On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 11:18:53 PM UTC-5, George Dance wrote:
>
> Long may you live
>
> for K.K.
>
> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>
> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> And living life complete: a day to try,
> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> Long may you live.
>
> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> And on that future day when you must die,
> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> "Long may you live."

Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!

Zod wrote:

> On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 11:18:53 PM UTC-5, George Dance wrote:
>>
>> Long may you live
>>
>> for K.K.
>>
>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>>
>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>> And living life complete: a day to try,
>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>> Long may you live.
>>
>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>> And on that future day when you must die,
>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>> "Long may you live."

> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!

Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.

Will Dockery wrote:
> Zod wrote:
>> George Dance wrote:
>>>
>>> Long may you live
>>>
>>> for K.K.
>>>
>>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
>>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
>>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>>>
>>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>>> And living life complete: a day to try,
>>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>>> Long may you live.
>>>
>>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>>> And on that future day when you must die,
>>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>>> "Long may you live."

>> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!

> Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.

In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.

On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > Zod wrote:
> >> George Dance wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Long may you live
> >>>
> >>> for K.K.
> >>>
> >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> >>>
> >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> >>> Long may you live.
> >>>
> >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> >>> "Long may you live."
>
> >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>
> > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.

They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.

I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative.. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:

https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

George Dance wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Zod wrote:
>> >> George Dance wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Long may you live
>> >>>
>> >>> for K.K.
>> >>>
>> >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>> >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
>> >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>> >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
>> >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>> >>>
>> >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>> >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
>> >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>> >>> Long may you live.
>> >>>
>> >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>> >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>> >>> And on that future day when you must die,
>> >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>> >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>> >>> "Long may you live."
>>
>> >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>>
>> > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
>> In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.

> They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.

> I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative.. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:

> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

And even the "clunkers" are worth revisiting, to perhaps refurbish.

:)

George J Dance wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > George J Dance wrote:
> > > Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> > > > Reads like the Lamentations of a grandparent. Good work.
> > > > Thanks for posting. Haven't heard from you in a while.
> > >
> > > I hadn't [...] written any poetry in a while. Thanks for reading.
> >
> > Great to see you back, and back in touch with your Muse, old friend.
> >
> > :)
> Temporarily, anyway; this is the only poem I've written in 10 months, and the next one may well take another 10 or more. I'm glad you saw it; thanks for reading.

Keep the good work coming G.D....!!

On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Zod wrote:
> > >> George Dance wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Long may you live
> > >>>
> > >>> for K.K.
> > >>>
> > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > >>>
> > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > >>> Long may you live.
> > >>>
> > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > >>> "Long may you live."
> >
> > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> >
> > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
>
> I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
>
> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.

We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.

If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.

Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.

On Thursday, March 30, 2023 at 5:50:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> George J Dance wrote:
> > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > George J Dance wrote:
> > > > Hieronymous707 wrote:
> >
> > > > > Reads like the Lamentations of a grandparent. Good work.
> > > > > Thanks for posting. Haven't heard from you in a while.
> > > >
> > > > I hadn't [...] written any poetry in a while. Thanks for reading.
> > >
> > > Great to see you back, and back in touch with your Muse, old friend.
> > >
> > > :)
> > Temporarily, anyway; this is the only poem I've written in 10 months, and the next one may well take another 10 or more. I'm glad you saw it; thanks for reading.
>
> Keep the good work coming G.D....!!

Seconded.

🙂

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 4:22:12 PM UTC, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Zod wrote:
> > > >> George Dance wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Long may you live
> > > >>>
> > > >>> for K.K.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > >
> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > >
> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> >
> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> >
> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
George Dance is terminally paranoid.
>
> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.

The poem is contradictory as well as cliched in a "may the road rise up to meet you" kind of way. We wonder if George Dance read over his poem to see if it actually made sense:
"[...] long after I am gone,
And may you always keep your thoughts upon
Our memories;"

In other words, don't ever forget me, even when I am dead and moldering. Always think of "me."

But then he writes:

"[...]
True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
[...]
Once more may you remember me, and sigh,"

But s/he has been cautioned to never forget the speaker, so how can s/he once more remember if s/he is always thinking of their memories? 'Tis a puzzlement.
>
> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
>
> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
And pigs are going to fly across the sky when George Dance accepts help.

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 10:38:59 PM UTC, NancyGene wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 4:22:12 PM UTC, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Zod wrote:
> > > > >> George Dance wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> for K.K.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > > >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > > >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> > > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > > >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> > > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > > >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> > > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > >
> > > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha..
> > > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > >
> > > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > >
> > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> > We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> George Dance is terminally paranoid.
> >
> > We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> The poem is contradictory as well as cliched in a "may the road rise up to meet you" kind of way. We wonder if George Dance read over his poem to see if it actually made sense:
> "[...] long after I am gone,
> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> Our memories;"
> In other words, don't ever forget me, even when I am dead and moldering. Always think of "me."
>
> But then he writes:
>
> "[...]
> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> [...]
> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,"
> But s/he has been cautioned to never forget the speaker, so how can s/he once more remember if s/he is always thinking of their memories? 'Tis a puzzlement.
> >
> > If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> >
> > Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> And pigs are going to fly across the sky when George Dance accepts help.

We also liked "firelies" better than the correction. Of course, that changes the meaning of the poem.

On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Zod wrote:
> > >> George Dance wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Long may you live
> > >>>
> > >>> for K.K.
> > >>>
> > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > >>>
> > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > >>> Long may you live.
> > >>>
> > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > >>> "Long may you live."
> >
> > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> >
> > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
>
> I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
>
> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

It's degenerated to a spelling lame, now.

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 6:38:59 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 4:22:12 PM UTC, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Zod wrote:
> > > > >> George Dance wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> for K.K.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > > >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > > >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> > > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > > >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> > > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > > >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> > > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > >
> > > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha..
> > > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > >
> > > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > >
> > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> > We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> George Dance is terminally paranoid.

Well... when your father, who is supposed to protect, raise, and love you subjects you to corporal punishment every night simply for being a child... how can you really trust anyone?

> > We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> The poem is contradictory as well as cliched in a "may the road rise up to meet you" kind of way. We wonder if George Dance read over his poem to see if it actually made sense:
>

"Go n-éirí an bóthar leat," or may you find success upon the road of life.

I love the translation. Yes, it makes no sense -- but that's part of the beauty of it. Wherever you go, may you not have to weary yourself, but may the road you walk upon rise up to provide your every step before your foot is raised. It also implies that as you ascend to greater heights, may the road you walk on rise with you so that you might never fall. I'm sure there are many other ways of interpreting it as well.

That's one of the wonderful things about poetic language: it can have meanings that seem obvious when we read them, but that make no literal sense when examined in the light of reason.

As to its being clichéd, I am not opposed to some cliché in poetry. Cliché can serve to lull the reader into a comforting sense of familiarity -- only to shake them out of it with an original phrase or thought.. Cliché only becomes problematic when it is the overriding character of the poem.

There are only so many words in the English language -- estimates vary, but in the area of 600,000 seems to be the generally accepted range -- of which most people are only familiar with about 40,000 (or, as in the case of our resident Donkey... 40). There are only so many ways to combine the that make sense -- just as there are only so many similes and metaphors one can make when observing a rose that readers can recognize and respond to.

Solomon taught that "there is no new thing under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9), and this applies to language as well. What matters is that the words speak to readers -- that they express some thought or feeling the reader may have had, but had not been able to put into words.

I particularly like this passage in George's poem -- although it is both clichéd and logically flawed:

"...may the good times you and I
Once had be points of light to journey by,
Like firelies upon a twilit lawn."

But while the comparison to fireflies might be a cliché, the idea of joyful memories as points of light to journey by is not. In combining an original sentiment with a clichéd comparison, George has tempered the line to make its more original idea appear familiar, and therefore, agreeable to the reader.

Logically, one would be hard pressed to journey with the flickering, and constantly moving, lights of fireflies as his guideposts -- but logic is not of import here. Like the Irish blessing, "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat," the line hints at many things that supersede and transcend logic. For instance, one's memories aren't set down immovably on a scroll. Memories are fluid, and changing, and often flicker up for a moment only to immediately fade away. In this sense the simile works perfectly -- and the speaker's wish that his lover navigate his/her life by such transient lights implies living with a feeling of free spiritedness -- of following the happy memories over and above a more rational, steady course.

> "[...] long after I am gone,
> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> Our memories;"
> In other words, don't ever forget me, even when I am dead and moldering. Always think of "me."
>
> But then he writes:
>
> "[...]
> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> [...]
> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,"
> But s/he has been cautioned to never forget the speaker, so how can s/he once more remember if s/he is always thinking of their memories? 'Tis a puzzlement.

That's an excellent point. Frankly, "Once more" is filler that serves no other purpose than to keep the meter. Filler is what turns a potentially great poetic idea into an amateurish piece of twaddle. Poe has said that every word in a poem should contribute to its intended effect or tone. No word should ever be superfluous -- but should compromise the poem were it to be removed.

99.999 of rhymed-metered poems written by amateurs are swimming in filler. And, along with gratuitous inversion, it is what makes experienced poets cringe at the thought of reading an amateur's work.

As you've noted, George's use of filler, here, has compromised the consistency of his poem's text. However, it is only a minor compromise. "May you always keep your thoughts upon our memories" needn't be taken quite so literally. "Always" could mean, for instance, at some point in each passing day.
> > If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> >
> > Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> And pigs are going to fly across the sky when George Dance accepts help.

He says that he's made some changes based upon previous comments that the poem had received, so perhaps he might do so again. The third stanza, in particular, was in need of a major overhaul.

And, while my opinion of George as a decent human being has been plummeting steadily ever since his defense of Pickles and NAMBLA, I still maintain that he is a highly skilled poet, and that his best poems can be perfect examples of their form. My only complaint with them is that their messages are invariably commonplace and middlebrow -- and that his Muse favors intellect over emotion. But that's a personal call based on my prejudices and preferences, and not necessarily a put-down of his work.

George Dance wrote:

> General-Zod wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Zod wrote:
>> >> George Dance wrote:
>
>> >>> Long may you live
>> >>>
>> >>> for K.K.
>> >>>
>> >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>> >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
>> >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>> >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
>> >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>> >>>
>> >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>> >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
>> >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>> >>> Long may you live.
>> >>>
>> >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>> >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>> >>> And on that future day when you must die,
>> >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>> >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>> >>> "Long may you live."
>>
>> >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>>
>> > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
>> In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.

> They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.

> I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative.. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:

> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

Good morning George, again, well put.

George Dance wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
>> Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Zod wrote:
>> >> George Dance wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Long may you live
>> >>>
>> >>> for K.K.
>> >>>
>> >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>> >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
>> >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>> >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
>> >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>> >>>
>> >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>> >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
>> >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>> >>> Long may you live.
>> >>>
>> >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>> >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>> >>> And on that future day when you must die,
>> >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>> >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>> >>> "Long may you live."
>>
>> >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>>
>> > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
>> In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.

> They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.

> I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative.. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:

> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

Ha ha ... again well put... G.D.

General-Zod wrote:

> George Dance wrote:

>> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
>>> Will Dockery wrote:
>>> > Zod wrote:
>>> >> George Dance wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Long may you live
>>> >>>
>>> >>> for K.K.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>>> >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
>>> >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>>> >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
>>> >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>>> >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
>>> >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>>> >>> Long may you live.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>>> >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>>> >>> And on that future day when you must die,
>>> >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>>> >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>>> >>> "Long may you live."
>>>
>>> >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>>>
>>> > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
>>> In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.

>> They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.

>> I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative.. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:

>> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

> Ha ha ... again well put... G.D.

Agreed.

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 12:22:12 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Zod wrote:
> > > >> George Dance wrote:
[edited]
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Long may you live
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > >
> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > >
> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> >
> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> >
> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.

I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.

> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.

> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
>
> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.

That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.

What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.
However, I will give you the link again:
https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:14:37 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 12:22:12 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Zod wrote:
> > > > >> George Dance wrote:
> [edited]
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> > > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> > > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> > > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> > > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > >
> > > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha..
> > > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > >
> > > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > >
> > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
>
> > We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
>
> I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
>

I cannot convince you that no malice exists -- irrational beliefs cannot be appealed to with logic.

> > We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
>
> > If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> >
> > Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
>
> That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
>
> What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.
>

That simply isn't true, George. In 2020 and 2021 I published several of your poems in "AYoS." I would not have published them had I thought that they were lousy.

Just because I call one or two of your poems "lousy" doesn't mean that some of your other poems aren't "excellent."

Your poetry has always been a hit-or-miss prospect for me.

I have stated, at least a dozen times, that I think you are a highly skilled poet -- though not a particularly talented one.

And, I have specified, nearly as many times, that by "talented" I mean possessing a natural ability to do something well. IOW: "Talented" is not a judgement call, but a reference to *how* one goes about the act of composing his/her poetry.

Regardless of whether one views my poetry as being any good, it is the result of a natural ability -- I basically take dictation from my Muse. My poems are usually written from start to finish, and are rarely revised (and then, only for minor corrections).

Your poetry is, IIRC, usually crafted over a long period of time, subject to many revisions, etc.

Whether your poetry is better than mine is not the point. My is the result of an inborn talent; whereas yours is the result of an acquired skill.

I have said this when we were "allies" against PJR and his friends; I have said this when we were at odds over Pickles, Ginsberg, and pedophilia; I have said this when I was trying to convince you, NancyGene, Jim, and others to get along; and I am saying it now.

Regarding the overall quality of your work, I have again, often stated, that I think you usually write excellent poetry within established forms and genres, and expressing (well) fairly commonplace thoughts. Much as Ms. Rossetti's poem would have been better for me had it broken (and/or defied) the bounds of conventional thought, I feel that your poetry could stand improvement in that area as well.

Insofar as working within conventional genres/forms/messages is concerned, I think your poetry could often be cited as a perfect example of its type. I may prefer a flawed poem that goes against convention, but I respect your compositional skill and attempt to judge your poetry (indeed, all poetry) on its own terms.

That said, "My Father's House" remains a lousy poem.

On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:14:37 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 12:22:12 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Zod wrote:
> > > > >> George Dance wrote:
> [edited]
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> > > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> > > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> > > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> > > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > >
> > > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha..
> > > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > >
> > > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > >
> > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
>
> > We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
>
> I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
>
> > We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
>
> > If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> >
> > Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
>
> That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
>
> What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.
>
> However, I will give you the link again:
> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

Good afternoon, you nailed it, George.

🙂

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 11:13:08 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 9:14:37 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 12:22:12 PM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Zod wrote:
> > > > > >> George Dance wrote:
> > [edited]
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Long may you live
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> > > > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> > > > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> > > > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> > > > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > > >
> > > > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > > >
> > > > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> > > > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > > >
> > > > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > > >
> > > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> >
> > > We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> >
> > I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
> >
> I cannot convince you that no malice exists -- irrational beliefs cannot be appealed to with logic.
> > > We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> >
> > > If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> > >
> > > Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> >
> > That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
> >
> > What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that..
> >
> That simply isn't true, George. In 2020 and 2021 I published several of your poems in "AYoS." I would not have published them had I thought that they were lousy.
>
> Just because I call one or two of your poems "lousy" doesn't mean that some of your other poems aren't "excellent."
>
> Your poetry has always been a hit-or-miss prospect for me.
>
> I have stated, at least a dozen times, that I think you are a highly skilled poet -- though not a particularly talented one.
>
> And, I have specified, nearly as many times, that by "talented" I mean possessing a natural ability to do something well. IOW: "Talented" is not a judgement call, but a reference to *how* one goes about the act of composing his/her poetry.
>
> Regardless of whether one views my poetry as being any good, it is the result of a natural ability -- I basically take dictation from my Muse. My poems are usually written from start to finish, and are rarely revised (and then, only for minor corrections).
>
> Your poetry is, IIRC, usually crafted over a long period of time, subject to many revisions, etc.
>
> Whether your poetry is better than mine is not the point. My is the result of an inborn talent; whereas yours is the result of an acquired skill.
>
> I have said this when we were "allies" against PJR and his friends; I have said this when we were at odds over Pickles, Ginsberg, and pedophilia; I have said this when I was trying to convince you, NancyGene, Jim, and others to get along; and I am saying it now.
>
> Regarding the overall quality of your work, I have again, often stated, that I think you usually write excellent poetry within established forms and genres, and expressing (well) fairly commonplace thoughts. Much as Ms. Rossetti's poem would have been better for me had it broken (and/or defied) the bounds of conventional thought, I feel that your poetry could stand improvement in that area as well.
>
> Insofar as working within conventional genres/forms/messages is concerned, I think your poetry could often be cited as a perfect example of its type.. I may prefer a flawed poem that goes against convention, but I respect your compositional skill and attempt to judge your poetry (indeed, all poetry) on its own terms.
>
> That said, "My Father's House" remains a lousy poem.

More desultory notes on "Talent vs Skill."

"Talent" means that an individual possesses a natural, or God-given, ability to do something exceptionally well.

The word has become bastardized over the years by common usage, until it has come to mean, at least in the vernacular, that someone does something exceptionally well.

To best illustrate my point, I'm going to present a fictional parable about twin brothers, who we'll call George and Michael.

When Michael was three years old, it was discovered that he possessed a natural talent for playing the piano. He could here a song on the radio once, and play the melody by ear. George, otoh, did not possess this talent, but sibling rivalry being what it is, he desperately wanted to play the piano as good as (if not better than) his brother.

When the boys were 6 years old, their parents paid for them to take piano lessons. Michael found the beginner level exercises to be ridiculously easy, could learn a scale after having watched the teacher play it once, and was playing at a much higher level than they they were being taught. Consequently, he spent little-to-no time practicing each week; but continued to play at his own level.

George, otoh, found the exercises difficult, and spent several hours each day practicing them over and over again until he was able to play them perfectly.

As the years past, both boys gained a reputation for being exceptional pianists.

And, although Michael could play a difficult piece by ear, while George required weeks of serious practice to get it right, the end result was the same. Each boy played it every bit as well as the other.

When their graduation was coming up, their piano instructor encouraged them both to participate in a regional contest. The contest required them to compose and play an original piece. Michael wrote his piece in under an hour, and didn't bother practicing it. George spent a month on his piece, changing, rearranging, and improving it every day. At the contest, both young men played exceptionally well -- so well that none of the other contestants were even considered for the prize.

On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 11:36:24 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 6:38:59 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Friday, March 31, 2023 at 4:22:12 PM UTC, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 5:24:22 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 4:35:13 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > > > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > Zod wrote:
> > > > > >> George Dance wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Long may you live
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> for K.K.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > > > >>> And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > > > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > > > >>> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> > > > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > > > >>> And living life complete: a day to try,
> > > > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > > > >>> And on that future day when you must die,
> > > > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > > >
> > > > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > > >
> > > > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> > > > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > > >
> > > > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > > >
> > > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> > > We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> > George Dance is terminally paranoid.
> Well... when your father, who is supposed to protect, raise, and love you subjects you to corporal punishment every night simply for being a child.... how can you really trust anyone?
> > > We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> > The poem is contradictory as well as cliched in a "may the road rise up to meet you" kind of way. We wonder if George Dance read over his poem to see if it actually made sense:
> >
> "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat," or may you find success upon the road of life.
>
> I love the translation. Yes, it makes no sense -- but that's part of the beauty of it. Wherever you go, may you not have to weary yourself, but may the road you walk upon rise up to provide your every step before your foot is raised. It also implies that as you ascend to greater heights, may the road you walk on rise with you so that you might never fall. I'm sure there are many other ways of interpreting it as well.
>
> That's one of the wonderful things about poetic language: it can have meanings that seem obvious when we read them, but that make no literal sense when examined in the light of reason.
>
> As to its being clichéd, I am not opposed to some cliché in poetry. Cliché can serve to lull the reader into a comforting sense of familiarity -- only to shake them out of it with an original phrase or thought. Cliché only becomes problematic when it is the overriding character of the poem.
>
> There are only so many words in the English language -- estimates vary, but in the area of 600,000 seems to be the generally accepted range -- of which most people are only familiar with about 40,000 (or, as in the case of our resident Donkey... 40). There are only so many ways to combine the that make sense -- just as there are only so many similes and metaphors one can make when observing a rose that readers can recognize and respond to.
>
> Solomon taught that "there is no new thing under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9), and this applies to language as well. What matters is that the words speak to readers -- that they express some thought or feeling the reader may have had, but had not been able to put into words.
>
> I particularly like this passage in George's poem -- although it is both clichéd and logically flawed:
>
> "...may the good times you and I
> Once had be points of light to journey by,
> Like firelies upon a twilit lawn."
> But while the comparison to fireflies might be a cliché, the idea of joyful memories as points of light to journey by is not. In combining an original sentiment with a clichéd comparison, George has tempered the line to make its more original idea appear familiar, and therefore, agreeable to the reader.
>
> Logically, one would be hard pressed to journey with the flickering, and constantly moving, lights of fireflies as his guideposts -- but logic is not of import here. Like the Irish blessing, "Go n-éirí an bóthar leat," the line hints at many things that supersede and transcend logic.. For instance, one's memories aren't set down immovably on a scroll. Memories are fluid, and changing, and often flicker up for a moment only to immediately fade away. In this sense the simile works perfectly -- and the speaker's wish that his lover navigate his/her life by such transient lights implies living with a feeling of free spiritedness -- of following the happy memories over and above a more rational, steady course.
> > "[...] long after I am gone,
> > And may you always keep your thoughts upon
> > Our memories;"
> > In other words, don't ever forget me, even when I am dead and moldering.. Always think of "me."
> >
> > But then he writes:
> >
> > "[...]
> > True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > [...]
> > Once more may you remember me, and sigh,"
> > But s/he has been cautioned to never forget the speaker, so how can s/he once more remember if s/he is always thinking of their memories? 'Tis a puzzlement.
> That's an excellent point. Frankly, "Once more" is filler that serves no other purpose than to keep the meter. Filler is what turns a potentially great poetic idea into an amateurish piece of twaddle. Poe has said that every word in a poem should contribute to its intended effect or tone. No word should ever be superfluous -- but should compromise the poem were it to be removed.
>
> 99.999 of rhymed-metered poems written by amateurs are swimming in filler.. And, along with gratuitous inversion, it is what makes experienced poets cringe at the thought of reading an amateur's work.
>
> As you've noted, George's use of filler, here, has compromised the consistency of his poem's text. However, it is only a minor compromise. "May you always keep your thoughts upon our memories" needn't be taken quite so literally. "Always" could mean, for instance, at some point in each passing day..
> > > If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> > >
> > > Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> > And pigs are going to fly across the sky when George Dance accepts help..
> He says that he's made some changes based upon previous comments that the poem had received, so perhaps he might do so again. The third stanza, in particular, was in need of a major overhaul.
>
> And, while my opinion of George as a decent human being has been plummeting steadily ever since his defense of Pickles and NAMBLA, I still maintain that he is a highly skilled poet, and that his best poems can be perfect examples of their form. My only complaint with them is that their messages are invariably commonplace and middlebrow -- and that his Muse favors intellect over emotion. But that's a personal call based on my prejudices and preferences, and not necessarily a put-down of his work.
>

George Dance wrote:

> Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>> George Dance wrote:
>> > Will Dockery wrote:
>> >> Zod wrote:
>> >>> George Dance wrote:
> [edited]
>
>> > > >>> Long may you live
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>> > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
>> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>> > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
>> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>> > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
>> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>> > > >>> Long may you live.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>> > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
>> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>> > > >>> "Long may you live."
>> > >
>> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>> > >
>> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
>> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
>> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
>> >
>> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
>> >
>> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

>> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.

> I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.

>> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.

>> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
>>
>> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.

> That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.

> What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.

> However, I will give you the link again:
> https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html

Yes, Pendragon is blatantly shallow about his biased poetry criticism.

And so it goes.

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 9:50:14 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> George Dance wrote:
>
> > Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> >> George Dance wrote:
> >> > Will Dockery wrote:
> >> >> Zod wrote:
> >> >>> George Dance wrote:
> > [edited]
> >
> >> > > >>> Long may you live
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> >> > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> >> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> >> > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> >> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> >> > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> >> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> >> > > >>> Long may you live.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> >> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> >> > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> >> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> >> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> >> > > >>> "Long may you live."
> >> > >
> >> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> >> > >
> >> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> >> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> >> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> >> >
> >> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> >> >
> >> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
>
> >> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> > I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
> >> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> >> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> >>
> >> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> > That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
>
> > What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that..
> > However, I will give you the link again:
> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> Yes, Pendragon is blatantly shallow about his biased poetry criticism.

It is neither shallow nor biased to point out that a poet is incapable of composing his poem in complete sentences, or that he makes idiotic mistakes like having his speaker look down at the street below from a first floor window.

You are an incompetent writer.

Your poetry is unintelligible as a result of your incompetence.

That's not an opinion, but a fact which your writing continually bears out.

Go back to school and learn how to write. Take free English courses online..

You can't write a poem if you have a vocabulary of only 2,000 words and don't know how to construct a sentence out of them.

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 10:28:23 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 9:50:14 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> > George Dance wrote:
> >
> > > Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > >> George Dance wrote:
> > >> > Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> >> Zod wrote:
> > >> >>> George Dance wrote:
> > > [edited]
> > >
> > >> > > >>> Long may you live
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > >> > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> > >> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > >> > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> > >> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > >> > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> > >> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > >> > > >>> Long may you live.
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > >> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > >> > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> > >> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > >> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > >> > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > >> > >
> > >> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > >> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> > >> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > >> >
> > >> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > >> >
> > >> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> >
> > >> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> > > I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
> > >> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> > >> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> > >>
> > >> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> > > That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
> >
> > > What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.
> > > However, I will give you the link again:
> > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> > Yes, Pendragon is blatantly shallow about his biased poetry criticism.
> It is neither shallow nor biased

I didn't expect you to admit it, Pendragon, you delusional fuckwit.

And so it goes.

🙂

On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 11:15:17 AM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 10:28:23 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 9:50:14 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> > > George Dance wrote:
> > >
> > > > Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > > >> George Dance wrote:
> > > >> > Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> >> Zod wrote:
> > > >> >>> George Dance wrote:
> > > > [edited]
> > > >
> > > >> > > >>> Long may you live
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
> > > >> > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
> > > >> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
> > > >> > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
> > > >> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
> > > >> > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
> > > >> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
> > > >> > > >>> Long may you live.
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
> > > >> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
> > > >> > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
> > > >> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
> > > >> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
> > > >> > > >>> "Long may you live."
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
> > > >> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
> > > >> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> > >
> > > >> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
> > > > I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
> > > >> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
> > > >> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
> > > >>
> > > >> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
> > > > That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
> > >
> > > > What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.
> > > > However, I will give you the link again:
> > > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
> > > Yes, Pendragon is blatantly shallow about his biased poetry criticism..
> > It is neither shallow nor biased to point out that a poet is incapable of composing his poem in complete sentences, or that he makes idiotic mistakes like having his
> > speaker look down at the street below from a first floor window.
> >
> > You are an incompetent writer.
> >
> > Your poetry is unintelligible as a result of your incompetence.
> >
> > That's not an opinion, but a fact which your writing continually bears out.
> >
> > Go back to school and learn how to write. Take free English courses online.
> >
> > You can't write a poem if you have a vocabulary of only 2,000 words and don't know how to construct a sentence out of them.
> I didn't expect you to admit it, Pendragon, you delusional fuckwit.
>
> And so it goes.

That's okay, Donkey. I didn't expect you to go back to school.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 11:15:17 AM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 10:28:23 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 9:50:14 AM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
>> > > George Dance wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
>> > > >> George Dance wrote:
>> > > >> > Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > >> >> Zod wrote:
>> > > >> >>> George Dance wrote:
>> > > > [edited]
>> > > >
>> > > >> > > >>> Long may you live
>> > > >> > > >>>
>> > > >> > > >>> Long may you live, long after I am gone,
>> > > >> > > >>> And may you always [fix] your thoughts upon
>> > > >> > > >>> Our memories; may the good times you and I
>> > > >> > > >>> [Enjoyed] be points of light to journey by,
>> > > >> > > >>> Like fireflies upon a twilit lawn.
>> > > >> > > >>>
>> > > >> > > >>> May each day find you welcoming the dawn
>> > > >> > > >>> And living life complete: [each] day to try,
>> > > >> > > >>> To win, to celebrate with your head high.
>> > > >> > > >>> Long may you live.
>> > > >> > > >>>
>> > > >> > > >>> May you walk in righteousness through Babylon,
>> > > >> > > >>> True to yourself, not anybody's pawn;
>> > > >> > > >>> And on that [far-off] day when you must die,
>> > > >> > > >>> Once more may you remember me, and sigh,
>> > > >> > > >>> And leave a wish for those who carry on:
>> > > >> > > >>> "Long may you live."
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > >> Good one, G.D.... kudos...!!
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > Agreed, NancyGene is doing a great job bringing these poems out of the archives.
>> > > >> > > In other words Nancy G's troll gambit blew up in her face.... ha ha.
>> > > >> > They're doing their best. If they keep googling the archives for posts by me labelled "c&c," they're bound to find some clunkers to try to embarrass me with. The downside, of course, is they're also going to find some very good poems, like this one. In the process, they're going to turn up evidence of how aapc used to be in a much better time.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I've been reading the thread and enjoying the responses -- not just the praise, but also the criticism, which is all constructive rather than negative. No bleating about how it's "not a poem!", just attention to faulty lines. Which meant I listened to them, and ended up with an even better poem in the end:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
>> > >
>> > > >> We aren't trying to find lousy poems by you, George. You really need to stop seeing everyone as your enemy and every post as a personal attack.
>> > > > I don't see "everyone" as my enemy, Michael. I do tend to see those who make posts falsely accusing me of "seeing everyone as your enemy" or telling other lies about me as acting as enemies, and their posts as personal attacks. Now, if you want to convince me that I "need to get over" seeing such people that way, go ahead and try.
>> > > >> We are attempting to reclaim AAPC as a *poetry discussion group* by critiquing and/or commenting on various poems. NancyGene obviously didn't care for your poem. My comments from six years ago were that it had some excellent moments, but needed more work.
>> > > >> If you post your corrected version in this thread, I can compare it with the original and see if I think any of the changes helped.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Since NancyGene finds it clichéd, I could go over the revised version with that in mind -- and hopefully help you to eliminate some.
>> > > > That sounds like a waste of time. I've edited the poem above, and little has changed in it.
>> > >
>> > > > What has changed is that, in 2015, you saw me as an "ally," so my poems were "excellent." Now, in 2023, you see me as an "adversary," so now my poems are "lousy." There's no need for me to repost the poem to discover that.
>> > > > However, I will give you the link again:
>> > > > https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-may-you-live-george-j-dance.html
>> > > Yes, Pendragon is blatantly shallow about his biased poetry criticism..
>> > It is neither shallow nor biased to point out that a poet is incapable of composing his poem in complete sentences, or that he makes idiotic mistakes like having his
>> > speaker look down at the street below from a first floor window.
>> >
>> > You are an incompetent writer.
>> >
>> > Your poetry is unintelligible as a result of your incompetence.
>> >
>> > That's not an opinion, but a fact which your writing continually bears out.
>> >
>> > Go back to school and learn how to write. Take free English courses online.
>> >
>> > You can't write a poem if you have a vocabulary of only 2,000 words and don't know how to construct a sentence out of them.
>> I didn't expect you to admit it, Pendragon, you delusional fuckwit.
>>
>> And so it goes.

> That's okay

Sure, I realize that you're probably just trolling, Pendragon.

Nobody could be such a delusional fuckwit as you portray yourself here, right?

🙂