On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:38:45 PM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
> *-* On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 16:04:28 -0700 (PDT),
> *-* In Article <30fbc59a-7ac3-48a0...@googlegroups.com>,
> *-* Bruce wrote
> *-* About Re: A Dreamer's Holiday - Como
> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:16:50 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>
> >> "Seventeen" by Marty Robbins?
>
> > Never heard it before.
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmsnnLaqh0
> According to my Whitburn spreadsheete it was #4 Country and #27
> Pop in 1958.

I knew it was a hit, but I don't think I ever heard it before.

On Wed, 18 May 2022 21:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 11:38:45 PM UTC-4, Ken Whiton wrote:
>> *-* On Wed, 18 May 2022, at 16:04:28 -0700 (PDT),
>> *-* In Article <30fbc59a-7ac3-48a0...@googlegroups.com>,
>> *-* Bruce wrote
>> *-* About Re: A Dreamer's Holiday - Como
>> > On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:16:50 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>>
>> >> "Seventeen" by Marty Robbins?
>>
>> > Never heard it before.
>>
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmsnnLaqh0
>> According to my Whitburn spreadsheete it was #4 Country and #27
>> Pop in 1958.
>
>I knew it was a hit, but I don't think I ever heard it before.

The proper title is "She Was Only Seventeen (He Was One Year More)"

ROGER FORD
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On 5/18/2022 7:04 PM, Bruce wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:16:50 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>
> "Seventeen" by Marty Robbins?
>
> Never heard it before.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmsnnLaqh0
-----------
I used to hear it on my mother's favorite radio station when I was a
child. Would you really call it a country record?

On Thu, 19 May 2022 07:25:17 -0400, DianeE <DianeE@NoSpam.net> wrote:

>On 5/18/2022 7:04 PM, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 5:16:50 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>>
>> "Seventeen" by Marty Robbins?
>>
>> Never heard it before.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmsnnLaqh0
>-----------
>I used to hear it on my mother's favorite radio station when I was a
>child. Would you really call it a country record?

This was just another chapter in Marty's two year long "pop" phase
(a.k.a The Ray Coniff years) that ran from aproximately "A White Sport
Coat" in 1957 thru to 1959 ended only by the superb "Gunfighter
Ballads" album and the #1 "El Paso" smash hit at that year end.

So yes personally I'd call it not only straight pop but pretty slushy
straight pop too

ROGER FORD
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On Wed, 18 May 2022 17:16:46 -0400, DianeE <DianeE@NoSpam.net> wrote:

>> --------------
>> This is what I mean about blurred lines between genres.
>-----------
>What do you do about "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" by the Platters, "Pennies
> From Heaven" by the Skyliners, "A Million To One" by
>whatsisname...Jimmy Charles? What do you do about Roy Hamilton? The
>Four Knights? These artists went back and forth between R&B and
>pop--how will we decide which is which? Is "16 Tons" pop or country?
>"A White Sport Coat" and "Seventeen" by Marty Robbins? They were played
>on both pop and R&R stations. Not so easy.

Firstly, Roger supported a "Pop" contest, but, just to be clear, I
presume Roger was fully supporting Bill's idea of a "Classic Pop"
contest. "Classic Pop" implies a 1950s mostly white fan base that is
not dominated by 'progressive'/'rebellious' teens.

Diane, you suggest that if a song has any R&B or Country element then
it might not be considered "Classic Pop".

I come to the issue from a very different direction. If there is a
classic pop element then it might be categorized as "Classic
Pop". But then how do we identify a 'classic pop element'. To be
practical it could be, in the first instance, a song (*nevermind the
artist*) that was widely popular among adults as indicated by its
Billboard pop ranking in the years up to 1955.
That is, unless the song is perceived to be targeted primarily
at 'progressive' teens in which case it would not qualify
(for example, to state the obvious, "Rock Around The Clock").

A song should not be excluded from "Classic Pop" merely because it's a
crossover from some other genre.

Positions on R&B charts are irrelevant in determining whether a song
is "Classic Pop" (think Roy Hamilton).

The artist is largely irrelevant, it should be a song by song
consideration.

I can imagine "A White Sport Coat" being popular with countless
youngish *adults* in the 50s, so it should pass as a "Classic Pop"
song, even if it was popular with many middle-class rockin' teens as
well (perhaps not so popular with, IIRC, NYC teen greasers like Bill
and Mark? :-)

"She Was Only Seventeen" by Marty Robbins is, of course,
not "Classic Pop" - it's a teen only targeted record.

How could "16 Tons" not be "Classic Pop" - a record surely not
aimed primarily at teens, but at everybody under 50 or whatever.

Using the reasoning outlined above, "Smoke Gets In your Eyes" is
"Classic Pop" (think Mills Brothers). Perez Prado is definitely
upbeat "Classic Pop".

On the other hand, "Pennies From Heaven" by the Skyliners from 1960
is clearly not "Classic Pop", it's a weird mash-up of dominant fast
tempo rock and roll with an old-fashioned orchestral backing.

As for "Million To One" by Jimmy Charles, how the hell could anyone
even suggest that this could be "Classic Pop".

After a certain year (1956-1959) it's likely that most "Classic Pop"
songs came out on albums; for example, albums by Julie London.

Roy Hamilton's "Unchained Melody" is "Classic Pop" (and it reached
#6 on US Billboard Hot 100 in 1955.)

The Four Knights are often "Classic Pop", for example their
"I Get So Lonely (When I Dream About You)" from 1954.
Roughly speaking, the Four Knights, a group formed in the
early 40s, are reminiscent of the Mills Brothers.