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arts / rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s / Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

SubjectAuthor
* REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAYBruce
+* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -Bruce
|`- Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUMark D.
+* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURoger Ford
|`* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -DianeE
| `- Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURoger Ford
+* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURWC
|+* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -Bruce
||`- Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -Bruce
|`- Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUDianeE
`* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURoger Ford
 `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -Bruce
  `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAYKen Whiton
   `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -Bruce
    `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURoger Ford
     `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAYKen Whiton
      `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURoger Ford
       `* Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -Bruce
        `- Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGURoger Ford

1
REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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Subject: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY
108; AUGUST 1951
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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 by: Bruce - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:10 UTC

Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/bill-haley-the-saddlemen-green-tree-boogie-holiday-108/

YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0a6ne_PqXI

SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 2/10

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -
HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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 by: Bruce - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:15 UTC

From Samp:

Despite what revisionist writers have claimed, western swing didn’t influence rock’s creation in any way, shape or form and would probably never have even been noticed by rock ‘n’ roll had the genre remained exclusively black down the line. But when a few aspiring white musicians were exposed to rock ‘n’ roll and decided they wanted in on the action since this was obviously the most exciting music of the time, then it was probably inevitable that somebody among them would notice a similar rhythmic drive and have the bright idea of borrowing from that to bring something new to THIS that they could call their own.

The explanation for Green Tree Boogie in a nutshell is to dispel the rumor of Western Swing, or any country music for that matter, playing a part in rock’s birth, for which there are 1,500+ songs as irrefutable evidence to prove otherwise.

But just because this kind of music had no role in rock’s creation doesn’t mean it didn’t factor in down the road. Like the increased influence of blues along the way after largely sitting on the sidelines at the start, or more pointedly the inclusion of folk ideals in the mid-1960’s and even classical touches when prog rolled around, rock music is a sponge and at any time it might draw inspiration from the most unimaginable sources if a vital artist comes along at the right time.

And yes, Bill Haley WAS a vital artist in rock ‘n’ roll… not yet, but eventually, and as such his story belongs here too and deserves our respect… as long as his role doesn’t get artificially inflated by those who can’t accept the fact that he, or those like him, didn’t have a damned thing to do with its existence and only belatedly joined a party already in full swing that certainly didn’t need their presence to survive… or to thrive.

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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From: maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
Date: Sun, 01 May 2022 15:17:36 GMT
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 by: Roger Ford - Sun, 1 May 2022 15:17 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
>
>https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/bill-haley-the-saddlemen-green-tree-boogie-holiday-108/
>
>
>YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0a6ne_PqXI
>
>
Haley & co managed 2 rounds with this one in the 1951 Battle

R1
>6 Patti Page - Down The Trail Of Aching Hearts - Mercury 5579
>14 Bill Haley & The Saddlemen - Green Tree Boogie - Holiday 108 51

R2
>4 Bill Haley & The Saddlemen - Green Tree Boogie - Holiday 108 51
>10 Tiny Bradshaw - Walk That Mess - King 4427

>SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 2/10

2?

TWO???

Ridiculous!!

Sure it's not the best thing he ever did but IMO it is Haley's best of
1951

And a good 7 in these parts

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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From: letsr...@opbox.com (RWC)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
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 by: RWC - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:05 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
>YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0a6ne_PqXI
>
>SPONTANEOUS ***LUNACY*** VERDICT: 2/10

Ironically, a score by a wishful thinking revisionist, who cannot with
authority, unlike a professional 50's rock 'n' roll musician (such as
Jim), compare the detailed technical (note by note, etc) stylistic
nature of music from different pre-1952 genres.

"Western swing is a style of popular music that began in the 1920s in
the American Southwest among the region's popular Western string
bands. It is dance music, often with an up-tempo beat. The music is an
amalgamation of rural, cowboy, polka, and folk, New Orleans jazz or
Dixieland, and blues blended with a jazzy "swing", and played by a hot
string band often augmented with drums, saxophones, pianos and,
notably, the steel guitar."

I'm not aware of Western Swing being a mainly 'black' creation as
Sampson might be implying - "would probably never have even been
noticed by rock 'n' roll had the genre remained exclusively black down
the line".

Okay, perhaps Sampson was simply trying to ignore/bypass the influence
of Western Swing, but "Green Tree Boogie" sounds Western Swing
influenced - its style is clearly not just a white copy of Roy Brown
or Wynonie Harris, or of any other famous post-war R&B artist.

Chuck Berry was partially influenced by country music, perhaps also
were the some time R&B outliers The Nite Riders and Jimmy Preston?

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<7c7135e5-aa9f-494d-a389-3633506cbdbcn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -
HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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 by: Bruce - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:12 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 2:05:32 PM UTC-4, RWC wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
> >
> >YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0a6ne_PqXI
> >
> >SPONTANEOUS ***LUNACY*** VERDICT: 2/10
>
> Ironically, a score by a wishful thinking revisionist, who cannot with
> authority, unlike a professional 50's rock 'n' roll musician (such as
> Jim), compare the detailed technical (note by note, etc) stylistic
> nature of music from different pre-1952 genres.
>
> "Western swing is a style of popular music that began in the 1920s in
> the American Southwest among the region's popular Western string
> bands. It is dance music, often with an up-tempo beat. The music is an
> amalgamation of rural, cowboy, polka, and folk, New Orleans jazz or
> Dixieland, and blues blended with a jazzy "swing", and played by a hot
> string band often augmented with drums, saxophones, pianos and,
> notably, the steel guitar."
>
> I'm not aware of Western Swing being a mainly 'black' creation as
> Sampson might be implying -

No, he's saying that Western Swing, or any kind of country had no bearing on the "creation" of rock and roll from 1947-maybe 1949, and that any influence that any kind of country music had on rock and roll came in later years, starting maybe with Haley's early records, although not with "Green Tree Boogie," which is not rock and roll at all, but 100% Western Swing. Haley's "Rocket 88" was a failed attempt at rock and roll.

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -
HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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 by: Bruce - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:14 UTC

On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 2:12:53 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> Haley's "Rocket 88" was a failed attempt at rock and roll.

No different than country covers of "Sixty Minute Man" and "Teardrops From My Eyes."

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
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 by: DianeE - Sun, 1 May 2022 20:04 UTC

On 5/1/2022 11:17 AM, Roger Ford wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>>
>>
>> https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/bill-haley-the-saddlemen-green-tree-boogie-holiday-108/
>>
>>
>> YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0a6ne_PqXI
>>
>>
> Haley & co managed 2 rounds with this one in the 1951 Battle
>
> R1
>> 6 Patti Page - Down The Trail Of Aching Hearts - Mercury 5579
>> 14 Bill Haley & The Saddlemen - Green Tree Boogie - Holiday 108 51
>
> R2
>> 4 Bill Haley & The Saddlemen - Green Tree Boogie - Holiday 108 51
>> 10 Tiny Bradshaw - Walk That Mess - King 4427
>
>> SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 2/10
>
> 2?
>
> TWO???
>
> Ridiculous!!
>
> Sure it's not the best thing he ever did but IMO it is Haley's best of
> 1951
>
> And a good 7 in these parts
-------------
Musically, yes. You probably didn't notice the really stupid lyrics,
which ruin it for me. But I agree it's better than a 2.

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<bSDbK.161780$Kdf.73580@fx96.iad>

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 by: DianeE - Sun, 1 May 2022 22:30 UTC

On 5/1/2022 2:05 PM, RWC wrote:

>
> Chuck Berry was partially influenced by country music, perhaps also
> were the some time R&B outliers The Nite Riders and Jimmy Preston?
>
--------------
Country music with a Latin Beat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9W3U5BCjp8

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<626f71fa.96848671@nntp.aioe.org>

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From: maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 06:05:57 GMT
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 by: Roger Ford - Mon, 2 May 2022 06:05 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 16:04:43 -0400, DianeE <DianeE@NoSpam.net> wrote:

>On 5/1/2022 11:17 AM, Roger Ford wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/bill-haley-the-saddlemen-green-tree-boogie-holiday-108/
>>>
>>>
>>> YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0a6ne_PqXI
>>>
>>>
>> Haley & co managed 2 rounds with this one in the 1951 Battle
>>
>> R1
>>> 6 Patti Page - Down The Trail Of Aching Hearts - Mercury 5579
>>> 14 Bill Haley & The Saddlemen - Green Tree Boogie - Holiday 108 51
>>
>> R2
>>> 4 Bill Haley & The Saddlemen - Green Tree Boogie - Holiday 108 51
>>> 10 Tiny Bradshaw - Walk That Mess - King 4427
>>
>>> SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 2/10
>>
>> 2?
>>
>> TWO???
>>
>> Ridiculous!!
>>
>> Sure it's not the best thing he ever did but IMO it is Haley's best of
>> 1951
>>
>> And a good 7 in these parts
>-------------
>Musically, yes. You probably didn't notice the really stupid lyrics,
>which ruin it for me. But I agree it's better than a 2.

If Samp is deducting points for really stupid lyrics then a huge
amount of our favorite 50's (and 60's) records to come are gonna get
trashed.big time later

More likely knowing how Samp seems to let things like the character
of the label owners and other totally non-musical aspects affect his
judgement he might have penalised this Haley because of Essex label
owner Dave Miller's very shady dealings and also his famous reputation
with women (don't ask :)

Or maybe because it was raining in Philly the day it was recorded?

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<6270263f.142997062@nntp.aioe.org>

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From: maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
Date: Mon, 02 May 2022 18:43:50 GMT
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 by: Roger Ford - Mon, 2 May 2022 18:43 UTC

On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
I have this as September 1951 release

ROGER FORD
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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -
HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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 by: Bruce - Mon, 2 May 2022 19:15 UTC

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
> >
> I have this as September 1951 release

Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.

http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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 by: Ken Whiton - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:13 UTC

*-* On Mon, 2 May 2022, at 12:15:38 -0700 (PDT),
*-* In Article <bf33343f-38c8-4566-8ad5-ea0324cd028an@googlegroups.com>,
*-* Bruce wrote
*-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
- HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> wrote:

>>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

>> I have this as September 1951 release

> Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.

> http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200

One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
September 15, 1951, Billboard review:

<http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,

and here's the Billboard page with that review:

<https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.

Ken Whiton
--
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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -
HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
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 by: Bruce - Tue, 3 May 2022 04:36 UTC

On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:13:19 AM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
> *-* On Mon, 2 May 2022, at 12:15:38 -0700 (PDT),
> *-* In Article <bf33343f-38c8-4566...@googlegroups.com>,
> *-* Bruce wrote
> *-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
> - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> >> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
> >> I have this as September 1951 release
>
> > Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.
>
> > http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200
> One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
> September 15, 1951, Billboard review:
>
> <http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,
>
> and here's the Billboard page with that review:
>
> <https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.
>
> Ken Whiton

Great find Ken. I'm inclined to go with Samp with the August release with this new info. The issue date Sep 15 would have been worked on from like the 5th through the 11th or so, making it hard for it not to have been released already in August.

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<6270c34b.183201609@nntp.aioe.org>

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From: maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 05:55:56 GMT
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 by: Roger Ford - Tue, 3 May 2022 05:55 UTC

On Mon, 2 May 2022 21:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:13:19 AM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
>> *-* On Mon, 2 May 2022, at 12:15:38 -0700 (PDT),
>> *-* In Article <bf33343f-38c8-4566...@googlegroups.com>,
>> *-* Bruce wrote
>> *-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
>> - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>>
>> > On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>>
>> >> I have this as September 1951 release
>>
>> > Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.
>>
>> > http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200
>> One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
>> September 15, 1951, Billboard review:
>>
>> <http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,
>>
>> and here's the Billboard page with that review:
>>
>> <https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.
>>
>> Ken Whiton
>
>Great find Ken. I'm inclined to go with Samp with the August release with this new info. The issue date Sep 15 would have been worked on from like the 5th through the 11th or so, making it hard for it not to have been released already in August.

Yes,that's good work by Ken and like you I tend towards the August
release date now.

Speaking of releases whats happened to the Samp reviews on here?

I count 3 now that haven't appeared (Lsrks + 2 Wynonie sides)

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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 by: Mark D. - Tue, 3 May 2022 16:08 UTC

On May 1, 2022 at 9:15:24 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

> Despite what revisionist writers have claimed, western swing didn’t influence
> rock’s creation in any way, shape or form and would probably never have even
> been noticed by rock ‘n’ roll had the genre remained exclusively black down
> the line.

A genre may start in a particular communty, but no successful genre, whether
jazz or swing or c&w or r&b or r'n'r or folk or "rock" or even "british
invasion" has ever stayed "exclusively" in that community for very long. As
soon as a genre starts selling records in substantial numbers, musicians and
label owners (or their a&r men) start borrowing or stealing or covering or, in
the pc jargon of the moment, "culturally appropriating" the style.

--md

remove "xx" for email

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<m4qdnTTaMshKY-z_nZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@supernews.com>

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY
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 by: Ken Whiton - Wed, 4 May 2022 04:19 UTC

*-* On Tue, 03 May 2022, at 05:55:56 GMT,
*-* In Article <6270c34b.183201609@nntp.aioe.org>,
*-* Roger Ford wrote
*-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
- HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

> On Mon, 2 May 2022 21:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
> wrote:

>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:13:19 AM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
>>> *-* Bruce wrote

>>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

> >>>> I have this as September 1951 release

>>>> Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.

>>>> http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200

>>> One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
>>> September 15, 1951, Billboard review:

>>> <http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,

>>> and here's the Billboard page with that review:

>>> <https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.

>> Great find Ken. I'm inclined to go with Samp with the August
>> release with this new info. The issue date Sep 15 would have been
>> worked on from like the 5th through the 11th or so, making it hard
>> for it not to have been released already in August.

> Yes,that's good work by Ken and like you I tend towards the August
> release date now.

It might be even further back. I don't know what their source
is, but SecondHandSongs shows a July, 1951, release date, with a June
14, 1951, recording date.

<https://secondhandsongs.com/work/124737/all#nav-entity>

Ken Whiton
--
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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<62721901.270679687@nntp.aioe.org>

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From: maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 06:18:33 GMT
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 by: Roger Ford - Wed, 4 May 2022 06:18 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:19:36 -0400, Ken Whiton
<kenwhiton@surfglobal.net.INVAL> wrote:

>*-* On Tue, 03 May 2022, at 05:55:56 GMT,
>*-* In Article <6270c34b.183201609@nntp.aioe.org>,
>*-* Roger Ford wrote
>*-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
> - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
>> On Mon, 2 May 2022 21:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:13:19 AM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
>>>> *-* Bruce wrote
>
>>>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>
>> >>>> I have this as September 1951 release
>
>>>>> Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.
>
>>>>> http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200
>
>>>> One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
>>>> September 15, 1951, Billboard review:
>
>>>> <http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,
>
>>>> and here's the Billboard page with that review:
>
>>>> <https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.
>
>>> Great find Ken. I'm inclined to go with Samp with the August
>>> release with this new info. The issue date Sep 15 would have been
>>> worked on from like the 5th through the 11th or so, making it hard
>>> for it not to have been released already in August.
>
>> Yes,that's good work by Ken and like you I tend towards the August
>> release date now.
>
> It might be even further back. I don't know what their source
>is, but SecondHandSongs shows a July, 1951, release date, with a June
> 14, 1951, recording date.
>
><https://secondhandsongs.com/work/124737/all#nav-entity>
>
"Green Tree Boogie" was recorded at the same June session as "Rocket
88". I'm a little dubious that Miller would release another Haley
record only a month after "Rocket 88" when his object with that one
was to eat into the big sales Chess was enjoying with the number.

The August release date (and even that is early!) remains much the
more likely IMO

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
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Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

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Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" -
HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
Injection-Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 06:23:13 +0000
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 by: Bruce - Wed, 4 May 2022 06:23 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 2:18:35 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:19:36 -0400, Ken Whiton
> <kenw...@surfglobal.net.INVAL> wrote:
>
> >*-* On Tue, 03 May 2022, at 05:55:56 GMT,
> >*-* In Article <6270c34b....@nntp.aioe.org>,
> >*-* Roger Ford wrote
> >*-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
> > - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
> >
> >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 21:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >
> >>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:13:19 AM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
> >>>> *-* Bruce wrote
> >
> >>>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
> >
> >> >>>> I have this as September 1951 release
> >
> >>>>> Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.
> >
> >>>>> http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200
> >
> >>>> One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
> >>>> September 15, 1951, Billboard review:
> >
> >>>> <http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,
> >
> >>>> and here's the Billboard page with that review:
> >
> >>>> <https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.
> >
> >>> Great find Ken. I'm inclined to go with Samp with the August
> >>> release with this new info. The issue date Sep 15 would have been
> >>> worked on from like the 5th through the 11th or so, making it hard
> >>> for it not to have been released already in August.
> >
> >> Yes,that's good work by Ken and like you I tend towards the August
> >> release date now.
> >
> > It might be even further back. I don't know what their source
> >is, but SecondHandSongs shows a July, 1951, release date, with a June
> > 14, 1951, recording date.
> >
> ><https://secondhandsongs.com/work/124737/all#nav-entity>
> >
> "Green Tree Boogie" was recorded at the same June session as "Rocket
> 88". I'm a little dubious that Miller would release another Haley
> record only a month after "Rocket 88" when his object with that one
> was to eat into the big sales Chess was enjoying with the number.
>
> The August release date (and even that is early!) remains much the
> more likely IMO
> ROGER FORD

Yeah, I don't have much faith in the guy with that Second Hand Songs site.

Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951

<62723b4d.279459625@nntp.aioe.org>

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From: maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s
Subject: Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 08:38:39 GMT
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 by: Roger Ford - Wed, 4 May 2022 08:38 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 23:23:13 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 2:18:35 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 00:19:36 -0400, Ken Whiton
>> <kenw...@surfglobal.net.INVAL> wrote:
>>
>> >*-* On Tue, 03 May 2022, at 05:55:56 GMT,
>> >*-* In Article <6270c34b....@nntp.aioe.org>,
>> >*-* Roger Ford wrote
>> >*-* About Re: REVIEW - Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie"
>> > - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 2 May 2022 21:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> On Tuesday, May 3, 2022 at 12:13:19 AM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
>> >>>> *-* Bruce wrote
>> >
>> >>>>> On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 2:43:57 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Sun, 1 May 2022 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>>>>> Bill Haley & The Saddlemen: "Green Tree Boogie" - HOLIDAY 108; AUGUST 1951
>> >
>> >> >>>> I have this as September 1951 release
>> >
>> >>>>> Could be as Gordon shows a Sep 29 BB review.
>> >
>> >>>>> http://rcs-discography.com/rcs/search.php?type=acode&key=hale6200
>> >
>> >>>> One of the comments in the 45worlds.com listing for it mentions a
>> >>>> September 15, 1951, Billboard review:
>> >
>> >>>> <http://www.45worlds.com/78rpm/record/nc682736us>,
>> >
>> >>>> and here's the Billboard page with that review:
>> >
>> >>>> <https://books.google.com/books?id=90QEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86>.
>> >
>> >>> Great find Ken. I'm inclined to go with Samp with the August
>> >>> release with this new info. The issue date Sep 15 would have been
>> >>> worked on from like the 5th through the 11th or so, making it hard
>> >>> for it not to have been released already in August.
>> >
>> >> Yes,that's good work by Ken and like you I tend towards the August
>> >> release date now.
>> >
>> > It might be even further back. I don't know what their source
>> >is, but SecondHandSongs shows a July, 1951, release date, with a June
>> > 14, 1951, recording date.
>> >
>> ><https://secondhandsongs.com/work/124737/all#nav-entity>
>> >
>> "Green Tree Boogie" was recorded at the same June session as "Rocket
>> 88". I'm a little dubious that Miller would release another Haley
>> record only a month after "Rocket 88" when his object with that one
>> was to eat into the big sales Chess was enjoying with the number.
>>
>> The August release date (and even that is early!) remains much the
>> more likely IMO
>> ROGER FORD
>
>Yeah, I don't have much faith in the guy with that Second Hand Songs site.

I've picked up a few cover versions and remakes I never knew about
from there but he's not too hot on dates sometimes

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
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