On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 4:03:56 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
>
> In the case of "Lost In Sin," Bill, were you comparing it to "Peace Of
> Mind?" To me, it lost points for changing the lyrics, but I still liked it.

Same with me.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 3:28:53 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 3:25:07 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-4, bb...@optonline.net wrote:
> > > On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 2:48:52 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 2:35:33 PM UTC-4, bb.. wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 2:07:50 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > So you guys all have selective use of this "it's an imitation" rule. If you like the cover or remake better you ignore the rule. If you prefer the original version, then you cite the rule.
> > > >
> > > > > You're once again venturing into the absurd. No one automatically prefers the originals to the covers. The "rule" is simply that covers lose points.
> > > > So give us an example of a cover that you think is slightly better than the original, but you rate it lower because it loses points.
> > > Why?
> > Why not?
> If what you say is true, it should be no problem to find examples of this.. On the other hand, if you can't find an example of this, then I must conclude that it's just what you are saying, but not what you are actually doing.
>
> Which version of "Why Don't You Write Me" do you prefer, Feathers or Jacks, and if it's Jacks, you must think that there's a big difference if the Jacks can overcome the penalty it gets for being a cover, no?

This also means that your rating of a record can change after decades if you discover that it wasn't original when you thought it was.

Diane, do you rate "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" lower now that you found out that Hank did not write the song himself, but instead bought the song outright from the young man who actually wrote it, Paul Gilley. Does it get lowered even more because of this quote from Hank.. "Awful pretty song, I think one of the prettiest things that I ever had the pleasure of comin' up with."

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-4, Bill B wrote:

>The "rule" is simply that covers lose points. To put it in another positive way, originality and creativity are valued.

On 9/18/2022 4:10 PM, Bruce wrote:

>
> This also means that your rating of a record can change after decades if you discover that it wasn't original when you thought it was.
>
---------
When I first heard Alvin Robinson's original version of "Down Home
Girl," which I only knew--for decades--as a Rolling Stones record, I
almost lost my mind. It was *so* much better. So, yes, if I discover
the original version *and the original version sounds better than the
familiar remake*, my rating of a record can change after decades.
Pardon the pun, but the Rolling Stones record now pales by comparison.
-------------
> Diane, do you rate "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" lower now that you found out that Hank did not write the song himself, but instead bought the song outright from the young man who actually wrote it, Paul Gilley. Does it get lowered even more because of this quote from Hank.. "Awful pretty song, I think one of the prettiest things that I ever had the pleasure of comin' up with."
------------
Not at all. I knew it as "Oh, yeah, that B.J. Thomas record" and when I
heard Hank Williams' version I was blown away, and I'm still blown away
every time I hear it. The only other version that approaches it, for
me, is Z.Z. Hill's 1981 recording, out of the hundreds or maybe
thousands of recorded versions. I never said "the original is always
better," and neither did Bill or anyone else.

I also don't give a record extra points for being written and sung by
the same person. One of my favorite artists is Linda Ronstadt, who
never wrote a song.

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 7:38:51 PM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
> On 9/18/2022 4:10 PM, Bruce wrote:
>
> >
> > This also means that your rating of a record can change after decades if you discover that it wasn't original when you thought it was.
> >
> ---------
> When I first heard Alvin Robinson's original version of "Down Home
> Girl," which I only knew--for decades--as a Rolling Stones record, I
> almost lost my mind. It was *so* much better. So, yes, if I discover
> the original version *and the original version sounds better than the
> familiar remake*, my rating of a record can change after decades.
> Pardon the pun, but the Rolling Stones record now pales by comparison.
> -------------
> > Diane, do you rate "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" lower now that you found out that Hank did not write the song himself, but instead bought the song outright from the young man who actually wrote it, Paul Gilley. Does it get lowered even more because of this quote from Hank.. "Awful pretty song, I think one of the prettiest things that I ever had the pleasure of comin' up with."
> ------------
> Not at all. I knew it as "Oh, yeah, that B.J. Thomas record" and when I
> heard Hank Williams' version I was blown away, and I'm still blown away
> every time I hear it. The only other version that approaches it, for
> me, is Z.Z. Hill's 1981 recording, out of the hundreds or maybe
> thousands of recorded versions. I never said "the original is always
> better," and neither did Bill or anyone else.
>
> I also don't give a record extra points for being written and sung by
> the same person. One of my favorite artists is Linda Ronstadt, who
> never wrote a song.

Bill doesn't seem to want to answer these questions, but let's ask him anyway.

Bill, does and artist get extra credit if he wrote the song, or get a deduction if he didn't write the song?

Does Chuck get extra credit for the records he made of songs he wrote himself, and does he get a huge deduction for claiming that he wrote a song that he didn't write, like "My Ding-A-Ling?"

Same with Little Richard. Does that get a deduction for Richard claiming he wrote it when he didn't actually write it?

> Bill doesn't seem to want to answer these questions, but let's ask him anyway.
>
> Bill, does an artist get extra credit if he wrote the song, or get a deduction if he didn't write the song?
>
> Does Chuck get extra credit for the records he made of songs he wrote himself, and does he get a huge deduction for claiming that he wrote a song that he didn't write, like "My Ding-A-Ling?"
>
> Same with Little Richard. Does that get a deduction for Richard claiming he wrote it when he didn't actually write it?

I don't know why I should answer these, because they are diversions from the actual debate, which is does a record receive a deduction for being derivative.

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:54:02 AM UTC-4, bb...@optonline.net wrote:
> > Bill doesn't seem to want to answer these questions, but let's ask him anyway.
> >
> > Bill, does an artist get extra credit if he wrote the song, or get a deduction if he didn't write the song?
> >
> > Does Chuck get extra credit for the records he made of songs he wrote himself, and does he get a huge deduction for claiming that he wrote a song that he didn't write, like "My Ding-A-Ling?"
> >
> > Same with Little Richard. Does that get a deduction for Richard claiming he wrote it when he didn't actually write it?
> I don't know why I should answer these, because they are diversions from the actual debate, which is does a record receive a deduction for being derivative.

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 5:54:02 AM UTC-4, bb...@optonline.net wrote:
> > Bill doesn't seem to want to answer these questions, but let's ask him anyway.
> >
> > Bill, does an artist get extra credit if he wrote the song, or get a deduction if he didn't write the song?
> >
> > Does Chuck get extra credit for the records he made of songs he wrote himself, and does he get a huge deduction for claiming that he wrote a song that he didn't write, like "My Ding-A-Ling?"
> >
> > Same with Little Richard. Does that get a deduction for Richard claiming he wrote it when he didn't actually write it?
> I don't know why I should answer these, because they are diversions from the actual debate, which is does a record receive a deduction for being derivative.

You can still answer any question. Why WOULDN'T you answer, to help me get a better idea of your overall position on these matters. What do you gain by not answering?

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 8:59:38 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:

> You can still answer any question. Why WOULDN'T you answer, to help me get a better idea of your overall position on these matters. What do you gain by not answering?

To keep the focus on the issue at hand, as I said above.

On 9/18/2022 4:10 PM, Bruce wrote:

>
> Diane, do you rate "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" lower now that you found out that Hank did not write the song himself, but instead bought the song outright from the young man who actually wrote it, Paul Gilley. Does it get lowered even more because of this quote from Hank.. "Awful pretty song, I think one of the prettiest things that I ever had the pleasure of comin' up with."
>

-------------
Did Paul Gilley write the *song*, or just the *lyrics*? Because if it
was the latter, then HW did "come up with" the hauntingly beautiful melody.

On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-4, DianeE wrote:
> On 9/18/2022 4:10 PM, Bruce wrote:
>
> >
> > Diane, do you rate "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" lower now that you found out that Hank did not write the song himself, but instead bought the song outright from the young man who actually wrote it, Paul Gilley. Does it get lowered even more because of this quote from Hank.. "Awful pretty song, I think one of the prettiest things that I ever had the pleasure of comin' up with."
> >
> -------------
> Did Paul Gilley write the *song*, or just the *lyrics*? Because if it
> was the latter, then HW did "come up with" the hauntingly beautiful melody.

And whichever came first between "Move Ut On Over" and "Mind Your Own Business" does Not get deducted points for duplicitous duplication, baby!!

Nice try, Hank!!