50 Dyna-flow - Jack Cooley - C&G 102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZj-sImCRw

Don't Get Excited - Tucker Coles - Bullet 347
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isN3oDPM7kI

Big Fat Mama - King Perry - Excelsior 600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdgQYWR55_E

I Go For That - Billie McAllister - Tennessee 112
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJQMTGeC6_I

Lima Beans - Eddy Ware - Chess 1461
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIkOIlu5f7w

Chili-Dogs - Dusty Brooks & Four Tunes - Bullet 346
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qio3PtWfo

My Kind Of Rockin' - Rene Hall Trio - Decca 48217
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfykW_Q9Nk

Preachin' - Julian Dash - Sittin In With 600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBHFdvaM54

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 22:08:45 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <SavoyBG@aol.com>
wrote:

>50 Dyna-flow - Jack Cooley - C&G 102
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZj-sImCRw
>
>Don't Get Excited - Tucker Coles - Bullet 347
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isN3oDPM7kI
>
>Big Fat Mama - King Perry - Excelsior 600
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdgQYWR55_E
>
>I Go For That - Billie McAllister - Tennessee 112
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJQMTGeC6_I
>
>Lima Beans - Eddy Ware - Chess 1461
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIkOIlu5f7w
>
>Chili-Dogs - Dusty Brooks & Four Tunes - Bullet 346
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qio3PtWfo
>
>My Kind Of Rockin' - Rene Hall Trio - Decca 48217
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfykW_Q9Nk
>
>Preachin' - Julian Dash - Sittin In With 600
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBHFdvaM54

These are all entertaining records (thank you Bruce) that indeed fall
into the category of Black Rock And Roll from the post-war period up
to the early 50s.

But, few White teenagers in 1956 would consider these records to be
Rock And Roll - they are, to be polite, Black Rhythm And Blues records
from a past era.

I am aware that Bruce and his pro-Black ethnic minority cohorts have a
problem with this overriding Germanic White 50s definition of Rock And
Roll :-)

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:21:06 AM UTC-4, RWC wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 22:08:45 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >50 Dyna-flow - Jack Cooley - C&G 102
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZj-sImCRw
> >
> >Don't Get Excited - Tucker Coles - Bullet 347
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isN3oDPM7kI
> >
> >Big Fat Mama - King Perry - Excelsior 600
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdgQYWR55_E
> >
> >I Go For That - Billie McAllister - Tennessee 112
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJQMTGeC6_I
> >
> >Lima Beans - Eddy Ware - Chess 1461
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIkOIlu5f7w
> >
> >Chili-Dogs - Dusty Brooks & Four Tunes - Bullet 346
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qio3PtWfo
> >
> >My Kind Of Rockin' - Rene Hall Trio - Decca 48217
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfykW_Q9Nk
> >
> >Preachin' - Julian Dash - Sittin In With 600
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBHFdvaM54
> These are all entertaining records (thank you Bruce) that indeed fall
> into the category of Black Rock And Roll from the post-war period up
> to the early 50s.
>
> But, few White teenagers in 1956 would consider these records to be
> Rock And Roll -

But they would consider the Crew Cuts and Pat Boone and "Rock And Roll Waltz" to be rock and roll" so clearly they had their heads up their lily white asses.

On Sep 27, 2022 at 10:10:41 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:21:06 AM UTC-4, RWC wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 22:08:45 -0700 (PDT), Bruce <Sav...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 50 Dyna-flow - Jack Cooley - C&G 102
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZj-sImCRw
>>>
>>> Don't Get Excited - Tucker Coles - Bullet 347
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isN3oDPM7kI
>>>
>>> Big Fat Mama - King Perry - Excelsior 600
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdgQYWR55_E
>>>
>>> I Go For That - Billie McAllister - Tennessee 112
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJQMTGeC6_I
>>>
>>> Lima Beans - Eddy Ware - Chess 1461
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIkOIlu5f7w
>>>
>>> Chili-Dogs - Dusty Brooks & Four Tunes - Bullet 346
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1qio3PtWfo
>>>
>>> My Kind Of Rockin' - Rene Hall Trio - Decca 48217
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfykW_Q9Nk
>>>
>>> Preachin' - Julian Dash - Sittin In With 600
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBHFdvaM54
>> These are all entertaining records (thank you Bruce) that indeed fall
>> into the category of Black Rock And Roll from the post-war period up
>> to the early 50s.
>>
>> But, few White teenagers in 1956 would consider these records to be
>> Rock And Roll -
>
> But they would consider the Crew Cuts and Pat Boone and "Rock And Roll Waltz"
> to be rock and roll" so clearly they had their heads up their lily white
> asses.

Nope. Just about everyone I knew considered them pop versions of rock and
roll. Geoff's closer to the truth here. Of course, I can't speak for kids in
the small-town midwest, where r'n'r didn't actually arrive until Elvis' first
RCA releases, but I'm sure a lot of them could tune in Chicago stations to
find out what was happening.,

--md

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On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:03:28 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

Of course, I can't speak for kids in > the small-town midwest, where r'n'r didn't
actually arrive until Elvis' first RCA releases,

So, "Rock Around The Clock" and "Shake, Rattle And Roll" and "Maybellene" never made it in the midwest?

Samp missed this in 1949.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUeK6-9VxtM

On Sep 28, 2022 at 9:24:45 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:03:28 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>
> Of course, I can't speak for kids in >the small-town midwest, where r'n'r
> didn't
> actually arrive until Elvis' first RCA releases,
>
> So, "Rock Around The Clock" and "Shake, Rattle And Roll" and "Maybellene"
> never made it in the midwest?

I wasn't there, but over the years I've talked to some people who were, and I
suspect from what they told me that "RATC" was played, though it became
well-known only after "Blackboard Jungle" was released, and that only the
Haley version of SR&R received local radio play. I can't recall "Maybelline"
ever being sung on "Your Hit Parade" and that tv horror was a major source for
what a lot of people considered a hit in the mid-50s, so I doubt it was
getting much radio play in small-town Midwest.

--md

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On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:08:51 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> On Sep 28, 2022 at 9:24:45 AM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:03:28 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> >
> > Of course, I can't speak for kids in >the small-town midwest, where r'n'r
> > didn't
> > actually arrive until Elvis' first RCA releases,
> >
> > So, "Rock Around The Clock" and "Shake, Rattle And Roll" and "Maybellene"
> > never made it in the midwest?
> I wasn't there, but over the years I've talked to some people who were, and I
> suspect from what they told me that "RATC" was played, though it became
> well-known only after "Blackboard Jungle" was released,

Which was long before Presley's first RCA record. Even "See You Later Alligator" was before Presley's first RCA record, as were "Maybellene" and Bo Diddley" and many others that would have been heard in the midwest. Fucking Chicago is in the midwest, and Milwaukee, and Detroit. "Maybellene" was #5 on the Billboard Pop chart, and there were no covers that were popular. "Sh-Boom" by the Chords reached #5 on Billboard's Pop chart in the summer of 1954, a year and a half before Presley's first RCA release. "Gee" was a pop chart hit in March of 1954.

"Shake, Rattle and Roll" by Haley was #7 Pop in a 27 week run on the Pop chart starting in August 1954. The midwest heard it for sure with a 27 week run on a chart that varied from 15 spots to 30 spots in those days.

On Sep 29, 2022 at 12:38:16 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:08:51 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>> On Sep 28, 2022 at 9:24:45 AM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:03:28 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course, I can't speak for kids in >the small-town midwest, where r'n'r
>>> didn't
>>> actually arrive until Elvis' first RCA releases,
>>>
>>> So, "Rock Around The Clock" and "Shake, Rattle And Roll" and "Maybellene"
>>> never made it in the midwest?
>> I wasn't there, but over the years I've talked to some people who were, and I
>> suspect from what they told me that "RATC" was played, though it became
>> well-known only after "Blackboard Jungle" was released,
>
> Which was long before Presley's first RCA record. Even "See You Later
> Alligator" was before Presley's first RCA record, as were "Maybellene" and Bo
> Diddley" and many others that would have been heard in the midwest. Fucking
> Chicago is in the midwest, and Milwaukee, and Detroit. "Maybellene" was #5 on
> the Billboard Pop chart, and there were no covers that were popular. "Sh-Boom"
> by the Chords reached #5 on Billboard's Pop chart in the summer of 1954, a
> year and a half before Presley's first RCA release. "Gee" was a pop chart hit
> in March of 1954.
>
> "Shake, Rattle and Roll" by Haley was #7 Pop in a 27 week run on the Pop chart
> starting in August 1954. The midwest heard it for sure with a 27 week run on a
> chart that varied from 15 spots to 30 spots in those days.

I already said that these things could be heard on Chicago stations, and I
specified SMALL TOWN midwest radio stations as being slow to jump on the r'n'r
bandwagon. As late as 1966, when I moved to the midwest, you had to listen to
WLS from Chicago if you wanted to hear James Brown or other soul performers on
the radio.

--md

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On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 9:46:09 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:

> I already said that these things could be heard on Chicago stations, and I
> specified SMALL TOWN midwest radio stations as being slow to jump on the r'n'r
> bandwagon. As late as 1966, when I moved to the midwest, you had to listen to
> WLS from Chicago if you wanted to hear James Brown or other soul performers on
> the radio.

The Black/White problem during civil rights days is entirely different from what was going on in 1954-1955.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 13:46:02 +0000, Mark D. <mdintenfass@xxnew.rr.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 29, 2022 at 12:38:16 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 11:08:51 PM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>> On Sep 28, 2022 at 9:24:45 AM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:03:28 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Of course, I can't speak for kids in >the small-town midwest, where r'n'r
>>>> didn't
>>>> actually arrive until Elvis' first RCA releases,
>>>>
>>>> So, "Rock Around The Clock" and "Shake, Rattle And Roll" and "Maybellene"
>>>> never made it in the midwest?
>>> I wasn't there, but over the years I've talked to some people who were, and I
>>> suspect from what they told me that "RATC" was played, though it became
>>> well-known only after "Blackboard Jungle" was released,
>>
>> Which was long before Presley's first RCA record. Even "See You Later
>> Alligator" was before Presley's first RCA record, as were "Maybellene" and Bo
>> Diddley" and many others that would have been heard in the midwest. Fucking
>> Chicago is in the midwest, and Milwaukee, and Detroit. "Maybellene" was #5 on
>> the Billboard Pop chart, and there were no covers that were popular. "Sh-Boom"
>> by the Chords reached #5 on Billboard's Pop chart in the summer of 1954, a
>> year and a half before Presley's first RCA release. "Gee" was a pop chart hit
>> in March of 1954.
>>
>> "Shake, Rattle and Roll" by Haley was #7 Pop in a 27 week run on the Pop chart
>> starting in August 1954. The midwest heard it for sure with a 27 week run on a
>> chart that varied from 15 spots to 30 spots in those days.
>
>I already said that these things could be heard on Chicago stations, and I
>specified SMALL TOWN midwest radio stations as being slow to jump on the r'n'r
>bandwagon. As late as 1966, when I moved to the midwest, you had to listen to
>WLS from Chicago if you wanted to hear James Brown or other soul performers on
>the radio.
>
>
>
>--md

I lived in Fairborn, a small town very close to the west side of
Dayton, Ohio. I didn't get hip to a radio station WING in Dayton
untill 1955. A Dj named Gene Barry played R&B records that weren't
necessarily on the usual playlist of the station on his show at night.
I first heard many R&B records on his show. James Brown was commonly
played. Also, I could hear WLAC late at night when I was driving home
from wherever. Although I admit I wasn't aware of Howlin' Wolf at that
time, I was aware of Muddy Waters. I was aware of "Maybellene,"
"Shake, Rattle and Roll" and "Sh-Boom." I was in my first band in 1958
and we were playing James Brown tunes by the early '60s right up to
'66 just before I left the state for good in 1967. King Records was
60 miles to the south. My band recorded in their studio multiple times
starting in 1959.

On Sep 29, 2022 at 9:09:22 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 9:46:09 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>
>> I already said that these things could be heard on Chicago stations, and I
>> specified SMALL TOWN midwest radio stations as being slow to jump on the r'n'r
>> bandwagon. As late as 1966, when I moved to the midwest, you had to listen to
>> WLS from Chicago if you wanted to hear James Brown or other soul performers on
>> the radio.
>
> The Black/White problem during civil rights days is entirely different from
> what was going on in 1954-1955.

One of the sillier things you've ever said.

--md

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On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 10:43:03 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> On Sep 29, 2022 at 9:09:22 AM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 9:46:09 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
> >
> >> I already said that these things could be heard on Chicago stations, and I
> >> specified SMALL TOWN midwest radio stations as being slow to jump on the r'n'r
> >> bandwagon. As late as 1966, when I moved to the midwest, you had to listen to
> >> WLS from Chicago if you wanted to hear James Brown or other soul performers on
> >> the radio.

Ironically the guy who ran WLS was anti-black music in the 1967-1969 era and famously said "Aretha Franklin will never be number one on my station." When "Respect" was number one nationally it was #10 on WLS, with only 6 black records in the top 40, and most of those in the thirties.

http://www.oldiesloon.com/il/wls060967.htm

> > The Black/White problem during civil rights days is entirely different from
> > what was going on in 1954-1955.
> One of the sillier things you've ever said.

See Jim's post above. He was in a small midwestern town and heard all of the things I mentioned before Elvis on RCA.

On Sep 29, 2022 at 10:00:38 AM CDT, "Bruce" <SavoyBG@aol.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 10:43:03 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>> On Sep 29, 2022 at 9:09:22 AM CDT, "Bruce" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 9:46:09 AM UTC-4, Mark D. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I already said that these things could be heard on Chicago stations, and I
>>>> specified SMALL TOWN midwest radio stations as being slow to jump on the r'n'r
>>>> bandwagon. As late as 1966, when I moved to the midwest, you had to listen to
>>>> WLS from Chicago if you wanted to hear James Brown or other soul performers on
>>>> the radio.
>
> Ironically the guy who ran WLS was anti-black music in the 1967-1969 era and
> famously said "Aretha Franklin will never be number one on my station." When
> "Respect" was number one nationally it was #10 on WLS, with only 6 black
> records in the top 40, and most of those in the thirties.
>
> http://www.oldiesloon.com/il/wls060967.htm
>
>
>>> The Black/White problem during civil rights days is entirely different from
>>> what was going on in 1954-1955.
>> One of the sillier things you've ever said.
>
> See Jim's post above. He was in a small midwestern town and heard all of the
> things I mentioned before Elvis on RCA.

He was also in a professional band before the decade ended. Not your typical
fan.

--md

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