New on my blog:

https://garymcgath.com/wp/china-worldcon-tickets/

Normally, when a fan-run convention wants to name a mascot, the concom
tosses ideas around and picks one. (I remain disappointed that the 2004
Boston Worldcon called its Uncle Sam-like mascot "Uncle Lensman" rather
than "Uncle Samms.")

The Chengdu Worldcon is doing things a bit differently. Whoever provides
the name for their mascot gets "three physical admissions, attending the
Worldcon opening ceremony as a guest, a walk-in reservation channel for
the Hugo Awards ceremony and the Worldcon closing ceremony, a mascot
gift package, work to be introduced and preserved in prominent sections
of the Worldcon publications, a commemorative certificate and a letter
of gratitude presented by the Committee, a free Pidu-trip, and free
pickup service from airports to the venue."

It's also been reported that the convention is selling "tickets" (not
memberships) in China through a Ticketmaster-like service.

This is a strange way to run an allegedly fan-run, nonprofit convention.
(I don't know what a Pidu-trip is.)

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

On 9/11/23 10:54 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:

> Well, I believe one reason conventions in the US sell memberships rather
> than tickets is that tickets are subject to sales tax in most areas.

It's not just that. The word "membership" stresses that everyone is a
participant, even if it's just talking to pros in the halls. Selling
admissions through a third-party agency (and letting it keep a
substantial cut) decreases the sense that members are part of the same
community.

It seems unlikely that tax authorities will forego taxes just because of
a change in terminology.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

In article <udncis$13tih$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath)
wrote:

>
> It seems unlikely that tax authorities will forego taxes just because
> of a change in terminology.

Well, in the UK, the Science Fiction Foundation (of which I'm the
treasurer) sells memberships and you get a subscription to our journal
with your membership. As we are a registered charity, that means that
for members who pay income tax, we can claim back their income tax using
the UK Gift Aid scheme.

Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/23 10:54 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
>
>> Well, I believe one reason conventions in the US sell memberships rather
>> than tickets is that tickets are subject to sales tax in most areas.
>
>It's not just that. The word "membership" stresses that everyone is a
>participant, even if it's just talking to pros in the halls. Selling
>admissions through a third-party agency (and letting it keep a
>substantial cut) decreases the sense that members are part of the same
>community.

And this is something that is lost in the translation to Chinese, I believe.

But we also have the issue that, although fans initially made the Worldcon
bid and started the Chinese Worldcon organization, they have been pushed aside
by municipal government which has taken the event over for their own
purposes. This is how these things go in China, and it's clearly going to
provide a lot of good things for the Worldcon as well as a lot of bad things
too. You are seeing one of the bad ones, and there will be more. Note
how supporting memberships are now described, for instance.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:25:59 AM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
> New on my blog:
>
> https://garymcgath.com/wp/china-worldcon-tickets/
>
> Normally, when a fan-run convention wants to name a mascot, the concom
> tosses ideas around and picks one. (I remain disappointed that the 2004
> Boston Worldcon called its Uncle Sam-like mascot "Uncle Lensman" rather
> than "Uncle Samms.")
>
> The Chengdu Worldcon is doing things a bit differently. Whoever provides
> the name for their mascot gets "three physical admissions, attending the
> Worldcon opening ceremony as a guest, a walk-in reservation channel for
> the Hugo Awards ceremony and the Worldcon closing ceremony, a mascot
> gift package, work to be introduced and preserved in prominent sections
> of the Worldcon publications, a commemorative certificate and a letter
> of gratitude presented by the Committee, a free Pidu-trip, and free
> pickup service from airports to the venue."
>
> It's also been reported that the convention is selling "tickets" (not
> memberships) in China through a Ticketmaster-like service.
>
> This is a strange way to run an allegedly fan-run, nonprofit convention.
> (I don't know what a Pidu-trip is.)
>
> --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidu_District

--
Kevin R

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 6:33:20 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
> >On 9/11/23 10:54 AM, ele...@optonline.net wrote:
> >
> >> Well, I believe one reason conventions in the US sell memberships rather
> >> than tickets is that tickets are subject to sales tax in most areas.
> >
> >It's not just that. The word "membership" stresses that everyone is a
> >participant, even if it's just talking to pros in the halls. Selling
> >admissions through a third-party agency (and letting it keep a
> >substantial cut) decreases the sense that members are part of the same
> >community.
> And this is something that is lost in the translation to Chinese, I believe.
>
> But we also have the issue that, although fans initially made the Worldcon
> bid and started the Chinese Worldcon organization, they have been pushed aside
> by municipal government which has taken the event over for their own
> purposes. This is how these things go in China, and it's clearly going to
> provide a lot of good things for the Worldcon as well as a lot of bad things
> too. You are seeing one of the bad ones, and there will be more. Note
> how supporting memberships are now described, for instance.

This is going to be one unusual WorldCon.

pt

On 9/19/23 10:33 AM, Peter Trei wrote:

> This is going to be one unusual WorldCon.

One "unusual" feature is that although Lukianenko is still listed at a
Guest of Honor, his name is missing from recent press releases that
mention the other guests.

This is one of the few things about the con that I won't complain about,
but it will be interesting to see how it plays out at the con. I've read
that he's making other appearances in China close to the time of the
con, so I expect he'll be present.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

The latest is that Chengdu has stopped selling full convention "tickets"
but will start selling one-day tickets. There wasn't any advance warning
of the cutoff.

https://file770.com/pixel-scroll-9-20-23-all-that-is-scrolled-does-not-pixel/comment-page-1/#comment-1589888

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

In article <ueh7cv$3g1i8$1@dont-email.me>,
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>The latest is that Chengdu has stopped selling full convention "tickets"
>but will start selling one-day tickets. There wasn't any advance warning
>of the cutoff.

And the people who have already purchased such things?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 9/21/23 8:40 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <ueh7cv$3g1i8$1@dont-email.me>,
> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
>> The latest is that Chengdu has stopped selling full convention "tickets"
>> but will start selling one-day tickets. There wasn't any advance warning
>> of the cutoff.
>
> And the people who have already purchased such things?

I assume they're still valid.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

In article <uekaq3$a2cb$1@dont-email.me>, garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath)
wrote:
> On 9/21/23 8:40 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > And the people who have already purchased such things?
> I assume they're still valid.

If they aren't, that will /definitely/ sink any future PRC Worldcon bid
that's voted on outside the PRC.

--
John Dallman
"This isn't a supernova problem. It's a pointy-haired boss problem."

John Dallman <jgd@cix.co.uk> wrote:
> garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> And the people who have already purchased such things?

>> I assume they're still valid.

> If they aren't, that will /definitely/ sink any future PRC Worldcon
> bid that's voted on outside the PRC.

Every Worldcon is voted on everywhere that its supporting members are.

There were so many votes cast from China, that even if everyone who
voted who was at the (DC) Worldcon or who wasn't Chinese had voted
against Chengdu, it still would have won.

Can anyone think of any rules change that would prevent this?
Obviously, requiring voters to be onsite at the voting Worldcon would.
But that's not fair to people who want to attend an upcoming Worldcon
but can't make it to the then-current one. Also, it would mean that
if a Worldcon is ever held in a place most fans can't or won't go, it
could be permanently kept in nasty places.

One possibility would be to separately count the votes of onsite
voters and of all voting fans, onsite and remote. If the two votes
result in the same site winning, then that site wins. If the two
votes are for different sites, then all attending members of the past
ten Worldcons get to vote between the two winning sites.

This is analogous to the fact that if no US presidential candidate
gets the majority of the electoral-college votes, that the House of
Representatives then decides who will be president. Except that the
House isn't restricted to selecting among the two leading candidates,
but can choose anyone whatsoever (so long as they're eligible, i.e.
are a US citizen, were born in the US, are over 35, and have lived in
the US for 14 years).
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

In article <uen5br$l52$1@reader2.panix.com>,
"Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

> John Dallman <jgd@cix.co.uk> wrote:
> > garym@mcgath.com (Gary McGath) wrote:
> >> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >>> And the people who have already purchased such things?
>
> >> I assume they're still valid.
>
> > If they aren't, that will /definitely/ sink any future PRC Worldcon
> > bid that's voted on outside the PRC.
>
> Every Worldcon is voted on everywhere that its supporting members are.
>
> There were so many votes cast from China, that even if everyone who
> voted who was at the (DC) Worldcon or who wasn't Chinese had voted
> against Chengdu, it still would have won.
>
> Can anyone think of any rules change that would prevent this?

Banning bids from PRC. Or less obvious (though not quite as certain),
only accepting bids from fan organizations who have demonstrated they
can hold conventions and have at least preliminary agreements with large
enough hotels.

<snip>

> One possibility would be to separately count the votes of onsite
> voters and of all voting fans, onsite and remote. If the two votes
> result in the same site winning, then that site wins. If the two
> votes are for different sites, then all attending members of the past
> ten Worldcons get to vote between the two winning sites.
>
> This is analogous to the fact that if no US presidential candidate
> gets the majority of the electoral-college votes, that the House of
> Representatives then decides who will be president. Except that the
> House isn't restricted to selecting among the two leading candidates,
> but can choose anyone whatsoever (so long as they're eligible, i.e.
> are a US citizen, were born in the US, are over 35, and have lived in
> the US for 14 years).

Ahem. That is NOT how the House of Representatives conducts a
Presidential Election. They have to choose one of the 3 candidates with
the most votes in the Electoral College, see the 12 Amendment.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>Banning bids from PRC. Or less obvious (though not quite as certain),
>only accepting bids from fan organizations who have demonstrated they
>can hold conventions and have at least preliminary agreements with large
>enough hotels.

The Chinese fan organization will by then have demonstrated that they can
hold conventions, however.

I suspect that this year's worldcon will be very formal, very organized,
very segregated between fans and pros, and very successful financially.
Remember this event is run by event planning experts, with a lot of political
pull (and consequently with a lot of external funding available). You and
I would surely prefer that it be run by fans, but even so it is being run by
people who will make a success out of it even if not the kind of success we
might like.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 9/24/23 8:58 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>
>> Banning bids from PRC. Or less obvious (though not quite as certain),
>> only accepting bids from fan organizations who have demonstrated they
>> can hold conventions and have at least preliminary agreements with large
>> enough hotels.
>
> The Chinese fan organization will by then have demonstrated that they can
> hold conventions, however.
>
> I suspect that this year's worldcon will be very formal, very organized,
> very segregated between fans and pros, and very successful financially.
> Remember this event is run by event planning experts, with a lot of political
> pull (and consequently with a lot of external funding available). You and
> I would surely prefer that it be run by fans, but even so it is being run by
> people who will make a success out of it even if not the kind of success we
> might like.

I regard the Worldcon being a fan-run con as something more than a
"preference." One that's been more or less openly taken over by the
local government and its business cronies is a failed Worldcon, even if
it pulls in a million yuan. (Quickly double-checking that that's more
than pocket change; yes, it's equivalent to a couple of hundred thousand
dollars.)

But the real test of the con is yet to come. I don't think they've
posted a code of conduct yet. The interesting questions will be not only
what speech it prohibits, but how it will be enforced.

In an American con, the worst that can happen is that you'll be
metaphorically dragged out of an event, expelled from the con, and
subjected to public humiliation. In China, you could be physically
dragged out and imprisoned or expelled from the country.

Even if that doesn't happen, most foreigners attending the con know that
safety lies in keeping their mouths shut. Whether attendees
"voluntarily" keep quiet or need reminding, the outcome will be bad.

If the success of Worldcons is now measured by the money they pull in,
then I'm done with them.

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
> Ahem. That is NOT how the House of Representatives conducts a
> Presidential Election. They have to choose one of the 3 candidates
> with the most votes in the Electoral College, see the 12 Amendment.

Thanks for the correction.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

The latest is that the con missed the 30-day lead time requirement for
sending out the agenda for the WSFS business meeting.

https://file770.com/pixel-scroll-10-6-23-when-youre-dune-and-tribbled-and-need-a-gripping-hand/

--
Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com