Comedian Bill Maher said over the weekend that if Americans wanted to see
what would happen to the United States if it continued down the path to
�extreme wokeness,� they should look no further than their neighbors to the
north.

Maher argued � during Friday�s broadcast of �Real Time� on HBO � that Canada
should serve as a �cautionary tale� for Americans who wanted the progressive
utopian ideal and thought that they could see it just across the border.

WATCH:

They say in politics, liberals are the gas pedal, and conservatives
are the brakes, and I'm generally with the gas pedal, but not if
we're driving off a cliff. pic.twitter.com/hutj3OUVQi

� Bill Maher (@billmaher) April 13, 2024

Maher began by saying that he agreed with those who said American liberals
should learn from progressive countries that were getting things right � but
then he pointed out that it was equally important to recognize and
acknowledge flaws when they were present.

Giving two examples, Maher noted that unemployment in the United States was
3.8% compared to Canada�s 6.1% � and that air quality in Canada was
measurably worse than in the United States.

�They say in politics liberals are the gas pedal and conservatives are the
brakes. And I�m generally with the gas pedal. But not if we�re driving off a
cliff,� Maher said, adding, �Canada was where every woke White college kid
wearing pajama pants outdoors who had it up to here with America�s racist
patriarchy dreamt of living someday. I mean, besides Gaza.�

�There�s only one problem with thinking everything�s better in Canada: It�s
not. Not anymore, anyway,� Maher said, arguing that the housing crisis in
American cities was nothing compared to what was happening to the north. �The
median price of a home here is $346,000. In Canada converted to US dollars,
it�s 487. If Barbie moved to Winnipeg, she wouldn�t be able to afford her
dream house and Ken would be working at Tim Hortons.�

Maher went on to note that the liberal dream of single-payer health care �
which Canada has � is also not living up to its promise: �Their vaunted
health care system, which ranks dead last among high income countries, and
access to primary health care, and the ability to see a doctor in a day or
two. And it�s not for lack of spending. Of the 30 countries with universal
coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it, which is a lot of
money for free health care. Look, I�m not saying Canada still isn�t a great
country, it is, but those aren�t paradise numbers.�

�If Canada was an apartment, the lead feature might be America adjacent. And
if America was a rental car, Canada would be America or similar,� Maher
concluded. �And again, honestly, Canada, I�m not saying any of this because I
enjoy it. I don�t because I�ve always enjoyed you, but I need to cite you as
a cautionary tale to help my country. And the moral of that tale is �yes, you
can move too far left, and when you do, you wind up pushing the people in the
middle to the right.� At its worst. Canada is what American voters think
happens when there�s no one putting a check on extreme wokeness.�

--
Let's go Brandon!

In article <uvoo5f$1lc8m$9@dont-email.me>,
Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

> Comedian Bill Maher said over the weekend that if Americans wanted to see
> what would happen to the United States if it continued down the path to
> "extreme wokeness", they should look no further than their neighbors to the
> north.
>
> Maher argued-- during Friday's broadcast of REAL TIME on HBO-- that Canada
> should serve as a cautionary tale for Americans who wanted the progressive
> utopian ideal and thought that they could see it just across the border.

> Maher began by saying that he agreed with those who said American liberals
> should learn from progressive countries that were getting things right--
> but then he pointed out that it was equally important to recognize and
> acknowledge flaws when they were present.
>
> Giving two examples, Maher noted that unemployment in the United States was
> 3.8% compared to Canada�s 6.1%-- and that air quality in Canada was
> measurably worse than in the United States.
>
> "They say in politics liberals are the gas pedal and conservatives are the
> brakes. And I'm generally with the gas pedal but not if we're driving off a
> cliff," Maher said, adding, "Canada was where every woke white college kid
> wearing pajama pants outdoors who had it up to here with America's racist
> patriarchy dreamt of living someday. I mean, besides Gaza."
>
> "There's only one problem with thinking everything's better in Canada: It's
> not. Not anymore, anyway," Maher said, arguing that the housing crisis in
> American cities was nothing compared to what was happening to the north.
> "The median price of a home here is $346,000. In Canada converted to US
> dollars, it's 487. If Barbie moved to Winnipeg, she wouldn't be able to
> afford her dream house and Ken would be working at Tim Hortons."
>
> Maher went on to note that the liberal dream of single-payer health care--
> which Canada has-- is also not living up to its promise: "Their vaunted
> health care system, which ranks dead last among high income countries, and
> access to primary health care, and the ability to see a doctor in a day or
> two. And it's not for lack of spending. Of the 30 countries with universal
> coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it, which is a lot of
> money for free health care.

And this is a country that spends very little on its national defense.
It doesn't need a massive military to defend itself because it knows
we'll do it for them. So they have all the money they would normally
need to spend on defense and can put it toward things like health care
and it still turns into a disaster. No wonder the Canadian government is
turning to offering suicide as the go-to cure for all maladies.

> "Look, I'm not saying Canada still isn't a great country, it is, but those
> aren't paradise numbers."
>
> "If Canada was an apartment, the lead feature might be America adjacent. And
> if America was a rental car, Canada would be America or similar," Maher
> concluded. "And again, honestly, Canada, I'm not saying any of this because I
> enjoy it. I don't because I've always enjoyed you, but I need to cite you as
> a cautionary tale to help my country. And the moral of that tale is 'yes, you
> can move too far Left and when you do, you wind up pushing the people in the
> middle to the right'. At its worst, Canada is what American voters think
> happens when there's no one putting a check on extreme wokeness."

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 04:30:55 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
wrote:

>Maher argued — during Friday’s broadcast of “Real Time” on HBO — that Canada
>should serve as a “cautionary tale” for Americans who wanted the progressive
>utopian ideal and thought that they could see it just across the border.

The catch is in many respects there are multiple United States. Sure
you're all Americans but there are many different regions with greatly
different perspectives. Canada has the same situation regionally but
to a much lesser scale.

I didn't hear the specific Maher clip you're referring to but have had
heard enough of him that I've got the general idea.

>Maher began by saying that he agreed with those who said American liberals
>should learn from progressive countries that were getting things right — but
>then he pointed out that it was equally important to recognize and
>acknowledge flaws when they were present.

Heck you could even look at Britain. On the other hand I have a cousin
(from WA state) who was doing the tourist thing in Europe and while
travelling in France met the Portugese fellow who has been the love of
her life - and they never left Paris.

>Giving two examples, Maher noted that unemployment in the United States was
>3.8% compared to Canada’s 6.1% — and that air quality in Canada was
>measurably worse than in the United States.

Which is an incredibly dumb comment since one could never compare
downtown NYC with Wyoming - or any other pair of places one could
name. Ditto Canada - if you compare downtown Toronto (or for that
matter the northern Alberta oil sands) to seaside Vancouver or Halifax
you'd get a totally different perspective. Bottom line is that both
the United States and Canada are huge by international standards.

>“They say in politics liberals are the gas pedal and conservatives are the
>brakes. And I’m generally with the gas pedal. But not if we’re driving off a
>cliff,” Maher said, adding, “Canada was where every woke White college kid
>wearing pajama pants outdoors who had it up to here with America’s racist
>patriarchy dreamt of living someday. I mean, besides Gaza.”

My father was no woke college kid in pajamas - he simply went to
college in Seattle and met a Canadian girl from Vancouver. (They
married between 3rd year and 4th year)

>“There’s only one problem with thinking everything’s better in Canada: It’s
>not. Not anymore, anyway,” Maher said, arguing that the housing crisis in
>American cities was nothing compared to what was happening to the north. “The
>median price of a home here is $346,000. In Canada converted to US dollars,
>it’s 487. If Barbie moved to Winnipeg, she wouldn’t be able to afford her
>dream house and Ken would be working at Tim Hortons.”

No question Canada has had a housing problem these past 10 years and a
lot of it has been based on proportionately higher immigration rates
in Canada - particularly in urban cores - 70% of Canadian immigration
settles in Toronto and Vancouver which not surprisingly have the
highest price housing. What is particularly hard on first time buyers
(my children are now the age we were at when we bought for the first
time) are now competing with domestic and foreign REITs (real estate
investment trusts) in a way our generation wasn't.

>Maher went on to note that the liberal dream of single-payer health care —
>which Canada has — is also not living up to its promise: “Their vaunted
>health care system, which ranks dead last among high income countries, and
>access to primary health care, and the ability to see a doctor in a day or
>two. And it’s not for lack of spending. Of the 30 countries with universal
>coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it, which is a lot of
>money for free health care. Look, I’m not saying Canada still isn’t a great
>country, it is, but those aren’t paradise numbers.”

Do Americans expect 'paradise'? Canadians don't.

>“If Canada was an apartment, the lead feature might be America adjacent. And
>if America was a rental car, Canada would be America or similar,” Maher
>concluded. “And again, honestly, Canada, I’m not saying any of this because I
>enjoy it. I don’t because I’ve always enjoyed you, but I need to cite you as
>a cautionary tale to help my country. And the moral of that tale is ‘yes, you
>can move too far left, and when you do, you wind up pushing the people in the
>middle to the right.’ At its worst. Canada is what American voters think
>happens when there’s no one putting a check on extreme wokeness.”

Which is why people like me (Rhino too I think) are eagerly waiting
for the next election - which must be within the next 18 months.
(Canada doesn't have fixed election dates very much like the Brits)

And Justin DOES currently have approval ratings at 30 year lows which
obviously thrills people like me who spent last Saturday at a federal
nomination convention for one of the major parties (not Trudeau's) You
can reasonably conlclude from this that I am at least as interested in
federal politics as your average state caucus-goer.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 12:56:33 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <uvoo5f$1lc8m$9@dont-email.me>,
> Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>
>> Comedian Bill Maher said over the weekend that if Americans wanted to see
>> what would happen to the United States if it continued down the path to
>> "extreme wokeness", they should look no further than their neighbors to the
>> north.
>>
>> Maher argued-- during Friday's broadcast of REAL TIME on HBO-- that Canada
>> should serve as a cautionary tale for Americans who wanted the progressive
>> utopian ideal and thought that they could see it just across the border.
>
>> Maher began by saying that he agreed with those who said American liberals
>> should learn from progressive countries that were getting things right--
>> but then he pointed out that it was equally important to recognize and
>> acknowledge flaws when they were present.
>>
>> Giving two examples, Maher noted that unemployment in the United States was
>> 3.8% compared to Canada? 6.1%-- and that air quality in Canada was
>> measurably worse than in the United States.

Except you can't compare the two numbers. I don't recall the specifics
but Canada counts who is unemployed differently from the USA which
ends up with Canada having a higher number because they include people
as unemployed that the USA would not.

>> "They say in politics liberals are the gas pedal and conservatives are the
>> brakes. And I'm generally with the gas pedal but not if we're driving off a
>> cliff," Maher said, adding, "Canada was where every woke white college kid
>> wearing pajama pants outdoors who had it up to here with America's racist
>> patriarchy dreamt of living someday. I mean, besides Gaza."
>>
>> "There's only one problem with thinking everything's better in Canada: It's
>> not. Not anymore, anyway," Maher said, arguing that the housing crisis in
>> American cities was nothing compared to what was happening to the north.
>> "The median price of a home here is $346,000. In Canada converted to US
>> dollars, it's 487. If Barbie moved to Winnipeg, she wouldn't be able to
>> afford her dream house and Ken would be working at Tim Hortons."

Now that is very much the truth, but housing is rising everywhere
faster than wages are rising. To the point where anyone not in the
middle class won't be able to buy a home, and even they may struggle.
Canada just has it worse than the USA since they seem to have a larger
portion of their homes being bought by people who actually live over
seas. Largely people in China trying to put their money to use outside
of China.
>> Maher went on to note that the liberal dream of single-payer health care--
>> which Canada has-- is also not living up to its promise: "Their vaunted
>> health care system, which ranks dead last among high income countries, and
>> access to primary health care, and the ability to see a doctor in a day or
>> two. And it's not for lack of spending. Of the 30 countries with universal
>> coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it, which is a lot of
>> money for free health care.
>
>And this is a country that spends very little on its national defense.
>It doesn't need a massive military to defend itself because it knows
>we'll do it for them. So they have all the money they would normally
>need to spend on defense and can put it toward things like health care
>and it still turns into a disaster. No wonder the Canadian government is
>turning to offering suicide as the go-to cure for all maladies.

There's no easy way for someone to attack Canada without going through
the USA. The only country that is at risk would be Russia, but them
attacking Canada likely means also attacking Alaska and the USA. That
and there's not much in Canada to take that isn't effectively the USA
(given how much of the Canadian population lives near the USA border.)

On 2024-04-17 7:40 p.m., The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 04:30:55 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Maher argued — during Friday’s broadcast of “Real Time” on HBO — that Canada
>> should serve as a “cautionary tale” for Americans who wanted the progressive
>> utopian ideal and thought that they could see it just across the border.
>
> The catch is in many respects there are multiple United States. Sure
> you're all Americans but there are many different regions with greatly
> different perspectives. Canada has the same situation regionally but
> to a much lesser scale.
>
> I didn't hear the specific Maher clip you're referring to but have had
> heard enough of him that I've got the general idea.
>
>> Maher began by saying that he agreed with those who said American liberals
>> should learn from progressive countries that were getting things right — but
>> then he pointed out that it was equally important to recognize and
>> acknowledge flaws when they were present.
>
> Heck you could even look at Britain. On the other hand I have a cousin
> (from WA state) who was doing the tourist thing in Europe and while
> travelling in France met the Portugese fellow who has been the love of
> her life - and they never left Paris.
>
>> Giving two examples, Maher noted that unemployment in the United States was
>> 3.8% compared to Canada’s 6.1% — and that air quality in Canada was
>> measurably worse than in the United States.
>
> Which is an incredibly dumb comment since one could never compare
> downtown NYC with Wyoming - or any other pair of places one could
> name. Ditto Canada - if you compare downtown Toronto (or for that
> matter the northern Alberta oil sands) to seaside Vancouver or Halifax
> you'd get a totally different perspective. Bottom line is that both
> the United States and Canada are huge by international standards.
>
>> “They say in politics liberals are the gas pedal and conservatives are the
>> brakes. And I’m generally with the gas pedal. But not if we’re driving off a
>> cliff,” Maher said, adding, “Canada was where every woke White college kid
>> wearing pajama pants outdoors who had it up to here with America’s racist
>> patriarchy dreamt of living someday. I mean, besides Gaza.”
>
> My father was no woke college kid in pajamas - he simply went to
> college in Seattle and met a Canadian girl from Vancouver. (They
> married between 3rd year and 4th year)
>
>> “There’s only one problem with thinking everything’s better in Canada: It’s
>> not. Not anymore, anyway,” Maher said, arguing that the housing crisis in
>> American cities was nothing compared to what was happening to the north. “The
>> median price of a home here is $346,000. In Canada converted to US dollars,
>> it’s 487. If Barbie moved to Winnipeg, she wouldn’t be able to afford her
>> dream house and Ken would be working at Tim Hortons.”
>
> No question Canada has had a housing problem these past 10 years and a
> lot of it has been based on proportionately higher immigration rates
> in Canada - particularly in urban cores - 70% of Canadian immigration
> settles in Toronto and Vancouver which not surprisingly have the
> highest price housing. What is particularly hard on first time buyers
> (my children are now the age we were at when we bought for the first
> time) are now competing with domestic and foreign REITs (real estate
> investment trusts) in a way our generation wasn't.
>
>> Maher went on to note that the liberal dream of single-payer health care —
>> which Canada has — is also not living up to its promise: “Their vaunted
>> health care system, which ranks dead last among high income countries, and
>> access to primary health care, and the ability to see a doctor in a day or
>> two. And it’s not for lack of spending. Of the 30 countries with universal
>> coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it, which is a lot of
>> money for free health care. Look, I’m not saying Canada still isn’t a great
>> country, it is, but those aren’t paradise numbers.”
>
> Do Americans expect 'paradise'? Canadians don't.
>
>> “If Canada was an apartment, the lead feature might be America adjacent. And
>> if America was a rental car, Canada would be America or similar,” Maher
>> concluded. “And again, honestly, Canada, I’m not saying any of this because I
>> enjoy it. I don’t because I’ve always enjoyed you, but I need to cite you as
>> a cautionary tale to help my country. And the moral of that tale is ‘yes, you
>> can move too far left, and when you do, you wind up pushing the people in the
>> middle to the right.’ At its worst. Canada is what American voters think
>> happens when there’s no one putting a check on extreme wokeness.”
>
> Which is why people like me (Rhino too I think) are eagerly waiting
> for the next election - which must be within the next 18 months.
> (Canada doesn't have fixed election dates very much like the Brits)
>
Actually, we DO have (more-or-less) fixed election dates both federally
and in some provinces, including mine, BUT I saw a story recently that
the feds are developing legislation to delay the next federal election
by approximately a week. (I didn't see a proper explanation but I
strongly suspect it is to ensure that those who got elected in the 2019
election have just over 6 years in Parliament so they qualify for those
very generous pensions.) I had not realized that our feds even had the
ability to adjust election dates that way and I'm really not very happy
about it.

Of course we do retain the ability to have early elections by defeating
the government in a non-confidence motion or by simply calling one
because the governing party thinks it can convert a minority to a
majority, which Trudeau tried in 2021 but failed to get his majority.
THAT is far more in line with the British tradition than the election
dates in the US which are immovable due to the Constitution.

> And Justin DOES currently have approval ratings at 30 year lows which
> obviously thrills people like me who spent last Saturday at a federal
> nomination convention for one of the major parties (not Trudeau's) You
> can reasonably conlclude from this that I am at least as interested in
> federal politics as your average state caucus-goer.

--
Rhino

On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 19:44:50 -0400, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>Now that is very much the truth, but housing is rising everywhere
>faster than wages are rising. To the point where anyone not in the
>middle class won't be able to buy a home, and even they may struggle.
>Canada just has it worse than the USA since they seem to have a larger
>portion of their homes being bought by people who actually live over
>seas. Largely people in China trying to put their money to use outside
>of China.

No question that's a major problem in Vancouver (which is both
Canada's largest seaport by a country mile and is also on the west
coast) both by Chinese (and I'm excluding the diaspora here - in other
words I mean people actually living in the PRC) acting singly and in
REITs (real estate investment trusts) since due to the tax system
Chinese buy real estate in Canada in untaxed dollars while Canadians
can only buy based on after-tax dollars.

I am on a first name basis with several local politicians and I know
our mayor cringes when I say yet again that something is badly broken
when my childrens' best hope of home ownership involves me dying.

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 12:11:00 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>Actually, we DO have (more-or-less) fixed election dates both federally
>and in some provinces, including mine, BUT I saw a story recently that
>the feds are developing legislation to delay the next federal election
>by approximately a week. (I didn't see a proper explanation but I
>strongly suspect it is to ensure that those who got elected in the 2019
>election have just over 6 years in Parliament so they qualify for those
>very generous pensions.) I had not realized that our feds even had the
>ability to adjust election dates that way and I'm really not very happy
>about it.

There's no such things as fixed election dates when there's a minority
government (e.g. when there are more than 2 parties and the top party
has a plurality not a majority in the House) as Canada has had since
2019.

Politicians can SAY 'the next election will be on _________' but
unless they actually have a majority there's no guarantee and besides
you're not seriously telling me politicians never have their fingers
crossed when they speak to the public are you <evil grin>

We're in the happy position of having had neither of our past two
members having qualified for one of those obscenely cushy pensions but
our current MP is both a cabinet minister and someone who WILL get a
pension should he gain re-election this time which is by no means
guaranteed.

Obscenely = "gets severance pay (which if memory serves is about a
year's pay for a 2 term MP) BEFORE that pension kicks in"

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 02:23:40 -0700
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 12:11:00 -0400, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
> >Actually, we DO have (more-or-less) fixed election dates both
> >federally and in some provinces, including mine, BUT I saw a story
> >recently that the feds are developing legislation to delay the next
> >federal election by approximately a week. (I didn't see a proper
> >explanation but I strongly suspect it is to ensure that those who
> >got elected in the 2019 election have just over 6 years in
> >Parliament so they qualify for those very generous pensions.) I had
> >not realized that our feds even had the ability to adjust election
> >dates that way and I'm really not very happy about it.
>
> There's no such things as fixed election dates when there's a minority
> government (e.g. when there are more than 2 parties and the top party
> has a plurality not a majority in the House) as Canada has had since
> 2019.
>
I think we have the same (correct) understanding of how elections work
in this country, we're just quibbling about the terms.

Perhaps a phrasing that we can agree on is that no federal
government in this country, whether it has a majority or a minority, can
now have a term longer than 4 years. (It used to be 5 years.) However,
a minority government may call an earlier election if it thinks it can
better its seat count. (Has a majority government ever gone to the
polls early to improve its seat count? I can't think of one but I
suppose it might have happened.) And, of course, a minority government
can be defeated if enough of the smaller parties get together and get a
larger vote count on a confidence measure.

> Politicians can SAY 'the next election will be on _________' but
> unless they actually have a majority there's no guarantee and besides
> you're not seriously telling me politicians never have their fingers
> crossed when they speak to the public are you <evil grin>
>
> We're in the happy position of having had neither of our past two
> members having qualified for one of those obscenely cushy pensions but
> our current MP is both a cabinet minister and someone who WILL get a
> pension should he gain re-election this time which is by no means
> guaranteed.
>
> Obscenely = "gets severance pay (which if memory serves is about a
> year's pay for a 2 term MP) BEFORE that pension kicks in"

They get "severance pay" AND the pension?? I didn't know about the
severance pay portion. I've NEVER been happy about parliamentarians
setting their own salaries but this just makes me unhappier about it! I
remember when the current system was being conceived and someone or
another proposed that MP salaries be set by some independent body but
couldn't get Parliament to go for that - unsurprisingly.

--
Rhino

On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:01:36 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>They get "severance pay" AND the pension?? I didn't know about the
>severance pay portion. I've NEVER been happy about parliamentarians
>setting their own salaries but this just makes me unhappier about it! I
>remember when the current system was being conceived and someone or
>another proposed that MP salaries be set by some independent body but
>couldn't get Parliament to go for that - unsurprisingly.

I'm pretty sure that's what my (recently) "involuntarily retired" MP
told me....