In article <touf1q$1o6h9$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu Worldcon on
>YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether it will even happen.
>I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a link to the video:
>
>https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
>
>The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise anyone.

I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future, disqualify
genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility to host a Worldcon.

If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough "memberships"
to vote all future Worldcons in China.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

On 1/3/23 15:40, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
> In article <touf1q$1o6h9$1@dont-email.me>,
> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>> There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu Worldcon on
>> YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether it will even happen.
>> I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a link to the video:
>>
>> https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
>>
>> The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise anyone.
>
> I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future, disqualify
> genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility to host a Worldcon.
>
> If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough "memberships"
> to vote all future Worldcons in China.
>
I am sure that would turn out to be impossible(as well as racist,fascist
and immoral) for some reason. But I would not be surprised if they put
in a rule to not let it be held in any state that does not toe the
right(or more accurately left) line.

Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote in
news:tp23rn$27aso$1@dont-email.me:

> In article <touf1q$1o6h9$1@dont-email.me>,
> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>>There's a video of the SMOFCon presentation for the Chengdu
>>Worldcon on YouTube. People are seriously talking about whether
>>it will even happen. I've posted a commentary on my blog, with a
>>link to the video:
>>
>>https://garymcgath.com/wp/dark-clouds-chengdu-worldcon/
>>
>>The involvement of "governmental entities" shouldn't surprise
>>anyone.
>
> I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future,
> disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility
> to host a Worldcon.
>
Given who would be definining what constitutes a "genocidal
totalitarian slave state," that would almost certainly disqualify the
United States. (Actual facts don't matter here, only political
ideology. And if that isn't obvious to you, then you're part of the
problem.)

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
> I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future,
> disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility
> to host a Worldcon.

I'd vote for that, if it was carefully enough phrased. Also nations
that don't have freedom of speech and of religion.

> If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough
> "memberships" to vote all future Worldcons in China.

All they'd have bought is a few trademarks. The real Worldcon
community would start over under another name.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

In article <tp26jc$fcp$1@reader2.panix.com>,
Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough
>> "memberships" to vote all future Worldcons in China.
>
>All they'd have bought is a few trademarks. The real Worldcon
>community would start over under another name.

Quite true. Similar to the case of all the people who wax
hysteric over the CCP buying up all kinds of property in the US.

If it comes to it? How do you spell "expropriation" in Hanzi?
Land ain't exactly portable.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

In article <XnsAF81861F3C8taustingmail@85.12.62.245>,
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote in
>news:tp23rn$27aso$1@dont-email.me:
>> I wonder about the feasibility of rules to, in the future,
>> disqualify genocidal totalitarian slave states from eligibility
>> to host a Worldcon.
>>
>Given who would be definining what constitutes a "genocidal
>totalitarian slave state," that would almost certainly disqualify the
>United States. (Actual facts don't matter here, only political
>ideology. And if that isn't obvious to you, then you're part of the
>problem.)

There is that. But, as Keith pointed out, at some point,
they may find that what they've bought is just an empty set
of trademarks, and Real Fandom reconstitutes under a new name.

But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended,
as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.

--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston

Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
> subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
> whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
> "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
> hobnail boots.

But remind them that National Socialism is socialism, and they have
a meltdown. As if they thought you were defending Nazis rather than
criticising socialism in all its many toxic flavors.

Mao did kill far more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. And
China never repudiated Mao.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
>> subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
>> whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
>> "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
>> hobnail boots.
>
> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian, and
understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of fuck-all about
politics.

and they have
> a meltdown. As if they thought you were defending Nazis rather than
> criticising socialism in all its many toxic flavors.
>
> Mao did kill far more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. And
> China never repudiated Mao.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

On 1/3/23 4:27 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

>> If the CCP decides to buy Worldcon, they can buy enough
>> "memberships" to vote all future Worldcons in China.
>
> All they'd have bought is a few trademarks. The real Worldcon
> community would start over under another name.

Reminds me of an article I just read and blogged about on investors
offering to "buy Mastodon." As if anyone could prevent the creation of a
new fork.

https://garymcgath.com/wp/writing-about-mastodon/

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

On 1/4/23 6:18 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
>>> subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
>>> whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
>>> "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
>>> hobnail boots.
>>
>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
> Sigh.  No, it wasn't.  Not in the slightest.  But you're an USAian, and
> understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of fuck-all about
> politics.
>

I'll skip over the bigotry expressed in that last sentence.

The question is messy. The NSDAP called itself socialist in its name.
The Fascists of Italy said they weren't socialist. The reason for the
difference was strategic, not ideological. Most people these days can't
tell Fascism from Nazism, and discussing the question sensibly is hard.

If socialism requires direct governmental (or "people's") title to the
bulk of the means of production, then Nazism and Fascism weren't
socialist. They were, however, close relatives of socialism. All these
variants grew out of the "uniting the people" philosophies of the 19th
century. The common factor was the subordination of the individual to
the group.

For socialists, this meant expropriation and nationalization. For
fascists (in the broad sense, including Nazis), it meant keeping the
existing economic structure but subordinating it to central authority.
The difference in practice wasn't great, aside from which people reaped
the benefits.

You can put fascism on either side of the borderline and say it's
socialist or not-quite-socialist. But saying it's "not in the slightest"
socialist is plain nonsense.

But I'm a "USAian", so Schmidt will probably "refute" me with an ad
hominem argument.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 10:11:05 -0500, Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
> On 1/4/23 6:18 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a significant
>>>> subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen fine to commit
>>>> whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as long as you attach a
>>>> "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen
>>>> hobnail boots.
>>>
>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
>> Sigh.  No, it wasn't.  Not in the slightest.  But you're an USAian, and
>> understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of fuck-all about
>> politics.
>>
>
> I'll skip over the bigotry expressed in that last sentence.
>
> The question is messy. The NSDAP called itself socialist in its name.
> The Fascists of Italy said they weren't socialist.

North Korea is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
It seems to me neither democratic or a republic.

Thailand's Democratic Party is anything but.

We all know why the NSDAP called itself what it did - and it wasn't
some huge desire for socialism - if was to keep people away from the
Communist Party and the Volkisch movements.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams

"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in
news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:

> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
>>> significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen
>>> fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as
>>> long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
>>> sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
>>
>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
> USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
> five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
>
That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do to
with Keith being a moron.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote in
news:tp44u9$2girf$1@dont-email.me:

> On 1/4/23 6:18 AM, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
>>>> significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
>>>> keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended,
>>>> as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
>>>> sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
>>>
>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
>> Sigh.  No, it wasn't.  Not in the slightest.  But you're an
>> USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
>> five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
>>
>
> I'll skip over the bigotry expressed in that last sentence.
>
> The question is messy. The NSDAP called itself socialist in its
> name. The Fascists of Italy said they weren't socialist. The
> reason for the difference was strategic, not ideological. Most
> people these days can't tell Fascism from Nazism, and discussing
> the question sensibly is hard.
>
> If socialism requires direct governmental (or "people's") title
> to the bulk of the means of production, then Nazism and Fascism
> weren't socialist. They were, however, close relatives of
> socialism. All these variants grew out of the "uniting the
> people" philosophies of the 19th century. The common factor was
> the subordination of the individual to the group.
>
> For socialists, this meant expropriation and nationalization.
> For fascists (in the broad sense, including Nazis), it meant
> keeping the existing economic structure but subordinating it to
> central authority. The difference in practice wasn't great,
> aside from which people reaped the benefits.
>
> You can put fascism on either side of the borderline and say
> it's socialist or not-quite-socialist. But saying it's "not in
> the slightest" socialist is plain nonsense.
>
> But I'm a "USAian", so Schmidt will probably "refute" me with an
> ad hominem argument.
>
He's not as big an idiot as Keith is.

Which is a *very* low bar.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 1/4/23 11:00 AM, Andy Leighton wrote:

> We all know why the NSDAP called itself what it did - and it wasn't
> some huge desire for socialism - if was to keep people away from the
> Communist Party and the Volkisch movements.
>

Which is to say, it was competing with those movements for the support
of the same people, because their ideas weren't too far apart.

A pamphlet by Nazi publicist Georg Strasser (sometimes misattributed to
Hitler) said: "We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of
today’s capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the
economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging
the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money,
instead of their responsibility and their performance."

That line fit in nicely with the notion that rich Jews were bleeding the
country dry.

As I already noted, the difference between the Nazi method
(incorporating business into a central authoritarian system) and the
"pure" socialist method (seizing businesses and turning them into arms
of the government) is a detail of methodology, not a fundamental
difference.

The common target of these groups was the liberal society exemplified by
the Weimar government. They regarded such a society as weak and chaotic
and wanted order and planning to take its place. The rest is details.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote in
news:tp4h99$2htpd$1@dont-email.me:

> On 1/4/23 11:00 AM, Andy Leighton wrote:
>
>> We all know why the NSDAP called itself what it did - and it
>> wasn't some huge desire for socialism - if was to keep people
>> away from the Communist Party and the Volkisch movements.
>>
>
> Which is to say, it was competing with those movements for the
> support of the same people, because their ideas weren't too far
> apart.
>
You have a very imperfect view of cults, and how they recruit. I
suggest you read Eric Hoffer's _The True Believer_, which you
probably won't understand, but it will be amusing to watch you
flounder over it.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism, and they have
>> a meltdown.

> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian,
> and understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of
> fuck-all about politics.

Thanks for giving us a prompt example of just such a meltdown.

I agree with everything the other Gary (McGath) said, and add that
Europe's two great examples of socialism, Russia and Germany, began
the war in 1939 as allies to together subjugate the nations that were
between them. Without Russia's backing, I doubt Germany would have
been willing to risk war. So I'm not terribly sympathetic to the true
claim that Russia suffered the most in that war. That's what happens
to someone who fights on both sides.

Instead of denouncing Americans, you should be grateful that the US
fought against Germany. The US was under no threat except from Japan,
and could have ignored the war in Europe and the Atlantic. Maybe next
time it will.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in
>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>
>> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
>>>> significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy keen
>>>> fine to commit whatever atrocities you want, open-ended, as
>>>> long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or "Progressive"
>>>> sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
>>>
>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
>> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
>> USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
>> five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
>>
>That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do to
>with Keith being a moron.

It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is pretty famous
around here.

But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much disappeared in the US
and a huge number of Americans seem to be pretty ignorant about how their
own government works, let alone how other governments work. I attribute much
of the political chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government that relies on
the people to govern.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
news:tp4rr5$90d$1@panix2.panix.com:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in
>>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>>
>>> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
>>>>> significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
>>>>> keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want,
>>>>> open-ended, as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or
>>>>> "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
>>>>
>>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
>>> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
>>> USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
>>> five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
>>>
>>That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do
>>to with Keith being a moron.
>
> It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is
> pretty famous around here.

To such things? How about to *every*thing? Is there a subject he
*isn't* full of shit on?
>
> But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
> disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
> pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
> how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
> chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
> disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
> that relies on the people to govern.
> --scott
>
Heh. Your bigotry is showing.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>>
>> But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
>> disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
>> pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
>> how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
>> chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
>> disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
>> that relies on the people to govern.
>>
>Heh. Your bigotry is showing.

Maybe. But the thing about ignorance is that it's not inherent.
Everyone starts out ignorant, and ignorance is curable.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 14:02:31 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
<taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:

>kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>news:tp4rr5$90d$1@panix2.panix.com:
>
>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in
>>>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>>>
>>>> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>>>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>>>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
>>>>>> significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
>>>>>> keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want,
>>>>>> open-ended, as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or
>>>>>> "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail boots.
>>>>>
>>>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
>>>> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
>>>> USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
>>>> five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
>>>>
>>>That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything do
>>>to with Keith being a moron.
>>
>> It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is
>> pretty famous around here.
>
>To such things? How about to *every*thing? Is there a subject he
>*isn't* full of shit on?
>>
>> But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
>> disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
>> pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
>> how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
>> chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
>> disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
>> that relies on the people to govern.
>> --scott
>>
>Heh. Your bigotry is showing.

His bigotry in favor of truth?
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 21:14:01 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
<kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

>Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>> Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism, and they have
>>> a meltdown.
>
>> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an USAian,
>> and understand the proverbial three-fifths of five-eighths of
>> fuck-all about politics.
>
>Thanks for giving us a prompt example of just such a meltdown.
>
>I agree with everything the other Gary (McGath) said, and add that
>Europe's two great examples of socialism, Russia and Germany, began
>the war in 1939 as allies to together subjugate the nations that were
>between them. Without Russia's backing, I doubt Germany would have
>been willing to risk war. So I'm not terribly sympathetic to the true
>claim that Russia suffered the most in that war. That's what happens
>to someone who fights on both sides.
>
>Instead of denouncing Americans, you should be grateful that the US
>fought against Germany. The US was under no threat except from Japan,
>and could have ignored the war in Europe and the Atlantic. Maybe next
>time it will.

Europe's greatest examples of Socialism are most of western Europe for
the later half of the twentieth century.

True that Nationalism has been making inroads in first fifth of the
twentyfirst century.
--

Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

Tim Merrigan

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> Europe's greatest examples of Socialism are most of western Europe
> for the later half of the twentieth century.

Where in western Europe? Which present-day European nations don't
have stock markets?
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

I'll be the one to point out that not only is a large part of this discussion not about dark clouds over Chengdu, but it also full of rude and ad hominen attacks. Could you all at least change the Subject line?

--
Evelyn C. Leeper

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:tp58dj$llq$1
@panix2.panix.com:

> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>>>
>>> But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
>>> disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to be
>>> pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let alone
>>> how other governments work. I attribute much of the political
>>> chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is especially
>>> disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY government
>>> that relies on the people to govern.
>>>
>>Heh. Your bigotry is showing.
>
> Maybe. But the thing about ignorance is that it's not inherent.
> Everyone starts out ignorant, and ignorance is curable.

Who said anything about ignorance? Your bigotry isn't ignorance, it's
bigotry.

To quote Dr. HOuse, "People don't change."

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote in
news:iubcrh11n1939g3j8fmrf1jfou6vno0c2i@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 04 Jan 2023 14:02:31 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in
>>news:tp4rr5$90d$1@panix2.panix.com:
>>
>>> Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote in
>>>>news:lt3g8j-k4i.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/01/2023 15:13, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> But, of course, on the other hand, there seems to be a
>>>>>>> significant subset of fandom that thinks it's just peachy
>>>>>>> keen fine to commit whatever atrocities you want,
>>>>>>> open-ended, as long as you attach a "Peoples Republic" or
>>>>>>> "Progressive" sticker to your einsatzgruppen hobnail
>>>>>>> boots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But remind them that National Socialism is socialism,
>>>>> Sigh. No, it wasn't. Not in the slightest. But you're an
>>>>> USAian, and understand the proverbial three-fifths of
>>>>> five-eighths of fuck-all about politics.
>>>>>
>>>>That has nothing to do with being from the US, and everything
>>>>do to with Keith being a moron.
>>>
>>> It's true that Keith's blindness with regard to such things is
>>> pretty famous around here.
>>
>>To such things? How about to *every*thing? Is there a subject he
>>*isn't* full of shit on?
>>>
>>> But it's also true that civics classes have pretty much
>>> disappeared in the US and a huge number of Americans seem to
>>> be pretty ignorant about how their own government works, let
>>> alone how other governments work. I attribute much of the
>>> political chaos in the past decade primarily to this. It is
>>> especially disturbing when you think that democracy is a DIY
>>> government that relies on the people to govern.
>>> --scott
>>>
>>Heh. Your bigotry is showing.
>
> His bigotry in favor of truth?

Now his bigotry is dripping off your chin.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.