George J. Dance wrote:
>
> I just ran into this post, buried down in another thread; and I don't want to answer it there, where any discussion will immediately be buried. I do think it calls for a reply though, since most of what it says about aapc Facebook (aapcF) is at best misleading, and some is completely incorrect.
>
> On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 1:12:39 AM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 11:56:08 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > She's a malicious troll, any unbiased reader can see that.
>
> "She" refers to NG, an aapc Usenet (aapcU) poster who tried to join AAPC Facebook a couple of years ago, but whose request to join was never approved. That story has been recycled several times since, usually without any context, and this was the case this time as well. I'll provide some of that context below.
>
> > And readers see how Zod is just as nasty but isn't barred because he with Will's gang that controls the FB page even though they want no control over their selves here, kiss AAPC farceBk good bye.
>
> Here's an error of fact. Zod is not a member of "AAPC farceBk", and never has been. That's purely by his own choice; AFAIK, he doesn't use facebook at all. If he requested to join, I'd approve him; I'd approve anyone from aapcU - with one notable exception. But again I'll save that for later. The important point to emphasize here is that AW has no idea who is on aapcF, who posts there, or what gets posted.
>
> > Reader, make note that AAPC FB is run and occupied by Will's gang, most members of AAPC here are excluded
>
> The first clause has some truth to it. "Will's gang", in AW's preferred narrative, means "Will, Zod, and me," and it is true that Will and I are the admins of aapcF - we approve who gets to join, and (in theory) what posts are approved. Which does not mean that we exclude others - with that one mentioned exception I'll get to, anyone can join aapc and post there. New people who join must have their posts approved (you'd be surprised how many join a group just to promote money-making scams they're involved in), but for those posting their own poetry or starting conversations about poetry, approval is virtually automatic and after a few months becomes literally automatic; those people's messages are all pre-approved.
>
> If there are aapcU lurkers here who do not post their own poetry here because they find the warlike atmosphere intimidating, they - you - may find aapcF a better place to do so. We would welcome you.
>
> > by those that also use no moderation for their control here but as true hypocrites, use moderation to control AAPC members that are not part of Will's gang, on AAPC FB.
>
> Of the 5 aapcU members who made the original jump to aapcF, one is dead; 2 are "Will's gang" (who can't be both controllers and controlled). The other 2, Tom and Ilya, are pre-approved for their posts.
>
> The idea that there are aapcU members being "controlled" on aapcF is a bizarre fiction. AW is describing something that simply does not exist. No one is controlling anyone or their content on aapcF. If you do choose to join and post there, no one will be trying to control yours. .
>
> > I find it amusing some time ago that you were all worried about being excluded from a new AAPC, but you do the exact thing you condemn. You think people are that stupid not to see what you do?
>
> Once again, there is a grain of truth to that; as noted, despite the abovve fine fine words, from me, I have excluded someone from aapcF, and I would exclude others if they applied. I'll explain who those are and why, and let the reader decide my decision is hypocritical and stupid, or not.
>
> The people excluded are Jim Senetto (under any of his various pseudonyms); NG, the one person already excluded; and ME. In keeping with AW's terminology, I'll refer to them as "Jim's gang" for short. Not that they're all on the same page; each has their own agenda. Jim wants a dickfight with Will over who's the Poet Laureate of aapc; ME is here to troll Will (no different from Family Guy); while NG came here to troll a different aapcU poster, Stephan Pickering; SP's death has left them with no purpose here.
>
> After the war between "Will's gang" and "Jim's gang" began here, SP (who was under constant attack on aapcU as a member of "Will's gang") made the switch to aapcF, and was able to start posting his stuff there in peace. That understandably enraged NG, who hatched a plot to take down aapcF. Their strategy, which is on record because they posted about it on aapcU, was simple:
>
> First, "Jim's gang" should all join aapcF. Then, they should constantly report posts on it to FB admin. (FB takes complaints about groups from group members quite seriously, and will take action.) The hope was that, if they generated enough complaints. FB would shut down the group.
>
> If there ever was a reason to keep someone out of a group, surely joining with the intent to destroy the group had to be it. So I decided that NG would not be approved, under that name or under any pseudonyms. Fortunately, Will agreed. As fortunately, although NG did apply repeatedly to join, as NG, they did not try to join by stealth.
>
> And that's the full story, which I hope is a bit more interesting than the version we keep getting.
>
> > Or do you think you propaganda campaign of setting the record straight will control people like Geobbels did for the Nazis?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Where was NancyGene, when she should have helped correct Ash? ^^^^^^

---

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:02:46 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Here is a good example of "feigning literacy." [someone] vaguely knows the name, and doesn't recognize when it is misspelled:

---

> Well, no, the opposite. The Goebbels technique, the "Big Lie," rested on people hearing only one and only one version of events (the official version), constantly, so that that became something "everybody knows." The "setting the record straight" strategy, OTOH, is to counter that official version with an alternative version, so that people hear more than the official version, and are then free and more able to make up their own minds on it.
>
> > I believe you have been studying up on Communist and fascist propaganda techniques on Wikipedia. Another for the Google search results for setting the record straight.
>
> Indeed; and, if those searches result in this post turning up, my time working on this post will be time well spent. It's a self-illustrating example. On the one hand, we have a Big Lie: that Will and his "gang" set up a facebook group to keep everyone else out. On the other, we have "setting the record straight: the true story, that aapcF is a place for aapcU poets (and others) who want some shelter from the aapcU storm, a place for writers to reach readers, and so far it's working as planned; as witness the fact that all of the original 5 still living are still posting there.

See above, NancyGene. ^^^^^^^^^^^

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.

You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 12:08:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >
> > > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.
> You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?

So do you-- perhaps even most every day-- but you usually delete or try to post edit correct them out of obvious embarrassment... and now one is allowed to point them out, because you will label them as trolls-- so you Sir Spamalot and your crew, are trolls also-- by your very own declarations and definition of "troll".

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 7:58:40 PM UTC, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 12:08:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.
> > You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?
> So do you-- perhaps even most every day-- but you usually delete or try to post edit correct them out of obvious embarrassment... and now one is allowed to point them out, because you will label them as trolls-- so you Sir Spamalot and your crew, are trolls also-- by your very own declarations and definition of "troll".

He is a fake and he knows it. He hates it when people point out that he is fake, stupid, vain, and ill-educated.

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 12:08:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
>> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> > Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.
>> You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?

> So do you-- perhaps even most every day-- but you usually delete or try to post edit correct them o

Of course when one makes a mistake, one should correct the mistake, Ash... even you should grok that idea.. Ha ha.

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> >
> > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.

You cannot expect any better from someone who doesn't know what the concept of having principles is, he does everything that he says is wrong to do, he does everything that he labels as trolling by others. By his own definitions, he is wrong and a troll.
Also, would someone point out to that whippin' fool, that that misspelling WAS FROM TWO YEARS AGO!
Ash Wurthing
May 21, 2021, 1:12:39 AM
And readers see how Zod is just as nasty but isn't barred because he with Will's gang that controls the FB page even though they want no control over their selves here, kiss AAPC farceBk good bye.
Reader, make note that AAPC FB is run and occupied by Will's gang, most members of AAPC here are excluded by those that also use no moderation for their control here but as true hypocrites, use moderation to control AAPC members that are not part of Will's gang, on AAPC FB.
I find it amusing some time ago that you were all worried about being excluded from a new AAPC, but you do the exact thing you condemn. You think people are that stupid not to see what you do? Or do you think you propaganda campaign of setting the record straight will control people like Geobbels did for the Nazis? I believe you have been studying up on Communist and fascist propaganda techniques on Wikipedia. Another for the Google search results for setting the record straight.
- - -

So I may have misspelled the name, but Google Groups search only shows three times, and two of them seem to my quote sections with someone else's misspelling:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/search?q=geobbels%20author%3Aash

But can anyone really trust Dance, or Will, who are known for altering quote sections of his posts? From Dance who, even after what he bases his false assertions against me, are false and he acknowledges it, but doesn't retract his false assertion? From Will who puts words in my mouth by stating as fact that I said "All the World's a stage," when the post he referred to said "They say the World's a stage."

Hell Yeah, proof reading is a laborious process-- I have to have my computer set up specially so I can use it "visually" (without resorting to just audio/screen reading) and must go over things a single word at a time, while fighting my brain's tendency to supply it's 'auto suggest' for words if just visually scanned over-- but worth it, even when it fails...

So to my foes:
Shall I dare write a rhyme
on their spam- the supposed sublime
"greatness" of the poetry godhood
of proud "real" poetry's falsehood?

You see, I'm all for the brawl, I just love the writing that's inspired when the furor is flying. When things are too entrenched, too self-vested, the animosity now too deeply ingrained for anyone not to rub each other wrong....
So rather than curse, I shall put it into verse
and read it aloud the way that war drums pound
with a menacing beat, like done on the street
like it would be done to your skull 'n your lame droll,,,

I dare to do, unlike whippin' fools. A struggle to do what they take for granted but still I must do or languish, to rot and slowly perish.
I dare to do, so there will be snafus... and what does it matter to an illiterate fools who thinks that other people's writing, the words of great Black statesmen, just looks like "gibberish"?
I dare to do, so plenty of mistakes will be made. Mistakes are something meant to be corrected and learned from-- except to nit picking nit wits, hen pecking tatty whacks who have nothing better to do other than blowing their big "real" poetry egos...

So the words will fly wild and there will be misfires. And verb jams. And ill planned wham-bam-thank-you-ma'ams...
Stop the presses! This mess of grammar incorrectness must be redressed! Cases, clauses and misnomer charges must be pressed!

But words I boldly sow
sometimes they grow
sometimes they blow
You know, homophones and typos
as we all know, that's how it goes
like spitting as the wind blows
you end up looking not so proud
Now, if you would so kindly allow,
I must go wipe off my brow.

~~heh heh, I had my personal work digital collection, AFWT, assemble and stream that from three years worth of assorted posts for me...

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 4:35:15 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> Ash Wurthing wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 12:08:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> >> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> > Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.
> >> You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?
>
> > So do you-- perhaps even most every day-- but you usually delete or try to post edit correct them o
> Of course when one makes a mistake, one should correct the mistake, Ash.... even you should grok that idea.. Ha ha.

First, you cannot grok that you cannot correct errors on Usenet, unless you repost and that doesn't correct the original error. You make fun of, and say should be corrected, errors on posts that cannot be edited. You're a hypocrite about correcting, because you keep laming errors even after they get corrected. And that's because you're merely trolls that can only elevate their selves by imaginary victories of typo laming when it's you fools that are the masters of typos.

I don't believe you know what you troll about, fool. Your buddy was the one that told Ilya that he didn't have to correct "and I and you" if he didn't want to. He's the one calling someone's work "garbage," -- work that is written so much better than his, and Karen agreed with me on that. With fools like you advising on errors and such, one doesn't need enemies.

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 8:47:53 PM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 4:35:15 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 12:08:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> > >> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >> > Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.
> > >> You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?
> >
> > > So do you-- perhaps even most every day-- but you usually delete or try to post edit correct them o
> > Of course when one makes a mistake, one should correct the mistake, Ash.... even you should grok that idea.. Ha ha.
> First, you cannot grok that you cannot correct errors on Usenet

Sure you can.

🙂

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 8:53:41 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 8:47:53 PM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 4:35:15 PM UTC-4, General-Zod wrote:
> > > Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 12:08:15 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> > > >> > On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 3:45:02 PM UTC, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Again, Ash spells the name "Goebbels" incorrectly. ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > >> > Ash is legally blind, and it is extremely difficult for him to proofread what he posts. You (Will Dockery) are not blind, to our knowledge. Additionally, just because others misspell a word or name, that does not excuse your doing it. That's petty and immature.
> > > >> You've made some good ones, yourself, remember?
> > >
> > > > So do you-- perhaps even most every day-- but you usually delete or try to post edit correct them o
> > > Of course when one makes a mistake, one should correct the mistake, Ash... even you should grok that idea.. Ha ha.
> > First, you cannot grok that you cannot correct errors on Usenet
> Sure you can.

Right... you just demonstrate your meek understanding of reality and what is written to you.
psst, why did you delete the rest of my statement where I said you can only repost a corrected version of the post with the error? Are you trying to misrepresent me again?
I can possibly find all your posts with errors that you supposedly corrected by deleting them from GG, like you have dug up others deleted posts... and your posts with errors is possibly in the quote section of someone else's post where you cannot post edit it away.
That's why I don't delete my old posts with errors (unless they're AYoS poem submissions)-- I'm not AFRAID of my errors and I don't want people to think I deleted a post because I did wrong or tryin' to hide something.