Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378

I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!

As usual, the article raises more questions than it answers. For
instance, I'm particularly curious what the impact will be on the kids
that I drive to school during the school year, who are all in grades 7
to 12. Will they have to learn cursive to graduate or will they be
exempt because they missed the chance to learn it in elementary school?

It would be interesting to hand a pen and paper to my students and ask
them to put anything at all on the paper. I suppose they learned
printing and a few may even have had teachers that bothered to teach
cursive. I had one kid on my bus who used to circle the dates that he
and his brother would be riding my bus (the other dates being ones where
they went to school from their mother's place on a different route) and
he had the oddest grip on a pen I ever saw: the pen came out of his fist
between the baby finger and the ring finger! I'm guessing that's a
result of whatever education they had in printing and/or cursive.

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>

FUCK YES!
(See, I am cursing…)

> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
> didn't want to be bothered.)

After all that’s the important part

Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>
> As usual, the article raises more questions than it answers. For
> instance, I'm particularly curious what the impact will be on the kids
> that I drive to school during the school year, who are all in grades 7
> to 12. Will they have to learn cursive to graduate or will they be
> exempt because they missed the chance to learn it in elementary school?
>

Will they even be able to learn it at a later age?

> It would be interesting to hand a pen and paper to my students and ask
> them to put anything at all on the paper. I suppose they learned
> printing and a few may even have had teachers that bothered to teach
> cursive. I had one kid on my bus who used to circle the dates that he
> and his brother would be riding my bus (the other dates being ones where
> they went to school from their mother's place on a different route) and
> he had the oddest grip on a pen I ever saw: the pen came out of his fist
> between the baby finger and the ring finger! I'm guessing that's a
> result of whatever education they had in printing and/or cursive.
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>
>https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>
>I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!

I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

>On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
><no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>>Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>
>>https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>
>>I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>
>I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)

The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.

On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>
>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>
>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>
>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>
> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>
We didn't have computers when I went to college.

suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>
>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>
>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>
>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>
> We didn't have computers when I went to college.

Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 2023-07-04 5:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>
>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>
>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>
>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>
> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>
I've been meaning to ask the kids on my bus what they do about
note-taking during lectures. I'm guessing they get full notes handed out
to them and don't even have to take notes or, alternatively, are
permitted to record the lectures and then make notes at home. But maybe
their school still wants them to take notes the way I did back in the day.

Note-taking was a huge part of my education, from kindergarten through
university. I always made my notes in cursive. I toyed with the idea of
recording the teachers on cassette but quickly realized it would requite
a lot of expense to buy, store and organize the cassettes plus I'd still
have to transcribe them all, which would take hours a day, and even when
I transcribed them, they'd still be in longhand unless I took even more
time to type them on our portable (and jam-prone) portable typewriter.

If I had to do it again today, I'm not sure what I'd do. Obviously, it
would be easy to make audio or video recordings of lectures but then I'd
have to listen to them all back when it came time to study. I'd prefer
to make concise notes of the key points of what the instructor is saying
but it's often difficult to identify the key points as the lecture is
going on; I tend to get caught up in the details of the trees and miss
the bigger picture of the forest. It might be better to simply read the
text book BEFORE class, highlight/annotate the key points, and then
listen to the lecture as a recap/reinforcement of what the text says and
an opportunity to ask questions about things that weren't clear in the
text or lecture. After all, that's the single biggest advantage of a
live instructor: the chance to ask questions.

--
Rhino

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 14:24:07 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>
>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>
>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>
>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>
>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>
>We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>

Neither did we.. Well, not personal computers when I started out. We
did have a teletype connected to a mainframe (CDC Cyber 6400) a few
hundred miles away. Then I got to use a CRT with the keyboard attached
when I moved on to another school. I ended up using the computer a lot
because that is what I was studying.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 18:46:53 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>On 2023-07-04 5:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>
>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>
>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>
>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>
>I've been meaning to ask the kids on my bus what they do about
>note-taking during lectures. I'm guessing they get full notes handed out
>to them and don't even have to take notes or, alternatively, are
>permitted to record the lectures and then make notes at home. But maybe
>their school still wants them to take notes the way I did back in the day.

That reminds me of this classic scene from REAL GENIUS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB1X4o-MV6o

>Note-taking was a huge part of my education, from kindergarten through
>university. I always made my notes in cursive. I toyed with the idea of
>recording the teachers on cassette but quickly realized it would requite
>a lot of expense to buy, store and organize the cassettes plus I'd still
>have to transcribe them all, which would take hours a day, and even when
>I transcribed them, they'd still be in longhand unless I took even more
>time to type them on our portable (and jam-prone) portable typewriter.
>
>If I had to do it again today, I'm not sure what I'd do. Obviously, it
>would be easy to make audio or video recordings of lectures but then I'd
>have to listen to them all back when it came time to study. I'd prefer
>to make concise notes of the key points of what the instructor is saying
>but it's often difficult to identify the key points as the lecture is
>going on; I tend to get caught up in the details of the trees and miss
>the bigger picture of the forest. It might be better to simply read the
>text book BEFORE class, highlight/annotate the key points, and then
>listen to the lecture as a recap/reinforcement of what the text says and
>an opportunity to ask questions about things that weren't clear in the
>text or lecture. After all, that's the single biggest advantage of a
>live instructor: the chance to ask questions.

On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>
>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>
>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>
>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>
> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>
Heh, we had slide rules!

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 17:03:07 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>
>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>
>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>
>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>
>Heh, we had slide rules!

I remember learning to use one back in 9th grade.

On 2023-07-04 8:03 PM, suzeeq wrote:
> On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any
>>>>>> benefit
>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently
>>>>>> permissible for
>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a
>>>>>> whole lot
>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>
>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>
>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>
>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>
> Heh, we had slide rules!

I had a couple of slide rules myself, a cheap all-plastic one and then a
nicer wooden one. I can't even remember what became of them now. I think
I lost the cursor on the wooden one but held on to it for a while with
the intention of replacing it if I could figure out where to get just a
cursor but I haven't seen it or the plastic slide rule in many decades
now so I must have tossed it eventually.

When my brother, who is two years younger than me, was getting near the
end of high school, the first 4 function calculators were available and
he got one for the (now-ludicrous) price of $130; he was the envy of
this friends for about 20 minutes. I remember a controversy about
whether we'd be allowed to use calculators on exams with some teachers
being dead set against it but the pro-calculator faction soon won out.
As we all saw, calculators acquired more and more capabilities but got
so cheap they became a commodity that you could buy in the grocery store.

Nowadays, you can put math apps on your phone that let it calculate
pretty much anything.
--
Rhino

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 15:46:53 -0700, Rhino wrote:

> Note-taking was a huge part of my education, from kindergarten through
> university. I always made my notes in cursive.

Strange, I never did or do. Since it is more
difficult to read my own cursive, much much less
anyone else's, that means I don't like to write
or read in cursive. I certainly take notes now,
paper and pen go with me where ever I go, but
I want to be able to read my own handwriting
so that means no cursive.

What advantage do you have in cursive writing
that non-cursive writing doesn't have?

suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>
>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>
>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>
>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>
> Heh, we had slide rules!
>

We got slide rules in high school. But then that was in physics class. I
imagine the mundanes didn’t have them.

I got my first four function calculator as a high school graduation
present. It was like 80 bucks!

When I started college, we weren’t allowed to use them at all. By my senior
year we were required to use them.

We did learn to work computers in college though. Things were the size of a
Buick and basically what we learned was how to fill out punch cards.
There’s a skill that came in handy for like the next six weeks.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 17:03:07 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>>
>>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>>
>>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>>
>>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>>
>> Heh, we had slide rules!
>
> I remember learning to use one back in 9th grade.
>

A computer or a Calculator, or a slide rule?

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 15:46:53 -0700, Rhino wrote:
>
>> Note-taking was a huge part of my education, from kindergarten through
>> university. I always made my notes in cursive.
>
> Strange, I never did or do. Since it is more
> difficult to read my own cursive, much much less
> anyone else's, that means I don't like to write
> or read in cursive. I certainly take notes now,
> paper and pen go with me where ever I go, but
> I want to be able to read my own handwriting
> so that means no cursive.
>
> What advantage do you have in cursive writing
> that non-cursive writing doesn't have?

Cursive is a hell of a lot faster than printing when you’re taking notes
from a speaker.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 20:16:53 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 17:03:07 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any benefit
>>>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible for
>>>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole lot
>>>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>>>
>>>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>>>
>>> Heh, we had slide rules!
>>
>> I remember learning to use one back in 9th grade.
>>
>
>A computer or a Calculator, or a slide rule?

A slide rule. Only learned to use it in one class and then never
touched them again. Calculators weren't really a thing when I was in
high school as they were too expensive for anyone to have one. Though
not that many years later everyone had one. As for a computer there
was one guy that bought one of those new fangled IBM PCs when I had
started college. The only other people I knew with computers had a
Vic-20 (with modem which meant not having to stand in line for one of
the terminals) or a Commodore SX-64 (a wonderful little beast since it
included the floppy drive and a screen (!!!!!) in a portable form
factor.)

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Pluted Pup <plutedpup@outlook.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 15:46:53 -0700, Rhino wrote:

>>>Note-taking was a huge part of my education, from kindergarten through
>>>university. I always made my notes in cursive.

>>Strange, I never did or do. Since it is more
>>difficult to read my own cursive, much much less
>>anyone else's, that means I don't like to write
>>or read in cursive. I certainly take notes now,
>>paper and pen go with me where ever I go, but
>>I want to be able to read my own handwriting
>>so that means no cursive.

>>What advantage do you have in cursive writing
>>that non-cursive writing doesn't have?

>Cursive is a hell of a lot faster than printing when you're taking notes
>from a speaker.

Sure, if I don't care about being able to read my notes later. If I want
to write something that's readable, I have to take care and not do it
quickly.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 14:50:54 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>
>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>
>Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>
In my business school class (1981-83) I was one of the few with a
computer though several had purchased one by graduation. At that time
I was using a 50 lb dot-matrix as lasers were still too expensive and
inkjet didn't exist yet as a technology. Not sure when I got my first
laser but it was before 1987 as I did my birth announcements on one.

On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 18:46:53 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

> I'd prefer
>to make concise notes of the key points of what the instructor is saying
>but it's often difficult to identify the key points as the lecture is
>going on; I tend to get caught up in the details of the trees and miss
>the bigger picture of the forest. It might be better to simply read the
>text book BEFORE class, highlight/annotate the key points, and then
>listen to the lecture as a recap/reinforcement of what the text says and
>an opportunity to ask questions about things that weren't clear in the
>text or lecture. After all, that's the single biggest advantage of a
>live instructor: the chance to ask questions.

In Business school that's what you were daily EXPECTED to have done as
you were subject at any time to get up in class and either summarize
the business case or give or receive questions on what were said to be
the core issues of the case. That's why study groups fluorished - so
that you could get other peoples' opinions BEFORE you had to do it
"live" before the whole class.

I have never ever felt so publicly naked as when I was expected to do
the presentation and not be ready to do so.

In article <hcd9ailioh72sjjechmvpjj5jq9nqk7lr6@4ax.com>, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 17:03:07 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
> >On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> >> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
> >>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
> >>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
> >>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any
> >>>>>> benefit
> >>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
> >>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole
> >>>>>> lot
> >>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
> >>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
> >>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
> >>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
> >>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
> >>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
> >>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
> >>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
> >>>>
> >>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
> >>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
> >>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
> >>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
> >>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
> >>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
> >>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
> >>>>
> >>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
> >>
> >> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
> >>
> >Heh, we had slide rules!
>
> I remember learning to use one back in 9th grade.

I went to night school for my bachelor's starting in the early '70s.
Calculators had come along and were quickly being adopted by students.
Some of them were expensive but were worth it. I had one teacher who
refused to allow us to use calculators because not everyone had one yet
(which was true), but I think it was more like the calculators had
negated 50 or 60 percent of what he was supposed to teach us, e.g. how
to find logarithms. The teacher was a frickin' bonehead, but I needed
the three credits. Sometimes you just gotta put up with stuff.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <hcd9ailioh72sjjechmvpjj5jq9nqk7lr6@4ax.com>, shawn
> <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 17:03:07 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/4/2023 2:50 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 7/4/2023 1:53 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 13:09:23 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 18:10:25 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ontario is bringing back mandatory courses in cursive writing!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/ontario-cursive-reintroduction-1.6893378
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have to say I'm quite surprised by this. I thought the educational
>>>>>>>> establishment had long ago dismissed the idea that there was any
>>>>>>>> benefit
>>>>>>>> in teaching this. (In other words, it was hard to teach so teachers
>>>>>>>> didn't want to be bothered.) Mind you, it was apparently permissible
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> teachers to teach cursive writing since 2006 but I'm betting a whole
>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>> of them never quite found the time. Also, as the article points out,
>>>>>>>> there could be some real problems teaching cursive, especially for the
>>>>>>>> young teachers that never learned cursive themselves!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I learned cursive writing but seldom use it these days since about the
>>>>>>> only person that sees my handwriting is me - most commonly other
>>>>>>> people outside my immediate household see stuff I've keyboarded. Mind
>>>>>>> you I never got rid of my typewriter either though currently have no
>>>>>>> idea where it is - it's been the computer keyboard pretty much
>>>>>>> exclusively since my college days (hint: Apple 2 / MS-DOS 5 days)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only time I've had reason to use cursive is for signing checks and
>>>>>> those occasions have become very rare. I think in the last five years
>>>>>> I've only sent out maybe two checks. Even contracts now are all being
>>>>>> done digitally so there's no actual signing taking place.
>>>>>> As for my typewriter.. I had one back when I first started college and
>>>>>> used a few times the first couple of years, mostly for the English
>>>>>> class. Other than that it's all been done on the computer.
>>>>>>
>>>>> We didn't have computers when I went to college.
>>>>
>>>> Ditto. We barely had four function calculators.
>>>>
>>> Heh, we had slide rules!
>>
>> I remember learning to use one back in 9th grade.
>
>
> I went to night school for my bachelor's starting in the early '70s.
> Calculators had come along and were quickly being adopted by students.
> Some of them were expensive but were worth it. I had one teacher who
> refused to allow us to use calculators because not everyone had one yet
> (which was true), but I think it was more like the calculators had
> negated 50 or 60 percent of what he was supposed to teach us, e.g. how
> to find logarithms. The teacher was a frickin' bonehead, but I needed
> the three credits. Sometimes you just gotta put up with stuff.
>

And by 1980 we were getting weird specialty calendars like time code for
video producers.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Sat, 08 Jul 2023 18:57:18 -0400, A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>Some of them were expensive but were worth it. I had one teacher who
>refused to allow us to use calculators because not everyone had one yet
>(which was true), but I think it was more like the calculators had
>negated 50 or 60 percent of what he was supposed to teach us, e.g. how
>to find logarithms. The teacher was a frickin' bonehead, but I needed
>the three credits. Sometimes you just gotta put up with stuff.

So did he expect you to use tables?

And were you taught how to work out how to convert from base 10 logs
to natural logs and back? (I've forgotten the formula but could derive
it if I >REALLY< needed to and didn't have my computer or calculator
handy)