For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away. All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.

Early this morning, I see Mr. Dockery posted this:

> Good morning George. As well you know, your boy Dockery is well known for 'correcting the record'.

> To date, your boy Dockery has not corrected the record of my claim that she ran away

Mr. Dockery: Yes I have, a dozen times.

"Katherine and I were divorced, and she passed away, but I wouldn't call either of those actions running."

That sentence seems so empty compared the pages we were fed in the autobiography.

"So, Senetto, how did the mother of your son leave you?"

"Did /she/ divorce you, die... or run away?"

"Since you are so obsessed with the details of my life, why not tell yours?"

I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.

Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.

So now, Dockery needs to go for the TforT on my life and I can only answer
by how my life couldn't be further away from the man that thinks of himself so highly, that we would need a day to day remembrance of his pitiful being.

So let's take a read on what I'm not, as compared to the life of Dockery.

I was never a drunk, drugged out husband offering a wife LSD while in the care of a young son.

I never had multiple moves, apartment to apartment, dragging a family along.

I never slept in a mill, for want of a cozy bed.

I never had in-laws think so low of me, that I wasn't told of where a
their daughter had gone.

My wife never concocted a move to Texas with a friend from work and left a son, with the in-laws for safe keeping.

My work record from '68' until this very morning, has been my own, started by me; my wife never worked a bar fearing what she would have to confront when done for the day.

I never had a wife and son live with my girlfriend of the moment, being in one room while I got it off in another, with another.

I never thought myself as a rock and roll guy at the top of the charts.

I never received a Perky but have had my praise for not only the work I do, whether on the job or with my artistic ventures.

I've never climbed on stage bellowing "Zorro' to some folks waving their bottled beers.

If anyone would like to compare my life to Docker's feel free.

My wife never ran away, was never treated as some young whore, was never offered LSD and was never moved to several locations where there was little time to hang some art or family portraits.

I have two sons, one daughter, five grandchildren, two great-grand children.

None of the above are in jail, all the adults work.

There is no need to say 'love me' in some odd poetry group.

Dockery asked if the wife is dead..my answer was out of 'Fargo',
I stuffed her in a wood chipper, the rest is no ones business but she remains healthy and alive.

So the life I lead is very much polar opposites of the Dockery's shattered live.

I say once again, Dockery's wife ran away, was once in a mental facility and
unfortunately died of cancer.

I also say, as far as I'm concerned, Dockery didn't help her have any kind of life that would be envied by anyone.

I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.

I wouldn't want to be Dockery for all the gold in the world.

I'll repeat his statement:

"Katherine and I were divorced, and she passed away, but I wouldn't call either of those actions running."

How horrible a summation.

Thanks for reading

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away. All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
>
>
> Early this morning, I see Mr. Dockery posted this:
>
>
> > Good morning George. As well you know, your boy Dockery is well known for 'correcting the record'.
>
> > To date, your boy Dockery has not corrected the record of my claim that she ran away
>
> Mr. Dockery: Yes I have, a dozen times.
>
> "Katherine and I were divorced, and she passed away, but I wouldn't call either of those actions running."
>
> That sentence seems so empty compared the pages we were fed in the autobiography.
>
> "So, Senetto, how did the mother of your son leave you?"
>
> "Did /she/ divorce you, die... or run away?"
>
> "Since you are so obsessed with the details of my life, why not tell yours?"
>
>
>
> I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
>
> Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.
>
> So now, Dockery needs to go for the TforT on my life and I can only answer
> by how my life couldn't be further away from the man that thinks of himself so highly, that we would need a day to day remembrance of his pitiful being.
>
> So let's take a read on what I'm not, as compared to the life of Dockery.
>
> I was never a drunk, drugged out husband offering a wife LSD while in the care of a young son.
>
> I never had multiple moves, apartment to apartment, dragging a family along.
>
> I never slept in a mill, for want of a cozy bed.
>
> I never had in-laws think so low of me, that I wasn't told of where a
> their daughter had gone.
>
> My wife never concocted a move to Texas with a friend from work and left a son, with the in-laws for safe keeping.
>
> My work record from '68' until this very morning, has been my own, started by me; my wife never worked a bar fearing what she would have to confront when done for the day.
>
> I never had a wife and son live with my girlfriend of the moment, being in one room while I got it off in another, with another.
>
> I never thought myself as a rock and roll guy at the top of the charts.
>
> I never received a Perky but have had my praise for not only the work I do, whether on the job or with my artistic ventures.
>
> I've never climbed on stage bellowing "Zorro' to some folks waving their bottled beers.
>
> If anyone would like to compare my life to Docker's feel free.
>
> My wife never ran away, was never treated as some young whore, was never offered LSD and was never moved to several locations where there was little time to hang some art or family portraits.
>
> I have two sons, one daughter, five grandchildren, two great-grand children.
>
> None of the above are in jail, all the adults work.
>
> There is no need to say 'love me' in some odd poetry group.
>
> Dockery asked if the wife is dead..my answer was out of 'Fargo',
> I stuffed her in a wood chipper, the rest is no ones business but she remains healthy and alive.
>
> So the life I lead is very much polar opposites of the Dockery's shattered live.
>
> I say once again, Dockery's wife ran away, was once in a mental facility and
> unfortunately died of cancer.
>
> I also say, as far as I'm concerned, Dockery didn't help her have any kind of life that would be envied by anyone.
>
> I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.
>
> I wouldn't want to be Dockery for all the gold in the world.
>
> I'll repeat his statement:
>
>
> "Katherine and I were divorced, and she passed away, but I wouldn't call either of those actions running."
>
>
> How horrible a summation.
>
> Thanks for reading

You never planned on running off to Canada in order to avoid having to pay alimony and child support.

None of your children are serving 20 year prison sentences for the sexual exploitation of a minor.

You never lived off of your mentally disabled brother's disability check.

You own more than one pair of pants and wash regularly.

You were never morbidly obese.

You have a life outside of AAPC.

Your wife didn't leave you because your son read one of your poems about performing cunnilingus on a co-worker.

You don't frequent $5 whores.

You've never scammed anyone into buying you a steak dinner.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 8:42:40 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away. All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> >
> >
> > Early this morning, I see Mr. Dockery posted this:
> >
> >
> > > Good morning George. As well you know, your boy Dockery is well known for 'correcting the record'.
> >
> > > To date, your boy Dockery has not corrected the record of my claim that she ran away
> >
> > Mr. Dockery: Yes I have, a dozen times.
> >
> > "Katherine and I were divorced, and she passed away, but I wouldn't call either of those actions running."
> >
> > That sentence seems so empty compared the pages we were fed in the autobiography.
> >
> > "So, Senetto, how did the mother of your son leave you?"
> >
> > "Did /she/ divorce you, die... or run away?"
> >
> > "Since you are so obsessed with the details of my life, why not tell yours?"
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
> >
> > Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.
> >
> > So now, Dockery needs to go for the TforT on my life and I can only answer
> > by how my life couldn't be further away from the man that thinks of himself so highly, that we would need a day to day remembrance of his pitiful being.
> >
> > So let's take a read on what I'm not, as compared to the life of Dockery.
> >
> > I was never a drunk, drugged out husband offering a wife LSD while in the care of a young son.
> >
> > I never had multiple moves, apartment to apartment, dragging a family along.
> >
> > I never slept in a mill, for want of a cozy bed.
> >
> > I never had in-laws think so low of me, that I wasn't told of where a
> > their daughter had gone.
> >
> > My wife never concocted a move to Texas with a friend from work and left a son, with the in-laws for safe keeping.
> >
> > My work record from '68' until this very morning, has been my own, started by me; my wife never worked a bar fearing what she would have to confront when done for the day.
> >
> > I never had a wife and son live with my girlfriend of the moment, being in one room while I got it off in another, with another.
> >
> > I never thought myself as a rock and roll guy at the top of the charts.
> >
> > I never received a Perky but have had my praise for not only the work I do, whether on the job or with my artistic ventures.
> >
> > I've never climbed on stage bellowing "Zorro' to some folks waving their bottled beers.
> >
> > If anyone would like to compare my life to Docker's feel free.
> >
> > My wife never ran away, was never treated as some young whore, was never offered LSD and was never moved to several locations where there was little time to hang some art or family portraits.
> >
> > I have two sons, one daughter, five grandchildren, two great-grand children.
> >
> > None of the above are in jail, all the adults work.
> >
> > There is no need to say 'love me' in some odd poetry group.
> >
> > Dockery asked if the wife is dead..my answer was out of 'Fargo',
> > I stuffed her in a wood chipper, the rest is no ones business but she remains healthy and alive.
> >
> > So the life I lead is very much polar opposites of the Dockery's shattered live.
> >
> > I say once again, Dockery's wife ran away, was once in a mental facility and
> > unfortunately died of cancer.
> >
> > I also say, as far as I'm concerned, Dockery didn't help her have any kind of life that would be envied by anyone.
> >
> > I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.
> >
> > I wouldn't want to be Dockery for all the gold in the world.
> >
> > I'll repeat his statement:
> >
> >
> > "Katherine and I were divorced, and she passed away, but I wouldn't call either of those actions running."
> >
> >
> > How horrible a summation.
> >
> > Thanks for reading
> You never planned on running off to Canada in order to avoid having to pay alimony and child support.
>
> None of your children are serving 20 year prison sentences for the sexual exploitation of a minor.
>
> You never lived off of your mentally disabled brother's disability check.
>
> You own more than one pair of pants and wash regularly.
>
> You were never morbidly obese.
>
> You have a life outside of AAPC.
>
> Your wife didn't leave you because your son read one of your poems about performing cunnilingus on a co-worker.
>
> You don't frequent $5 whores.
>
> You've never scammed anyone into buying you a steak dinner.

I've never even altered a photo to see someone's eyes.

Thanks Michael.

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.

No, what I said to you was: "Well, you've only been working on the story six years, ace reporter "Edward Rochester" -- I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it in another six or so. At least you have a title -- so let's start with that. On what do you base your claim that his wife "ran away"?" I didn't call you a liar for that, but I will call you a liar now for pretending that I did.

> All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
When I asked you, you told me to read the "autobiography". Now you're claiming that you didn't mean the one on PPP, but some other version which supposedly was written "for the general public" but which you haven't produced for anyone else to read.

> I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
>
Again, that contradicts the Bio. Most of what he wrote there was in fact answers to questions by you and "Michael Pendragon" who were interviewing him for your own article(s).

> Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.

The question is, what did you "repeat" them from? Not from Will's account in the Bio. I suspect that you and your fiction writer friend made them up, and that in fact you did lie. But I'm willing to wait, ask you and your fiction-writing "colleague" to back up yourstory, and pronounce you a liar only after you both come up empty-handed.

snip for focus

>
> I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.
>

Actually, when you began dragging Kathy through the mud (in Dec. 2017) you berated Will for writing details earlier; but you kept on incessantly writing about her (as you're still doing).

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:34:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> No, what I said to you was: "Well, you've only been working on the story six years, ace reporter "Edward Rochester" -- I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it in another six or so. At least you have a title -- so let's start with that. On what do you base your claim that his wife "ran away"?" I didn't call you a liar for that, but I will call you a liar now for pretending that I did.
>

What makes you think Jim is referring to that particular post, George?

You have recently said that Jim has been making up stories (i.e., lying) about Kathy's having run away -- and accused me of repeating Jim's stories.

IMHO, you were calling both of us liars -- which is why we have been re-examining the story over the past few days.

> > All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> When I asked you, you told me to read the "autobiography". Now you're claiming that you didn't mean the one on PPP, but some other version which supposedly was written "for the general public" but which you haven't produced for anyone else to read.
>

The autobiography that Jim and I read on PPP in the past (and were referring to), now exists only in a largely rewritten form.

Will may have saved the older versions (though I highly doubt it), but Jim and I certainly had no reason to.

> > I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
> >
> Again, that contradicts the Bio. Most of what he wrote there was in fact answers to questions by you and "Michael Pendragon" who were interviewing him for your own article(s).
>

I should call that a lie, but I'll remain civil and say that you are mistaken.

When Will's autobiography first appeared, he and I were still (in my opinion) friends. I thought that his autobiography depicted him as an amoral, misogynistic, self-centered piece of redneck trailer trash, told him not to be so forthcoming with the sordid details, and suggested that he rewrite it in a much less self-condemnatory manner.

I was certainly not "interviewing him for (my) own article."

I don't see how it should matter that Will's revisions came about in response to discussions with Jim and myself -- except that Mr. Paranoid Conspiracy-Theorist Dance wants to pretend that it was all an insidious plot to pry personal information out of Will for use in our own "articles."

Yet again one is brought to the eternally recurring question of WTF is wrong with you, George Dance?

> > Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.
> The question is, what did you "repeat" them from? Not from Will's account in the Bio. I suspect that you and your fiction writer friend made them up, and that in fact you did lie. But I'm willing to wait, ask you and your fiction-writing "colleague" to back up yourstory, and pronounce you a liar only after you both come up empty-handed.
>

"Your story" should be presented as two words, George.

As noted above: Will revised his autobiography several times in response to discussions with both Jim and myself. The older version of this no longer exist.

> snip for focus
> >
> > I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.
> >
> Actually, when you began dragging Kathy through the mud (in Dec. 2017) you berated Will for writing details earlier; but you kept on incessantly writing about her (as you're still doing).
>

Actually, you were dragging her through the mud this morning when you falsely claimed that her disappearance came about when instead of coming home to her husband and son after work, she went to a friend's party and did so many heavy duty drugs that she seemed "blanked out crazy."

I sincerely hope your proverbial tail is firmly tucked between your legs... again.

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:34:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > No, what I said to you was: "Well, you've only been working on the story six years, ace reporter "Edward Rochester" -- I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it in another six or so. At least you have a title -- so let's start with that. On what do you base your claim that his wife "ran away"?" I didn't call you a liar for that, but I will call you a liar now for pretending that I did.
> >
> What makes you think Jim is referring to that particular post, George?
>
> You have recently said that Jim has been making up stories (i.e., lying) about Kathy's having run away -- and accused me of repeating Jim's stories.

I've told both of you that I don't believe those stories of yours, and asked you to back them up. The above is your "colleague's" response; to open another thread complaining that I'd questioned him. Yours has been to say that, while you had sources at one time, they've all disappeared. So, yes, I still don't believe either of you.
>
> IMHO, you were calling both of us liars -- which is why we have been re-examining the story over the past few days.

What neither of you have done, is back up any of your claims that I've questioned:
(1) Your claim that Will's wife had run away from him previously, in the spring of 1981;
(2) Your claim that she ran away in December, and sheltered at the home of Melody and Andy Hernandez for a month;
(3) Your claim that, while at the Hernandez residence, she made plans to go to Mexico with them, and live there under an assumed name.

Once again, I'll tell you as politely as I can that I don't believe any of those claims, won't take either of your words for them, and would like to see your sources for them. If you two want to call that "calling you a liar," that's very fine, but it only looks like the two of you stonewalling on my requests.

> > > All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > When I asked you, you told me to read the "autobiography". Now you're claiming that you didn't mean the one on PPP, but some other version which supposedly was written "for the general public" but which you haven't produced for anyone else to read.
> >
> The autobiography that Jim and I read on PPP in the past (and were referring to), now exists only in a largely rewritten form.
>
> Will may have saved the older versions (though I highly doubt it), but Jim and I certainly had no reason to.

> > > I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
> > >
> > Again, that contradicts the Bio. Most of what he wrote there was in fact answers to questions by you and "Michael Pendragon" who were interviewing him for your own article(s).
> >
> I should call that a lie, but I'll remain civil and say that you are mistaken.

You do know that both of you are named and quoted in the Bio, right?

>
> When Will's autobiography first appeared, he and I were still (in my opinion) friends. I thought that his autobiography depicted him as an amoral, misogynistic, self-centered piece of redneck trailer trash, told him not to be so forthcoming with the sordid details, and suggested that he rewrite it in a much less self-condemnatory manner.
>
> I was certainly not "interviewing him for (my) own article."
I said you were interviewing him for the Chimp's multiple NGBS articles over the year -- which, considering I just found out you were helping him with those, I'll continue to call "your" articles. Meaning that you're as responsible for their contents as he is.

> I don't see how it should matter that Will's revisions came about in response to discussions with Jim and myself -- except that Mr. Paranoid Conspiracy-Theorist Dance wants to pretend that it was all an insidious plot to pry personal information out of Will for use in our own "articles."
>
> Yet again one is brought to the eternally recurring question of WTF is wrong with you, George Dance?

You can't supply any sources for the many stories you two have written here on aapc about Will's wife running away from him -- so instead you start lashing out and insulting. It's hardly a "conspiracy" that you two have been trying to pry information about Will to use in your own "articles" about him here -- you're currently doing just that in three different threads, this being one of them.

> > > Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.
> > The question is, what did you "repeat" them from? Not from Will's account in the Bio. I suspect that you and your fiction writer friend made them up, and that in fact you did lie. But I'm willing to wait, ask you and your fiction-writing "colleague" to back up yourstory, and pronounce you a liar only after you both come up empty-handed.
> >
> "Your story" should be presented as two words, George.
> As noted above: Will revised his autobiography several times in response to discussions with both Jim and myself. The older version of this no longer exist.

If they were on PPP, the earlier versions still exist. Is that what you claim is your source for the above claims?

> > snip for focus

> > > I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.
> > >
> > Actually, when you began dragging Kathy through the mud (in Dec. 2017) you berated Will for writing details earlier; but you kept on incessantly writing about her (as you're still doing).
> >
> Actually, you were dragging her through the mud this morning when you falsely claimed that her disappearance came about when instead of coming home to her husband and son after work, she went to a friend's party and did so many heavy duty drugs that she seemed "blanked out crazy."

Well, Michael, now I can call you a liar. Here's what I told Will this morning that I think happened that night:

"Speculation: Melody and Andy had planned to run off to Mexico that weekend and were all packed up and ready to go. So on Friday Melody asked her long-time co-worker and friend Kathy to come over for a going-away celebration; Kathy agreed, as they were friends, and she figured she'd only be an hour or so and then she'd go home to you. They did some nasty drugs, and Kathy had a bad trip (became "blanked out crazy"). Melody and Andy panicked (what were they going to do with her?) and called her family but were only able to leave messages. As they couldn't just leave her behind in their apartment, they decided the best plan was to take her with them. Fortunately, Victoria got her message, went to the Hernandez place with the police, and took Kathy to the institution in Marietta (where she remained until she was released two months later)."

I notice you didn't challenge any of that on the thread, but just decided to lie about it here.
(1) You lied that I'd "claimed" that happened, even though you knew it was "speculation".
(2) You lied that I'd claimed she went to a "party" instead of going home.
(3) You dishonestly pretended that I'd claimed she was "blanked out crazy", when you knew that was a quote from the Bio (in which Will was quoting either Kathy or Victoria).
(3) You lied that I'd claimed she'd got in that condition from doing "so many" drugs, when what I'd speculated was that she was having a bad trip.

Which brings up the oft-repeated question:
Why do you lie so much, MIchael?
> I sincerely hope your proverbial tail is firmly tucked between your legs.... again.

Sorry to rain on your imaginary victory parade, but you aren't going to get rid of me that easily.

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 12:37:50 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:34:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > > For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > > No, what I said to you was: "Well, you've only been working on the story six years, ace reporter "Edward Rochester" -- I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it in another six or so. At least you have a title -- so let's start with that. On what do you base your claim that his wife "ran away"?" I didn't call you a liar for that, but I will call you a liar now for pretending that I did.
> > >
> > What makes you think Jim is referring to that particular post, George?
> >
> > You have recently said that Jim has been making up stories (i.e., lying) about Kathy's having run away -- and accused me of repeating Jim's stories.
> I've told both of you that I don't believe those stories of yours, and asked you to back them up. The above is your "colleague's" response; to open another thread complaining that I'd questioned him. Yours has been to say that, while you had sources at one time, they've all disappeared. So, yes, I still don't believe either of you.
> >

Don't.

I don't believe you when you claim not to have read the older versions when they were posted on your blog.

> > IMHO, you were calling both of us liars -- which is why we have been re-examining the story over the past few days.
> What neither of you have done, is back up any of your claims that I've questioned:
> (1) Your claim that Will's wife had run away from him previously, in the spring of 1981;

Will has admitted to that in our current discussion, George.

> (2) Your claim that she ran away in December, and sheltered at the home of Melody and Andy Hernandez for a month;

That is not my claim, George.

I think that she ran away in early November of 1981 and returned in January of 1982.

> (3) Your claim that, while at the Hernandez residence, she made plans to go to Mexico with them, and live there under an assumed name.
>

TEXAS, George. TEXAS.

They planned to go to Texas.

And, yes, Will admitted that Kathy had planned to go with them.

The assumed name is an assumption on my part -- and a justifiable one at that, since she had not told her husband of her plans (or whereabouts for over a month), one can logically conclude that she doesn't want him to find her.

Living under an assumed name would be a necessity for someone who didn't wish to be found.

> Once again, I'll tell you as politely as I can that I don't believe any of those claims, won't take either of your words for them, and would like to see your sources for them. If you two want to call that "calling you a liar," that's very fine, but it only looks like the two of you stonewalling on my requests.
>

Once again, I'll advise you to familiarize yourself with the current discussions:

MMP: Kathy left Will in spring of 1981.

GD: This isn't in the Bio. According to it, in spring of 1981 Will moved into "a small boarding house" and then to La Maison in mid-1981. He probably lived alone in the boarding house, but there's no details.

WD: I was already living at the La Maison apartment when I met Tina, by the way.

MMP: I suggest that you review my current exchanges with Will on the topic (in this and other threads). Will has confirmed that Kathy left him in the spring of 1981 and that he and Tina began living together that summer.

GD: I'm not interested in what Will said about your account. I would like to see where you got that account in the first place.

MMP: Will has already confirmed it.

WD: Yes, I was split up with Katherine in early 1981and met Tina at the Hot Line bar on Cheshire Bridge Road in the Summer of 1981.

MMP: Will met Tina and she moved in with him. They weren't paying rent because the stove in their apartment didn't work.

WD: That's correct.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/PK_RGoiHPl8

> > > > All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > > When I asked you, you told me to read the "autobiography". Now you're claiming that you didn't mean the one on PPP, but some other version which supposedly was written "for the general public" but which you haven't produced for anyone else to read.
> > >
> > The autobiography that Jim and I read on PPP in the past (and were referring to), now exists only in a largely rewritten form.
> >
> > Will may have saved the older versions (though I highly doubt it), but Jim and I certainly had no reason to.
>
> > > > I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
> > > >
> > > Again, that contradicts the Bio. Most of what he wrote there was in fact answers to questions by you and "Michael Pendragon" who were interviewing him for your own article(s).
> > >
> > I should call that a lie, but I'll remain civil and say that you are mistaken.
> You do know that both of you are named and quoted in the Bio, right?

I've told you that we are several times now.

Please work on your reading comprehension skills.

> > When Will's autobiography first appeared, he and I were still (in my opinion) friends. I thought that his autobiography depicted him as an amoral, misogynistic, self-centered piece of redneck trailer trash, told him not to be so forthcoming with the sordid details, and suggested that he rewrite it in a much less self-condemnatory manner.
> >
> > I was certainly not "interviewing him for (my) own article."
> I said you were interviewing him for the Chimp's multiple NGBS articles over the year -- which, considering I just found out you were helping him with those, I'll continue to call "your" articles. Meaning that you're as responsible for their contents as he is.
>

IOW: You're making up stories; pretending that Jim is a reporter, and basically trolling. Got it.

> > I don't see how it should matter that Will's revisions came about in response to discussions with Jim and myself -- except that Mr. Paranoid Conspiracy-Theorist Dance wants to pretend that it was all an insidious plot to pry personal information out of Will for use in our own "articles."
> >
> > Yet again one is brought to the eternally recurring question of WTF is wrong with you, George Dance?
> You can't supply any sources for the many stories you two have written here on aapc about Will's wife running away from him -- so instead you start lashing out and insulting. It's hardly a "conspiracy" that you two have been trying to pry information about Will to use in your own "articles" about him here -- you're currently doing just that in three different threads, this being one of them.
>

No one was ever charged with kidnapping her. She was found at a friend's house (after having been m.i.a. for about a month), and placed in a mental institution by her sister for another month. Her husband was not informed of her whereabouts for the entire 2 month period.

I call that running away.

> > > > Those details, I repeated, which was called a lie by Mr. Dance.
> > > The question is, what did you "repeat" them from? Not from Will's account in the Bio. I suspect that you and your fiction writer friend made them up, and that in fact you did lie. But I'm willing to wait, ask you and your fiction-writing "colleague" to back up yourstory, and pronounce you a liar only after you both come up empty-handed.
> > >
> > "Your story" should be presented as two words, George.
> > As noted above: Will revised his autobiography several times in response to discussions with both Jim and myself. The older version of this no longer exist.
> If they were on PPP, the earlier versions still exist. Is that what you claim is your source for the above claims?
> > > snip for focus
>
> > > > I have asked him, over the years, not to drag his ex through the mud but as we've seen Dockery corrects the record, keeping the spotlight on himself by doing so.
> > > >
> > > Actually, when you began dragging Kathy through the mud (in Dec. 2017) you berated Will for writing details earlier; but you kept on incessantly writing about her (as you're still doing).
> > >
> > Actually, you were dragging her through the mud this morning when you falsely claimed that her disappearance came about when instead of coming home to her husband and son after work, she went to a friend's party and did so many heavy duty drugs that she seemed "blanked out crazy."
> Well, Michael, now I can call you a liar. Here's what I told Will this morning that I think happened that night:
>
> "Speculation: Melody and Andy had planned to run off to Mexico that weekend and were all packed up and ready to go. So on Friday Melody asked her long-time co-worker and friend Kathy to come over for a going-away celebration; Kathy agreed, as they were friends, and she figured she'd only be an hour or so and then she'd go home to you. They did some nasty drugs, and Kathy had a bad trip (became "blanked out crazy"). Melody and Andy panicked (what were they going to do with her?) and called her family but were only able to leave messages. As they couldn't just leave her behind in their apartment, they decided the best plan was to take her with them. Fortunately, Victoria got her message, went to the Hernandez place with the police, and took Kathy to the institution in Marietta (where she remained until she was released two months later)."
>

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 2:11:50 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 12:37:50 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:34:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > > > For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > > > No, what I said to you was: "Well, you've only been working on the story six years, ace reporter "Edward Rochester" -- I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it in another six or so. At least you have a title -- so let's start with that. On what do you base your claim that his wife "ran away"?" I didn't call you a liar for that, but I will call you a liar now for pretending that I did.
> > > >
> > > What makes you think Jim is referring to that particular post, George?
> > >
> > > You have recently said that Jim has been making up stories (i.e., lying) about Kathy's having run away -- and accused me of repeating Jim's stories.
> > I've told both of you that I don't believe those stories of yours, and asked you to back them up. The above is your "colleague's" response; to open another thread complaining that I'd questioned him. Yours has been to say that, while you had sources at one time, they've all disappeared. So, yes, I still don't believe either of you.
> > >
> Don't.
>
> I don't believe you when you claim not to have read the older versions when they were posted on your blog.

I've read them now. There's only one version of the story before Nov. 2017 - that account to Tina, probably from his FB posts, that's still in the Bio.. There's nothing else there -- nothing that supports your story that Kathy ran away from Will (now twice, according to you). You can confirm that for yourself; they're all here:
https://pennyspoetry.fandom.com/wiki/Will_Dockery

> > > IMHO, you were calling both of us liars -- which is why we have been re-examining the story over the past few days.
> > What neither of you have done, is back up any of your claims that I've questioned:
> > (1) Your claim that Will's wife had run away from him previously, in the spring of 1981;
> Will has admitted to that in our current discussion, George.

As far as I've seen, he's 'admitted' only that they "split up"

> > (2) Your claim that she ran away in December, and sheltered at the home of Melody and Andy Hernandez for a month;
> That is not my claim, George.
> I think that she ran away in early November of 1981 and returned in January of 1982.

I'll change the date. Is that the date "Edward Rochester" claims as well? That's not too important; the important part is your claim that she spent a month sheltering at the Hernandez home.

> > (3) Your claim that, while at the Hernandez residence, she made plans to go to Mexico with them, and live there under an assumed name.
> >
> TEXAS, George. TEXAS.
> They planned to go to Texas.
>
> And, yes, Will admitted that Kathy had planned to go with them.
In the bio, he says that Melody and Andy "were going to take Kathy with them" and that Kathy (who was "blanked out crazy" at the time) was about to. I've told you that's not evidence of any "planning" and what I think it means instead.

> The assumed name is an assumption on my part -- and a justifiable one at that, since she had not told her husband of her plans (or whereabouts for over a month), one can logically conclude that she doesn't want him to find her.
> Living under an assumed name would be a necessity for someone who didn't wish to be found.

I agree that it's a logical assumption; if she were trying to escape her past, she'd plan on changing her name. So I don't mind leaving it in your claim. I won't insist that you prove it, though; if you turn up evidence that she was planning to run away to Texas, but none that she was going to assume a new identity, that's fine.

> > Once again, I'll tell you as politely as I can that I don't believe any of those claims, won't take either of your words for them, and would like to see your sources for them. If you two want to call that "calling you a liar," that's very fine, but it only looks like the two of you stonewalling on my requests.
> >
> Once again, I'll advise you to familiarize yourself with the current discussions:
>
> MMP: Kathy left Will in spring of 1981.
>
> GD: This isn't in the Bio. According to it, in spring of 1981 Will moved into "a small boarding house" and then to La Maison in mid-1981. He probably lived alone in the boarding house, but there's no details.
>
> WD: I was already living at the La Maison apartment when I met Tina, by the way.

> MMP: I suggest that you review my current exchanges with Will on the topic (in this and other threads). Will has confirmed that Kathy left him in the spring of 1981 and that he and Tina began living together that summer.
>
> GD: I'm not interested in what Will said about your account. I would like to see where you got that account in the first place.
>
> MMP: Will has already confirmed it.
>
> WD: Yes, I was split up with Katherine in early 1981and met Tina at the Hot Line bar on Cheshire Bridge Road in the Summer of 1981.
>
> MMP: Will met Tina and she moved in with him. They weren't paying rent because the stove in their apartment didn't work.
>
> WD: That's correct.
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/PK_RGoiHPl8

Will says they "split up". That is not saying she "left him". As I said, he's the one who moved out. Maybe he left her, maybe she kicked him out. The Bio's silent on the subject, in all the versions I've read this weekend.

> > > > > All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > > > When I asked you, you told me to read the "autobiography". Now you're claiming that you didn't mean the one on PPP, but some other version which supposedly was written "for the general public" but which you haven't produced for anyone else to read.
> > > >
> > > The autobiography that Jim and I read on PPP in the past (and were referring to), now exists only in a largely rewritten form. > > >
> > > Will may have saved the older versions (though I highly doubt it), but Jim and I certainly had no reason to.

All the older versions of the PPP autobiography exist. And until the end of 2017 they're identical. There are no other versions.
> >
> > > > > I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
> > > > >
> > > > Again, that contradicts the Bio. Most of what he wrote there was in fact answers to questions by you and "Michael Pendragon" who were interviewing him for your own article(s).
> > > >
> > > I should call that a lie, but I'll remain civil and say that you are mistaken.
> > You do know that both of you are named and quoted in the Bio, right?
> I've told you that we are several times now.

You've also been posting quotes with your "Pendragon" name misspelled. (That's been fixed, BTW.)
>
> Please work on your reading comprehension skills.

So the two of you were pump;ing Will for information that "Edward" could use in his articles(s), but you don't like to call that "interviewing."

> > > When Will's autobiography first appeared, he and I were still (in my opinion) friends. I thought that his autobiography depicted him as an amoral, misogynistic, self-centered piece of redneck trailer trash, told him not to be so forthcoming with the sordid details, and suggested that he rewrite it in a much less self-condemnatory manner.
> > >
Whatever you told him back in 2014, he didn't take your advice. He didn't change anything. Whatever "sordid details" were in there back then are still in there.

He only starts adding things, and mentioning your input, in December 2017. By that time, you were: fighting with Rachel (and Will) about the Sampler, fighting with Pickering (and Will) about whether Allan Ginsberg was a child molester, and fighting with me (and Will) about your flooding the group with that Pickering screed; IOW, no longer the closest of friends with Will.

> > > I was certainly not "interviewing him for (my) own article."
> > I said you were interviewing him for the Chimp's multiple NGBS articles over the year -- which, considering I just found out you were helping him with those, I'll continue to call "your" articles. Meaning that you're as responsible for their contents as he is.
> >
> IOW: You're making up stories; pretending that Jim is a reporter, and basically trolling. Got it.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 3:19:49 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 2:11:50 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 12:37:50 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 9:34:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 7:27:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > > > > For saying Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > > > > No, what I said to you was: "Well, you've only been working on the story six years, ace reporter "Edward Rochester" -- I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it in another six or so. At least you have a title -- so let's start with that. On what do you base your claim that his wife "ran away"?" I didn't call you a liar for that, but I will call you a liar now for pretending that I did.
> > > > >
> > > > What makes you think Jim is referring to that particular post, George?
> > > >
> > > > You have recently said that Jim has been making up stories (i.e., lying) about Kathy's having run away -- and accused me of repeating Jim's stories.
> > > I've told both of you that I don't believe those stories of yours, and asked you to back them up. The above is your "colleague's" response; to open another thread complaining that I'd questioned him. Yours has been to say that, while you had sources at one time, they've all disappeared. So, yes, I still don't believe either of you.
> > > >
> > Don't.
> >
> > I don't believe you when you claim not to have read the older versions when they were posted on your blog.
> I've read them now. There's only one version of the story before Nov. 2017 - that account to Tina, probably from his FB posts, that's still in the Bio. There's nothing else there -- nothing that supports your story that Kathy ran away from Will (now twice, according to you). You can confirm that for yourself; they're all here:
>

You've already admitted that they had broken up in early 1981.

If your only reason for dragging out this point is to establish who left who, I don't see any point in continuing it.

IMHO it makes Will look much worse when you claim that he was the one who left his young wife and three-year old son.

> https://pennyspoetry.fandom.com/wiki/Will_Dockery
> > > > IMHO, you were calling both of us liars -- which is why we have been re-examining the story over the past few days.
> > > What neither of you have done, is back up any of your claims that I've questioned:
> > > (1) Your claim that Will's wife had run away from him previously, in the spring of 1981;
> > Will has admitted to that in our current discussion, George.
> As far as I've seen, he's 'admitted' only that they "split up"

See above.

What are you trying to prove? That Will is an even bigger douchebag than I'd thought?

> > > (2) Your claim that she ran away in December, and sheltered at the home of Melody and Andy Hernandez for a month;
> > That is not my claim, George.
> > I think that she ran away in early November of 1981 and returned in January of 1982.
> I'll change the date. Is that the date "Edward Rochester" claims as well? That's not too important; the important part is your claim that she spent a month sheltering at the Hernandez home.
>

Will obviously doesn't remember what month she disappeared, or how long she was gone.

He has changed his story numerous times, and admitted that he had "partied" so heavily during that period that he was unaware of Christmas and New Year's having passed.

At this point, the *only* way to establish the dates would be through documentation -- most of which *should* be accessible. The date of the missing person report, the date of the Sherwood apartment fire, the date the police accompanied Victoria to the Hernandez home/sent Kathy for psychiatric evaluation, and the date of her release.

Will would be the logical candidate for researching this information, as he has access to the local library, and as Kathy's next of kin would have access to otherwise restricted documents in the police files and from the mental institution (if it still exists).

> > > (3) Your claim that, while at the Hernandez residence, she made plans to go to Mexico with them, and live there under an assumed name.
> > >
> > TEXAS, George. TEXAS.
> > They planned to go to Texas.
> >
> > And, yes, Will admitted that Kathy had planned to go with them.
> In the bio, he says that Melody and Andy "were going to take Kathy with them" and that Kathy (who was "blanked out crazy" at the time) was about to. I've told you that's not evidence of any "planning" and what I think it means instead.
>

No, you haven't directly stated what you think it means instead. You've hinted that she was being held against her will, and/or being kidnapped -- but later denied it.

In any case, it's purely speculation on your part, and meaningless until we have established how long she had stayed with the Hernandezes.

> > The assumed name is an assumption on my part -- and a justifiable one at that, since she had not told her husband of her plans (or whereabouts for over a month), one can logically conclude that she doesn't want him to find her.
>
> > Living under an assumed name would be a necessity for someone who didn't wish to be found.
> I agree that it's a logical assumption; if she were trying to escape her past, she'd plan on changing her name. So I don't mind leaving it in your claim. I won't insist that you prove it, though; if you turn up evidence that she was planning to run away to Texas, but none that she was going to assume a new identity, that's fine.
>

It is difficult to find evidence regarding a living person's plans --- much less the plans of someone who's been dead for 19 years.

Will has said that he was told (apparently by Kathy) that she had planned on going to Texas with the Hernandezes. Will claims that he and Kathy never discussed the details of the event, and admits to being drunk/drugged out of his mind for the bulk of her disappearance and remembers little of it.

I'm going by Will's drug-addled recollections... which are unreliable at best.

> > > Once again, I'll tell you as politely as I can that I don't believe any of those claims, won't take either of your words for them, and would like to see your sources for them. If you two want to call that "calling you a liar," that's very fine, but it only looks like the two of you stonewalling on my requests.
> > >
> > Once again, I'll advise you to familiarize yourself with the current discussions:
> >
> > MMP: Kathy left Will in spring of 1981.
> >
> > GD: This isn't in the Bio. According to it, in spring of 1981 Will moved into "a small boarding house" and then to La Maison in mid-1981. He probably lived alone in the boarding house, but there's no details.
> >
> > WD: I was already living at the La Maison apartment when I met Tina, by the way.
>
> > MMP: I suggest that you review my current exchanges with Will on the topic (in this and other threads). Will has confirmed that Kathy left him in the spring of 1981 and that he and Tina began living together that summer.
> >
> > GD: I'm not interested in what Will said about your account. I would like to see where you got that account in the first place.
> >
> > MMP: Will has already confirmed it.
> >
> > WD: Yes, I was split up with Katherine in early 1981and met Tina at the Hot Line bar on Cheshire Bridge Road in the Summer of 1981.
> >
> > MMP: Will met Tina and she moved in with him. They weren't paying rent because the stove in their apartment didn't work.
> >
> > WD: That's correct.
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/PK_RGoiHPl8
> Will says they "split up". That is not saying she "left him". As I said, he's the one who moved out. Maybe he left her, maybe she kicked him out. The Bio's silent on the subject, in all the versions I've read this weekend.
>

You keep repeating this. All I can do is continue to ask why.

> > > > > > All the words were by Mr. Dockery himself for his autobiography which has two versions, one of the Dance Wiki, one for the general public. I still say Mr. Dockery's wife ran away.
> > > > > When I asked you, you told me to read the "autobiography". Now you're claiming that you didn't mean the one on PPP, but some other version which supposedly was written "for the general public" but which you haven't produced for anyone else to read.
> > > > >
> > > > The autobiography that Jim and I read on PPP in the past (and were referring to), now exists only in a largely rewritten form. > > >
> > > > Will may have saved the older versions (though I highly doubt it), but Jim and I certainly had no reason to.
> All the older versions of the PPP autobiography exist. And until the end of 2017 they're identical. There are no other versions.
> > >
> > > > > > I'll start by saying, no one was interested in the details of Dockery's life, we were fed the details of Dockery's life, without asking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Again, that contradicts the Bio. Most of what he wrote there was in fact answers to questions by you and "Michael Pendragon" who were interviewing him for your own article(s).
> > > > >
> > > > I should call that a lie, but I'll remain civil and say that you are mistaken.
> > > You do know that both of you are named and quoted in the Bio, right?
> > I've told you that we are several times now.
> You've also been posting quotes with your "Pendragon" name misspelled. (That's been fixed, BTW.)