"The Council of Elrond" is one of my favorite chapters of LotR,
because of the "lore". In that chapter, you may remember, Legolas
reveals that Gollum escaped from his imprisonment by the Elves.

Near the beginning of the next chapter, Bilbo says that everyone at
the Council had an eye-opener, "Even old Gandalf. I think Legolas?s
bit of news about Gollum caught even him on the hop, though he passed
it off." Gandalf retorts, "You were wrong. You were inattentive. I
had already heard of it from Gwaihir."

Only ... this time I went back to the Council chapter and re-read
Gandalf's account of his conversation with Gwaihir at Orthanc, and I
sure didn't see anything in it about Gollum. Am I missing something,
or was Gwaihir's report to Gandalf in an earlier version, and when
Tolkien took it out he missed this back reference in the next
chapter?

(Hammond and Scull don't have anything to say about it in /LotR: A
Reader's Companion/, and I don't have volume VI of HoME to look up
drafts of the Council chapter.)

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in
news:MPG.3dd157607feb444498ffee@news.individual.net:

> "The Council of Elrond" is one of my favorite chapters of LotR,
> because of the "lore". In that chapter, you may remember,
> Legolas reveals that Gollum escaped from his imprisonment by the
> Elves.
>
> Near the beginning of the next chapter, Bilbo says that everyone
> at the Council had an eye-opener, "Even old Gandalf. I think
> Legolas?s bit of news about Gollum caught even him on the hop,
> though he passed it off." Gandalf retorts, "You were wrong. You
> were inattentive. I had already heard of it from Gwaihir."
>
> Only ... this time I went back to the Council chapter and
> re-read Gandalf's account of his conversation with Gwaihir at
> Orthanc, and I sure didn't see anything in it about Gollum. Am I
> missing something, or was Gwaihir's report to Gandalf in an
> earlier version, and when Tolkien took it out he missed this
> back reference in the next chapter?
>
> (Hammond and Scull don't have anything to say about it in /LotR:
> A Reader's Companion/, and I don't have volume VI of HoME to
> look up drafts of the Council chapter.)
>

It's actually mentioned a couple of paragraphs before Gandalf's
account of his conversation with Gwaihur. Gandalf says that "the
Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many
things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of orcs; and the
Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard
news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring
these tidings to me."

(With the implication that Gwaihur, being that messenger, would
have told all of this to Gandalf.)

On Sun, 06 Nov 2022 16:24:17 GMT, Michael Ikeda wrote:
>
> Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in
> news:MPG.3dd157607feb444498ffee@news.individual.net:
>
> > "The Council of Elrond" is one of my favorite chapters of LotR,
> > because of the "lore". In that chapter, you may remember,
> > Legolas reveals that Gollum escaped from his imprisonment by the
> > Elves.
> >
> > Near the beginning of the next chapter, Bilbo says that everyone
> > at the Council had an eye-opener, "Even old Gandalf. I think
> > Legolas?s bit of news about Gollum caught even him on the hop,
> > though he passed it off." Gandalf retorts, "You were wrong. You
> > were inattentive. I had already heard of it from Gwaihir."
> >
> > Only ... this time I went back to the Council chapter and
> > re-read Gandalf's account of his conversation with Gwaihir at
> > Orthanc, and I sure didn't see anything in it about Gollum. Am I
> > missing something, or was Gwaihir's report to Gandalf in an
> > earlier version, and when Tolkien took it out he missed this
> > back reference in the next chapter?
> >
> > (Hammond and Scull don't have anything to say about it in /LotR:
> > A Reader's Companion/, and I don't have volume VI of HoME to
> > look up drafts of the Council chapter.)
> >
>
> It's actually mentioned a couple of paragraphs before Gandalf's
> account of his conversation with Gwaihur. Gandalf says that "the
> Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many
> things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of orcs; and the
> Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard
> news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring
> these tidings to me."
>
> (With the implication that Gwaihur, being that messenger, would
> have told all of this to Gandalf.)

Thanks -- that has bothered me every time I reread LotR -- I turn
back and find Gwaihir's speech to Gandalf, and scratch my head. Now I
know that it's implied rather than stated directly, but once it's
pointed out it seems pretty clear. Thank you!

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen)
Tolkien letters FAQ: https://preview.tinyurl.com/pr6sa7u
FAQ of the Rings: https://BrownMath.com/general/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: https://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm