Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)

dk

On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 8:50:21 PM UTC-10, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
>
> dk

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/22657/tofu-turkey-ii/

On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-10, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 8:50:21 PM UTC-10, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
> >
> > dk
> https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/22657/tofu-turkey-ii/

https://inhabitat.com/6-vegan-vegetarian-and-raw-food-turkey-alternatives-for-thanksgiving/

"How did you prepare the turkey, darling?"

"I just told it straight - you're gonna die....."

On Wednesday, November 24, 2021 at 11:59:10 PM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> "How did you prepare the turkey, darling?"
>
> "I just told it straight - you're gonna die....."

https://www.google.com/search?q=thanksgiving+turkey+in+terror&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj3yICQprP0AhW8AjQIHSbxC5EQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=thanksgiving+turkey+in+terror&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCCMQ7wMQJzoGCAAQCBAeUNgKWK4dYIMhaABwAHgAgAGdAYgB9guSAQM3LjeYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=amSfYffrNryF0PEPpuKviAk&bih=526&biw=1093#imgrc=4HFtfzxM8xxDXM

On 11/25/2021 1:50 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
> Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
>
> dk
>

For those who think it's cruel to eat animals. You must realize that vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had they not been raised for human consumption. Would it better never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been slaughtered for my enjoyment? Who are you to say?

On 11/25/21 5:01 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/25/2021 1:50 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
>>
>> dk
>>
>
> For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that
> vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had
> they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better never to
> have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been
> slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?

Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't
really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion
that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.

FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the kitchen
counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning, and going
on the spit to be roasted.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

Bob Harper

On 11/25/2021 12:10 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 11/25/21 5:01 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 11/25/2021 1:50 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
>>>
>>> dk
>>>
>>
>> For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
>
> Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.
>

Someone is bound to say, that's just your opinion, Bob. Not me.

My daughter the psychologist says domesticated animals have been measured to have high levels of cortisol, which indicates stress. I think that just motivates them to be better food.

Happy Thanksgiving.

> FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the kitchen counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning, and going on the spit to be roasted.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
>
> Bob Harper

> >
> > Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't really matter.
> >
According to recent research octopus (I'm not going to use the plural) appear to have a highly developed brain, all the way into their various legs / arms.

So maybe all those animals are saying funny things about us... Happy thanksgiving!

On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 12:10:16 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:

> Since animals have no consciousness in the
> human sense, it doesn't really matter. They
> were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
> ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
> humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
> is nonsensical.

Of course they do. You have probably never lived
with cats -- did you?

Also note that you are effectively contradincting
yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
they should be treated humanely. What the heck
does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?

dk

On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 1:59:14 PM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
>
> According to recent research octopus (I'm not
> going to use the plural) appear to have a highly
> developed brain, all the way into their various
> legs / arms.

Far more developed than some politicians' brains.

> So maybe all those animals are saying funny
> things about us... Happy thanksgiving!

My cats seem grateful for all the tuna and for
the daily massage. They just nominated me
for the 2022 Meowbel Prize. They believe I
discovered canned tuna!

dk

On 11/25/2021 7:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 12:10:16 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>
>> Since animals have no consciousness in the
>> human sense, it doesn't really matter. They
>> were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
>> ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
>> humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
>> is nonsensical.
>
> Of course they do. You have probably never lived
> with cats -- did you?
>
> Also note that you are effectively contradincting
> yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
> they should be treated humanely. What the heck
> does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
>
> dk
>

Under Jewish law, animals have the right to not be abused; but this does not include the right not to be slaughtered and eaten.

On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 9:15:01 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Under Jewish law, animals have the right
> to not be abused; but this does not include
> the right not to be slaughtered and eaten.

Just as the sticker on many organic meat
foods says: "Humanely raised, mercilessly
butchered". There's "civilization" for you!

dk

On 11/25/21 9:26 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/25/2021 12:10 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
>> On 11/25/21 5:01 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> On 11/25/2021 1:50 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>> Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> dk
>>>>
>>>
>>> For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that
>>> vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all
>>> had they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better
>>> never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then
>>> been slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
>>
>> Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't
>> really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
>> ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion
>> that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.
>>
>
> Someone is bound to say, that's just your opinion, Bob.  Not me.
>
> My daughter the psychologist says domesticated animals have been
> measured to have high levels of cortisol, which indicates stress.    I
> think that just motivates them to be better food.

Actually, I believe that they taste better when levels of cortisol are
lower, which is the burden of Dr. Temple Grandin's pioneering work in
handling animals in ways that reduce stress.

She is a real genius who is also autistic. A fascinating person.

Bob Harper
>
> Happy Thanksgiving.
>
>> FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the
>> kitchen counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning,
>> and going on the spit to be roasted.
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
>>
>> Bob Harper
>

On 11/25/21 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 12:10:16 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>
>> Since animals have no consciousness in the
>> human sense, it doesn't really matter. They
>> were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
>> ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
>> humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
>> is nonsensical.
>
> Of course they do. You have probably never lived
> with cats -- did you?
>
> Also note that you are effectively contradincting
> yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
> they should be treated humanely. What the heck
> does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
>
> dk
>
The responsibility to treat them humanely is an obligation on us as
human beings. I trust you will understand the distinction.

Bob Harper

On 11/25/21 6:14 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 11/25/2021 7:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 12:10:16 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>>
>>> Since animals have no consciousness in the
>>> human sense, it doesn't  really matter. They
>>> were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
>>> ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
>>> humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
>>> is nonsensical.
>>
>> Of course they do. You have probably never lived
>> with cats -- did you?
>> Also note that you are effectively contradincting
>> yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
>> they should be treated humanely. What the heck
>> does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
>>
>> dk
>>
>
> Under Jewish law, animals have the right to not be abused; but this does
> not include the right not to be slaughtered and eaten.

Exactly.

Bob Harper

On 11/25/2021 11:09 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 11/25/21 9:26 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 11/25/2021 12:10 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
>>> On 11/25/21 5:01 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 11/25/2021 1:50 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>> Show mercy on turkeys -- eat tofu! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> dk
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those who think it's cruel to eat animals.  You must realize that vast majority of cows/turkeys, etc. would never have existed at all had they not been raised for human consumption.  Would it better never to have lived at all than to have lived a short life and then been slaughtered for my enjoyment?  Who are you to say?
>>>
>>> Since animals have no consciousness in the human sense, it doesn't really matter. They were put here for us; we have an obligation--to ourselves and out consciences--to treat them humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights' is nonsensical.
>>>
>>
>> Someone is bound to say, that's just your opinion, Bob.  Not me.
>>
>> My daughter the psychologist says domesticated animals have been measured to have high levels of cortisol, which indicates stress.    I think that just motivates them to be better food.
>
> Actually, I believe that they taste better when levels of cortisol are lower, which is the burden of Dr. Temple Grandin's pioneering work in handling animals in ways that reduce stress.
>
> She is a real genius who is also autistic. A fascinating person.
>

Loved the movie.

> Bob Harper
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving.
>>
>>> FWIW, our turkey, having been brined for 12 hours, is now on the kitchen counter drying in preparation for icing the breast, seasoning, and going on the spit to be roasted.
>>>
>>> Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
>>>
>>> Bob Harper
>>
>

On 11/25/2021 11:11 PM, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 11/25/21 4:26 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 12:10:16 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>>
>>> Since animals have no consciousness in the
>>> human sense, it doesn't  really matter. They
>>> were put here for us; we have an obligation--to
>>> ourselves and out consciences--to treat them
>>> humanely, but the notion that they have 'rights'
>>> is nonsensical.
>>
>> Of course they do. You have probably never lived
>> with cats -- did you?
>> Also note that you are effectively contradincting
>> yourseld by saying animals don't have rights yet
>> they should be treated humanely. What the heck
>> does "humanely" mean if not (some) "rights" ?!?
>>
>> dk
>>
> The responsibility to treat them humanely is an obligation on us as human beings. I trust you will understand the distinction.
>
> Bob Harper

Well, there's some kind of relationship between rights and obligations, but I don't feel like thinking about it right now.

On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 10:47:31 AM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Well, there's some kind of relationship
> between rights and obligations, but I
> don't feel like thinking about it right
> now.

People have duties and obligations.
Cats have rights and privileges.

dk

On Thursday, November 25, 2021 at 12:10:16 PM UTC-5, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> Since animals have no consciousness in
> the human sense, it doesn't really matter.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211126-why-insects-are-more-sensitive-than-they-seem

dk