One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to Rings of Power
is that they should never have used Middle Earth as the setting. They
should have made the series as a general fantasy series that was
influenced by Tolkien, but not an actual Middle Earth story.

Cheesy Quackers wrote:

> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to Rings of
> Power is that they should never have used Middle Earth as the
> setting. They should have made the series as a general fantasy
> series that was influenced by Tolkien, but not an actual Middle
> Earth story.

That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official setting
the series might not have attracted as many viewers... although now,
a lot will switch off before the end of the season anyway.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 11:43:16 -0000 (UTC), Cheesy Quackers
<cheesyquackers@duck.com> wrote:

>One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to Rings of Power
>is that they should never have used Middle Earth as the setting. They
>should have made the series as a general fantasy series that was
>influenced by Tolkien, but not an actual Middle Earth story.

Shannara Chrionicles tried that and failed (I'm aware it was based on
a Tolkien knock-off series of books).

As far as I'm concerned it was cheap and cheerful compared to the
earnest and lethargic Rings of Power, and much more enjoyable.

I'm still hoping for a TV version of Jim Butcher's Codex Alera, but
expect I'll be disappointed.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

"Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:

> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>
>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle Earth
>> as the setting. They should have made the series as a general
>> fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but not an
>> actual Middle Earth story.
>
> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
> setting the series might not have attracted as many viewers...
> although now, a lot will switch off before the end of the season
> anyway.
>
Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250 million
for the rights.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>
>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle Earth
>>> as the setting. They should have made the series as a general
>>> fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but not an
>>> actual Middle Earth story.
>>
>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>> setting the series might not have attracted as many viewers...
>> although now, a lot will switch off before the end of the season
>> anyway.
>
> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250 million
> for the rights.

Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders (the
grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in the Peter
Jackson films).

On 9/9/2022 7:05 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
>> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle Earth
>>>> as the setting. They should have made the series as a general
>>>> fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but not an
>>>> actual Middle Earth story.
>>>
>>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>>> setting the series might not have attracted as many viewers...
>>> although now, a lot will switch off before the end of the season
>>> anyway.
>>
>> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250 million
>> for the rights.
>
> Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders (the
> grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in the Peter
> Jackson films).
>
The Jackson films were okay'd by JRRT's son who was already very old.
He had always been VERY careful about his father's legacy and was not
approving Middle Earth projects very often. When the son retired the
next generation of Tolkiens gained control and they very much want to
cash in. They are the ones who gave permission for 'Rings of Power'.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote in
news:tfgrcd$qsv$1@gioia.aioe.org:

> On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
>> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle
>>>> Earth as the setting. They should have made the series as a
>>>> general fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but
>>>> not an actual Middle Earth story.
>>>
>>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>>> setting the series might not have attracted as many viewers...
>>> although now, a lot will switch off before the end of the
>>> season anyway.
>>
>> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250
>> million for the rights.
>
> Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders
> (the grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in the
> Peter Jackson films).
>
Yeah, the rights the films were based on were sold decades ago. Which
is why the TV show is so limited in what it can use. (One of the
lawyers - who specializes in this sort of thing - said it was the
most complicated contracts he's ever seen.)

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
news:tfh1il$19cm6$1@dont-email.me:

> On 9/9/2022 7:05 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>>> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
>>> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle
>>>>> Earth as the setting. They should have made the series as a
>>>>> general fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but
>>>>> not an actual Middle Earth story.
>>>>
>>>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>>>> setting the series might not have attracted as many
>>>> viewers... although now, a lot will switch off before the end
>>>> of the season anyway.
>>>
>>> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250
>>> million for the rights.
>>
>> Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders
>> (the grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in
>> the Peter Jackson films).
>>
> The Jackson films were okay'd by JRRT's son who was already very
> old.

He may have OK's them, but his OK wasn't in any way needed.

Plus, Christopher hated the movies from day one.

https://www.indiewire.com/2013/01/christopher-tolkien-trashes-
peter-jacksons-lord-of-the-rings-says-films-lack-beauty-and-
seriousness-of-the-books-102485/

https://tinyurl.com/4fvvbjvu

> He had always been VERY careful about his father's legacy
> and was not approving Middle Earth projects very often.

The problem being, his father sold the movie rights long ago, and
had no say in the movies.

> When
> the son retired the next generation of Tolkiens gained control
> and they very much want to cash in. They are the ones who gave
> permission for 'Rings of Power'.
>
And many speculate that the main reason Christopher objected to the
movies was that he didn't get any cash payments for rights he no
longer controlled.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On 2022-09-10 03:50:46 +0000, Dimensional Traveler said:

> On 9/9/2022 7:05 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>>> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
>>> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle Earth
>>>>> as the setting. They should have made the series as a general
>>>>> fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but not an
>>>>> actual Middle Earth story.
>>>>
>>>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>>>> setting the series might not have attracted as many viewers...
>>>> although now, a lot will switch off before the end of the season
>>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250 million
>>> for the rights.
>>
>> Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders (the
>> grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in the Peter
>> Jackson films).
>>
> The Jackson films were okay'd by JRRT's son who was already very old.
> He had always been VERY careful about his father's legacy and was not
> approving Middle Earth projects very often. When the son retired the
> next generation of Tolkiens gained control and they very much want to
> cash in. They are the ones who gave permission for 'Rings of Power'.

Tolkien's son, Christopher Tolkien, didn't even *like* Peter Jackson's
movies, let alone "okay'd" them. The movie rights were sold off
completely, and the family had no say in anything about the movies. The
TV rights are very different though, with the family retaining overall
control.

Christopher Tolkien Trashes Peter Jackson's 'Lord Of The Rings,'
Says Films Lack "Beauty And Seriousness" Of The Books

"They eviscerated the book by making it an action movie for
young people aged 15 to 25," Christopher said of "The Lord Of
The Rings," revealing he turned down an invitation to meet
Jackson. "And it seems that 'The Hobbit' will be the same
kind of film." And while most families of authors would be
thrilled to be associated with a billion dollar franchise
(even if, in this case, they only get a small portion of that
coin), as Christopher's son notes, that's not the case here.

"Normally, the executors of the estate want to promote a work
as much as they can," Adam Tolkien said. "But we are just the
opposite. We want to put the spotlight on that which is not
'Lord of the Rings.' "

<https://www.indiewire.com/2013/01/christopher-tolkien-trashes-peter-jacksons-lord-of-the-rings-says-films-lack-beauty-and-seriousness-of-the-books-102485/>

On 2022-09-10 04:01:30 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
> news:tfh1il$19cm6$1@dont-email.me:
>> On 9/9/2022 7:05 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>>>> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
>>>> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>>>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>>>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle
>>>>>> Earth as the setting. They should have made the series as a
>>>>>> general fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien, but
>>>>>> not an actual Middle Earth story.
>>>>>
>>>>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>>>>> setting the series might not have attracted as many
>>>>> viewers... although now, a lot will switch off before the end
>>>>> of the season anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250
>>>> million for the rights.
>>>
>>> Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders
>>> (the grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in
>>> the Peter Jackson films).
>>>
>> The Jackson films were okay'd by JRRT's son who was already very
>> old.
>
> He may have OK's them, but his OK wasn't in any way needed.
>
> Plus, Christopher hated the movies from day one.
>
> https://www.indiewire.com/2013/01/christopher-tolkien-trashes-
> peter-jacksons-lord-of-the-rings-says-films-lack-beauty-and-
> seriousness-of-the-books-102485/
>
> https://tinyurl.com/4fvvbjvu
>
>> He had always been VERY careful about his father's legacy
>> and was not approving Middle Earth projects very often.
>
> The problem being, his father sold the movie rights long ago, and
> had no say in the movies.
>
>> When
>> the son retired the next generation of Tolkiens gained control
>> and they very much want to cash in. They are the ones who gave
>> permission for 'Rings of Power'.
>>
> And many speculate that the main reason Christopher objected to the
> movies was that he didn't get any cash payments for rights he no
> longer controlled.

Yep. The Tolkien Estate was paid a rather measley amount for the movie
rights and didn't get any share in the profits, but that was their
choice at the time. It's a little like George Lucas retaining the
merchandise rights for Star Wars, so in hindsight the studio lost out
on *a lot* of money.

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote in
news:tfh4rh$1p3p$1@gioia.aioe.org:

> On 2022-09-10 04:01:30 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in
>> news:tfh1il$19cm6$1@dont-email.me:
>>> On 9/9/2022 7:05 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-10 00:19:56 +0000, Ninapenda Jibini said:
>>>>> "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote in
>>>>> news:tffb19$e9f$1@gioia.aioe.org:
>>>>>> Cheesy Quackers wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the best arguments that I have heard in relation to
>>>>>>> Rings of Power is that they should never have used Middle
>>>>>>> Earth as the setting. They should have made the series as
>>>>>>> a general fantasy series that was influenced by Tolkien,
>>>>>>> but not an actual Middle Earth story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That might have worked, but without the 'name' and official
>>>>>> setting the series might not have attracted as many
>>>>>> viewers... although now, a lot will switch off before the
>>>>>> end of the season anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fewer viewers vs lower production costs, starting with $250
>>>>> million for the rights.
>>>>
>>>> Also less interference by the current Tolkien license holders
>>>> (the grandson was involved in the TV show, but had no say in
>>>> the Peter Jackson films).
>>>>
>>> The Jackson films were okay'd by JRRT's son who was already
>>> very old.
>>
>> He may have OK's them, but his OK wasn't in any way needed.
>>
>> Plus, Christopher hated the movies from day one.
>>
>> https://www.indiewire.com/2013/01/christopher-tolkien-trashes-
>> peter-jacksons-lord-of-the-rings-says-films-lack-beauty-and-
>> seriousness-of-the-books-102485/
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/4fvvbjvu
>>
>>> He had always been VERY careful about his father's legacy
>>> and was not approving Middle Earth projects very often.
>>
>> The problem being, his father sold the movie rights long ago,
>> and had no say in the movies.
>>
>>> When
>>> the son retired the next generation of Tolkiens gained control
>>> and they very much want to cash in. They are the ones who
>>> gave permission for 'Rings of Power'.
>>>
>> And many speculate that the main reason Christopher objected to
>> the movies was that he didn't get any cash payments for rights
>> he no longer controlled.
>
> Yep. The Tolkien Estate was paid a rather measley amount for the
> movie rights and didn't get any share in the profits, but that
> was their choice at the time.

Apparently, J.R.R. needed the money at the time to "pay a tax
bill." (It wasn't the estate that sold the rights, it was the old
man himself, in 1969, in a deal with United Artists. The amount
I've seen is $100,000, which was a lot more than than it is now,
but still less than it really should have been.)

> It's a little like George Lucas
> retaining the merchandise rights for Star Wars, so in hindsight
> the studio lost out on *a lot* of money.
>
I'm crying crocodile tears for them. No, really.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.