On Thursday, 12 July 2001 at 08:18:12 UTC-7, Jamil Ahmad wrote:
> "Vijay Kumar" <kumarv@home.com> wrote in message news:<qC937.456857$eK2.94622030@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>...
> > Jamil Sahib:
> >
> > I can't begin to describe how happy you have made me! I have been looking
> > for this ghazal since late seventies. I came home to your post and voila!
> > here it is. I feel like (allow me a bit of hyperbole:-))
> >
> > jaise seharaaoN meN haule se chale ba'ade nasiim
> > jaise biimaar ko be-vajah qaraar aa jae
> Vijay Sahib,
> When talking of the effect that Ghalib's poetry has on
> "sukhan-shinaasaaN", it is difficult to avoid hyperbole, and what
> better way to express it than in the words of that other master,
> Faiz!!!
> Thanks so much for the Panjabi ghazal. It has two extra ash'aar that
> were not there in what I had posted, so I looked for them and
> fortunately did find them.
> First of all, I must correct an error I had made in my earlier
> posting. The first line had the word "baavar" (belive) missing. The
> correct she'r is:
> za man gar-at na-bavad BAAVAR intezaar be'aa
> bahaana jooe mabaash va sateeza-kaar be'aa
> [agar maire intizaar ka yaqeen nahin karta to aa ja
> bahaane na banaa aur jaldi aa ja]
> > mere shauq da nahiiN aitbaar teN nuuN aa jaa vekh meraa intezaar aa jaa
> > aiNveN laRan b'haane labhnaa iiN, kii tuu sochanaa iiN sitamgaar aa jaa
> The translation of this she'r seems to be a bit free.
> -------------------------------
> The missing ash'aar are:
> to tifl-e-saadah-dil o ham-nashin bad-aamooz-ast
> janaaza gar na-tavaan deed, bar mazaar be'aa
> [tu saad-dil bachcha hai aur tera saathi buri baat sikhaata hai
> agar janaaza nahiN dekha to mazaar par aa]
> > tuu saada te tera dil saadaa, teN nuuN aiNveN raqiib kuraah paaia
> > je tuuN mere janaaze te nahiiN aaia, raah takdaa ii terii m'zaar aa jaa
> ----------------------------
> ravaaj-e-soma'h-e-hastee-st zeenhaar ma-ro
> mataa'e'maikadah mastee-st hushiyaar be'aa
> ['ibaadat-gaah ka ravaaj hastee (ego) hai, khabardaar mat ja
> maikade ki daulat mastee hai, samajhdaari kar, aa ja]
> > eh ravaaj ai masjidaaN maNdiraaN da, othe hastiiaaN te Khud parastiiaaN neN
> > maiKhaane vicch mastiiaaN ii mastiiaaN neN, hosh kar ban ke hoshiaar aa jaa
> -----------------------
> The translation is superb. Except for a line or two, it is very
> faithful to the original. The behr in the translation is much longer
> than in the original, but then the translator needed extra words to
> faithfully express the ideas.
> --------
> Vijay Sahib, your long search for the Farsi ghazal just underscores an
> irony. Ghalib took great pride in his Farsi poetry as opposed to his
> work in Urdu. He has said:
> Farsi been ta ba-beeni naqsh-haa'-e- rang rang
> ba-guzar az majmoo'-e-Urdu keh be-rang-e-man ast
> [Farsi ko dekho ta keh ranga rang naqsh dekho
> maire Urdu ke majmoo'e ko chhoRo keh be-rang hai]
> Muhammad Hussain Azad in Aab-e-Hayaat has dissmissively said something
> to the effect; "Ghalib was primarily interested in writing poetry and
> prose in Farsi, but since he has also published in Urdu, ... it is
> necessary to mention him in this book."
> As time passed, and Urdu-speaking population's knowledge of Farsi
> declined, Ghalib's Persian works fell into obscurity. If you walk
> into any large bookstore in Pakistan, you will probably not find any
> of Ghalib's Persian books. As for the Iranians, except for specialist
> scholars, no one has even heard of Ghalib. But there is comfort in
> the fact that each new generation seems to appreciate Divan-e-Ghalib
> more than the previous one.
> Faqat
> Jamil

This message [looking for this from the late 70s and finally finding it after 30 years is so heart warming. The persian version provided by Jamil and the background is just incredible. This is a ghazal I like a lot but i did not understand all the nuances of it, or rather I like it more after reading the Persian version by Jamil. Thanks to both of you for searching for this and finding it for the searcher and providing us with such happiness.

On Friday, 29 September 2023 at 17:22:26 UTC+1, George Antony wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 July 2001 at 08:18:12 UTC-7, Jamil Ahmad wrote:
> > "Vijay Kumar" <kum...@home.com> wrote in message news:<qC937.456857$eK2..94...@news4.rdc1.on.home.com>...
> > > Jamil Sahib:
> > >
> > > I can't begin to describe how happy you have made me! I have been looking
> > > for this ghazal since late seventies. I came home to your post and voila!
> > > here it is. I feel like (allow me a bit of hyperbole:-))
> > >
> > > jaise seharaaoN meN haule se chale ba'ade nasiim
> > > jaise biimaar ko be-vajah qaraar aa jae
> > Vijay Sahib,
> > When talking of the effect that Ghalib's poetry has on
> > "sukhan-shinaasaaN", it is difficult to avoid hyperbole, and what
> > better way to express it than in the words of that other master,
> > Faiz!!!
> > Thanks so much for the Panjabi ghazal. It has two extra ash'aar that
> > were not there in what I had posted, so I looked for them and
> > fortunately did find them.
> > First of all, I must correct an error I had made in my earlier
> > posting. The first line had the word "baavar" (belive) missing. The
> > correct she'r is:
> > za man gar-at na-bavad BAAVAR intezaar be'aa
> > bahaana jooe mabaash va sateeza-kaar be'aa
> > [agar maire intizaar ka yaqeen nahin karta to aa ja
> > bahaane na banaa aur jaldi aa ja]
> > > mere shauq da nahiiN aitbaar teN nuuN aa jaa vekh meraa intezaar aa jaa
> > > aiNveN laRan b'haane labhnaa iiN, kii tuu sochanaa iiN sitamgaar aa jaa
> > The translation of this she'r seems to be a bit free.
> > -------------------------------
> > The missing ash'aar are:
> > to tifl-e-saadah-dil o ham-nashin bad-aamooz-ast
> > janaaza gar na-tavaan deed, bar mazaar be'aa
> > [tu saad-dil bachcha hai aur tera saathi buri baat sikhaata hai
> > agar janaaza nahiN dekha to mazaar par aa]
> > > tuu saada te tera dil saadaa, teN nuuN aiNveN raqiib kuraah paaia
> > > je tuuN mere janaaze te nahiiN aaia, raah takdaa ii terii m'zaar aa jaa
> > ----------------------------
> > ravaaj-e-soma'h-e-hastee-st zeenhaar ma-ro
> > mataa'e'maikadah mastee-st hushiyaar be'aa
> > ['ibaadat-gaah ka ravaaj hastee (ego) hai, khabardaar mat ja
> > maikade ki daulat mastee hai, samajhdaari kar, aa ja]
> > > eh ravaaj ai masjidaaN maNdiraaN da, othe hastiiaaN te Khud parastiiaaN neN
> > > maiKhaane vicch mastiiaaN ii mastiiaaN neN, hosh kar ban ke hoshiaar aa jaa
> > -----------------------
> > The translation is superb. Except for a line or two, it is very
> > faithful to the original. The behr in the translation is much longer
> > than in the original, but then the translator needed extra words to
> > faithfully express the ideas.
> > --------
> > Vijay Sahib, your long search for the Farsi ghazal just underscores an
> > irony. Ghalib took great pride in his Farsi poetry as opposed to his
> > work in Urdu. He has said:
> > Farsi been ta ba-beeni naqsh-haa'-e- rang rang
> > ba-guzar az majmoo'-e-Urdu keh be-rang-e-man ast
> > [Farsi ko dekho ta keh ranga rang naqsh dekho
> > maire Urdu ke majmoo'e ko chhoRo keh be-rang hai]
> > Muhammad Hussain Azad in Aab-e-Hayaat has dissmissively said something
> > to the effect; "Ghalib was primarily interested in writing poetry and
> > prose in Farsi, but since he has also published in Urdu, ... it is
> > necessary to mention him in this book."
> > As time passed, and Urdu-speaking population's knowledge of Farsi
> > declined, Ghalib's Persian works fell into obscurity. If you walk
> > into any large bookstore in Pakistan, you will probably not find any
> > of Ghalib's Persian books. As for the Iranians, except for specialist
> > scholars, no one has even heard of Ghalib. But there is comfort in
> > the fact that each new generation seems to appreciate Divan-e-Ghalib
> > more than the previous one.
> > Faqat
> > Jamil
> This message [looking for this from the late 70s and finally finding it after 30 years is so heart warming. The persian version provided by Jamil and the background is just incredible. This is a ghazal I like a lot but i did not understand all the nuances of it, or rather I like it more after reading the Persian version by Jamil. Thanks to both of you for searching for this and finding it for the searcher and providing us with such happiness.

George Anthony saaHib aadaab.

If you are new to this forum, then please allow me the opportunity to welcome you with an attached request. The request is this. Please visit this forum wheneer you are able to and convey your thoughts here regarding Urdu poetry.

I wish I could convey your gratitude to Vijay and Jamil saaHibaan. The former hasn't participated here for some time now but, I am reliably informed, he is well. As for Jamil saaHib, I am sorry to inform you that he passed away about a year ago and he is sadly missed.

Here are links to two more threads on the topic of Sufi Tabassum's Punjabi translation of Ghalib's Persian Ghazal.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/zhXxaFFyWlg/m/5j91t7e1xxEJ

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/R-NH5ZikVPo/m/PXN8OyZ70ZYJ

Naseer