Friends,

On 5/5/1994 ALUP was created by a certain Syed Zafar Kazm1 (see link below) but sadly none of us will be able to post in it from 22/02/2024. Fortunately, the saving grace is that all the memories will not be erased. We will still have the facilty to search for gems within the pages of this treasure trove.

ihttps://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/dupobJAv758/m/B6CkYz4q5YYJ

If any friends would like to read more about ALUP's early days, please take a look at the links below.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/ogW2laicQGM/m/4TTqSa22BwAJ

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/Pzvf6G411kA/m/Lv6EYpgZEAAJ

You will see that UVR SaaHib is one of the oldest and faithful members of this Group and it was his timely "intrusion" in BGM's thread that has brought a ray of hope for the continuation of ALUP, albeit at a differnt location..

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/_cqH4yjxV2c

In this thread, UVR SaaHib has come up with his thoughts on possible solutions for laying new foundations for ALUP. Amit Malhotra SaaHib has also come up with a suggestion and I propose to list them here along some pros and cons.

I am going to copy/paste UVR SaaHib's kind suggestions here.

"1.sab dostaan-e-ALUP, alt.language.urdu.poetry USENET newsgroup par hi post karte/paRhte raheN, aur iske liye koi aur USENET server aur client ist'emaal kareN. agar aap kaa yeh faisala hai, to Feb 24 ke ba'ad aap ne kisii server+client kaa soch rakha hai? agar haaN, to kaun se server/client kaa?

Advantage: the "home" (group) remains the same, a new "door" (new access method) has to be used.
Disadvantage: I don't know of any free alternatives to access USENET, but many ISPs do provide access, so you may already be paying for it and having access. Setting up your own newsgroups reader/poster software may be an easy task for some, and not so easy at all for others.

2. Google groups par koi nayaa maqaam aik naye group ki shakl meN qaa'im kiyaa jaaye -- yahaaN aane waale tamaam readers/posters/lurkers/... wahaaN kaa ruKh kareN. agar haaN to 15 saal qabl ek group Khaaksaar ne 2009 meN banaayaa thaa, shaayad isi din ke dhaRke se(!!!); chaheN to https://groups.google.com/g/alup par jaa kar subscribe kar leN.

Advantage: the familiar Google groups front end. Everyone posting here (on *this* ALUP) most likely already has an account using which they can subscribe and continue the discussions on *THAT* alup.
Disadvantage: who knows how long Google will let the fun continue?

3. Facebook, WhatsApp yaa aur kisi naye medium kaa ruKh kareN.
Facebook par bhi ek ALUP group hai jise aap https://www.facebook.com/groups/635636506554920/?ref=share_group_link par dekh sakte haiN (it has 43 members, is VERY low traffic; in fact, I don't recall seeing any posts/discussions in the last several months).

Advantage: take ALUP discussions into the 21st century. Most of us perhaps already use Facebook, WhatsApp etc.
Disadvantage: there is actually no way to do meaningful discussions on these media. I know, because I'm part of a few other groups (as I'm sure all of us are -- or a majority of us, at any rate) on both FB and WA. Still, the FB group is there already in case anyone wants to join."

I think and I hope you will agree with me, Option 1 can be discarded because apart from UVR, Amit Malhotra and Shoaib Tanvir SaaHibaan, none of us (that's me and Zoya SaaHibah :-)) are all that "au fait" with this technology.

Option 2. This is essentially identical in appearance but an updated version of the old ALUP group and it was created by a very far-sighted gentleman called UVR SaaHib in 2009, forseeing the calamity that is to befall us on 22/02/2024. I would find this Group the easiest to slide into but, as I have indicated earlier, one can't edit one's post and also one can't copy/paste from another source into this page.

https://groups.google.com/g/alup

Option 3. FB ALUP

https://www.facebook.com/groups/635636506554920/?ref=share_group_link

I have recently ventured into FB for the puprose of following my school FB page and have become acquainted with it. As UVR SaaHib points out, one can't really have a meaningful discussion in the FB format. Apparently, it is not "nesting friendly" but it is mobile friendly which Google Groups (Option 2) isn't, it seems.

Option 4. Discord

This is a Group that has been set up by Amit Malhotra SaaHib.

https://discord.com/invite/GNRgXPxqsW

On first sight, it looks quite a daunting site for a person used to the good old simple ALUP of days gone by:-) I am used to plain daal-roTii (old ALUP) where as Discord (new ALUP) has an assortment of dishes and like a child in a sweet shop, I don't know which one to go far. My suggestion (for people like me) would be to pick the main dish (general-urdu-poetry) and miss out the starters and afters until one has a good appetite. :-) I understand this is mobile friendly provided you download a certain gadget. (Shoaib Tanvir SaaHib is FOR Discord and is inviting friends to ty it out).

Here is a further summary of pros and cons for these options in UVR SaaHib's own words. His preference is FB but he is happy to go along with the majority.

"alup @ googlegroups:

Advantages:
1. Familiar interface, everyone who has been on Usenet ALUP knows how to get to Google Groups and interact there.
2. The same accounts can be used to read/post ensuring continuation of the same level (such as it might have been) of privacy, and anonymity.
3. Makes possible fully-featured threaded discussions on topics, just as we have on Usenet. This is a big one for me personally.
4. Google search capabilities can be utilized for looking up and retrieving old messages many many years after the fact.

Disadvantages:
1. NOT mobile-friendly. Very laptop/desktop-centric. This is a big one for me personally.
The full Google groups reading and posting experience is only available via the "desktop site" and is extremely unfriendly to phone or tablet devices. Over the ast several years, primary online engagement has moved to handheld devices, and anything that's "desktop-only" is liable to limit engagement..

2. Primarily "text-only". This is a big one for me personally too.
I increasingly find people sending, receiving, and engaging with more modern media like photos, videos, files, PDFs, and other non-text media. For example, sharing videos of sh'ora reciting their own verse. These are not easy to share or disseminate over the Google groups interface. Some alternatives ARE available -- for example, you can opt to receive all group messages in your inbox as emails, and then you can send those non-text media out using your email client. Readers can also do the same (receive all posts as emails). Personally, I don't like to receive these things as email, because I want to keep these things separate.

ALUP group on Facebook:

Advantages:
1. Fully multimedia capable -- if you like text-only, you can do that, if you want to share other things, you can do that too. A big one for me.
2. Very mobile-friendly: phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, ... use any device you like, and you'll get the same features. Another big one for me.
3. A number of us are already on that group.
4. (Facebook gets a bad rap, but) It's my experience that it's possible to set up your account so that you maintain the same level of anonymity as you can maintain at any other online site these days.

Disadvantages:
1. Facebook as a medium is highly polarizing.
People have strong feelings about using Facebook -- they either like it, or hate it. While a lot of us reading this may have FB accounts already, a number of us may be highly disinclined to create an account or to use their account which they already have to interact with ALUPers (e.g., they would like to only use it to contact their close friends and family).

2. Perception of FB as a "privacy violator".
Most often, the hatred/dislike stems from a (mistaken) feeling that Facebook does not make it possible to maintain your privacy and secrecy/anonymity online (this is false, it is possible to prevent others from seeing who you are and also blocking people from contacting or even seeing you. The blocking feature does not exist in Google groups to the best of my knowledge).

3. Poor support for multi-theaded deeply nested discussions. This is a big one for me.
The FB interface is not as advanced as Google Groups or Usenet to allow multiple threads of deeply nested discussions. FB threads are at most 1-level of nesting. That said, most of the time, this is not a hindrance; one learns to grow and adapt."

Below is copy/paste from Amit SaaHib's backing for Discord.

"Discord: The server is setup, feel free to give it a shot, whoever wants to. ST sahib is there. It's really not that complicated, very similar to Slack if you are used to slack. "Server" terminology is equivalent to "Workspace" terminology in Slack and then you have channels just like Slack and you can integrate all kind of apps in there. Has more of a community feel as you can do threading / forum post style channels, or just general chat channels. It's picked up a lot more as it doesn't have the same limitation as Slack has for free users. I use Slack extensively for work, so it was very easy to get on to Discord as almost all concepts are similar for end-users, differences are for admins, but didn't take me long to figure it out either. I totally hear you about "yet another chat platform!"

Hello all,

I just wanted to make sure this was up and visible. As Usenet support comes to an end on Google Group, there are a few options provided to where people can continue to discuss this beautiful topic. I just wanted to say that you don't have to chose one over other and you can join all three of those options in the original post by Naseer sahib and get involved with the community. I'm on all three of them, and will be lurking / participating as time permits. My personal preference would be to ditch the ALUP google group and join both Facebook and Discord. The latter server has been setup by me and is seeing fairly active contributions from a few of us already in terms of chat/discussions/posts.

So here are the two main options again.
Facebook ALUP
https://www.facebook.com/groups/635636506554920/?ref=share_group_link
Join it, whether you participate actively or not, there's no harm in joining the group and just keeping an eye on posts and have the ability to get in touch with folks, new and old, from ALUP.

ALUP on Discord:
Discord is a communication platform that allows you to connect with others through text, voice, and video. It's a great way to stay in touch with friends, family, or join communities with shared interests. I have setup the server as a place where Urdu poetry lovers can communicate with each other in addition the f
Facebook group above. To join it, simply create an account on Discord.com and once your account is created and you have a mobile or a desktop application installed, follow the invite link below to join the ALUP server.

https://discord.com/invite/GNRgXPxqsW

As facebook is a very commonly known social media platform, there's not much of a learning curve there, but Discord may be new to those not used to communication platform like it. If you have used Slack in your work setting or others, you will feel right at home with Discord, but if you have not, it's not too obvious as you start using it. I have prepared a small guide on how to get involved in ALUP on Discord, hope it will help eases the learning curve a bit. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-4ZdqvqLyjliDFtZQrMa84g3ykt_aqg2SkYA9bkPQ9A/edit?usp=sharing

See you on the other platforms!

Amit Malhotra

Spending a little time to get familiar with Discord is worth it. Amit sahib has set up a great gathering place for ALUP exiles and it carries none of the baggage associated with so-called social media platforms such as Facebook.

Turn the dark mode off in the Discord settings and suddenly it will not look too alien.

aaj 22/02/2024 ALUP kaa is maHfil meN aaxirii din hai.

ALUP ke shuruu3 karne vaaloN ko salaam

ALUP ke jaarii rakhne vaaloN ko salaam

ALUP ko sar-garm rakhne vaaloN ko salaam

ALUP kii yaadgaar hastiyoN ko salaam

ALUP kii xavaatiin ko salaam

ALUP ke xudaa ko pyaare hone vaaloN ko salaam

is maHfil meN agar mujh se ko'ii xataa, bad-tamiizii, bad-suluukii yaa be-adabii sarzad ho ga'ii ho to maiN is ke liye mu'3aafii kaa xvaast-gaar huuN.

yih ghar miraa gulshan hai, gulshan kaa xudaa Haafiz
allaah nighabaan, nasheman kaa xudaa Haafiz

naa-ma3luum

Naseer