Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
Night; from sea foams of the world -
A shell without a pearl within it -
Upon your shores I have been hurled.

With mists the ocean you embellish
And, stuttering, you sing as well;
But you will love, and you will cherish
The pretense of a useless shell.

On ocean sands you lie next to her
You dress her in a misty haze
And with tight roping you tie to her
A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,

And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
A lonely heart that beats in vain -
You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
With fog with wind and with light rain.

By Osip Mandelshtam
Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat

On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> Perhaps you not need me not this minute,

ENGLISH, DO YOU SPEAK IT?

On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> Perhaps you not need me not this minute,

Nope.
No one ever needs this bullcrap in AAPC.

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 12:46:41 AM UTC, Family Guy wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> Nope.
> No one ever needs this bullcrap in AAPC.

However, the last word in the last line of the first stanza perfectly captures what the reader experienced: "hurled."

On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> Night; from sea foams of the world -
> A shell without a pearl within it -
> Upon your shores I have been hurled.
>
> With mists the ocean you embellish
> And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> But you will love, and you will cherish
> The pretense of a useless shell.
>
> On ocean sands you lie next to her
> You dress her in a misty haze
> And with tight roping you tie to her
> A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
>
> And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> With fog with wind and with light rain.
>
> By Osip Mandelshtam
> Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat

Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> >
> > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > The pretense of a useless shell.
> >
> > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > You dress her in a misty haze
> > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> >
> > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> >
> > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam

Unless you're fluent in Russian, you've no means of determining whether this is a good translation.

The best you can do is to say that it's a well written poem in its own right.

As an experienced reader, I stopped at the clunky inversion at the end of the opening line.

Michael Pendragon
"I find it funny in an enjoyable way."
-- Will Donkey, pontificating on enjoyable funniness vs… ?

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > >
> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > >
> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > >
> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > >
> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > >
> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> Unless you're fluent in Russian

That's why Ilya translated it, for American readers.

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:48:09 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > > >
> > > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > > >
> > > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > > >
> > > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > > >
> > > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> > Unless you're fluent in Russian
> That's why Ilya translated it, for American readers.

That's nice, Donkey.

But you cannot know if it's a good translation, unless you know how successfully it reflects the original.

You really are one dumbassed little Donkey, aren't you?

Michael Pendragon
H C: Gullible' Isn't In the Dictionary

WILL DONKEY: That's a surprise.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:48:09 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
>> > > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
>> > > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
>> > > > A shell without a pearl within it -
>> > > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
>> > > >
>> > > > With mists the ocean you embellish
>> > > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
>> > > > But you will love, and you will cherish
>> > > > The pretense of a useless shell.
>> > > >
>> > > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
>> > > > You dress her in a misty haze
>> > > > And with tight roping you tie to her
>> > > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
>> > > >
>> > > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
>> > > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
>> > > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
>> > > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
>> > > >
>> > > > By Osip Mandelshtam
>> > > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
>> > > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
>> > > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
>> > Unless you're fluent in Russian
>> That's why Ilya translated it, for American readers.

>

> But you cannot know if it's a good translation

It's well written = good.

HTH and HAND.

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 12:20:02 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:48:09 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> >> > > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> >> > > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> >> > > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> >> > > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> >> > > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> >> > > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> >> > > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> >> > > > You dress her in a misty haze
> >> > > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> >> > > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> >> > > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> >> > > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> >> > > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> >> > > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> >> > > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> >> > > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> >> > Unless you're fluent in Russian
> >> That's why Ilya translated it, for American readers.
>
> >
> > But you cannot know if it's a good translation
> It's well written = good.

OMFG! Could you possibly be any more stupid?

A "good translation" is a translation that captures as much of the meaning, mood, feel, form, tone, etc., of the original.

For example: in Euripides' "Medea," the title character expresses her anger and contempt by saying "esosa se esosa hos isasi hosoi." The line is a single protracted hiss.

A "good translation" of this line would include a strong emphasis on sibilants to recreate the hissing sound that Euripides intended.

If you pick up a copy of "Medea," and are unfamiliar with the original, you would have nothing to compare the translation to. You would read "I saved your life!" and never know that this was originally written as a hiss.

Only someone who is well versed in both the original language and the language something is being translated into is qualified to know whether or not the translation was "good."

Michael Pendragon
"I've done the limp wristed coffeehouse thing many times, and hands
down, they prefer me, a man of action, over a limp wristed coffee
sipping academic wannabe... not that there's anything "wrong" with
being that. *smirk*"
-- Will “Giggling at Gays” Dockery

Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> > > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > > >
> > > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > > >
> > > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > > >
> > > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > > >
> > > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
>
> Unless you're fluent in Russian

Like I said, that's why Ilya translated it, for American readers.

HTH and HAND.

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > >
> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > >
> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > >
> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > >
> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> Unless you're fluent in Russian

I.S. is, so there you go... ha ha.

Faraway Star wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>>
>> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
>> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
>> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
>> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
>> > >
>> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
>> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
>> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
>> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
>> > >
>> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
>> > > You dress her in a misty haze
>> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
>> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
>> > >
>> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
>> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
>> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
>> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
>> > >
>> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
>> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
>> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
>> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
>> Unless you're fluent in Russian

> I.S. is, so there you go... ha ha.

Exactly.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 6:40:15 PM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> Faraway Star wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> >> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> >> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> >> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> >> > >
> >> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> >> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> >> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> >> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> >> > >
> >> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> >> > > You dress her in a misty haze
> >> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> >> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> >> > >
> >> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> >> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> >> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> >> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> >> > >
> >> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> >> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> >> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> >> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> >> Unless you're fluent in Russian
>
> > I.S. is, so there you go... ha ha.
> Exactly.

Then I.S. can tell us whether he believes it's a good translation or not.

But Stinky George and Will Donkey have no means of judging this for themselves.

HtH & HAND

Michael Pendragon
"I've been hanging out with the snuggliest love-balls and it's spectacular."
-- Clay Dockery ("Not that there's anything wrong with that.")

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 7:26:31 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 6:40:15 PM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> > Faraway Star wrote:
> >
> > > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > >> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > >> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > >> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > >> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > >> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > >> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > >> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > >> > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > >> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > >> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > >> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > >> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > >> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > >> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > >> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > >> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> > >> Unless you're fluent in Russian
> >
> > > I.S. is, so there you go... ha ha.
> > Exactly.
> Then I.S. can tell us whether he believes it's a good translation

Ilya wrote it, so I expect he thinks he did a great job.

HTH and HAND.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 7:36:12 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 7:26:31 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 6:40:15 PM UTC-4, W.Dockery wrote:
> > > Faraway Star wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > > >> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > > >> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > > >> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > > >> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > > >> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > > >> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > > >> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > > >> > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > > >> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > > >> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > > >> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > > >> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > > >> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > > >> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > > >> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > > >> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> > > >> Unless you're fluent in Russian
> > >
> > > > I.S. is, so there you go... ha ha.
> > > Exactly.
> > Then I.S. can tell us whether he believes it's a good translation
> Ilya wrote it, so I expect he thinks he did a great job.

I'm sure he does.

Unfortunately, Ilya's proficiency with English leaves something to be desired.

However, you seem to be incapable of grasping the point: that a "good translation" is one that faithfully recreates the original poem (insofar as this is possible) in a different language.

Neither you nor Stinky, who don't speak Russian, and barely speak English, are qualified to comment.

As always, HtH & HAND

Michael Pendragon
"I do have a poem that appeared in my first chapbook, summer 1983, that blew it all out of the water, as the poem describes me 'going down' on a girl I knew while we were riding to work one morning, and I used the word for vagina that starts with a 'p' in the poem, one line in the poem states that I ate it as she drove... my wife of course read it. We split up for months, but I just now had it dawn on me that it might have been this poem, 'Jo Cairo', depicting an event that did not happen with us, as almost always it was me getting the head, since most of the time I was driving.... My first son, Clay, was only five years old in 1983, but of course he would soon read my poetry book, and wonder 'Did dad eat a cat?'"

From "Will Dockery: The Atlanta Years -- (1980/1983)."

Michael Pendragon wrote:
> Will Dockery wrote:
> > Faraway Star wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:38:11 PM UTC-4, Faraway Star wrote:
> > > >> > On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 8:05:29 PM UTC-4, Ilya Shambat wrote:
>
> > > >> > > Perhaps you not need me not this minute,
> > > >> > > Night; from sea foams of the world -
> > > >> > > A shell without a pearl within it -
> > > >> > > Upon your shores I have been hurled.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > With mists the ocean you embellish
> > > >> > > And, stuttering, you sing as well;
> > > >> > > But you will love, and you will cherish
> > > >> > > The pretense of a useless shell.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On ocean sands you lie next to her
> > > >> > > You dress her in a misty haze
> > > >> > > And with tight roping you tie to her
> > > >> > > A bell, gigantic, made of bronze,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > And then the seashell, fragile, empty -
> > > >> > > A lonely heart that beats in vain -
> > > >> > > You fill with sea foam's whispers plenty,
> > > >> > > With fog with wind and with light rain.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > By Osip Mandelshtam
> > > >> > > Translated from Russian by Ilya Shambat
> > > >> > > https://sites.google.com/site/ibshambat
> > > >> > Another good selection. translation of Osip Mandelshtam
> > > >> Unless you're fluent in Russian
> > >
> > > > I.S. is, so there you go... ha ha.
> > > Exactly.
> > Then I.S. can tell us whether he believes it's a good translation
> Ilya wrote it, so I expect he thinks he did a great job.
>
> HTH and HAND.
>
> I'm sure he does

Agreed.