https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97

"Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as “unrealistic,”
which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
$25 million annually.

He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
One stalwart and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
incredulous by Iger’s claims the comic book company never had an impact
on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
for diluting the cinematic universe.

With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that “Pixar went out of
its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike.”

In essence, the likes of next year’s Elio and Inside Out 2 can
technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn’t an actor or a writer
can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.

There’s technically nothing wrong with it, but it feels more than a
little immoral given the circumstances, although that’s to be expected
when it’s the biggest and richest companies like Disney, Netflix, and
the rest of the major studios that are coming under the heaviest fire."

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, "Dimensional Traveler" <dtravel@sonic.net>
wrote:

>
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>
> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
> $25 million annually.
>
> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
> for diluting the cinematic universe.

> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."

Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.

> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.

How is this either sneaky or a workaround?

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, "Dimensional Traveler" <dtravel@sonic.net>
wrote:
>
>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>
>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>> $25 million annually.
>>
>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>
>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>
> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>
>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writ
>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>
> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>

And speaking of Disney, the YouTube thought we would all enjoy this:

https://youtu.be/vG9o9m0LsbI

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>On Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, "Dimensional Traveler" <dtravel@sonic.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>
>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>> $25 million annually.
>>
>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>
>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>
>Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.

It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.

>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>
>How is this either sneaky or a workaround?

It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do. I do believe
that some of the things like changing the way streaming residuals work
needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are the bad guys in
this negotiation. Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying
they want writers to start losing their homes before they begin real
negotiation.)

On 7/23/23 8:01 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, "Dimensional Traveler" <dtravel@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>>
>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>> $25 million annually.
>>>
>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>
>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>
>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>
>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writ
>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>
>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>
>
> And speaking of Disney, the YouTube thought we would all enjoy this:
>
> https://youtu.be/vG9o9m0LsbI

You know they targeted person is a girl about 2 1/2 years into puberty,
right?
You're giving away the whole show now, of you think Disney meant this
for you too.

It would explain a lot, though.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:

>>>https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97

>>>"Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>$25 million annually.

>>>He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>for diluting the cinematic universe.

>>>With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."

>>Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.

>It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.

As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
managed to do that.

>>>In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.

>>How is this either sneaky or a workaround?

>It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.

No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
work to continue.

This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.

>I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>the bad guys in this negotiation.

Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
good faith.

They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
subscribing.

>Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)

Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
over and over again.

On Jul 23, 2023 at 5:01:11 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, "Dimensional Traveler"
>> <dtravel@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>>
>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>> $25 million annually.
>>>
>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>
>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>
>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has
>> enough
> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>
>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writ
>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>
>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>
> And speaking of Disney, the YouTube thought we would all enjoy this:
>
> https://youtu.be/vG9o9m0LsbI

Well, that's a bigoted hate screed. It says women menstruate and completely
ignores the troons!

Disney should prosecute itself.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:36:51 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>
>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>
>>>>"Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>$25 million annually.
>
>>>>He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>for diluting the cinematic universe.
>
>>>>With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>
>>>Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>>stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>
>>It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>
>As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>managed to do that.

If you are an actor and can't earn enough to pay the SAG dues are you
really an actor or a wanna-be? There are a huge number of people who
want to be actors and will never make it. At some point they should
realize it and just quit calling themselves an actor. They can still
make money as background 'actors'. Though with no lines and no
interaction with the actual stars it's hard to call them an 'actor.'

>>>>In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>>recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>>can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>
>>>How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>
>>It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>
>No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>work to continue.

Of course not, while it's great for the actors/writers if they win
their strikes it doesn't nothing for the other unions. In fact it
could make it tougher for them as the studios won't want to pay out
more to the other unions if they lose the current battles.

>This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>
>>I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>the bad guys in this negotiation.
>
>Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.

Yeah, and I think everyone involved knows it. The studios just don't
want to get into any deal that forces them to give some insight into
how they are doing with their streaming products. If they were truly
doing residuals right they would also provide insight into how many
viewers each show and even each episode is having. I see that being a
bright line for the studios that they won't want to budge on.

>The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
>studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
>increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
>contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
>because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
>compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
>good faith.

Yeah, that was obvious with the way they handled Scarlett Johannson.

>They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
>are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
>should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
>subscribing.

I'm sure if they thought they could get away with it they would love
to shut down their broadcast stations and move everyone to a paying
customer.

>>Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>>start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)
>
>Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
>Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
>tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
>over and over again.

It would be great if the writers rooms actually worked to develop the
talents of the writers in developing their stories. Though from what
I've seen it seems like all the up and coming writers learn from
working in the writers room is how the process works. They really need
to either move every writer through some sort of development process
that helps them develop into skilled writers or just find and hire the
damn writers that have a clue what the viewers actually want.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>
>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>> $25 million annually.
>
>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>
>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>
>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>
>> It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>> they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>> happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>
> As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
> to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
> managed to do that.
>
>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>
>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>
>> It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>> WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>
> No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
> unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
> work to continue.
>
> This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>
>> I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>> residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>> the bad guys in this negotiation.
>
> Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
> The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
> studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
> increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
> contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
> because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
> compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
> good faith.
>
> They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
> are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
> should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
> subscribing.
>
>> Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>> start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)
>
> Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
> Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
> tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
> over and over again.
>

The CW super hero woman writer, who said that it wasn’t as important to
write good stories as it was to put in woke. Messages belongs in a much
hotter place.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> On Jul 23, 2023 at 5:01:11 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> On Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, "Dimensional Traveler"
>> <dtravel@sonic.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>>>
>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>> $25 million annually.
>>>>
>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>>
>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>>
>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has
>> enough
>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>>
>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writ
>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>>
>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>
>> And speaking of Disney, the YouTube thought we would all enjoy this:
>>
>> https://youtu.be/vG9o9m0LsbI
>
> Well, that's a bigoted hate screed. It says women menstruate and completely
ignores the troons!
>
> Disney should prosecute itself.
>

Hee hee

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 11:14:20 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>
>>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>> $25 million annually.
>>
>>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>
>>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>
>>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>
>>> It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>> they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>> happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>>
>> As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>> to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>> managed to do that.
>>
>>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>
>>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>
>>> It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>> WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>>
>> No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>> unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>> work to continue.
>>
>> This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>>
>>> I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>> residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>> the bad guys in this negotiation.
>>
>> Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
>> The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
>> studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
>> increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
>> contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
>> because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
>> compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
>> good faith.
>>
>> They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
>> are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
>> should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
>> subscribing.
>>
>>> Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>>> start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)
>>
>> Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
>> Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
>> tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
>> over and over again.
>>
>
>The CW super hero woman writer, who said that it wasn’t as important to
>write good stories as it was to put in woke. Messages belongs in a much
>hotter place.

I don't blame her. She's free to think and write what ever she wants.
I blame the studio heads that put her and kept her in place after she
showed what she was going to do. If they told her to stop doing that
crap or lose her job I'm sure she would have stopped or at least not
been so obvious about it.

On Jul 23, 2023 at 10:53:40 AM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:36:51 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>
>>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>> $25 million annually.
>>
>>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>
>>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>
>>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>
>>> It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>> they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>> happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>>
>> As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>> to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>> managed to do that.
>
> If you are an actor and can't earn enough to pay the SAG dues are you
> really an actor or a wanna-be? There are a huge number of people who
> want to be actors and will never make it. At some point they should
> realize it and just quit calling themselves an actor. They can still
> make money as background 'actors'. Though with no lines and no
> interaction with the actual stars it's hard to call them an 'actor.'
>
>>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>
>>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>
>>> It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>> WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>>
>> No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>> unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>> work to continue.
>
> Of course not, while it's great for the actors/writers if they win
> their strikes it doesn't nothing for the other unions. In fact it
> could make it tougher for them as the studios won't want to pay out
> more to the other unions if they lose the current battles.
>
>> This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>>
>>> I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>> residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>> the bad guys in this negotiation.
>>
>> Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
>
> Yeah, and I think everyone involved knows it. The studios just don't
> want to get into any deal that forces them to give some insight into
> how they are doing with their streaming products. If they were truly
> doing residuals right they would also provide insight into how many
> viewers each show and even each episode is having. I see that being a
> bright line for the studios that they won't want to budge on.

They also need to change this ridiculous practice of post-cancelling shows on
streaming platforms they've currently got going.

Used to be when a show was cancelled, you could still watch the previous
seasons for pretty much forever, but now when a show gets cancelled after,
say, four seasons, not only do you not a get a Season 5, they pull seasons 1-4
off the platform, too.

They say it's because it's not economical for shows that get little play to
remain available to watch because that's how things like residuals are
monetized now. If the show is 'available to watch', all the below-the-line
people get paid whether it actually gets many views or not, so it makes
financial sense to pull down shows if no one's watching them.

But in these days of computer tracking of absolutely every data point, it
would be a simple matter to rewrite these contracts so that people aren't paid
for a show just being available (which in practice results in them not being
paid at all), but rather to being paid if the show (or episode) is actually
viewed, which again can be easily tracked by the platform's computers. That
way old shows can remain on platforms at virtually no cost to the platform and
the studio and the people who made it will still be paid, even if only a
little, when the occasional person stumbles across it and decides to watch.
Being paid a little is better than being paid nothing and your work
disappearing into a black hole.

On 7/23/2023 10:53 AM, shawn wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:36:51 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>>
>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>
>>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>> $25 million annually.
>>
>>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>
>>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>
>>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>
>>> It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>> they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>> happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>>
>> As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>> to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>> managed to do that.
>
> If you are an actor and can't earn enough to pay the SAG dues are you
> really an actor or a wanna-be? There are a huge number of people who
> want to be actors and will never make it. At some point they should
> realize it and just quit calling themselves an actor. They can still
> make money as background 'actors'. Though with no lines and no
> interaction with the actual stars it's hard to call them an 'actor.'
>
They aren't, they're called "extras".

>>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>
>>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>
>>> It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>> WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>>
>> No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>> unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>> work to continue.
>
> Of course not, while it's great for the actors/writers if they win
> their strikes it doesn't nothing for the other unions. In fact it
> could make it tougher for them as the studios won't want to pay out
> more to the other unions if they lose the current battles.
>
>> This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>>
>>> I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>> residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>> the bad guys in this negotiation.
>>
>> Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
>
> Yeah, and I think everyone involved knows it. The studios just don't
> want to get into any deal that forces them to give some insight into
> how they are doing with their streaming products. If they were truly
> doing residuals right they would also provide insight into how many
> viewers each show and even each episode is having. I see that being a
> bright line for the studios that they won't want to budge on.
>
>> The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
>> studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
>> increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
>> contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
>> because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
>> compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
>> good faith.
>
> Yeah, that was obvious with the way they handled Scarlett Johannson.
>
>> They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
>> are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
>> should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
>> subscribing.
>
> I'm sure if they thought they could get away with it they would love
> to shut down their broadcast stations and move everyone to a paying
> customer.
>
>>> Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>>> start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)
>>
>> Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
>> Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
>> tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
>> over and over again.
>
> It would be great if the writers rooms actually worked to develop the
> talents of the writers in developing their stories. Though from what
> I've seen it seems like all the up and coming writers learn from
> working in the writers room is how the process works. They really need
> to either move every writer through some sort of development process
> that helps them develop into skilled writers or just find and hire the
> damn writers that have a clue what the viewers actually want.

But that's not what the studios want and they hand out the pennies!

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:36:51 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:

>>>>>https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97

>>>>>"Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>>established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>>everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>>of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>>which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>>$25 million annually.

>>>>>He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>>One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>>incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>>on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>>for diluting the cinematic universe.

>>>>>With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>>their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>>placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>>release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>>workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>>its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."

>>>>Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix
>>>>has enough stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.

>>>It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>>they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>>happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.

>>As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>>to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>>managed to do that.

>If you are an actor and can't earn enough to pay the SAG dues are you
>really an actor or a wanna-be? There are a huge number of people who
>want to be actors and will never make it. At some point they should
>realize it and just quit calling themselves an actor. They can still
>make money as background 'actors'. Though with no lines and no
>interaction with the actual stars it's hard to call them an 'actor.'

I'n sure they resent the hell out of paying SAG dues, but they have
absolutely no choice if they want to work.

>>>>>In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>>technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have
>>>>>already recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an
>>>>>actor or a writer can carry on as usual without having to worry
>>>>>about breaching any contracts.

>>>>How is this either sneaky or a workaround?

>>>It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>>WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.

>>No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>>unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>>work to continue.

>Of course not, while it's great for the actors/writers if they win
>their strikes it doesn't nothing for the other unions. In fact it
>could make it tougher for them as the studios won't want to pay out
>more to the other unions if they lose the current battles.

One has nothing to do with the other. Writers, actors, and directors are
compensated per picture, and the ones who make very little want some
compensation and benefits between pictures and tv series. Many of the
post-production people get hourly pay by the studio, not per picture.

>>This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.

>>>I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>>residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>>the bad guys in this negotiation.

>>Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.

>Yeah, and I think everyone involved knows it. The studios just don't
>want to get into any deal that forces them to give some insight into
>how they are doing with their streaming products. If they were truly
>doing residuals right they would also provide insight into how many
>viewers each show and even each episode is having. I see that being a
>bright line for the studios that they won't want to budge on.

>>The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
>>studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
>>increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
>>contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
>>because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
>>compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
>>good faith.

>Yeah, that was obvious with the way they handled Scarlett Johannson.

>>They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
>>are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
>>should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
>>subscribing.

>I'm sure if they thought they could get away with it they would love
>to shut down their broadcast stations and move everyone to a paying
>customer.

There is an economic reason to retain broadcast licenses whether there
are viewers or not.

>>>Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>>>start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)

>>Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
>>Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
>>tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
>>over and over again.

>It would be great if the writers rooms actually worked to develop the
>talents of the writers in developing their stories. Though from what
>I've seen it seems like all the up and coming writers learn from
>working in the writers room is how the process works. They really need
>to either move every writer through some sort of development process
>that helps them develop into skilled writers or just find and hire the
>damn writers that have a clue what the viewers actually want.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 18:33:33 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>On Jul 23, 2023 at 10:53:40 AM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
>wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:36:51 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>>
>>>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>>> $25 million annually.
>>>
>>>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>>
>>>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>>
>>>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>>>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>>
>>>> It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>>> they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>>> happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>>>
>>> As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>>> to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>>> managed to do that.
>>
>> If you are an actor and can't earn enough to pay the SAG dues are you
>> really an actor or a wanna-be? There are a huge number of people who
>> want to be actors and will never make it. At some point they should
>> realize it and just quit calling themselves an actor. They can still
>> make money as background 'actors'. Though with no lines and no
>> interaction with the actual stars it's hard to call them an 'actor.'
>>
>>>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>>
>>>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>>
>>>> It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>>> WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>>>
>>> No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>>> unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>>> work to continue.
>>
>> Of course not, while it's great for the actors/writers if they win
>> their strikes it doesn't nothing for the other unions. In fact it
>> could make it tougher for them as the studios won't want to pay out
>> more to the other unions if they lose the current battles.
>>
>>> This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>>>
>>>> I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>>> residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>>> the bad guys in this negotiation.
>>>
>>> Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
>>
>> Yeah, and I think everyone involved knows it. The studios just don't
>> want to get into any deal that forces them to give some insight into
>> how they are doing with their streaming products. If they were truly
>> doing residuals right they would also provide insight into how many
>> viewers each show and even each episode is having. I see that being a
>> bright line for the studios that they won't want to budge on.
>
>They also need to change this ridiculous practice of post-cancelling shows on
>streaming platforms they've currently got going.
>
>Used to be when a show was cancelled, you could still watch the previous
>seasons for pretty much forever, but now when a show gets cancelled after,
>say, four seasons, not only do you not a get a Season 5, they pull seasons 1-4
>off the platform, too.

Agreed. This is just about them making more money and not about what
they have to pay out. Plus there's often tax benefits for them which
the combo is what led to that movie being released on Disney+
streaming and then getting removed after seven weeks (I think that was
how long it was up.)

>They say it's because it's not economical for shows that get little play to
>remain available to watch because that's how things like residuals are
>monetized now. If the show is 'available to watch', all the below-the-line
>people get paid whether it actually gets many views or not, so it makes
>financial sense to pull down shows if no one's watching them.
>
>But in these days of computer tracking of absolutely every data point, it
>would be a simple matter to rewrite these contracts so that people aren't paid
>for a show just being available (which in practice results in them not being
>paid at all), but rather to being paid if the show (or episode) is actually
>viewed, which again can be easily tracked by the platform's computers. That
>way old shows can remain on platforms at virtually no cost to the platform and
>the studio and the people who made it will still be paid, even if only a
>little, when the occasional person stumbles across it and decides to watch.
>Being paid a little is better than being paid nothing and your work
>disappearing into a black hole.

Which gets to the point that I was making. They (the steaming
platforms) have to have the information available on what movies/show
episodes are being watched and by how many people. Even when they are
watched for a few minutes and then clicked away. (I know Youtube has
that sort of detailed analytics so you can see exactly when people
stop watching a clip.) So they could very easily pay people on how
many actual views (and not just samples) are made of each movie/show
episode, but that would mean providing an actual accountable for every
view and likely paying out more money.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 13:00:56 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 7/23/2023 10:53 AM, shawn wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 16:36:51 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 23 Jul 2023 02:09:51 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jul 22, 2023 at 6:28:36 PM PDT, Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net>:
>>>
>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/disney-enhances-its-reputation-as-public-enemy-1-with-a-sneaky-way-of-continuing-production-during-dual-strikes/ar-AA1eaVyH?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=0c4678da9eae421cfb087f796d5b3a44&ei=97
>>>
>>>>>> "Thanks largely to comments made by the man in charge, Disney has
>>>>>> established itself as one of the greatest threats facing picketers
>>>>>> everywhere, with Bob Iger sitting atop his throne and mountainous piles
>>>>>> of cash to denigrate the demands of actors and writers as "unrealistic",
>>>>>> which is an interesting perspective from somebody who makes upwards of
>>>>>> $25 million annually.
>>>
>>>>>> He even managed to piss off Marvel alumni old and new alike, with Phase
>>>>>> One stalwart and AGENST OF S.H.I.E.L.D. mainstay Clark Gregg left
>>>>>> incredulous by Iger's claims the comic book company never had an impact
>>>>>> on the small screen until he got involved, which came as he blamed it
>>>>>> for diluting the cinematic universe.
>>>
>>>>>> With on-camera talents and scribes alike refusing to work or promote
>>>>>> their projects until matters are resolved, major question marks were
>>>>>> placed over animated features currently in production with a locked-in
>>>>>> release date. According to The Wrap, the Mouse House has found a sneaky
>>>>>> workaround after it was relayed to the outlet that "Pixar went out of
>>>>>> its way to bank recordings in advance of the strike."
>>>
>>>>> Most of the studios did this. It's hardly some big secret. Netflix has enough
>>>>> stuff on the shelf to keep putting up new shows for a year.
>>>
>>>> It was an obvious move, much like the writers and actors had to know
>>>> they should be putting away extra $$$ because the strike was likely to
>>>> happen. Anyone that could and didn't prepare was being foolish.
>>>
>>> As 95% of actors don't work enough to make a living, and I'm clueless as
>>> to how they can afford to pay their SAG dues, I don't see how they
>>> managed to do that.
>>
>> If you are an actor and can't earn enough to pay the SAG dues are you
>> really an actor or a wanna-be? There are a huge number of people who
>> want to be actors and will never make it. At some point they should
>> realize it and just quit calling themselves an actor. They can still
>> make money as background 'actors'. Though with no lines and no
>> interaction with the actual stars it's hard to call them an 'actor.'
>>
>They aren't, they're called "extras".

Sure, but there are people among the "extras" who are just happy to be
bringing in some extra cash and then those who think this could be
their big acting break.

>>>>>> In essence, the likes of next year's ELIO and INSIDE OUT 2 can
>>>>>> technically carry on being tinkered with because the talent have already
>>>>>> recorded their lines, meaning that anyone who isn't an actor or a writer
>>>>>> can carry on as usual without having to worry about breaching any contracts.
>>>
>>>>> How is this either sneaky or a workaround?
>>>
>>>> It's only sneaky because it hurts the WGA's case and supporting the
>>>> WGA/SAG-AFTRA is the politically correct thing to do.
>>>
>>> No, that's merely moviePig-ization of English. Workers in the other
>>> unions aren't honoring picket lines, and studios expect post-production
>>> work to continue.
>>
>> Of course not, while it's great for the actors/writers if they win
>> their strikes it doesn't nothing for the other unions. In fact it
>> could make it tougher for them as the studios won't want to pay out
>> more to the other unions if they lose the current battles.
>>
>>> This is what can happen with craft unions and not industry unions.
>>>
>>>> I do believe that some of the things like changing the way streaming
>>>> residuals work needs to happen, but that doesn't mean the studios are
>>>> the bad guys in this negotiation.
>>>
>>> Streaming absolutely is what makes the studio bosses evil motherfuckers.
>>
>> Yeah, and I think everyone involved knows it. The studios just don't
>> want to get into any deal that forces them to give some insight into
>> how they are doing with their streaming products. If they were truly
>> doing residuals right they would also provide insight into how many
>> viewers each show and even each episode is having. I see that being a
>> bright line for the studios that they won't want to budge on.
>>
>>> The economics of shifting as much distribution as possible to
>>> studio- owned streaming make no economic sense, so it was done to
>>> increase bonuses for the top-level executives and to break long-standing
>>> contracts rather than negotiating new contracts. Streaming happened
>>> because studios simply didn't want to pay actors the delayed
>>> compensation (percentage of box office gross) they negotiated to pay in
>>> good faith.
>>
>> Yeah, that was obvious with the way they handled Scarlett Johannson.
>>
>>> They're murdering broadcast and satellite, despite the fact that both
>>> are generally sister companies of the studios. Gawd forbid broadcast
>>> should continue to exist to allow viewers to watch something without
>>> subscribing.
>>
>> I'm sure if they thought they could get away with it they would love
>> to shut down their broadcast stations and move everyone to a paying
>> customer.
>>
>>>> Even if some of them are clearly tone deaf (saying they want writers to
>>>> start losing their homes before they begin real negotiation.)
>>>
>>> Who the fuck cares about their homes? They need to be sent to the
>>> Seventh Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno with nothing to do but watch
>>> tv with the same three plots and the same cliched characters over and
>>> over and over again.
>>
>> It would be great if the writers rooms actually worked to develop the
>> talents of the writers in developing their stories. Though from what
>> I've seen it seems like all the up and coming writers learn from
>> working in the writers room is how the process works. They really need
>> to either move every writer through some sort of development process
>> that helps them develop into skilled writers or just find and hire the
>> damn writers that have a clue what the viewers actually want.
>
>But that's not what the studios want and they hand out the pennies!

Yeah, but the studios are starting to pay for it. One of the
consistent complaints about Marvel products over the last few years is
about how they keep pushing various messages. Now, it's my opinion
that most people wouldn't care about them pushing some message if the
show/movie actually had an engaging story but so often it seems the
writers got so caught up in delivering their message they forgot to
concentrate on the actual story.

I know that MS MARVEL had a great start about a young woman finding
out she had powers and learning to deal with that while still having a
normal life with all of those challenges. It also had a great art
style, but after three episodes the entire show changed because the
writers wanted to get to their story about the issues concerning
Indian-Pakistani relationships. In their concern about not having time
to get to that message they lost the plot on what they started with in
the first few episodes.

I think if they had saved that storyline for a second season and just
stuck with the young woman coming into her own for the first season
(and kept up the art style) the show would have had a much warmer
welcome. Also they truly screwed themselves when they introduced the
best character/actor on the show in that Red Band(?) leader and then
killed him off right away. They really should have kept him alive even
if they somehow sidelined him so they could bring him back for a
second season. I get that may not be what they had in mind when the
writers scripted it but someone should have seen how the guy popped on
the screen and made the call to keep him alive.

anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:

> And speaking of Disney, the YouTube thought we would all enjoy this:
> https://youtu.be/vG9o9m0LsbI

I'm not sure if they showed this during sex-ed classes in JHS, but I
distinctly remember watching a Disney movie in which Donald Duck expressed
dismay at a cartoon penis becoming erect. Boy, did we all laugh!

--
Let's go Brandon!