"Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."

Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.

It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.

From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.

But the damage, as they say, had been done.

His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.

The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.

It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.

I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq.. wrote:
> "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
>
> Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.

For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
<quote>
It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
So, no apology here either.
😀 </q>

> It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.

No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.

That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:

'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'

'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'

'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'

Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."

So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.

In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
>
> From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
>
> It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
>

Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.

> I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.

No, JIm does not know what he read. He knows what he remembers, but what he remembers is not what he read. Nor is what Michael remembers. Michael remembers what he imagines, and Jim remembers what Michael tells him.

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
>
> > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
> >
> > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
> For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> <quote>
> It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
> So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> So, no apology here either.
> 😀 </q>
> > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
> No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
>
> That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
>
> 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
>
> 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
>
> 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
>
> Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard".. There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
>
> So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
>
> In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
> >
> > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
> >
> > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
> >
> Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
> > I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.
> No, JIm does not know what he read. He knows what he remembers, but what he remembers is not what he read. Nor is what Michael remembers. Michael remembers what he imagines, and Jim remembers what Michael tells him.

Ping:: George, I'm moving my response off of this troll thread, to the "Cheshire Bridge Road" thread:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/aUFn96-3HsI

HTH and HAND.

Ping George Dance:

My responses to posts on this troll thread can be found at the threads "Cheshire Bridge Road" and "When The Mill Shut Down"

https://news.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=217322&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#217322

https://news.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=211698&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#211698

Just wanted to make sure you find them.

HTH and HAND.

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
> >
> > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
> For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> <quote>
> It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
> So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> So, no apology here either.
> 😀 </q>
> > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
> No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
>
> That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
>
> 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
>
> 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
>
> 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
>
> Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard".. There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
>

The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.

> So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
>
> In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
> >

No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":

Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."

Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..

In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone."

Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.

> > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
> >
> > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
> >
> Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
>

We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.

However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.

Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).

According to the current version of Will's autobio, he and Kathy were living at the Sherwood address on the night of her disappearance. According to the earlier version (the first version that I had read, and therefore the one that made the most lasting impression), she was living there with her grandmother and he was squatting in the back room of a lumber yard.

As previously noted, Will does not recall much about the time when Kathy was away. He claims it was due to his having "partied," but his friend says that he was extremely distraught. Either way, Will's recollections cannot be trusted, and the truth can only be arrived at if records of the various events (the missing persons report, the fire, Kathy's being removed from the Hernandez's house and committed for psychiatric evaluation) still exist and can be accessed.

In the meantime, please refrain from falsely accusing Jim and myself of lying about what happened just because we had read earlier versions of the story.

> > I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.
> No, JIm does not know what he read. He knows what he remembers, but what he remembers is not what he read. Nor is what Michael remembers. Michael remembers what he imagines, and Jim remembers what Michael tells him.
>

Again, in the most current version of the story, Will includes the following exchange which makes it undeniably clear that an earlier version had mistakenly placed him in the lumber yard on the night Kathy disappeared:

Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."

WD: Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:14:12 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
> > For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> > <quote>
> > It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip"..
> > So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> > So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> > So, no apology here either.
> > 😀 </q>
> > > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
> > No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
> >
> > That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
> >
> > 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
> >
> > 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
> >
> > 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
> >
> > Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
> >
> The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.
> > So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
> >
> > In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
> > >
> No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":
>
> Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."
>
> Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..
>
> In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone."
>
> Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.
> > > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> > > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> > > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> > > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> > > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
> > >
> > > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
> > >
> > Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
> >
> We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.
>
> However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.
>
> Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).
>
> According to the current version of Will's autobio, he and Kathy were living at the Sherwood address on the night of her disappearance. According to the earlier version (the first version that I had read, and therefore the one that made the most lasting impression), she was living there with her grandmother and he was squatting in the back room of a lumber yard.
>
> As previously noted, Will does not recall much about the time when Kathy was away. He claims it was due to his having "partied," but his friend says that he was extremely distraught. Either way, Will's recollections cannot be trusted, and the truth can only be arrived at if records of the various events (the missing persons report, the fire, Kathy's being removed from the Hernandez's house and committed for psychiatric evaluation) still exist and can be accessed.
>
> In the meantime, please refrain from falsely accusing Jim and myself of lying about what happened just because we had read earlier versions of the story.
> > > I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.
> > No, JIm does not know what he read. He knows what he remembers, but what he remembers is not what he read. Nor is what Michael remembers. Michael remembers what he imagines, and Jim remembers what Michael tells him.
> >
> Again, in the most current version of the story, Will includes the following exchange which makes it undeniably clear that an earlier version had mistakenly placed him in the lumber yard on the night Kathy disappeared:
>
> Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."

It "seemed" to you.

In other words, you misunderstood what was written, Pendragon.

> WD: Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..

No, I think you just somehow misunderstood that part, since that's not how it happened, Pendragon.

Ping: Michael Pendragon & George Dance:

Again, my responses to posts on this troll thread can be found at the threads "Cheshire Bridge Road" and "When The Mill Shut Down"

https://news.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=217322&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#217322

https://news.novabbs.com/arts/article-flat.php?id=211698&group=alt.arts.poetry.comments#211698

Just wanted to make sure you find them.

And so it goes.

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:14:12 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
> > For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> > <quote>
> > It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip"..
> > So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> > So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> > So, no apology here either.
> > 😀 </q>
> > > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
> > No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
> >
> > That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
> >
> > 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
> >
> > 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
> >
> > 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
> >
> > Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
> >
> The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.

What's that supposed to mean? The post I just quoted in full is the "pretty colors" one you both claim to remember. It mentions dropping acid; it doesn't mention a "lumber yard".

> > So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
> >
> > In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
> > >
> No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":
>
> Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."

Michael: there is only one version of this chapter ("Late 1981 and It All Falls Down") from June 2014 (when Will wrote it) until Oct. 2017. It said what it still says: "'The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) INTO HER GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped." (Emphasis added); and
"No, she left the baby with her grandmother, she had went to work at Old Hickory House BBQ like normal, and when it was time to get off she never made it, never came home."

Will was living at 590 Sherwood, and waiting for Kathy there; not at a 'lumber yard'.
> Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..

> In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone."
That's what you told him you're read on PPP. He responded that what you told him was "off" (incorrect).

> Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.

That makes no sense, Michael. Will told you that what you'd told him you got from his bio (that he'd moved from right from La Maison to the lumber yard) was "off" (incorrect).

> > > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> > > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> > > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> > > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> > > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
> > >
> > > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
> > >
> > Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
> >
> We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.

No; what I mean is what said; that you remember what you read on PPP. All of the multiple drafts of Will's bio are still there, and still able to be quoted verbatim.

> However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.

No, Michael; all that is indisputably clear is that you told him that's what the wiki stated.
> Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).

There's a lot on the PPP bio that needs to be cleaned up, but there's nothing in it about Will living or partying in a "lumber yard" that night. All the versions agree that he was living in his grandmother's apartment, and that he was waiting for Kathy there, at home.

> According to the current version of Will's autobio, he and Kathy were living at the Sherwood address on the night of her disappearance. According to the earlier version (the first version that I had read, and therefore the one that made the most lasting impression), she was living there with her grandmother and he was squatting in the back room of a lumber yard.

No, Michael; from the time he added the chapter, Will made it clear that he and Kathy had moved together into the Sherwood address:
"The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) into her grandmother's house, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped."

I think you confused that with what followed:
"For about a month she was just gone, and the police couldn't help me at all, she was just gone.
"Then, crazy thing, her grandmother's house burned down, her grandmother and father moved into an apartment and I slept at the brak room at the lumber yard I worked at."
> As previously noted, Will does not recall much about the time when Kathy was away. He claims it was due to his having "partied," but his friend says that he was extremely distraught. Either way, Will's recollections cannot be trusted, and the truth can only be arrived at if records of the various events (the missing persons report, the fire, Kathy's being removed from the Hernandez's house and committed for psychiatric evaluation) still exist and can be accessed.

George Dance wrote:

> On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq.. wrote:
>
>> "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
>>
>> Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.

> For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> <quote>
> It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
> So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> So, no apology here either.
> 😀 </q>

>> It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.

> No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.

> That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:

> 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'

> 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'

> 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'

> Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."

> So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.

> In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
>>
>> From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
>> But the damage, as they say, had been done.
>> His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
>> with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
>> The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
>>
>> It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
>>

> Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.

>> I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.

> No, JIm does not know what he read. He knows what he remembers, but what he remembers is not what he read. Nor is what Michael remembers. Michael remembers what he imagines, and Jim remembers what Michael tells him.

I missed this one earlier, apparently.

Well put, George Dance.

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:17:12 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:14:12 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
> > > >
> > > > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
> > > For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> > > <quote>
> > > It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
> > > So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> > > So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> > > So, no apology here either.
> > > 😀 </q>
> > > > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
> > > No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
> > >
> > > That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
> > >
> > > 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
> > >
> > > 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
> > >
> > > 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
> > >
> > > Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
> > >
> > The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.
> What's that supposed to mean?

Exactly what it says, George.

If a passage in a bio contains a response regarding a previous version of said bio, it cannot possibly be the original version.

> The post I just quoted in full is the "pretty colors" one you both claim to remember. It mentions dropping acid; it doesn't mention a "lumber yard".
>

The post that you'd just quoted may or may not have been 1) the original or 2) the only version of the story that Will told.

That said, it is clear from an exchange between Will and I (in said bio) that Will's original version of the events incorrectly made it appear as if he had moved directly from La Maison to the lumber yard.

> > > So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
> > >
> > > In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
> > > >
> > No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":
> >
> > Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."
> Michael: there is only one version of this chapter ("Late 1981 and It All Falls Down") from June 2014 (when Will wrote it) until Oct. 2017. It said what it still says: "'The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) INTO HER GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped." (Emphasis added); and
> "No, she left the baby with her grandmother, she had went to work at Old Hickory House BBQ like normal, and when it was time to get off she never made it, never came home."
>
> Will was living at 590 Sherwood, and waiting for Kathy there; not at a 'lumber yard'.

The reason that I didn't know that part of the story, was because Will had inadvertently left it out of his bio -- thereby making it appear as if he had moved straight from La Maison to the lumber yard.

WTF is so difficult for you to understand about this, George Dance?

> > Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..
>
> > In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone.."
> That's what you told him you're read on PPP. He responded that what you told him was "off" (incorrect).

"Okay" connotes an admission of unclear writing on his part -- which he promises to correct.

> > Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.
> That makes no sense, Michael. Will told you that what you'd told him you got from his bio (that he'd moved from right from La Maison to the lumber yard) was "off" (incorrect).
>

Again, Will says that *he* will have to "correct"/"clarify" that information in his bio.

WTF are you having difficulty understanding, George Dance?

> > > > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> > > > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> > > > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> > > > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> > > > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
> > > >
> > > Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
> > >
> > We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.
> No; what I mean is what said; that you remember what you read on PPP. All of the multiple drafts of Will's bio are still there, and still able to be quoted verbatim.
>

And what I mean to say is that there is no way that I am going to scroll through up to 500 revisions to search for the one in question.

> > However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.
> No, Michael; all that is indisputably clear is that you told him that's what the wiki stated.

See above.

> > Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).
> There's a lot on the PPP bio that needs to be cleaned up, but there's nothing in it about Will living or partying in a "lumber yard" that night. All the versions agree that he was living in his grandmother's apartment, and that he was waiting for Kathy there, at home.
>

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:17:12 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:14:12 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
>> > > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
>> > > > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
>> > > >
>> > > > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
>> > > For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
>> > > <quote>
>> > > It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
>> > > So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
>> > > So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
>> > > So, no apology here either.
>> > > 😀 </q>
>> > > > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
>> > > No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
>> > >
>> > > That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
>> > >
>> > > 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
>> > >
>> > > 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
>> > >
>> > > 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
>> > >
>> > > Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
>> > >
>> > The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.
>> What's that supposed to mean?

> Exactly what it says, George.

> If a passage in a bio contains a response regarding a previous version of said bio, it cannot possibly be the original version.

>> The post I just quoted in full is the "pretty colors" one you both claim to remember. It mentions dropping acid; it doesn't mention a "lumber yard".
>>

> The post that you'd just quoted may or may not have been 1) the original or 2) the only version of the story that Will told.

> That said, it is clear from an exchange between Will and I (in said bio) that Will's original version of the events incorrectly made it appear as if he had moved directly from La Maison to the lumber yard.

>> > > So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
>> > >
>> > > In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
>> > > >
>> > No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":
>> >
>> > Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."
>> Michael: there is only one version of this chapter ("Late 1981 and It All Falls Down") from June 2014 (when Will wrote it) until Oct. 2017. It said what it still says: "'The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) INTO HER GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped." (Emphasis added); and
>> "No, she left the baby with her grandmother, she had went to work at Old Hickory House BBQ like normal, and when it was time to get off she never made it, never came home."
>>
>> Will was living at 590 Sherwood, and waiting for Kathy there; not at a 'lumber yard'.

> The reason that I didn't know that part of the story, was because Will had inadvertently left it out of his bio -- thereby making it appear as if he had moved straight from La Maison to the lumber yard.

> WTF is so difficult for you to understand about this, George Dance?

>> > Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..
>>
>> > In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone.."
>> That's what you told him you're read on PPP. He responded that what you told him was "off" (incorrect).

> "Okay" connotes an admission of unclear writing on his part -- which he promises to correct.

>> > Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.
>> That makes no sense, Michael. Will told you that what you'd told him you got from his bio (that he'd moved from right from La Maison to the lumber yard) was "off" (incorrect).
>>

> Again, Will says that *he* will have to "correct"/"clarify" that information in his bio.

> WTF are you having difficulty understanding, George Dance?

>> > > > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
>> > > > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
>> > > > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
>> > > > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
>> > > > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
>> > > >
>> > > > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
>> > > >
>> > > Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
>> > >
>> > We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.
>> No; what I mean is what said; that you remember what you read on PPP. All of the multiple drafts of Will's bio are still there, and still able to be quoted verbatim.
>>

> And what I mean to say is that there is no way that I am going to scroll through up to 500 revisions to search for the one in question.

>> > However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.
>> No, Michael; all that is indisputably clear is that you told him that's what the wiki stated.

> See above.

>> > Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).
>> There's a lot on the PPP bio that needs to be cleaned up, but there's nothing in it about Will living or partying in a "lumber yard" that night. All the versions agree that he was living in his grandmother's apartment, and that he was waiting for Kathy there, at home.
>>

On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 3:00:12 PM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 1:17:12 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 9:14:12 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> >> > > On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 10:58:48 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> >> > > > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
> >> > > For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
> >> > > <quote>
> >> > > It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip".
> >> > > So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
> >> > > So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
> >> > > So, no apology here either.
> >> > > 😀 </q>
> >> > > > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
> >> > > No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
> >> > >
> >> > > That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
> >> > >
> >> > > 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
> >> > >
> >> > > 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
> >> > >
> >> > > 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
> >> > >
> >> > > Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
> >> > >
> >> > The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.
> >> What's that supposed to mean?
>
> > Exactly what it says, George.
>
> > If a passage in a bio contains a response regarding a previous version of said bio, it cannot possibly be the original version.
>
> >> The post I just quoted in full is the "pretty colors" one you both claim to remember. It mentions dropping acid; it doesn't mention a "lumber yard".
> >>
>
> > The post that you'd just quoted may or may not have been 1) the original or 2) the only version of the story that Will told.
>
> > That said, it is clear from an exchange between Will and I (in said bio) that Will's original version of the events incorrectly made it appear as if he had moved directly from La Maison to the lumber yard.
>
> >> > > So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
> >> > >
> >> > > In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
> >> > > >
> >> > No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":
> >> >
> >> > Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."
> >> Michael: there is only one version of this chapter ("Late 1981 and It All Falls Down") from June 2014 (when Will wrote it) until Oct. 2017. It said what it still says: "'The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) INTO HER GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped." (Emphasis added); and
> >> "No, she left the baby with her grandmother, she had went to work at Old Hickory House BBQ like normal, and when it was time to get off she never made it, never came home."
> >>
> >> Will was living at 590 Sherwood, and waiting for Kathy there; not at a 'lumber yard'.
>
> > The reason that I didn't know that part of the story, was because Will had inadvertently left it out of his bio -- thereby making it appear as if he had moved straight from La Maison to the lumber yard.
>
> > WTF is so difficult for you to understand about this, George Dance?
>
> >> > Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..
> >>
> >> > In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone.."
> >> That's what you told him you're read on PPP. He responded that what you told him was "off" (incorrect).
>
> > "Okay" connotes an admission of unclear writing on his part -- which he promises to correct.
>
> >> > Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.
> >> That makes no sense, Michael. Will told you that what you'd told him you got from his bio (that he'd moved from right from La Maison to the lumber yard) was "off" (incorrect).
> >>
>
> > Again, Will says that *he* will have to "correct"/"clarify" that information in his bio.
>
> > WTF are you having difficulty understanding, George Dance?
>
> >> > > > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
> >> > > > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
> >> > > > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
> >> > > > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
> >> > > > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
> >> > > >
> >> > > Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
> >> > >
> >> > We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.
> >> No; what I mean is what said; that you remember what you read on PPP. All of the multiple drafts of Will's bio are still there, and still able to be quoted verbatim.
> >>
>
> > And what I mean to say is that there is no way that I am going to scroll through up to 500 revisions to search for the one in question.
>
> >> > However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.
> >> No, Michael; all that is indisputably clear is that you told him that's what the wiki stated.
>
> > See above.
>
> >> > Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).
> >> There's a lot on the PPP bio that needs to be cleaned up, but there's nothing in it about Will living or partying in a "lumber yard" that night. All the versions agree that he was living in his grandmother's apartment, and that he was waiting for Kathy there, at home.
> >>
>
> > See above.
>
> >> > According to the current version of Will's autobio, he and Kathy were living at the Sherwood address on the night of her disappearance. According to the earlier version (the first version that I had read, and therefore the one that made the most lasting impression), she was living there with her grandmother and he was squatting in the back room of a lumber yard.
> >> No, Michael; from the time he added the chapter, Will made it clear that he and Kathy had moved together into the Sherwood address:
> >> "The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) into her grandmother's house, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped."
> >>
>
> > Again, Will is *clarifying* the information in his bio, by including some important specifics that he'd originally left out.
>
> > WTF is so difficult for you to understand about this, George Dance?
>
> >> I think you confused that with what followed:
> >>
> >> "For about a month she was just gone, and the police couldn't help me at all, she was just gone.
> >> "Then, crazy thing, her grandmother's house burned down, her grandmother and father moved into an apartment and I slept at the brak room at the lumber yard I worked at."
> >>
>
> > See above.
>
> >> > As previously noted, Will does not recall much about the time when Kathy was away. He claims it was due to his having "partied," but his friend says that he was extremely distraught. Either way, Will's recollections cannot be trusted, and the truth can only be arrived at if records of the various events (the missing persons report, the fire, Kathy's being removed from the Hernandez's house and committed for psychiatric evaluation) still exist and can be accessed.
> >> You're welcome to insist that Will's story is wrong and yours is right all you want (though the onus is on you to base your challenge on something). That's not what you were doing; you were claiming that your challenge was based on his story.
> >>
>
> > My current version of his story is based on a logical interpretation of the *known* facts as reported by Will Dockery.
>
> >> > In the meantime, please refrain from falsely accusing Jim and myself of lying about what happened just because we had read earlier versions of the story.
> >> By JIm's definition, I can only accuse you both of bullshitting about "what happened". I can accuse you both of lying about what Will's account on PPP said, if you continue to claim that after you've been corrected.
> >>
>
> > You accuse us lying anyway, George. It's what you do.
>
> >> > > > I know what I read, and Dockery knows that, because Dockery wrote it despite his claim of 'forgotten'.
> >>
> >> > > No, JIm does not know what he read. He knows what he remembers, but what he remembers is not what he read. Nor is what Michael remembers. Michael remembers what he imagines, and Jim remembers what Michael tells him.
> >> > >
> >> > Again, in the most current version of the story, Will includes the following exchange which makes it undeniably clear that an earlier version had mistakenly placed him in the lumber yard on the night Kathy disappeared:
> >> >
> >> > Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."
> >> >
> >> > WD: Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..
> >> All that that version makes "undeniably clear" is that you'd told him the wiki contained that information, and that he'd replied that that information was incorrect ("off")
> >>
>
> > He replied that the information in his bio was incorrect ("off") and that he would fix it (which he did).
> No, I replied that if what you stated was written, that I moved from the La Maison apartment to the Carolina Lumber and Supply break room, that was "off" and would need changing, because that isn't what happened.
>
> I moved from the La Maison apartment to Sherwood Road, with my wife and child.
>
> Turned out that I hadn't written what you thought I had so no changes were needed.

To make it clear, Katherine was working on the night shift at the BBQ joint and I was waiting for her to get off work and come home, to Sherwood Road, not to the Carolina Lumber and Supply Company break room.

HTH and HAND.

George Dance wrote:

> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> George Dance wrote:
>> > Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
>
>> > > "Deny it all you want to, George, but both Jim and I (and probably others) remember the "Pretty Colors"/LSD post."
>> > >
>> > > Yes, indeed. Dockery wrote of waiting for Katherine to come home from work and dropping acid to see pretty colors.
>> > For those who don't remember it, it's easy enough to look up:
>> > <quote>
>> > It was 1981 in Atlanta, a Friday night, we had just put in a full week at work, the baby was at a sitter, and we considered ourselves rather "hip"..
>> > So in that context, I, and we, saw no problem with taking a doise and watching the pretty colors.
>> > So I take it you're anti drugs, Jim Senetto, and that is fine, but not everyone had as conservative mentality as you apparently do.
>> > So, no apology here either.
>> > 😀 </q>
>> > > It was a rather lengthy look into the life of Will Dockery.
>> > No, it wasn't. Jim's being honest enough; he was talking about the post as he "remembers" it. But he's not telling the truth about the post Will actually wrote.
>> >
>> > That's not the only time. Let's look at what else they've been writing about that post:
>> >
>> > 'Jim and I both remember Will's saying that he invited Kathy to the lumber yard after work to drop acid and look at the "pretty colors" the night she disappeared. I'm sure that others here remember it as well.'
>> >
>> > 'Will also wrote that on the night Kathy disappeared, he had invited her to join him in the back room of the lumber yard (where he was squatting at the time) to drop some acid together so that they could enjoy the pretty colors.'
>> >
>> > 'you had written that you had been living in the back room of the lumber yard at the night of her disappearance and had invited her to drop acid with you after work and look at the "pretty colors."'
>> >
>> > Now reread the "pretty colors" post, and notice that it says that Will and Kathy had planned to drop acid that night -- but not at the "lumber yard". There is no fricking mention of any "lumber yard."
>> >
>> The passage you've quoted is not the original post, as Will is *responding* to Jim's questions about the original.

> What's that supposed to mean? The post I just quoted in full is the "pretty colors" one you both claim to remember. It mentions dropping acid; it doesn't mention a "lumber yard".

>> > So how did that get into the story? Michael Monkey confused what he read with something that happened to Will at another time, and imagined it into the story. He made it up.
>> >
>> > In fact, Will was living with his wife and son, and he'd "invited" Kathy to come home. But both Jim and Michael are convinced that, no, Will was not living with Kathy but all alone in a "lumber yard." Michael is convinced because he imagined it, and Jim is convinced because that's what Michael told him.
>> > >
>> No, George, Will had originally set it in the back room at the lumber yard. It was also in one of the 500-ish revisions on your wiki, as Will quotes and responds to me regarding this in the current version of "The Atlanta Years":
>>
>> Michael Pendragon: "In the wiki bio, it seems like you were only living with T, and went straight from squatting in an apartment with her to squatting at a lumber yard alone..."

> Michael: there is only one version of this chapter ("Late 1981 and It All Falls Down") from June 2014 (when Will wrote it) until Oct. 2017. It said what it still says: "'The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) INTO HER GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped." (Emphasis added); and
> "No, she left the baby with her grandmother, she had went to work at Old Hickory House BBQ like normal, and when it was time to get off she never made it, never came home."

> Will was living at 590 Sherwood, and waiting for Kathy there; not at a 'lumber yard'.

>> Okay, that was off, and I'll need to change/clarify that..

>> In one of his early drafts, Will had either directly stated, or made it appear as if such were the case, that he'd gone "straight from squatting in an apartment (La Maison) with [Kathy] to squatting at a lumber yard alone."

> That's what you told him you're read on PPP. He responded that what you told him was "off" (incorrect).

>> Based on the "off" information discussed above, the "pretty colors" story (the night of Kathy's disappearance) would have been set in the lumber yard.

> That makes no sense, Michael. Will told you that what you'd told him you got from his bio (that he'd moved from right from La Maison to the lumber yard) was "off" (incorrect).

>> > > From there it became his vow to not write about personal things on family and friends.
>> > > But the damage, as they say, had been done.
>> > > His first 'off the cuff' post on all things in the Dockery life was almost written
>> > > with a certain pride, his belief that Kerouac had it right and as far as he was concerned, he would follow that lead.
>> > > The rest is the breakdown of such thoughts.
>> > >
>> > > It makes no difference to me that Mr. Dance thinks he has it right and Michael and I have it wrong.
>> > >
>> > Probably not. But it does make a difference who is telling the truth. And Jim and Michael have not been telling the truth. Not just about this one post either. They've claimed their major source was Will's "autobiography" on Penny's Poetry Pages -- not the present version, but "earlier versions" which Will is supposed to have rewritten and then deleted (but they claimed to remember). Yet, the earlier versions all still exist, and they don't back any of those claims. Once again, they're honest enough about their memories, but they don't actually remember what their sources said. Michael remembered what he imagined, and Jim remembered what Michael told him.
>> >
>> We can't quote the sources verbatim, if that's what you mean.

> No; what I mean is what said; that you remember what you read on PPP. All of the multiple drafts of Will's bio are still there, and still able to be quoted verbatim.

>> However, it is indisputably clear from the current version of "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years" that he had originally either stated, or unintentionally made it appear as though he had, that he went straight from La Maison to squatting in the back room of the lumber yard which would have then been the setting for the "Pretty Colors" incident on the night of Kathy's disappearance.

> No, Michael; all that is indisputably clear is that you told him that's what the wiki stated.

>> Any incorrect information Jim or I have posted is *based* upon Will's autobiographies, poetry, and discussions (which I have shown to be contradictory and confused about many of the details).

> There's a lot on the PPP bio that needs to be cleaned up, but there's nothing in it about Will living or partying in a "lumber yard" that night. All the versions agree that he was living in his grandmother's apartment, and that he was waiting for Kathy there, at home.

>> According to the current version of Will's autobio, he and Kathy were living at the Sherwood address on the night of her disappearance. According to the earlier version (the first version that I had read, and therefore the one that made the most lasting impression), she was living there with her grandmother and he was squatting in the back room of a lumber yard.

> No, Michael; from the time he added the chapter, Will made it clear that he and Kathy had moved together into the Sherwood address:
> "The part of the story you probably don't know is we moved out of those La Maison Apartments, owing at least two months of rent (since none of us ever paid rent!) (which was like $365 a month utilities not included!) into her grandmother's house, and then right after Halloween she just vanished, like she was kidneapped."

> I think you confused that with what followed:

> "For about a month she was just gone, and the police couldn't help me at all, she was just gone.
> "Then, crazy thing, her grandmother's house burned down, her grandmother and father moved into an apartment and I slept at the brak room at the lumber yard I worked at."

>> As previously noted, Will does not recall much about the time when Kathy was away. He claims it was due to his having "partied," but his friend says that he was extremely distraught. Either way, Will's recollections cannot be trusted, and the truth can only be arrived at if records of the various events (the missing persons report, the fire, Kathy's being removed from the Hernandez's house and committed for psychiatric evaluation) still exist and can be accessed.