We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):

THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
By Arthur Stringer

Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
One mournful-noted song that fills
The dusky twilight, and with snow.

O shower of tears, as music known to us,
O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
And beauty, half regret and pain?
--
The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.

----------
Then there is this version:

THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER

ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
One mournful-noted song that fills
The twilight, lonely grown with snow.

O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
O song that some vague sadness of farewell
Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
dreams
Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
--
The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”

Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).

We think we like the first version better.

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
>
> THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> By Arthur Stringer
>
> Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> One mournful-noted song that fills
> The dusky twilight, and with snow.
>
> O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> And beauty, half regret and pain?
> --
> The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
>
> ----------
> Then there is this version:
>
> THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
>
> ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> One mournful-noted song that fills
> The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
>
> O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> dreams
> Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> --
> The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
>
> Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
>
> We think we like the first version better.

I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:

THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN

Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
A mournful-noted song that fills
The lonely twilight, white with snow.

O shower of sound that more than music seems,
O song that some vague sadness of farewell
Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?

One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.

A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.

The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."

Michael Pendragon
“You don't even understand how to use deodorant, Duckery. You can't try to
tell anyone else how the world works.”
-- Orson Wells as CitizenCain to Will Dockery

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
> >
> > THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > By Arthur Stringer
> >
> > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > The dusky twilight, and with snow.
> >
> > O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> > O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> > Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> > And beauty, half regret and pain?
> > --
> > The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
> >
> > ----------
> > Then there is this version:
> >
> > THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> >
> > ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
> >
> > O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> > dreams
> > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > --
> > The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
> >
> > Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
> >
> > We think we like the first version better.
> I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:
>
>
> THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN
> Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> A mournful-noted song that fills
> The lonely twilight, white with snow.
>
> O shower of sound that more than music seems,
> O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
> Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?

We like the 2023 version better than the 1900 and 1907 versions.

> One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.
He was Canadian.
>
> A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.

That's why we liked the original poem better. It was stripped (mostly) of the detritus.
>
> The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."

Was Stringer "influenced" by Poe? We like "and beauty, half regret and pain" as a line.
>
>
> Michael Pendragon
> “You don't even understand how to use deodorant, Duckery. You can't try to
> tell anyone else how the world works.”
> -- Orson Wells as CitizenCain to Will Dockery

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:19:59 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
> > >
> > > THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > By Arthur Stringer
> > >
> > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > The dusky twilight, and with snow.
> > >
> > > O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> > > O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> > > Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> > > And beauty, half regret and pain?
> > > --
> > > The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > Then there is this version:
> > >
> > > THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > >
> > > ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
> > >
> > > O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> > > dreams
> > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > --
> > > The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
> > >
> > > Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
> > >
> > > We think we like the first version better.
> > I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:
> >
> >
> > THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN
> > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > A mournful-noted song that fills
> > The lonely twilight, white with snow.
> >
> > O shower of sound that more than music seems,
> > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
> > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> We like the 2023 version better than the 1900 and 1907 versions.

:)

> > One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.
> He was Canadian.

That explains a lot. Of course, one must except Bliss Carman who must have secretly been an American living in exile.

> > A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.
> That's why we liked the original poem better. It was stripped (mostly) of the detritus.

Both are overloaded with the same, repetitive adjectives. Could Mr. Stringer have been an ancestor of the Chase family?

> > The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."
> Was Stringer "influenced" by Poe?

Name a 20th century poet who wasn't influenced by Poe to some degree?

> We like "and beauty, half regret and pain" as a line.

It's good, but lacks the definitiveness to serve as the closing line.

"Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?" reads like a rhetorical question -- a pronouncement couched in question form; whereas "and beauty, half regret and pain?" cries out for another line to follow it..

Michael Pendragon
“As I've said before, I haven't seen anyone here (except Meat Plow)
claiming they could ‘beat’ you at what you do. I really doubt whether
anyone else would /want/ to do anything like what you do. In fact, I'm
not at all clear on what it is you actually /do/, or think you do, and
I have even less of an idea what your parameters for success are. I'm
pretty sure I could scribble down some random shit, and then stand, or
stagger, in front of a mike and mumble it incomprehensibly to a
musical backing, if there was some reasonable inducement to do so, but
maybe that's not the idea. Maybe there's something else involved. All
I can say is that whatever it is you do, it doesn't carry well onto
Usenet, and it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with anything I can
identify as ‘poetry’.”
-- Gerard Ian Lewis

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 6:18:26 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:19:59 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
> > > >
> > > > THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > By Arthur Stringer
> > > >
> > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > The dusky twilight, and with snow.
> > > >
> > > > O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> > > > O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> > > > Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> > > > And beauty, half regret and pain?
> > > > --
> > > > The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > Then there is this version:
> > > >
> > > > THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > >
> > > > ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
> > > >
> > > > O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> > > > dreams
> > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > > --
> > > > The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
> > > >
> > > > Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
> > > >
> > > > We think we like the first version better.
> > > I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:
> > >
> > >
> > > THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN
> > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > A mournful-noted song that fills
> > > The lonely twilight, white with snow.
> > >
> > > O shower of sound that more than music seems,
> > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
> > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > We like the 2023 version better than the 1900 and 1907 versions.
> :)

Thank you for not saying that it was a "good find."

> > > One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.
> > He was Canadian.
> That explains a lot. Of course, one must except Bliss Carman who must have secretly been an American living in exile.

He never admitted to being Canadian. He was North American.

> > > A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.
> > That's why we liked the original poem better. It was stripped (mostly) of the detritus.
> Both are overloaded with the same, repetitive adjectives. Could Mr. Stringer have been an ancestor of the Chase family?

We will consult Ancestry.com for his lineage, but Mr. Stringer worked, didn't he?

> > > The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."
> > Was Stringer "influenced" by Poe?
> Name a 20th century poet who wasn't influenced by Poe to some degree?

The Pissbums of Columbus.

> > We like "and beauty, half regret and pain" as a line.
> It's good, but lacks the definitiveness to serve as the closing line.

Maybe he needed a third stanza to complete his thought? He could say, in some words, that beauty is half regret and half pain.
>
> "Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?" reads like a rhetorical question -- a pronouncement couched in question form; whereas "and beauty, half regret and pain?" cries out for another line to follow it.

"So I put my finger in her hole."
>
>
> Michael Pendragon
> “As I've said before, I haven't seen anyone here (except Meat Plow)
> claiming they could ‘beat’ you at what you do. I really doubt whether
> anyone else would /want/ to do anything like what you do. In fact, I'm
> not at all clear on what it is you actually /do/, or think you do, and
> I have even less of an idea what your parameters for success are. I'm
> pretty sure I could scribble down some random shit, and then stand, or
> stagger, in front of a mike and mumble it incomprehensibly to a
> musical backing, if there was some reasonable inducement to do so, but
> maybe that's not the idea. Maybe there's something else involved. All
> I can say is that whatever it is you do, it doesn't carry well onto
> Usenet, and it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with anything I can
> identify as ‘poetry’.”
> -- Gerard Ian Lewis
Mr. Lewis "nailed it."

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:31:38 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 6:18:26 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:19:59 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > > We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
> > > > >
> > > > > THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > > By Arthur Stringer
> > > > >
> > > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > > Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > The dusky twilight, and with snow.
> > > > >
> > > > > O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> > > > > O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> > > > > Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> > > > > And beauty, half regret and pain?
> > > > > --
> > > > > The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > Then there is this version:
> > > > >
> > > > > THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > >
> > > > > ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> > > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
> > > > >
> > > > > O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> > > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> > > > > dreams
> > > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > > > --
> > > > > The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
> > > > >
> > > > > Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
> > > > >
> > > > > We think we like the first version better.
> > > > I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN
> > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > A mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > The lonely twilight, white with snow.
> > > >
> > > > O shower of sound that more than music seems,
> > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
> > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > We like the 2023 version better than the 1900 and 1907 versions.
> > :)
> Thank you for not saying that it was a "good find."

Perhaps Mr. Dunce will use that edit for his blaaaarrrggghhh.

> > > > One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.
> > > He was Canadian.
> > That explains a lot. Of course, one must except Bliss Carman who must have secretly been an American living in exile.
> He never admitted to being Canadian. He was North American.

I shall refer to his as such from hereon.

> > > > A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.
> > > That's why we liked the original poem better. It was stripped (mostly) of the detritus.
> > Both are overloaded with the same, repetitive adjectives. Could Mr. Stringer have been an ancestor of the Chase family?
> We will consult Ancestry.com for his lineage, but Mr. Stringer worked, didn't he?

I'm sure that some Chase ancestor must have worked at some time -- after all, the family allegedly has accumulated enough wealth to support its retarded members.

> > > > The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."
> > > Was Stringer "influenced" by Poe?
> > Name a 20th century poet who wasn't influenced by Poe to some degree?
> The Pissbums of Columbus.

Unfair! The Pissbums of Columbus are *not* poets.

> > > We like "and beauty, half regret and pain" as a line.
> > It's good, but lacks the definitiveness to serve as the closing line.
> Maybe he needed a third stanza to complete his thought? He could say, in some words, that beauty is half regret and half pain.

He certainly need another stanza to justify his thought. Simply having heard a sad birdsong in November doesn't justify the pronouncement that much of beauty is half regret and pain.
> > "Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?" reads like a rhetorical question -- a pronouncement couched in question form; whereas "and beauty, half regret and pain?" cries out for another line to follow it.
> "So I put my finger in her hole."

In some strange and twisted way, that actually works.

> >
> >
> > Michael Pendragon
> > “As I've said before, I haven't seen anyone here (except Meat Plow)
> > claiming they could ‘beat’ you at what you do. I really doubt whether
> > anyone else would /want/ to do anything like what you do. In fact, I'm
> > not at all clear on what it is you actually /do/, or think you do, and
> > I have even less of an idea what your parameters for success are. I'm
> > pretty sure I could scribble down some random shit, and then stand, or
> > stagger, in front of a mike and mumble it incomprehensibly to a
> > musical backing, if there was some reasonable inducement to do so, but
> > maybe that's not the idea. Maybe there's something else involved. All
> > I can say is that whatever it is you do, it doesn't carry well onto
> > Usenet, and it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with anything I can
> > identify as ‘poetry’.”
> > -- Gerard Ian Lewis
> Mr. Lewis "nailed it."

He's just one in a long parade of poets who's come to a similar conclusion.

Michael Pendragon
"You write spam, Dockery. Spam. You write 200 posts a day without a
single interesting thought in them. You think you have the right to
flood countless groups with this Spam because...well, eh,...because.....
because you like to call yourself a poet."
-- M.H. Benders

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 6:46:33 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:31:38 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 6:18:26 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:19:59 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > > > We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > > > By Arthur Stringer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > > > Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > > The dusky twilight, and with snow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> > > > > > O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> > > > > > Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> > > > > > And beauty, half regret and pain?
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > Then there is this version:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> > > > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > > The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> > > > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> > > > > > dreams
> > > > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We think we like the first version better.
> > > > > I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN
> > > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > A mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > The lonely twilight, white with snow.
> > > > >
> > > > > O shower of sound that more than music seems,
> > > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
> > > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > > We like the 2023 version better than the 1900 and 1907 versions.
> > > :)
> > Thank you for not saying that it was a "good find."
> Perhaps Mr. Dunce will use that edit for his blaaaarrrggghhh.

Undoubtedly. We don't visit his blaarrrrggghhh, but he does tend to borrow other people's work. We see that he posted a few lines from a poem by Arthur Stringer. We didn't read his post, but we are sure that our post was more informative than his, which was just trying to hijack people to his blaarrrrgggh.

> > > > > One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.
> > > > He was Canadian.
> > > That explains a lot. Of course, one must except Bliss Carman who must have secretly been an American living in exile.
> > He never admitted to being Canadian. He was North American.
> I shall refer to his as such from hereon.
According to sources, he spent most of his life in the U.S. He even died in the U.S. His ashes were returned to Canada against their will.

> > > > > A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.
> > > > That's why we liked the original poem better. It was stripped (mostly) of the detritus.
> > > Both are overloaded with the same, repetitive adjectives. Could Mr. Stringer have been an ancestor of the Chase family?
> > We will consult Ancestry.com for his lineage, but Mr. Stringer worked, didn't he?
> I'm sure that some Chase ancestor must have worked at some time -- after all, the family allegedly has accumulated enough wealth to support its retarded members.
Inheritance taxes will doom them. Poor little Jordy, on his own selling cannabis and his uncle selling flesh.

> > > > > The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."
> > > > Was Stringer "influenced" by Poe?
> > > Name a 20th century poet who wasn't influenced by Poe to some degree?
> > The Pissbums of Columbus.
> Unfair! The Pissbums of Columbus are *not* poets.
True, but they claim to have been under the influence.

> > > > We like "and beauty, half regret and pain" as a line.
> > > It's good, but lacks the definitiveness to serve as the closing line.
> > Maybe he needed a third stanza to complete his thought? He could say, in some words, that beauty is half regret and half pain.
> He certainly need another stanza to justify his thought. Simply having heard a sad birdsong in November doesn't justify the pronouncement that much of beauty is half regret and pain.
A song in the bird is worth two in the busk (old Chinese proverb).

> > > "Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?" reads like a rhetorical question -- a pronouncement couched in question form; whereas "and beauty, half regret and pain?" cries out for another line to follow it.
> > "So I put my finger in her hole."
> In some strange and twisted way, that actually works.
We were inspired by the Ghost of Lady K.

> > >
> > >
> > > Michael Pendragon
> > > “As I've said before, I haven't seen anyone here (except Meat Plow)
> > > claiming they could ‘beat’ you at what you do. I really doubt whether
> > > anyone else would /want/ to do anything like what you do. In fact, I'm
> > > not at all clear on what it is you actually /do/, or think you do, and
> > > I have even less of an idea what your parameters for success are. I'm
> > > pretty sure I could scribble down some random shit, and then stand, or
> > > stagger, in front of a mike and mumble it incomprehensibly to a
> > > musical backing, if there was some reasonable inducement to do so, but
> > > maybe that's not the idea. Maybe there's something else involved. All
> > > I can say is that whatever it is you do, it doesn't carry well onto
> > > Usenet, and it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with anything I can
> > > identify as ‘poetry’.”
> > > -- Gerard Ian Lewis
> > Mr. Lewis "nailed it."
> He's just one in a long parade of poets who's come to a similar conclusion.
He can't even talk. His extemporaneous "speeches" are trailing off mumbles..

>
>
> Michael Pendragon
> "You write spam, Dockery. Spam. You write 200 posts a day without a
> single interesting thought in them. You think you have the right to
> flood countless groups with this Spam because...well, eh,...because.....
> because you like to call yourself a poet."
> -- M.H. Benders

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 4:23:45 PM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 6:46:33 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:31:38 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 6:18:26 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:19:59 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 5:08:51 AM UTC+14, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:22:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > > > > > > We found two different versions of this poem by Arthur Stringer (1874-1950):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > THE SONG-SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > > > > By Arthur Stringer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > > > > Floats sweetly-solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > > > The dusky twilight, and with snow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O shower of tears, as music known to us,
> > > > > > > O songs that fall as Autumn rain,
> > > > > > > Is all earth’s music born of sorrow thus,
> > > > > > > And beauty, half regret and pain?
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > The above was first published in “Ainslee’s Magazine,” Vol. VI, No. 1, August 1900, p. 362.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > > Then there is this version:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > THE SONG – SPARROW IN NOVEMBER
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ALONE, forlorn, blown down autumnal hills,
> > > > > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > > > One mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > > > The twilight, lonely grown with snow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O shower of sound that more than Music seems,
> > > > > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! – must all our
> > > > > > > dreams
> > > > > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > The above version was published in “The Woman in the Rain and Other Poems by Arthur Stringer, Author of ‘The Wire Tappers’ ‘Phantom Wires,’ Etc., Boston, Little, Brown, and Company, 1907.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Autumn has changed to autumnal and flown to the first line, replacing November. Twilight is no longer dusky, but is now lonely. There is a shower of sound instead of tears. The songs are sad and say farewell. Leaves are crowned along with the tears from the first version. Dreams make an appearance, Beauty is deep, and sorrow comes from the first version but is no longer born (but made?).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We think we like the first version better.
> > > > > > I prefer the second, though both have their share of flaws. Here's a 2023 edit that corrects several of them:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > THE SONG -- SPARROW IN AUTUMN
> > > > > > Alone, forlorn, blown down November hills,
> > > > > > Floats sweetly solemn, fond and low,
> > > > > > A mournful-noted song that fills
> > > > > > The lonely twilight, white with snow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > O shower of sound that more than music seems,
> > > > > > O song that some vague sadness of farewell
> > > > > > Leaves crowned and warm with tears! Must all our dreams
> > > > > > Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?
> > > > > We like the 2023 version better than the 1900 and 1907 versions.
> > > > :)
> > > Thank you for not saying that it was a "good find."
> > Perhaps Mr. Dunce will use that edit for his blaaaarrrggghhh.
> Undoubtedly. We don't visit his blaarrrrggghhh, but he does tend to borrow other people's work. We see that he posted a few lines from a poem by Arthur Stringer. We didn't read his post, but we are sure that our post was more informative than his, which was just trying to hijack people to his blaarrrrgggh.
>

That's one thing that Mr. Dunce seems incapable of figuring out -- that his PPB posts would be more interesting (and would receive more responses) if he posted the poems in their entirety, and (especially) if he offered comments and opinions on them.

Your thread on Stringer's poem has provided AAPC with an interesting literary discussion. George's thread got the following comments: 1) from Mr. Donkey: "Good find, George. I see your post got your faithful follower NancyGene busy researching the poem, which jis[sic] a good thing." Mr. Donkey later "corrected" his post, after I'd pointed out his Freudian slip. And 2) courtesy of Mr. Shitstain: "Nice pick, G.D."

> > > > > > One problem is the uneven meter. One would think that the poet would have been able to sustain the meter for a poem consisting of a meagre eight lines.
> > > > > He was Canadian.
> > > > That explains a lot. Of course, one must except Bliss Carman who must have secretly been an American living in exile.
> > > He never admitted to being Canadian. He was North American.
> > I shall refer to his as such from hereon.
> According to sources, he spent most of his life in the U.S. He even died in the U.S. His ashes were returned to Canada against their will.

A cautionary tale, that should inspire us all to take whatever measures are necessary to protect our remains from Canadians.

> > > > > > A second problem is that the poem is about 50% filler, variously describing the sparrow's song as "forlorn," "sweetly solemn," "fond and low," "mournful-noted," a "shower of sound," "more than music," fraught with "some vague sadness of farewell," about "leaves crowned and warm with tears." All this to express that the sparrow's song sounds sad.
> > > > > That's why we liked the original poem better. It was stripped (mostly) of the detritus.
> > > > Both are overloaded with the same, repetitive adjectives. Could Mr. Stringer have been an ancestor of the Chase family?
> > > We will consult Ancestry.com for his lineage, but Mr. Stringer worked, didn't he?
> > I'm sure that some Chase ancestor must have worked at some time -- after all, the family allegedly has accumulated enough wealth to support its retarded members.
> Inheritance taxes will doom them. Poor little Jordy, on his own selling cannabis and his uncle selling flesh.

Sadly sexually abused children all too often turn to drugs.

> > > > > > The final question ("Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?") is good, if somewhat pretentiously put forward. Edgar Poe better expressed a similar thought with "I could not love except where Death/Was mingling his with Beauty's breath."
> > > > > Was Stringer "influenced" by Poe?
> > > > Name a 20th century poet who wasn't influenced by Poe to some degree?
> > > The Pissbums of Columbus.
> > Unfair! The Pissbums of Columbus are *not* poets.
> True, but they claim to have been under the influence.

Yes... but of "Edgar Allan Poland."

> > > > > We like "and beauty, half regret and pain" as a line.
> > > > It's good, but lacks the definitiveness to serve as the closing line.
> > > Maybe he needed a third stanza to complete his thought? He could say, in some words, that beauty is half regret and half pain.
> > He certainly need another stanza to justify his thought. Simply having heard a sad birdsong in November doesn't justify the pronouncement that much of beauty is half regret and pain.
> A song in the bird is worth two in the busk (old Chinese proverb).
> > > > "Must all our dreams/Of deepest Beauty thus with Sorrow dwell?" reads like a rhetorical question -- a pronouncement couched in question form; whereas "and beauty, half regret and pain?" cries out for another line to follow it.
> > > "So I put my finger in her hole."
> > In some strange and twisted way, that actually works.
> We were inspired by the Ghost of Lady K.

Her corpse inspired some poetry after all!

> > > > Michael Pendragon
> > > > “As I've said before, I haven't seen anyone here (except Meat Plow)
> > > > claiming they could ‘beat’ you at what you do. I really doubt whether
> > > > anyone else would /want/ to do anything like what you do. In fact, I'm
> > > > not at all clear on what it is you actually /do/, or think you do, and
> > > > I have even less of an idea what your parameters for success are. I'm
> > > > pretty sure I could scribble down some random shit, and then stand, or
> > > > stagger, in front of a mike and mumble it incomprehensibly to a
> > > > musical backing, if there was some reasonable inducement to do so, but
> > > > maybe that's not the idea. Maybe there's something else involved. All
> > > > I can say is that whatever it is you do, it doesn't carry well onto
> > > > Usenet, and it doesn't seem to have a lot to do with anything I can
> > > > identify as ‘poetry’.”
> > > > -- Gerard Ian Lewis
> > > Mr. Lewis "nailed it."
> > He's just one in a long parade of poets who's come to a similar conclusion.
> He can't even talk. His extemporaneous "speeches" are trailing off mumbles.