That's right, children. This is the anniversary of Ferdinand and
Isabella signing the Alhambra decree, expelling the Jews of Spain from
their separate kingdoms, Aragon and Castille. March 31, 1492. Columbus
would set sail for, uh, India a few months later. Quite a few members of
his crew were Jewish.

100,000 expelled, 200,000 converted, after 50,000 had converted in the
decades after the massacre of 1391. Voluntary conversions, they were,
under penalty of death. Of course the Catholic monarchs didn't believe
them, hence the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish
Inquisition.

Show your love for religious tolerance by beating up a Jew today or,
better yet, celebrate Hamas's rape and torture of Israeli women on
October 7.

For those of you who believe the United States was founded as a
Christian nation and ignore the anti-Establishment Clause and Free
Exercise Clause in the constition, let me wish you could be put into the
Twilight Zone to enjoy 15th century Spain and the expulsion. As a Jew.

Writing from America from which we haven't been expelled.

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:58:31 -0000 (UTC)
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> That's right, children. This is the anniversary of Ferdinand and
> Isabella signing the Alhambra decree, expelling the Jews of Spain from
> their separate kingdoms, Aragon and Castille. March 31, 1492. Columbus
> would set sail for, uh, India a few months later. Quite a few members
> of his crew were Jewish.
>
I didn't know that several of the crew were Jewish. Mind you, I've
never seen very much detail on his voyages in any case. The mere fact
that the voyages were made and were successful is pretty much the only
thing that was said during my school days. (In those days, his voyages
were a triumph. Nowadays, of course, they are painted as this immense
tragedy.)

> 100,000 expelled, 200,000 converted, after 50,000 had converted in the
> decades after the massacre of 1391. Voluntary conversions, they were,
> under penalty of death. Of course the Catholic monarchs didn't believe
> them, hence the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish
> Inquisition.
>
Were the Jews really better treated under the previous Muslim rule than
Catholic rule?

> Show your love for religious tolerance by beating up a Jew today or,
> better yet, celebrate Hamas's rape and torture of Israeli women on
> October 7.
>
> For those of you who believe the United States was founded as a
> Christian nation and ignore the anti-Establishment Clause and Free
> Exercise Clause in the constition, let me wish you could be put into
> the Twilight Zone to enjoy 15th century Spain and the expulsion. As a
> Jew.
>
> Writing from America from which we haven't been expelled.

Yet.

It seems clear to me that all the pro-Palestinian protesters since Oct.
7 would be more than happy to expel all the Jews from America - and
everywhere else really. For the moment, they'll settle for "from the
river to the sea" but it's clear that will never be enough. Eventually,
it will not just be from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea but
from EVERY river to EVERY sea. Islam wants to control the entire world.
Muslims see it as their "manifest destiny".

--
Rhino

On 4/1/2024 9:11 AM, Rhino wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:58:31 -0000 (UTC)
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> That's right, children. This is the anniversary of Ferdinand and
>> Isabella signing the Alhambra decree, expelling the Jews of Spain from
>> their separate kingdoms, Aragon and Castille. March 31, 1492. Columbus
>> would set sail for, uh, India a few months later. Quite a few members
>> of his crew were Jewish.
>>
> I didn't know that several of the crew were Jewish. Mind you, I've
> never seen very much detail on his voyages in any case. The mere fact
> that the voyages were made and were successful is pretty much the only
> thing that was said during my school days. (In those days, his voyages
> were a triumph. Nowadays, of course, they are painted as this immense
> tragedy.)
>
>> 100,000 expelled, 200,000 converted, after 50,000 had converted in the
>> decades after the massacre of 1391. Voluntary conversions, they were,
>> under penalty of death. Of course the Catholic monarchs didn't believe
>> them, hence the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish
>> Inquisition.
>>
> Were the Jews really better treated under the previous Muslim rule than
> Catholic rule?

From what I've read, yes. The muslims didn't always hate the jews as
they have for the last 150 years or so. Christians however....

>
>> Show your love for religious tolerance by beating up a Jew today or,
>> better yet, celebrate Hamas's rape and torture of Israeli women on
>> October 7.
>>
>> For those of you who believe the United States was founded as a
>> Christian nation and ignore the anti-Establishment Clause and Free
>> Exercise Clause in the constition, let me wish you could be put into
>> the Twilight Zone to enjoy 15th century Spain and the expulsion. As a
>> Jew.
>>
>> Writing from America from which we haven't been expelled.
>
> Yet.
>
> It seems clear to me that all the pro-Palestinian protesters since Oct.
> 7 would be more than happy to expel all the Jews from America - and
> everywhere else really. For the moment, they'll settle for "from the
> river to the sea" but it's clear that will never be enough. Eventually,
> it will not just be from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea but
> from EVERY river to EVERY sea. Islam wants to control the entire world.
> Muslims see it as their "manifest destiny".
>

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:58:31 -0000 (UTC) Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>That's right, children. This is the anniversary of Ferdinand and
>>Isabella signing the Alhambra decree, expelling the Jews of Spain from
>>their separate kingdoms, Aragon and Castille. March 31, 1492. Columbus
>>would set sail for, uh, India a few months later. Quite a few members
>>of his crew were Jewish.

>I didn't know that several of the crew were Jewish.

Most famously, the navigator on Columbus's ship. I'm spacing out on his
name.

>. . .

>>100,000 expelled, 200,000 converted, after 50,000 had converted in the
>>decades after the massacre of 1391. Voluntary conversions, they were,
>>under penalty of death. Of course the Catholic monarchs didn't believe
>>them, hence the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish
>>Inquisition.

>Were the Jews really better treated under the previous Muslim rule than
>Catholic rule?

Islam became a huge religion thanks to missionaries and forced
conversion. There's no question that they did it throughout their
history. But from what I've read, there were restrictions on Jews (and
I guess Christians) on the Iberian peninsula, typically about serving in
government. I don't think there were restrictions on business affairs. I've
never read that there were forced conversions on the Iberian peninsula
during several hundred years of Muslim rule.

Getting Catholic monarchs onto the throwns of the Spanish kingdoms was a
huge part of the Church's global domination strategy. Nor were they
going to tolerate citizens choosing religion for themselves. The overt
religious intolerance began in earnest around the end of the 14th
century and throughout the 15th century, leading up to the expulsion.

In the pre-Christian era, we tried to become the dominant religion,
hence the two Hellenic-style Temples and priests. This begat the people
who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls, who objected to having a Temple-based
religion, and eventually led to Christianity. We shouldn't prosyletize.

>>. . .

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024 17:55:53 -0000 (UTC)
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >Sun, 31 Mar 2024 21:58:31 -0000 (UTC) Adam H. Kerman
> ><ahk@chinet.com>:
>
> >>That's right, children. This is the anniversary of Ferdinand and
> >>Isabella signing the Alhambra decree, expelling the Jews of Spain
> >>from their separate kingdoms, Aragon and Castille. March 31, 1492.
> >>Columbus would set sail for, uh, India a few months later. Quite a
> >>few members of his crew were Jewish.
>
> >I didn't know that several of the crew were Jewish.
>
> Most famously, the navigator on Columbus's ship. I'm spacing out on
> his name.
>
> >. . .
>
> >>100,000 expelled, 200,000 converted, after 50,000 had converted in
> >>the decades after the massacre of 1391. Voluntary conversions, they
> >>were, under penalty of death. Of course the Catholic monarchs
> >>didn't believe them, hence the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody expects
> >>the Spanish Inquisition.
>
> >Were the Jews really better treated under the previous Muslim rule
> >than Catholic rule?
>
> Islam became a huge religion thanks to missionaries and forced
> conversion. There's no question that they did it throughout their
> history. But from what I've read, there were restrictions on Jews (and
> I guess Christians) on the Iberian peninsula, typically about serving
> in government. I don't think there were restrictions on business
> affairs. I've never read that there were forced conversions on the
> Iberian peninsula during several hundred years of Muslim rule.
>
> Getting Catholic monarchs onto the throwns of the Spanish kingdoms
> was a huge part of the Church's global domination strategy. Nor were
> they going to tolerate citizens choosing religion for themselves. The
> overt religious intolerance began in earnest around the end of the
> 14th century and throughout the 15th century, leading up to the
> expulsion.
>
> In the pre-Christian era, we tried to become the dominant religion,
> hence the two Hellenic-style Temples and priests. This begat the
> people who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls, who objected to having a
> Temple-based religion, and eventually led to Christianity. We
> shouldn't prosyletize.
>
> >>. . .

A Jewish friend with an interest in archaelogy once worked on a Roman
dig - I don't recall where beyond it being in Italy - and told me the
Romans viewed Christianity as a mere Jewish sect. That certainly
changed over the following centuries!

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>. . .

>A Jewish friend with an interest in archaelogy once worked on a Roman
>dig - I don't recall where beyond it being in Italy - and told me the
>Romans viewed Christianity as a mere Jewish sect. That certainly
>changed over the following centuries!

Apostle Paul figured out pretty early on that all you had to do to
become a Christian was accept Jesus as your lord and savior and tossed
out all the studying that goes along with being Jewish.

Christianity went a different way right from the start. The Romans
didn't get it.

On 4/1/2024 2:05 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> A Jewish friend with an interest in archaelogy once worked on a Roman
>> dig - I don't recall where beyond it being in Italy - and told me the
>> Romans viewed Christianity as a mere Jewish sect. That certainly
>> changed over the following centuries!
>
> Apostle Paul figured out pretty early on that all you had to do to
> become a Christian was accept Jesus as your lord and savior and tossed
> out all the studying that goes along with being Jewish.
>
> Christianity went a different way right from the start. The Romans
> didn't get it.

In the very beginnning, you did have to be a jew to become a christian.
But as you say, Paul came along and threw out that thinking.