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arts / rec.music.beatles / Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

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Subject: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
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by: Bruce - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 00:52 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
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by: Norbert K - Thu, 14 Apr 2022 14:46 UTC

On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE

He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.

Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 01:30 UTC

On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
>
> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
>
> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.

Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.

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by: geoff - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 11:43 UTC

On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
>>
>> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
>>
>> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
>
> Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.

Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.

geoff

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: norbertk...@gmail.com (Norbert K)
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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 12:12 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
> >>
> >> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
> >>
> >> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
> >
> > Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
> Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
>
> geoff

Every Zappa fan knows that Frank was also enamored with Edgar Varese from a very young age.

Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 13:28 UTC

> Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.

That explains why his records all sucked. He should have stayed with his early. Here's the only good song he ever wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0odI8W2U4

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: norbertk...@gmail.com (Norbert K)
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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:01 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
> > >>
> > >> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
> > >>
> > >> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
> > >
> > > Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
>
> > Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
> That explains why his records all sucked.

You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?

He should have stayed with his early. Here's the only good song he ever wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0odI8W2U4

I'm not into that style, but that seems like an okay version of it. I only know the town of El Monte from James Ellroy's biography. His memories of it aren't so good.

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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 16:25 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > > On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
> > > >>
> > > >> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
> > > >>
> > > >> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
> > > >
> > > > Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
> >
> > > Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
> > That explains why his records all sucked.
> You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?

They always sucked. That's why he never made it into the mainstream. I think he was smart enough to know that he could never make black styled records well so he went in a different direction. I really liked the guy when he was a talk show guest or something, but his records sucked shit.

Frank once named this as his favorite record of all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbPUsm_DONs

Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:09 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > > > On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
> > > > >>
> > > > >> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
> > >
> > > > Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
> > > That explains why his records all sucked.
> > You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?
> They always sucked. That's why he never made it into the mainstream. I think he was smart enough to know that he could never make black styled records well so he went in a different direction. I really liked the guy when he was a talk show guest or something, but his records sucked shit.

Does it sound to you as if he Zappa was striving for the mainstream? Well, okay, from a musical point of view, "Why Does It Hurt When I Pee?" sounds like it belongs on Classic Rock radio. The only problem is that it's about venereal disease. He knew perfectly well it wasn't going to top the charts.

Zappa had his niche (or mutliple niches) and was content with that.

I was into his TV appearances, too. "Saturday Night Live" was great. I could see that there was something special going on there; he was using his music to make fun of stupid social trends.

> Frank once named this as his favorite record of all time:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbPUsm_DONs

Alright. That's one of the styles he was into.

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From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:34 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 2:09:38 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > > > > On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
> > > >
> > > > > Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
> > > > That explains why his records all sucked.
> > > You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?
> > They always sucked. That's why he never made it into the mainstream. I think he was smart enough to know that he could never make black styled records well so he went in a different direction. I really liked the guy when he was a talk show guest or something, but his records sucked shit.

> Does it sound to you as if he Zappa was striving for the mainstream?

It sounds to me like he knew he didn't have what it took to make big hit records so he hoped to find a niche among other weirdos and outcasts out there.

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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:38 UTC

Zappa auditioned some friends of mine in the 1970s, the Sparrows Quartette. He totally did not get them and tried to have them go more mainstream and starting doing popular songs like "Under The Boardwalk" and "My Girl." They told him to fuck off. These are 4 white Jews and Italians singing in a hardcore black vocal group style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-mItJxedvU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM1EJ8pUBkk

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: norbertk...@gmail.com (Norbert K)
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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:24 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 2:34:38 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 2:09:38 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> > > > > > On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
> > > > > That explains why his records all sucked.
> > > > You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?
> > > They always sucked. That's why he never made it into the mainstream. I think he was smart enough to know that he could never make black styled records well so he went in a different direction. I really liked the guy when he was a talk show guest or something, but his records sucked shit.
>
> > Does it sound to you as if he Zappa was striving for the mainstream?
> It sounds to me like he knew he didn't have what it took to make big hit records so he hoped to find a niche among other weirdos and outcasts out there.

From what, exactly do you derive this supposed insight? You wouldn't be projecting or anything.

Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?

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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 19:26 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 2:38:11 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> Zappa auditioned some friends of mine in the 1970s, the Sparrows Quartette. He totally did not get them and tried to have them go more mainstream and starting doing popular songs like "Under The Boardwalk" and "My Girl." They told him to fuck off. These are 4 white Jews and Italians singing in a hardcore black vocal group style.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-mItJxedvU
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM1EJ8pUBkk

They're good singers. Obviously Zappa wasn't the right person for them to turn to.

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:13 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:24:22 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>
> Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?

No, before he started recording he knew that he was never gonna be a artist with big hit records that appealed to regular people, so he tried a sort of half novelty approach hoping that it would maybe appeal to some of the other misfits out there.

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: norbertk...@gmail.com (Norbert K)
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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 22:08 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 5:13:52 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:24:22 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> >
> > Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?
> No, before he started recording he knew that he was never gonna be a artist with big hit records that appealed to regular people,

You keep saying that. I wonder what it is based on.

I used to live among (although i had little in common with) a bunch of New Agers. One of them would pronounce that "Musicians all wish they were movie stars. But they don't have the looks, so they play instruments instead."

This New Agery was false and stupid. Obviously.

However, I read your posts claiming Zappa secretly craved mainstream attention, and...it seems oddly reminiscent.

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: Savo...@aol.com (Bruce)
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by: Bruce - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 22:15 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:08:24 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 5:13:52 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:24:22 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > >
> > > Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?
> > No, before he started recording he knew that he was never gonna be a artist with big hit records that appealed to regular people,
> You keep saying that. I wonder what it is based on.
>
> I used to live among (although i had little in common with) a bunch of New Agers. One of them would pronounce that "Musicians all wish they were movie stars. But they don't have the looks, so they play instruments instead."
>
>
> This New Agery was false and stupid. Obviously.
>
> However, I read your posts claiming Zappa secretly craved mainstream attention, and...it seems oddly reminiscent.

Don't be naïve. EVERY recording artist wants their records to be huge hits.

Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
From: norbertk...@gmail.com (Norbert K)
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by: Norbert K - Fri, 15 Apr 2022 22:30 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:15:37 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:08:24 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 5:13:52 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:24:22 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?
> > > No, before he started recording he knew that he was never gonna be a artist with big hit records that appealed to regular people,
> > You keep saying that. I wonder what it is based on.
> >
> > I used to live among (although i had little in common with) a bunch of New Agers. One of them would pronounce that "Musicians all wish they were movie stars. But they don't have the looks, so they play instruments instead.."
> >
> >
> > This New Agery was false and stupid. Obviously.
> >
> > However, I read your posts claiming Zappa secretly craved mainstream attention, and...it seems oddly reminiscent.
> Don't be naïve. EVERY recording artist wants their records to be huge hits.

Whose thoughts do you have direct access to? Which of Zappa's songs do you think he wished would be huge hits?

Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

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by: geoff - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 01:08 UTC

On 16/04/2022 1:28 am, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>> On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
>>>>
>>>> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
>>>>
>>>> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
>>>
>>> Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
>
>> Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
>
> That explains why his records all sucked. He should have stayed with his early. Here's the only good song he ever wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0odI8W2U4
>

You sure it isn't a parody ?

I like Bobby Brown Goes Down and Valley Girls best.

geoff

Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968

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by: geoff - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 01:10 UTC

On 16/04/2022 4:25 am, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>>> On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
>>>
>>>> Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
>>> That explains why his records all sucked.
>> You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?
>
> They always sucked. That's why he never made it into the mainstream. I think he was smart enough to know that he could never make black styled records well so he went in a different direction. I really liked the guy when he was a talk show guest or something, but his records sucked shit.
>
> Frank once named this as his favorite record of all time:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbPUsm_DONs
>
>
>
>

You don't realise that he was joking ?

geoff

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by: geoff - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 01:12 UTC

On 16/04/2022 6:34 am, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 2:09:38 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 12:25:35 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 11:01:30 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>>>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:28:26 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:43:25 AM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/04/2022 1:30 pm, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, April 13, 2022 at 8:52:16 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGOitikmRcE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He praises Elvin Jones's drumming -- and apparently is reminded of the famous jazz drummer Tony Williams. He adds that Shelly Manne played on his (Zappa's) Lumpy Gravy album.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lumpy Gravy is the Zappa album featuring "King Kong," which Zappa's band played at the Fillmore East when they were joined onstage by John and Yoko. When Lennon and Ono included their version of this performance with their Sometime In New York City album, they retitled "King Kong" as "Jamrag" and claimed writing credit for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did you notice that he said that he was mainly only interested in black music when he was young in the 1950s.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. He broadened his scope subsequently.
>>>>> That explains why his records all sucked.
>>>> You seemed impressed by the proposition that his influences were mostly black. I point out that one of his influences was not black, and suddenly "all his records sucked"?
>>> They always sucked. That's why he never made it into the mainstream. I think he was smart enough to know that he could never make black styled records well so he went in a different direction. I really liked the guy when he was a talk show guest or something, but his records sucked shit.
>
>> Does it sound to you as if he Zappa was striving for the mainstream?
>
> It sounds to me like he knew he didn't have what it took to make big hit records so he hoped to find a niche among other weirdos and outcasts out there.

Or maybe he didn't want to make bland big hit records that all sounded
the same.

geoff

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by: geoff - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 01:14 UTC

On 16/04/2022 6:38 am, Bruce wrote:
> Zappa auditioned some friends of mine in the 1970s, the Sparrows Quartette. He totally did not get them and tried to have them go more mainstream and starting doing popular songs like "Under The Boardwalk" and "My Girl." They told him to fuck off. These are 4 white Jews and Italians singing in a hardcore black vocal group style.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-mItJxedvU
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM1EJ8pUBkk

I didn't realise that out of tune was a black vocal style.

geoff

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by: geoff - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 01:16 UTC

On 16/04/2022 9:13 am, Bruce wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:24:22 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
>>
>> Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?
>
> No, before he started recording he knew that he was never gonna be a artist with big hit records that appealed to regular people, so he tried a sort of half novelty approach hoping that it would maybe appeal to some of the other misfits out there.

Or maybe his music was a reaction to much of the bland shit out there
that seems to get loved by the masses ?

geoff

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Subject: Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968
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by: Bruce - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 02:56 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:30:07 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:15:37 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:08:24 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 5:13:52 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:24:22 PM UTC-4, Norbert K wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Zappa's first album was Freak Out! You've seen the cover -- and you must have heard it, since you say that all of his records sucked. Was this a failed attempt at entering the mainstream?
> > > > No, before he started recording he knew that he was never gonna be a artist with big hit records that appealed to regular people,
> > > You keep saying that. I wonder what it is based on.
> > >
> > > I used to live among (although i had little in common with) a bunch of New Agers. One of them would pronounce that "Musicians all wish they were movie stars. But they don't have the looks, so they play instruments instead."
> > >
> > >
> > > This New Agery was false and stupid. Obviously.
> > >
> > > However, I read your posts claiming Zappa secretly craved mainstream attention, and...it seems oddly reminiscent.
> > Don't be naïve. EVERY recording artist wants their records to be huge hits.
> Whose thoughts do you have direct access to? Which of Zappa's songs do you think he wished would be huge hits?

All of them.

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by: Bruce - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 02:58 UTC

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 9:09:00 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
> >
> > That explains why his records all sucked. He should have stayed with his early. Here's the only good song he ever wrote:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ0odI8W2U4
> >
> You sure it isn't a parody ?

Yes, I've heard him discuss writing it and what it meant to him. El Monte was some place he hung out at as a teenager and had great memories from listening to doo wops there with his buddies and girlfriends.

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by: Bruce - Sat, 16 Apr 2022 02:59 UTC

Subject	Author
Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Norbert K
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	geoff
Re: Frank Zappa Reviews the Singles of October 1968	Bruce