The Ravens: "Wagon Wheels" - MERCURY 5764; NOVEMBER 1951

https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/the-ravens-wagon-wheels-mercury-5764/

YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nj-6RGRLcM

SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 1/10

excerpt from Samp's review:

This record is a black eye on The Ravens legacy, a shameful compromise of their integrity in order to not offend the major record company who employed them… a company who clearly did not mind offending them personally, nor did they seem to have any concern about offending their true audience..

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:12:47 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> excerpt from Samp's review:
> This record is a black eye on The Ravens legacy, a shameful compromise of their integrity in order to not offend the major record company who employed them… a company who clearly did not mind offending them
> personally, nor did they seem to have any concern about offending their true audience.

I can agree with that. It wasn't quite the embarrassment that "Phantom Stage Couch" [sic] was, but it was embarrassing enough.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:17:49 AM UTC-4, Dean F. wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:12:47 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>
> > excerpt from Samp's review:
>
> > This record is a black eye on The Ravens legacy, a shameful compromise of their integrity in order to not offend the major record company who employed them… a company who clearly did not mind offending them
> > personally, nor did they seem to have any concern about offending their true audience.
> I can agree with that. It wasn't quite the embarrassment that "Phantom Stage Couch" [sic] was, but it was embarrassing enough.

For me, as Samp says....

had no interest in lyrics to begin with – and there are plenty of those people I’m sure who will find Wagon Wheels perfectly acceptable, even moderately appealing

I find it more than moderately appealing. It gets a 7, and it's on my list of 1951 favorites at #208. And I would not be at all surprised if recording this was the group's own idea.

There's other doo wop versions of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFzbkexA0Vw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKLR9dm39Ww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbu1jbNjRyU

And I doubt very much that these groups looked at this as anything more than recording an old standard that they thought might fit their style. I think Samp is guilty here of doing something he has been preaching against, and that is judging 1951 records by modern standards.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:23:51 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> I find it more than moderately appealing. It gets a 7, and it's on my list of 1951 favorites at #208. And I would not be at all surprised if recording this was the group's own idea.

So there are 207 songs from 1951 that you like than "Wagon Wheels." Sounds more like you're damning it with faint praise.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:23:51 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> I find it more than moderately appealing. It gets a 7, and it's on my list of 1951 favorites at #208.

So there are 207 songs from 1951 that you like better than "Wagon Wheels." Sounds like you're damning it with faint praise.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 5:08:38 AM UTC-4, Dean F. wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:23:51 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>
> > I find it more than moderately appealing. It gets a 7, and it's on my list of 1951 favorites at #208.
> So there are 207 songs from 1951 that you like better than "Wagon Wheels." Sounds like you're damning it with faint praise.

Not at all. There are almost 750 songs on my 1956 list, and even the songs at the bottom are very good.

Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?

All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing about picking cotton?

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022 21:05:15 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>The Ravens: "Wagon Wheels" - MERCURY 5764; NOVEMBER 1951
>
>
>https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/the-ravens-wagon-wheels-mercury-5764/
>
>
>YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nj-6RGRLcM
>
>
>SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 1/10

I don't care for the song itself in any version but a "1" is well
below the belt. A 4 seems reasonable to me

Never in any of the old battles,nobody ever nominated it either

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
delete same before responding.Thank you!

On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?
>
>All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing about picking cotton?

As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with
its lyrics

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
delete same before responding.Thank you!

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?
> >
> >All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing about picking cotton?
> As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with
> its lyrics

So does that mean you disagree with Samp?

On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:43:24 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>> >Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?
>> >
>> >All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing about picking cotton?
>> As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with
>> its lyrics
>
>So does that mean you disagree with Samp?

If he is basing his negative opinion on just lyrics then yes I
disagree

My negative opinion is based on SOUND and therefore extends to The
Platters and several other versions

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
delete same before responding.Thank you!

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:43:24 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?
> >> >
> >> >All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing about picking cotton?
> >> As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with
> >> its lyrics
> >
> >So does that mean you disagree with Samp?
> If he is basing his negative opinion on just lyrics then yes I
> disagree
>
> My negative opinion is based on SOUND and therefore extends to The
> Platters and several other versions

I'm not referring to his low rating of the record, I'm referring to his point that he thinks it was a disgrace for a black vocal group to sing a song about picking cotton. He blames the record company for making them record that song. I say that they very well may have chosen that song themselves, and that they probably did not consider it as shameful to reco0rd a song about that subject.

On 9/7/2022 8:17 AM, Bruce wrote:
> sing a song about picking cotton.

Redd Foxx had a joke , iirc, about his father or another relative that
died from a headache because he refused to pick the cotton out of the
aspirin bottle.

--
Steve Mc

DNA to SBC to respond

On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 08:17:12 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:43:24 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> wrote:=20
>>=20
>> >On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:=
>=20
>> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=20
>> >> wrote:=20
>> >> >Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> >All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing a=
>bout picking cotton?=20
>> >> As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with=20
>> >> its lyrics=20
>> >=20
>> >So does that mean you disagree with Samp?
>> If he is basing his negative opinion on just lyrics then yes I=20
>> disagree=20
>>=20
>> My negative opinion is based on SOUND and therefore extends to The=20
>> Platters and several other versions
>
>I'm not referring to his low rating of the record, I'm referring to his poi=
>nt that he thinks it was a disgrace for a black vocal group to sing a song =
>about picking cotton. He blames the record company for making them record t=
>hat song. I say that they very well may have chosen that song themselves, a=
>nd that they probably did not consider it as shameful to reco0rd a song abo=
>ut that subject.=20

As I thought I'd made made clear I base my opinion entirely on the
SOUND of the finished record.

I don't care about the lyrics or any intent on the song (whether by
the producers or the group) or anything else

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
delete same before responding.Thank you!

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 3:28:24 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 08:17:12 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:43:24 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> >> wrote:=20
> >>=20
> >> >On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:=
> >=20
> >> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=20
> >> >> wrote:=20
> >> >> >Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?=20
> >> >> >=20
> >> >> >All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing a=
> >bout picking cotton?=20
> >> >> As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with=20
> >> >> its lyrics=20
> >> >=20
> >> >So does that mean you disagree with Samp?
> >> If he is basing his negative opinion on just lyrics then yes I=20
> >> disagree=20
> >>=20
> >> My negative opinion is based on SOUND and therefore extends to The=20
> >> Platters and several other versions
> >
> >I'm not referring to his low rating of the record, I'm referring to his poi=
> >nt that he thinks it was a disgrace for a black vocal group to sing a song =
> >about picking cotton. He blames the record company for making them record t=
> >hat song. I say that they very well may have chosen that song themselves, a=
> >nd that they probably did not consider it as shameful to reco0rd a song abo=
> >ut that subject.=20
>
> As I thought I'd made made clear I base my opinion entirely on the
> SOUND of the finished record.
>
> I don't care about the lyrics or any intent on the song (whether by
> the producers or the group) or anything else

So what the record is about will never effect your opinion of it? That's how I am, but do you really feel that way? If a record was hailing Muslim terrorism against the West, could you rate it well or would that make it impossible for you to like?

On 9/7/2022 12:05 AM, Bruce wrote:
> The Ravens: "Wagon Wheels" - MERCURY 5764; NOVEMBER 1951
>
>
> https://www.spontaneouslunacy.net/the-ravens-wagon-wheels-mercury-5764/
>
>
> YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Nj-6RGRLcM
>
>
> SPONTANEOUS LUNACY VERDICT: 1/10
---------
Okay, I listened to it. I didn't like it at all--and I couldn't even
understand the lyrics, so it wasn't that. There are just a lot of
Ravens records I don't like, especially the ones with that bass lead.
He sounds phony to me. I know he's very acclaimed but not by me.

On 9/7/2022 11:34 AM, Steve Mc wrote:
> On 9/7/2022 8:17 AM, Bruce wrote:
>> sing a song about picking cotton.
>
>
> Redd Foxx had a joke , iirc, about his father or another relative that
> died from a headache because he refused to pick the cotton out of the
> aspirin bottle.
>
------------
Around 1970 Redd Foxx was in the movie "Cotton Comes To Harlem." I
think the last scene in the movie was Redd Foxx lounging in a truckload
full of cotton. This is just a random memory triggered by your post.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:37:31 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?

Just listened to it again for the first time in 20 or so years. It's better than I thought. I might give it a 5.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 6:52:32 PM UTC-4, Dean F. wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:37:31 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>
> > Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?

> Just listened to it again for the first time in 20 or so years. It's better than I thought. I might give it a 5.

I was referring to what he thinks about a black act doing a song about picking cotton.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 6:58:45 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> I was referring to what he thinks about a black act doing a song about picking cotton.

Oh, is that what it's about? I didn't listen to the words.

On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 12:38:58 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 3:28:24 PM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 08:17:12 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:43:24 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> >> wrote:=20
>> >>=20
>> >> >On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 9:41:52 AM UTC-4, Roger Ford wrote:=
>> >=20
>> >> >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>=20
>> >> >> wrote:=20
>> >> >> >Anybody else agree with Samp here besides Dean?=20
>> >> >> >=20
>> >> >> >All you lyrics people, was it a horrid thing for the Ravens to sing a=
>> >bout picking cotton?=20
>> >> >> As I said I don't care for the song but that has nothing to do with=20
>> >> >> its lyrics=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> >So does that mean you disagree with Samp?
>> >> If he is basing his negative opinion on just lyrics then yes I=20
>> >> disagree=20
>> >>=20
>> >> My negative opinion is based on SOUND and therefore extends to The=20
>> >> Platters and several other versions
>> >
>> >I'm not referring to his low rating of the record, I'm referring to his poi=
>> >nt that he thinks it was a disgrace for a black vocal group to sing a song =
>> >about picking cotton. He blames the record company for making them record t=
>> >hat song. I say that they very well may have chosen that song themselves, a=
>> >nd that they probably did not consider it as shameful to reco0rd a song abo=
>> >ut that subject.=20
>>
>> As I thought I'd made made clear I base my opinion entirely on the
>> SOUND of the finished record.
>>
>> I don't care about the lyrics or any intent on the song (whether by
>> the producers or the group) or anything else
>
>So what the record is about will never effect your opinion of it? That's how I am, but do you really feel that way? If a record was hailing Muslim terrorism against the West, could you rate it well or would that make it impossible for you to like?

Such a scenario as you describre would exist only on the dark web and
has no chance at all of occuring with the music I listen to.

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mariabus@bblueyonder.co.uk) Please
delete same before responding.Thank you!