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arts / rec.arts.poems / At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance

At the Gates of Dawn

Night prowls, scratches sand, & then pads on,
the gnomes are sleeping in their gnomish homes,
when darkness is increased by 1, to 7
& from the icy waters underground

a scarlet eagle rises, shining gold
on all. Floating down, the light resounds
blindingly – flap flicker flicker / Blam pow pow –

& all the land is lime and limpid green.
Amidst the grass, dandelions thrive.
Buttercups cup the light in the foggy dew.

Change, return, success, going & coming,
nothing can be destroyed once & for all:
Look at the sun, look at the sky, look at the river
lazily winding, finding its way to sea.

~~
George J. Dance, 2009
from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2011

https://gdancesbetty.blogspot.com/2021/07/at-gates-of-dawn-george-j-dance.html

On Sunday, July 11, 2021 at 2:31:30 PM UTC, George J. Dance wrote:
> At the Gates of Dawn

We can hardly find the words to describe the cheating and plagiarism, theft and rip-off that George Dance has performed on Pink Floyd's ""The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" (1967) album lyrics. We cannot use strong enough words to condemn this, that he presented this poem as his creation, his phrases, his thoughts. We are truly astounded and appalled.

See below, with the lines that George Dance presented as his own, then what song it is from and the original lyrics as written by Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd. Lines in quotation marks are the Pink Floyd lyrics

----------

At the Gates of Dawn – from “The Piper at the Gates of Dawn”

Night prowls, scratches sand, & then pads on, - from “Lucifer Sam”
“At night prowling sifting sand.”

the gnomes are sleeping in their gnomish homes, - from “The Gnome”
“And little gnomes stay in their homes.”

when darkness is increased by 1, to 7 – from “Chapter 24”
“It forms when darkness is increased by one.” – This makes no sense out of the context of the song.

& from the icy waters underground – from “Astronomy Domine”
“Around the ice waters underground”

a scarlet eagle rises, shining gold – from “Matilda Mother”
“With silver eyes the scarlet eagle”

on all. Floating down, the light resounds – from “Astronomy Domine”
“Floating down, the sound resounds”

blindingly – flap flicker flicker / Blam pow pow – from “Astronomy Domine”
“Blinding signs flap,”
“Flicker, flicker, flicker blam. Pow, pow.”

& all the land is lime and limpid green. – from “Astronomy Domine”
“Lime and limpid green, a second scene”

Amidst the grass, dandelions thrive. – from “Flaming”

Buttercups cup the light in the foggy dew. – from “Flaming”
“Watching buttercups cup the light”
“Lazing in the foggy dew”
“Sleeping on a dandelion”

Change, return, success, going & coming, - from Chapter 24
“Change returns success”
“Going and coming without error.”

nothing can be destroyed once & for all: - from Chapter 24
“Things cannot be destroyed once and for all.”

Look at the sun, look at the sky, look at the river – from “The Gnome”
“Look at the sky, look at the river”

lazily winding, finding its way to sea – partly from “The Gnome”
“Winding, finding places to go”

lazily winding, finding its way to sea. – the other part is from “Lucifer Sam”
“Lucifer go to sea.”

Anatomy of a plagiarism scandal:

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 7:17:39 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Please crack the code for us.
> If you provide an explanation of your intentions, that may start an actual discussion, which is good.

On Wednesday, July 14, 2021 at 1:46:12 PM UTC-4, George J. Dance wrote:
> The constraint I used here is the cento form. I didn't use complete lines; but every image I took was from Syd Barrett's lyrics to the first Pink Floyd album, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn. So the poem does have a dual purpose; it's meant as a pretty poem about a sunrise, and also a look into the mind (a sort of tribute to) Barrett. My hope is that those who do recognize the Barrett connection (I think the title's a dead giveaway) will get more from the poem, but at the same time those who know nothing about it can just read it at as a poem about a sunrise.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 9:18:28 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> We can hardly find the words to describe the cheating and plagiarism, theft and rip-off that George Dance has performed on Pink Floyd's ""The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" (1967) album lyrics. We cannot use strong enough words to condemn this, that he presented this poem as his creation, his phrases, his thoughts. We are truly astounded and appalled.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 9:44:25 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> What does one expect by the failed politician who became 'editor' of the Dockery 'ugly cover' 'book' that he rewrote right here day after day.
> NIce work, NG

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:00:02 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> "But enough about him; I have my own poem to talk about here."
> (stolen)

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:04:08 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Thanks, Edward. If he had presented that anywhere other than here, he would have been sued. Maybe he still will be, as it is in his supposed "book." The phrase that we thought was good was "buttercups cup the light," and that was a straight steal from Pink Floyd. If he has no original ideas, that does not excuse his stealing ideas from others. He will be found out.
> It badly reflects on George Dance's character that he would do this.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:10:54 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> I never thought he had character..no one in the Dockery camp has character
> Now to hear his spaghetti logic about your research.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:15:17 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 2:00:02 PM UTC, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> How about this one, in the same thread:
> On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 11:27:21 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> > No, Dance can write circles around you, troll.
> Dockery should modify that statement to read that Dance can copy circles (and words). He cannot draw his own circles or write his own words.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:23:57 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> No, Dockery will defend, he cannot afford to lose more 'friends'.
> Et Tu Pickles?

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:27:08 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> His theft should be posted on his blog bio...

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:35:17 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> Explain your theft.
> New message from Edward Rochester Esq.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:42:33 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Not a one of them can write a poem. Remember Pickles' note cards, from which he would copy and paste his standard replies? His poems were a bunch of quotations from other people's work.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:46:53 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> The poem is also on the Facebook AAPC thing. We will be sure to have Pink Floyd's lawyers look at that. Let's see who the moderators of that site are--what do you know! It's Will Dockery, George Dance and Vinyl Cunt! They will be sued jointly and severally!

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:16:33 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> We can hardly find the words to describe the cheating and plagiarism, theft and rip-off that George Dance has performed on Pink Floyd's ""The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" (1967) album lyrics. We cannot use strong enough words to condemn this, that he presented this poem as his creation, his phrases, his thoughts. We are truly astounded and appalled.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:17:42 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> We can hardly find the words to describe the cheating and plagiarism, theft and rip-off that George Dance has performed on Pink Floyd's ""The Piper at the Gates of Dawn" (1967) album lyrics. We cannot use strong enough words to condemn this, that he presented this poem as his creation, his phrases, his thoughts. We are truly astounded and appalled.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> George Dance, when you wrote it has nothing to do with anything, nor does the fact that you got only one reply. It was illegal then and it is illegal now. It is also plagiarism. You are a thief.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:34:17 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> George Dance submitted this poem to the Sunday Sampler! Note that there are no explanations for where he got the lines. And he fooled people into thinking that he actually wrote the words. Poem scum.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 12:33:18 PM UTC-4, fake "Clay Dockery" wrote:
> It wouldn't be the first time he was caught plagiarizing. This one is so blatant that it's embarrassing that he thought nobody would notice. Maybe George Dance should rip off songs that nobody listens to, such as the Shadowville Shitheads.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Thanks, Clay. We see that your "father" is crying "cento" as an excuse for George Dance's thievery. "Writers Digest" has something to say about that.. Dance's stealing for his poem is not at all transformative and he did not bother to tag the lines with their sources. He tried to pass off the poem as his own work (several times), and that is plagiarism.
>
> https://www.writersdigest.com/write-better-fiction/how-to-draw-influence-from-other-writers-without-plagiarizing-6-tips-to-avoid-an-ailey-otoole-situation

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 3:29:20 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> The Writer's Digest article that NancyGene linked addresses the cento:
> "Many poetic forms borrow from others, such as the cento, in which every line comes from another source. The title of a cento may also come from another source. As a result of the juxtaposition of the various lines and images, centos often create irony or humor. Had Ailey O’Toole titled her poem “Cento of Gun Metal” and tagged the list of people she borrowed from, her work would not be considered plagiarism."
> You'll note that both the poems status as a "cento" should be noted and the source/s should be listed.
> I'm sure that George believed most people would immediately pick up on the Pink Floyd references, and therefore didn't bother to list them.
> Now let's see if you're willing to let this proverbial horse stay dead.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 3:57:46 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Then don't do a cento if you are not willing to give credit to your sources. That you are only willing to accommodate the "request" to credit the lines now is because you got called on it is telling.
> Besides which it is the legal thing to do. If you didn't know this before, now you do.
> Again, "can" should be "should have given." You are only sorry because you got caught.
> We held our noses and looked at your Penny's site. We saw that you had not mentioned cento or Pink Floyd or any other author but yourself for the origins of the poem.
> We were going to mention your "Doggerel, and other doggerel" book as containing the poem. So, the publication of the poem in the book similarly had no mention of cento or Pink Floyd or the lines being from their lyrics. That seems to be a big omission on your part.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 8:49:38 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> What the fuck does that have to do with Dunce stealing lyrics and not crediting, claiming them his own until this very day?

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 11:17:42 AM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:

(see below)

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 7:17:39 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Please crack the code for us.
> If you provide an explanation of your intentions, that may start an actual discussion, which is good.

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:00:02 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> "But enough about him; I have my own poem to talk about here."
> (stolen)

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:23:57 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> No, Dockery will defend, he cannot afford to lose more 'friends'.
> Et Tu Pickles?

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:27:08 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> His theft should be posted on his blog bio...

On Thursday, July 15, 2021 at 10:35:17 AM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> Explain your theft.
> New message from Edward Rochester Esq.

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 5:10:46 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> To "set the record straight," George Dance wrote the thing more than 14 years ago and published it various places, including in his "book." He did not label it as a cento and did not give credit to Pink Floyd for the words that made up most of "his" poem. That is plagiarism. Since he has done this before, perhaps he should stick to writing original poems.
On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 5:13:54 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> Case closed, he's a plagiarist.

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 5:31:12 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> All of his supposed "original" poems should now be examined for plagiarism.

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 5:52:43 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> along with political speeches......

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 6:00:05 PM UTC-4, NancyGene wrote:
> Good idea. We will look in the transcripts of his speeches for "four score and seven years ago" and perhaps some lines from Michelle Obama's 2008 convention speech. We will also look for "we will fight on the beaches...we will never surrender."

Click here to read the complete article

Subject	Author
At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance	George J. Dance
Re: At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance	NancyGene
Re: At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance	George J. Dance
Re: At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance	George J. Dance
Re: At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance	Terry Stomp
Re: At the Gates of Dawn / George J. Dance	George J. Dance