In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e-8856-951d7a5a77ban@googlegroups.com>,
RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019

It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.

A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see
them through the winter.

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 11:54:16 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e-8856-951d7a5a77ban@googlegroups.com>,
> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019
>
>It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
>become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.

Well think about it from the perspective of the locals that see these
large buildings going up that people will live in or just vacation in
but are too expensive for the locals to live in. That alone would be a
reason for many to dislike the tourists. Then there's the crowds that
they can create.
I don't know what it is like there but I'm reminded of Panama City,
Florida. A place that come to be dominate by the huge buildings acting
as hotels or condos and crowds that make it impossible to move around
during the summer months. I could easily see the old timers that grew
up in the city not caring for the crowds. Hell, I only visited and I
stay away from the place now because of the crowds.

>A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
>tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see
>them through the winter.

Yep. Hawaii has the problem of there not truly being a summer season
due to their year long pleasant weather.

In article <sojndi5lfkkiq5vr2bg09t1dkssrgo1akg@4ax.com>,
shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 11:54:16 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e-8856-951d7a5a77ban@googlegroups.com>,
> > RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019
> >
> >It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
> >become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.
>
> Well think about it from the perspective of the locals that see these
> large buildings going up that people will live in or just vacation in
> but are too expensive for the locals to live in. That alone would be a
> reason for many to dislike the tourists. Then there's the crowds that
> they can create.
> I don't know what it is like there but I'm reminded of Panama City,
> Florida. A place that come to be dominate by the huge buildings acting
> as hotels or condos and crowds that make it impossible to move around
> during the summer months. I could easily see the old timers that grew
> up in the city not caring for the crowds.

But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
them, nothing gets done.

It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.

> >A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
> >tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see
> >them through the winter.
>
> Yep. Hawaii has the problem of there not truly being a summer season
> due to their year long pleasant weather.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
>community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
>provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
>them, nothing gets done.

Can somebody explain to me why anyone thought it was a good idea to
build huge buildings on unstable volcanic soil? Honolulu makes no sense.

>It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
>locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
>that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
>self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
>about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
>they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.

In article <ubgk5p$2umeu$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> >But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
> >community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
> >provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
> >them, nothing gets done.
>
> Can somebody explain to me why anyone thought it was a good idea to
> build huge buildings on unstable volcanic soil? Honolulu makes no sense.

Are they built on volcanic soil or volcanic rock?

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 12:33:34 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <sojndi5lfkkiq5vr2bg09t1dkssrgo1akg@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 11:54:16 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e-8856-951d7a5a77ban@googlegroups.com>,
>> > RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019
>> >
>> >It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
>> >become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.
>>
>> Well think about it from the perspective of the locals that see these
>> large buildings going up that people will live in or just vacation in
>> but are too expensive for the locals to live in. That alone would be a
>> reason for many to dislike the tourists. Then there's the crowds that
>> they can create.
>> I don't know what it is like there but I'm reminded of Panama City,
>> Florida. A place that come to be dominate by the huge buildings acting
>> as hotels or condos and crowds that make it impossible to move around
>> during the summer months. I could easily see the old timers that grew
>> up in the city not caring for the crowds.
>
>But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
>community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
>provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
>them, nothing gets done.

Sure, it's a problem because some of the locals benefit from the
tourism while others don't. The best I saw was a video I watched a few
weeks ago about the Maldives. There companies had come in and build
these huge complexes from the large building to house tourists to the
very expensive bungalows build on the water. The locals were being
pushed out and mostly weren't benefiting from the tourism trade.

That is until they realized they could compete with those very
expensive places by offering their own much cheaper accommodations.
They could also offer better service as they would only have a few
customers at a time. I'm sure there are some who still feel pushed out
but at least we see some able to turn the tourism trade into a good
thing for more of the locals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1NTKqA0qvg
What Maldives Luxury Resorts Don't Want You to Know

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1NTKqA0qvg
>It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
>locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
>that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
>self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
>about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
>they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.
>
>> >A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
>> >tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see
>> >them through the winter.
>>
>> Yep. Hawaii has the problem of there not truly being a summer season
>> due to their year long pleasant weather.

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 19:37:29 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
>>community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
>>provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
>>them, nothing gets done.
>
>Can somebody explain to me why anyone thought it was a good idea to
>build huge buildings on unstable volcanic soil? Honolulu makes no sense.

I doubt the huge buildings are being built on unstable soil. There's
no way any insurance company would cover them and with the money
involved there had to be extensive studies to make sure they had a
good solid foundation to build on. Now the local building/homes built
in the past might be a very different story as many might have been
built in a time when there were few if any construction rules.

>>It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
>>locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
>>that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
>>self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
>>about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
>>they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
>> community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
>> provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
>> them, nothing gets done.
>
> Can somebody explain to me why anyone thought it was a good idea to
> build huge buildings on unstable volcanic soil? Honolulu makes no sense.
>

Because the land is so expensive (and can’t be bought, only leased) that
the only way you can afford to build a hotel is to build it tall.

>> It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
>> locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
>> that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
>> self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
>> about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
>> they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.
>

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 8/15/23 2:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e-8856-951d7a5a77ban@googlegroups.com>,
> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019
>
> It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
> become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.
>
> A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
> tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see
> them through the winter.
>

You know, people go to work every single day hating their jobs.
Funny you think this is any different.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

On 8/15/23 3:33 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <sojndi5lfkkiq5vr2bg09t1dkssrgo1akg@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 11:54:16 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e-8856-951d7a5a77ban@googlegroups.com>,
>>> RichA <rander3128@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019
>>>
>>> It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
>>> become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.
>>
>> Well think about it from the perspective of the locals that see these
>> large buildings going up that people will live in or just vacation in
>> but are too expensive for the locals to live in. That alone would be a
>> reason for many to dislike the tourists. Then there's the crowds that
>> they can create.
>> I don't know what it is like there but I'm reminded of Panama City,
>> Florida. A place that come to be dominate by the huge buildings acting
>> as hotels or condos and crowds that make it impossible to move around
>> during the summer months. I could easily see the old timers that grew
>> up in the city not caring for the crowds.
>
> But at the same time, if those crowds suddenly vanished, the entire
> community would go bankrupt and collapse. And those huge buildings? They
> provide the tax base for everything from schools to road repair. Without
> them, nothing gets done.
>
> It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
> locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
> that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
> self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
> about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
> they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.
>
>>> A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
>>> tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see
>>> them through the winter.
>>
>> Yep. Hawaii has the problem of there not truly being a summer season
>> due to their year long pleasant weather.

Yup. Like I just said... the same could be said for MOST people as it
relates to their jobs.

Why would it be any different for the hospitality industry? I'm sure
most people working picking beans in a field don't love what they're doing.

Work. If it was so great, they wouldn't have to pay you to do it.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 12:33:34 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <sojndi5lfkkiq5vr2bg09t1dkssrgo1akg@4ax.com>,
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
>locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
>that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
>self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
>about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
>they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.

Heck I seldom go to downtown Vancouver any more and especially avoid
the area around the cruise ship terminal - though if the druggies keep
moving westwards from their current base that could be a non issue
within 10 years.

I live in a nice neighborhood that suffers from bonehead traffic
planning measures taken by the neighboring municipality that seems
fine with screwing over long established patterns for the sake of "the
agenda" - we have one road over a large hill that in a 2 mile section
requires no fewer than 7 lane changes to accommodate bike lanes on
both sides of the street. (Did I mention buses also use this route?)
These particular bike lanes seldom get over 300 cyclists a day but to
accommodate them they screw up a major arterial on hilly terrain...

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 19:37:29 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>Can somebody explain to me why anyone thought it was a good idea to
>build huge buildings on unstable volcanic soil? Honolulu makes no sense.
>
>>It's a very contradictory attitude, but it's nevertheless common to
>>locals in tourist areas worldwide. The locals feel that the very fact
>>that they need strangers to survive underscores their own lack of basic
>>self-sufficiency so they get resentful but as much as they complain
>>about them, they don't actually want the tourists to go away because
>>they recognize that they are the town's lifeblood.

Perhaps but it's the ONLY really good port area on Oahu - I can't
imagine Kailua or any area on the north or west of Oahu accommodating
even 10% of Oahu's needs.

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:21:02 PM UTC-5, shawn wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 11:54:16 -0700, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <11aa6f4d-87fb-4b9e...@googlegroups.com>,
> > RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66507019
> >
> >It's not uncommon for communities that rely on outsiders to survive to
> >become resentful of the very thing that keeps them going.
> Well think about it from the perspective of the locals that see these
> large buildings going up that people will live in or just vacation in
> but are too expensive for the locals to live in. That alone would be a
> reason for many to dislike the tourists. Then there's the crowds that
> they can create.
> I don't know what it is like there but I'm reminded of Panama City,
> Florida. A place that come to be dominate by the huge buildings acting
> as hotels or condos and crowds that make it impossible to move around
> during the summer months. I could easily see the old timers that grew
> up in the city not caring for the crowds. Hell, I only visited and I
> stay away from the place now because of the crowds.
> >A lot of New England "summer towns" develop the same attitude toward the
> >tourists that flood in during the summers and spend the dollars that see ing.
> >them through the winter.
> Yep. Hawaii has the problem of there not truly being a summer season
> due to their year long pleasant weather.

This is a solution for Maui, trade it for Greenland. Maui gets German dedicated presision and US gets fabulous resources after melting. That TV apprentice guy did have one good idea.