A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <2046459558.682814783.492512.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>> economy,
>>>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>>
>>
>> Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he¹s authorized to pay an
>> equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they¹re still
>> using money.
>
>
> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
> gold. Oops

IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

In article
<1820992551.682849148.992516.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <2046459558.682814783.492512.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> > anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> >>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
> >>>> economy,
> >>>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
> >>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he¹s authorized to pay an
> >> equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they¹re still
> >> using money.
> >
> >
> > I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
> > gold. Oops
>
> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.

MUDD: Just three? You're sure?

RUTH: Yes. The miners are healthy and fairly young.

MUDD: Later, dear, later. Magda, did you get to your communications man?

MAGDA: The head miner is named Ben Childress. The others are Gossett
and Benton.

MUDD: And they've been there?

RUTH: Almost three years now, alone!

MUDD: Perfect. Perfect. Three of them and three lovely ladies has Harry
Mudd. And lithium crystals, my dear, are worth three hundred times
their weight in diamonds, thousands of times their weight in gold.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/4.htm

anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>> gold. Oops
>
>IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.

I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.

--
Let's go Brandon!

On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>> gold. Oops
>>
>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>
> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>
The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
episode meant "dilithium".

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <1820992551.682849148.992516.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <2046459558.682814783.492512.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>>> economy,
>>>>>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he¹s authorized to pay an
>>>> equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they¹re still
>>>> using money.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>> gold. Oops
>>
>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>
>
> MUDD: Just three? You're sure?
>
> RUTH: Yes. The miners are healthy and fairly young.
>
> MUDD: Later, dear, later. Magda, did you get to your communications man?
>
> MAGDA: The head miner is named Ben Childress. The others are Gossett
> and Benton.
>
> MUDD: And they've been there?
>
> RUTH: Almost three years now, alone!
>
> MUDD: Perfect. Perfect. Three of them and three lovely ladies has Harry
> Mudd. And lithium crystals, my dear, are worth three hundred times
> their weight in diamonds, thousands of times their weight in gold.
>
> http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/4.htm
>

Thanks! I found that but had no way to copy paste off Jacote using the
iPhone which is really annoying.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>>> gold. Oops
>>>
>>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>>> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>>
>> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>>
> The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
> episode meant "dilithium".
>

Maybe, and sort of. TOS has lithium, lithium cracking stations, and
dilithium. I always assume that’s the order in which they exist and that
dilithium is cracked with them. But we’ve seen the big E repair herself
with both lithium and freshly cracked stuff. I’m sure we could probably
wank it somehow that plain lithium can be used in a pinch but it’s a lot
better to refine it.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

In article <te0n8b$2ob9c$1@dont-email.me>, dtravel@sonic.net wrote:
> On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

>>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>>> gold. Oops
>>>
>>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so
>>> much more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>>
>> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>
>The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
>episode meant "dilithium".

Are you sure he didn't mean "mood stabilizers"? Mudd did seem a bit manic.
:-D

--
Let's go Brandon!

On 8/22/2022 2:28 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>>>> gold. Oops
>>>>
>>>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>>>> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>>>
>>> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>>>
>> The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
>> episode meant "dilithium".
>>
>
> Maybe, and sort of. TOS has lithium, lithium cracking stations, and
> dilithium. I always assume that’s the order in which they exist and that
> dilithium is cracked with them. But we’ve seen the big E repair herself
> with both lithium and freshly cracked stuff. I’m sure we could probably
> wank it somehow that plain lithium can be used in a pinch but it’s a lot
> better to refine it.
>
I seem to remember some discussion or article years ago about them all
being the same thing in TOS. The argument was largely based on the poor
continuity between the various writers using different terms for the
same thing in whatever series bible there was (assuming there even was one).

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 8/22/2022 2:47 PM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> In article <te0n8b$2ob9c$1@dont-email.me>, dtravel@sonic.net wrote:
>> On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>>>> gold. Oops
>>>>
>>>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so
>>>> much more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>>>
>>> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>>
>> The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
>> episode meant "dilithium".
>
> Are you sure he didn't mean "mood stabilizers"? Mudd did seem a bit manic.
> :-D
>
Since the Enterprise was headed for the miners because of the need to
replace their own dilithium crystals which were broken in some manner by
chasing down Mudd, I'm going with "Yes, I'm sure". :-P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/22/2022 2:28 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>>>>> gold. Oops
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>>>>> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>>>>
>>>> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>>>>
>>> The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
>>> episode meant "dilithium".
>>>
>>
>> Maybe, and sort of. TOS has lithium, lithium cracking stations, and
>> dilithium. I always assume that’s the order in which they exist and that
>> dilithium is cracked with them. But we’ve seen the big E repair herself
>> with both lithium and freshly cracked stuff. I’m sure we could probably
>> wank it somehow that plain lithium can be used in a pinch but it’s a lot
>> better to refine it.
>>
> I seem to remember some discussion or article years ago about them all
> being the same thing in TOS. The argument was largely based on the poor
> continuity between the various writers using different terms for the
> same thing in whatever series bible there was (assuming there even was one).
>

This is certainly possible but if lithium and dilithium and dilithium
crystals are all the same thing, then what is that cracking station doing?
Especially if lithium crystals can be used raw right out of the ground.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 8/22/2022 8:18 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 8/22/2022 2:28 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> On 8/22/2022 11:07 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>>>>> anim8rfsk@cox.net wrote:
>>>>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
>>>>>>> gold. Oops
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
>>>>>> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am pretty sure latnum didn't exist before DS9, maybe late in TNG.
>>>>>
>>>> The reference was to "lithium crystals" which in the context of the
>>>> episode meant "dilithium".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe, and sort of. TOS has lithium, lithium cracking stations, and
>>> dilithium. I always assume that’s the order in which they exist and that
>>> dilithium is cracked with them. But we’ve seen the big E repair herself
>>> with both lithium and freshly cracked stuff. I’m sure we could probably
>>> wank it somehow that plain lithium can be used in a pinch but it’s a lot
>>> better to refine it.
>>>
>> I seem to remember some discussion or article years ago about them all
>> being the same thing in TOS. The argument was largely based on the poor
>> continuity between the various writers using different terms for the
>> same thing in whatever series bible there was (assuming there even was one).
>>
>
> This is certainly possible but if lithium and dilithium and dilithium
> crystals are all the same thing, then what is that cracking station doing?
> Especially if lithium crystals can be used raw right out of the ground.
>
Sounds like a question for Scotty, not me.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 2022-08-20 10:53 p.m., RichA wrote:
>> The problem is only half solved, however, as through the
>> various shows it is shown that there are still actual people who are in
>> jobs such as bartending or waiting on tables — but what’s the point if
>> there is no wage and no opportunity to progress in this career?

To feel useful? To socialize? Why do people play mobile games that
simulate bartending? (There are such. Go Google them.)

>> Not everyone can be a business owner, so surely there must be ten
>> subservient roles needed to be fulfilled for every one privileged
>> owner, with no apparent way to escape this.

Divide the work up evenly: everyone spends 9/10 of the time doing the
"subservient" roles and 1/10 doing the "privileged" ones, instead of
1/10 of the people doing the "privileged" roles full-time and the other
9/10 none of the time.

Also, maybe the "subservient" roles don't seem that way when doing them
is wholly voluntary, rather than compelled by a horrific ethos of "work,
or you don't eat". Likewise, the "privileged" roles may not seem that
way if they don't pay better (or at all), or give any other perks (for
example, you don't get to bully the other workers if the other workers
can easily, without risking starvation or exposure, say "screw you, I'm
outta here" rather than submit to it).

> There was some rational thought going on. Picard owns a vineyard, probably because not
> everyone wants replicated wine, so some wants are still regulated by scarcity. The guy
> who sold tribbles sold them for something,

"Credits", presumably used in the fringe regions near Federation and
Klingon space. In other areas on the periphery of or outside the
Federation, "gold-pressed latinum" is used as currency.

> though Spock does say he has a modest living.

He may be referring to his level of consumption, rather than money; or,
given their propensity to travel (and sometimes have shore leave)
outside Federation borders, perhaps Starfleet personnel get allowances
in currencies like credits and latinum to spend there.

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

On 2022-08-20 8:53 p.m., RichA wrote:
> On Saturday, 20 August 2022 at 21:06:08 UTC-4, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> Star Trek has a huge universe that is constantly growing through the
>> additions of new shows and movies into the franchise. Holding up the
>> narratives and vast array of alien life forms is a solid foundation of
>> lore, fiction science, and various socio-political structures. Among
>> these is Starfleet, a military/exploration organization (the era in
>> question determines which aspect will have the emphasis). This
>> organization's history and formal structure has been fleshed out a lot
>> over the years. One of the key fundamentals of their culture, which
>> spreads across a lot of the Federation — not just Earth — is their
>> ‘evolution’ away from currency and monetary importance. While this
>> sounds utopian in design, it does create some fairly dark issues.
>>
>> The idea that the Federation had ridden itself of the need for money
>> was first introduced in the golden age of Starfleet, during the early
>> days of The Next Generation. The Federation had grown almost complacent
>> over the years of peace: the war with the Klingons had ended, and the
>> Romulans were keeping to themselves. Their evolution past money was
>> something pioneered by Gene Roddenberry, the show's creator, in an
>> effort to show the most ideal and utopian version of what humanity can
>> achieve in the distant future. As the show began to distance itself
>> from Roddenberry, however, who suffered a multitude of health problems
>> at the time, they began to drift away from his vision, often for the
>> best. And in later series, they began to poke holes in the moneyless
>> culture.
>>
>> One such hole, vaguely conceptualized during the last season of TNG,
>> was that the Federation economy was much more trapping and controlling
>> than first appearances might suggest, and acted as a fairly solid brick
>> wall for social mobility. The idea of limiting people into very narrow
>> career paths and choices is present (shown rather than specifically
>> explored) within the Picard show. In this series, the stoic captain has
>> grown old, and has retired from Starfleet to run his ancestral vineyard
>> in France. This is great for him, a man who has inherited this land,
>> but what would happen if someone else wanted a change in career and
>> wanted to make wine?

There probably is some vine-growing land that is up for grabs because
the previous owners released it to the government because they had no
interest in viticulture. Alternative they take off to one of the
underpopulated colonies that has some suitable land. They'd just have
to show the government that they were serious about their pursuit of
such a career.

>> How could one can they ‘buy’ a vineyard when money
>> no longer exists? Picard shows that inherited wealth is still
>> prevalent, as Picard explicitly owns the vineyard, and there is no
>> suggestion of a communist or sharing scheme. The Federation economy
>> only makes it harder for everyone else to achieve dreams unrelated to
>> what they were born into.
>>
>> The same issue is present with the morally ambiguous Captain Sisko’s
>> New Orleans restaurant in Deep Space 9. It’s great for Sisko, but what
>> about someone else who wants to open up their own place in the same
>> area? The lack of money eliminates even the possibility of purchasing
>> an establishment. The only other option to rely on a barter system
>> which, effectively, is a primitive and far less measurable form of
>> currency. If one doesn’t have the inherited wealth, what exactly can
>> they offer in exchange that the ‘wealthy’ (for want of a better word)
>> would not already have?
>>
>> The other issue that arises in a world without money is another double
>> edge sword. Removing monetary incentive removes a massive pressure on
>> people who are working endlessly to simply put food on the table. The
>> Federation of the 24th century has eradicated world hunger through the
>> widespread use of replicators, and providing shelter does not seem to
>> be an issue. This creates a problem, however. If people don’t need to
>> work to live, who would do the unsavory jobs necessary for a society to
>> function?
>>
>> Star Trek has provided half an answer for this, using AI and automated
>> systems to carry out the majority of these functions, although this
>> does raise another issue regarding the ethics of creating a permanent
>> slave race.

Full AI probably isn't necessary for the really dirty jobs.

>> The problem is only half solved, however, as through the
>> various shows it is shown that there are still actual people who are in
>> jobs such as bartending or waiting on tables — but what’s the point if
>> there is no wage and no opportunity to progress in this career?

Keeping the damn shrinks off your back.

>> Not everyone can be a business owner, so surely there must be ten
>> subservient roles needed to be fulfilled for every one privileged
>> owner, with no apparent way to escape this.
>>
>> The Federation economy is one of those science fiction concepts that
>> sounds, on paper, to be utopian. But the further the concept is
>> explored, the more holes can be found in its logic, and various
>> societal dark underbellies are shown. It may seem like a freeing
>> notion, to not be tied down by the necessity to make money each and
>> every day to survive. But strangely, by removing this, the Federation
>> has managed to find a way to solidify even further the massive class
>> divide that exists today. Ironically, it's impossible to eliminate
>> poverty by taking away all the money. It only seems like this is
>> possible because audiences are only shown the lives of the social
>> elites, such as Picard.
>>
>> --
>> Let's go Brandon!
>
> There was some rational thought going on. Picard owns a vineyard, probably because not
> everyone wants replicated wine, so some wants are still regulated by scarcity. The guy who sold tribbles sold them for something, though
> Spock does say he has a modest living.

The guy who sold tribbles lived before Earth got taken over by the
commies.

davidjohnston29@yahoo.com wrote:
> On 2022-08-20 8:53 p.m., RichA wrote:
>> On Saturday, 20 August 2022 at 21:06:08 UTC-4, Ubiquitous wrote:

>>> Star Trek has a huge universe that is constantly growing through the
>>> additions of new shows and movies into the franchise. Holding up the
>>> narratives and vast array of alien life forms is a solid foundation of
>>> lore, fiction science, and various socio-political structures. Among
>>> these is Starfleet, a military/exploration organization (the era in
>>> question determines which aspect will have the emphasis). This
>>> organization's history and formal structure has been fleshed out a lot
>>> over the years. One of the key fundamentals of their culture, which
>>> spreads across a lot of the Federation — not just Earth — is their
>>> ‘evolution’ away from currency and monetary importance. While this
>>> sounds utopian in design, it does create some fairly dark issues.
>>>
>>> The idea that the Federation had ridden itself of the need for money
>>> was first introduced in the golden age of Starfleet, during the early
>>> days of The Next Generation. The Federation had grown almost complacent
>>> over the years of peace: the war with the Klingons had ended, and the
>>> Romulans were keeping to themselves. Their evolution past money was
>>> something pioneered by Gene Roddenberry, the show's creator, in an
>>> effort to show the most ideal and utopian version of what humanity can
>>> achieve in the distant future. As the show began to distance itself
>>> from Roddenberry, however, who suffered a multitude of health problems
>>> at the time, they began to drift away from his vision, often for the
>>> best. And in later series, they began to poke holes in the moneyless
>>> culture.
>>>
>>> One such hole, vaguely conceptualized during the last season of TNG,
>>> was that the Federation economy was much more trapping and controlling
>>> than first appearances might suggest, and acted as a fairly solid brick
>>> wall for social mobility. The idea of limiting people into very narrow
>>> career paths and choices is present (shown rather than specifically
>>> explored) within the Picard show. In this series, the stoic captain has
>>> grown old, and has retired from Starfleet to run his ancestral vineyard
>>> in France. This is great for him, a man who has inherited this land,
>>> but what would happen if someone else wanted a change in career and
>>> wanted to make wine?
>
>There probably is some vine-growing land that is up for grabs because
>the previous owners released it to the government because they had no
>interest in viticulture. Alternative they take off to one of the
>underpopulated colonies that has some suitable land. They'd just have
>to show the government that they were serious about their pursuit of
>such a career.

Why would they have to prove need to Starfleet?

>>> How could one can they ‘buy’ a vineyard when money
>>> no longer exists? Picard shows that inherited wealth is still
>>> prevalent, as Picard explicitly owns the vineyard, and there is no
>>> suggestion of a communist or sharing scheme. The Federation economy
>>> only makes it harder for everyone else to achieve dreams unrelated to
>>> what they were born into.
>>>
>>> The same issue is present with the morally ambiguous Captain Sisko’s
>>> New Orleans restaurant in Deep Space 9. It’s great for Sisko, but what
>>> about someone else who wants to open up their own place in the same
>>> area? The lack of money eliminates even the possibility of purchasing
>>> an establishment. The only other option to rely on a barter system
>>> which, effectively, is a primitive and far less measurable form of
>>> currency. If one doesn’t have the inherited wealth, what exactly can
>>> they offer in exchange that the ‘wealthy’ (for want of a better word)
>>> would not already have?
>>>
>>> The other issue that arises in a world without money is another double
>>> edge sword. Removing monetary incentive removes a massive pressure on
>>> people who are working endlessly to simply put food on the table. The
>>> Federation of the 24th century has eradicated world hunger through the
>>> widespread use of replicators, and providing shelter does not seem to
>>> be an issue. This creates a problem, however. If people don’t need to
>>> work to live, who would do the unsavory jobs necessary for a society to
>>> function?
>>>
>>> Star Trek has provided half an answer for this, using AI and automated
>>> systems to carry out the majority of these functions, although this
>>> does raise another issue regarding the ethics of creating a permanent
>>> slave race.
>
>Full AI probably isn't necessary for the really dirty jobs.
>
>>> The problem is only half solved, however, as through the
>>> various shows it is shown that there are still actual people who are in
>>> jobs such as bartending or waiting on tables — but what's the point if
>>> there is no wage and no opportunity to progress in this career?
>
>Keeping the damn shrinks off your back.
>
>>> Not everyone can be a business owner, so surely there must be ten
>>> subservient roles needed to be fulfilled for every one privileged
>>> owner, with no apparent way to escape this.
>>>
>>> The Federation economy is one of those science fiction concepts that
>>> sounds, on paper, to be utopian. But the further the concept is
>>> explored, the more holes can be found in its logic, and various
>>> societal dark underbellies are shown. It may seem like a freeing
>>> notion, to not be tied down by the necessity to make money each and
>>> every day to survive. But strangely, by removing this, the Federation
>>> has managed to find a way to solidify even further the massive class
>>> divide that exists today. Ironically, it's impossible to eliminate
>>> poverty by taking away all the money. It only seems like this is
>>> possible because audiences are only shown the lives of the social
>>> elites, such as Picard.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Let's go Brandon!
>>
>> There was some rational thought going on. Picard owns a vineyard,
>> probably because not everyone wants replicated wine, so some wants
>> are still regulated by scarcity. The guy who sold tribbles sold
>> them for something, though Spock does say he has a modest living.

Wasn't there a throwaway line about synth alcohol not being as good?

>The guy who sold tribbles lived before Earth got taken over by the
>commies.

Or left before it happened...

--
Let's go Brandon!

You miss the big picture.

Goin back to TOS there is replicator technology though since it's a tv/movie show the extent and actual function is not explored at all. Remember the Kirk tells Scotty that he's "earned his pay for the week". TNG clearly uses some sort of credit system but again not explored at all. {Anything after TNG is garbage and increasingly unwatchable.)

Beyond replicators it's not at all clear how anything works. Data is the only fully functional AI robot and he couldn't even keep his "child" alive. I don't even remember any novels going into how the broader Federation works.

One of the things SF gets so wrong is what happens if the base question of economics (How to meet unlimited desires with limited resources.) gets flipped on its head. What happens when you have access to and entire solar system(s) resources and most of the populations "demands" is three hots, a cot, entertainment, and some recreational substances.