calm; for lost, legendary palaces of serpentine, silver and ebony, whose columns are green stalactites; for the pillars of fallen temples, standing in the vast purpureal sunset of a land of lost and marvellous romance. I sigh for the dark-green depths of cedar forests, through whose fantastically woven boughs, one sees at intervals an unknown tropic ocean, like gleams of blue diamond; for isles of palm and coral, that fret an amber morning, somewhere beyond Cathay or Taprobane; for the strange and hidden cities of the desert, with burning brazen domes and slender pinnacles of gold and copper, that pierce a heaven of heated lazuli."
>> > -Clark Ashton Smith, "Nostalgia of the Unknown"
>>
>>
>> ***